On Saturday 27 January 2024 at 20:29:24 UTC, RJH wrote:
I'm due to have a new roof in the next month or so, and the roofer has told me
he can install some solar panels 'while he's up there'. I'd imagine there'd be
an installation cost, but it'd likely be considerably less than a heat pump >> installer has quoted (about £14,000 including a 6kW battery).
My question is - would it be worth me buying the 8 panels (about £1000
https://midsummerwholesale.co.uk/buy/longi-solar/longi-lr554hih-410) and
getting the connection sorted out later?
Part of my reason for asking is I'd much prefer a roofer installing the panels
than one of these heat pump companies - having witnessed the partial
destruction of a friend's roof.
Solar pv now makes sense if you can get it all done cheaply, and have a way to
use the power. Can you?
I'm due to have a new roof in the next month or so, and the roofer has
told me he can install some solar panels 'while he's up there'. I'd
imagine there'd be an installation cost, but it'd likely be considerably
less than a heat pump installer has quoted (about £14,000 including a 6kW battery).
My question is - would it be worth me buying the 8 panels (about £1000 https://midsummerwholesale.co.uk/buy/longi-solar/longi-lr554hih-410) and getting the connection sorted out later?
Part of my reason for asking is I'd much prefer a roofer installing the panels than one of these heat pump companies - having witnessed the
partial destruction of a friend's roof.
On 27 Jan 2024 at 20:48:34 GMT, Animal wrote:
On Saturday 27 January 2024 at 20:29:24 UTC, RJH wrote:
I'm due to have a new roof in the next month or so, and the roofer has told me
he can install some solar panels 'while he's up there'. I'd imagine there'd be
an installation cost, but it'd likely be considerably less than a heat pump >>> installer has quoted (about £14,000 including a 6kW battery).
My question is - would it be worth me buying the 8 panels (about £1000
https://midsummerwholesale.co.uk/buy/longi-solar/longi-lr554hih-410) and >>> getting the connection sorted out later?
Part of my reason for asking is I'd much prefer a roofer installing the panels
than one of these heat pump companies - having witnessed the partial
destruction of a friend's roof.
Solar pv now makes sense if you can get it all done cheaply, and have a way to
use the power. Can you?
Well, it might be reasonably cheap - I'm thinking <£5000 for 8 reasonably located panels and storage. Based very loosely on http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Solar_PV_example:_single_garage - but unless it's not obvious, I'm fairly clueless about the whole thing.
The financial return isn't a huge consideration if I can get it installed for that sort of figure.
I could certainly use the power (when less is available, of course) in the winter. But not so much in the summer. So I'd need to look into a FiT for a decent financial return. An electric car is on my horizon, but not for a while.
On 27 Jan 2024 at 20:48:34 GMT, Animal wrote:
On Saturday 27 January 2024 at 20:29:24 UTC, RJH wrote:
I'm due to have a new roof in the next month or so, and the roofer has told me
he can install some solar panels 'while he's up there'. I'd imagine there'd be
an installation cost, but it'd likely be considerably less than a heat pump >>> installer has quoted (about £14,000 including a 6kW battery).
My question is - would it be worth me buying the 8 panels (about £1000
https://midsummerwholesale.co.uk/buy/longi-solar/longi-lr554hih-410) and >>> getting the connection sorted out later?
Part of my reason for asking is I'd much prefer a roofer installing the panels
than one of these heat pump companies - having witnessed the partial
destruction of a friend's roof.
Solar pv now makes sense if you can get it all done cheaply, and have a way to
use the power. Can you?
Well, it might be reasonably cheap - I'm thinking <£5000 for 8 reasonably located panels and storage. Based very loosely on http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Solar_PV_example:_single_garage - but unless it's not obvious, I'm fairly clueless about the whole thing.
The financial return isn't a huge consideration if I can get it installed for that sort of figure.
I could certainly use the power (when less is available, of course) in the winter. But not so much in the summer. So I'd need to look into a FiT for a decent financial return. An electric car is on my horizon, but not for a while.
I could certainly use the power (when less is available, of course) in the winter. But not so much in the summer. So I'd need to look into a FiT for a decent financial return. An electric car is on my horizon, but not for a while.Bless!
I'm due to have a new roof in the next month or so, and the roofer has told me
he can install some solar panels 'while he's up there'. I'd imagine there'd be
an installation cost, but it'd likely be considerably less than a heat pump installer has quoted (about £14,000 including a 6kW battery).
My question is - would it be worth me buying the 8 panels (about £1000 https://midsummerwholesale.co.uk/buy/longi-solar/longi-lr554hih-410) and getting the connection sorted out later?
Part of my reason for asking is I'd much prefer a roofer installing the panels
than one of these heat pump companies - having witnessed the partial destruction of a friend's roof.
I'm due to have a new roof in the next month or so, and the roofer has
told me he can install some solar panels 'while he's up there'. I'd
imagine there'd be an installation cost, but it'd likely be considerably
less than a heat pump installer has quoted (about £14,000 including a
6kW battery).
My question is - would it be worth me buying the 8 panels (about £1000 https://midsummerwholesale.co.uk/buy/longi-solar/longi-lr554hih-410) and getting the connection sorted out later?
Part of my reason for asking is I'd much prefer a roofer installing the panels than one of these heat pump companies - having witnessed the
partial destruction of a friend's roof.
I'm due to have a new roof in the next month or so, and the roofer has told me
he can install some solar panels 'while he's up there'. I'd imagine there'd be
an installation cost, but it'd likely be considerably less than a heat pump installer has quoted (about £14,000 including a 6kW battery).
My question is - would it be worth me buying the 8 panels (about £1000 https://midsummerwholesale.co.uk/buy/longi-solar/longi-lr554hih-410) and getting the connection sorted out later?
Part of my reason for asking is I'd much prefer a roofer installing the panels
than one of these heat pump companies - having witnessed the partial destruction of a friend's roof.
I'm due to have a new roof in the next month or so, and the roofer has told me
he can install some solar panels 'while he's up there'. I'd imagine there'd be
an installation cost, but it'd likely be considerably less than a heat pump installer has quoted (about £14,000 including a 6kW battery).
My question is - would it be worth me buying the 8 panels (about £1000 https://midsummerwholesale.co.uk/buy/longi-solar/longi-lr554hih-410) and getting the connection sorted out later?
Part of my reason for asking is I'd much prefer a roofer installing the panels
than one of these heat pump companies - having witnessed the partial destruction of a friend's roof.
On 27/01/2024 21:31, RJH wrote:
On 27 Jan 2024 at 20:48:34 GMT, Animal wrote:
On Saturday 27 January 2024 at 20:29:24 UTC, RJH wrote:
I'm due to have a new roof in the next month or so, and the roofer has told me
he can install some solar panels 'while he's up there'. I'd imagine there'd be
an installation cost, but it'd likely be considerably less than a heat pump
installer has quoted (about £14,000 including a 6kW battery).
My question is - would it be worth me buying the 8 panels (about £1000 >>>> https://midsummerwholesale.co.uk/buy/longi-solar/longi-lr554hih-410) and >>>> getting the connection sorted out later?
Part of my reason for asking is I'd much prefer a roofer installing the panels
than one of these heat pump companies - having witnessed the partial
destruction of a friend's roof.
Solar pv now makes sense if you can get it all done cheaply, and have a way to
use the power. Can you?
Well, it might be reasonably cheap - I'm thinking <£5000 for 8 reasonably> >> located panels and storage. Based very loosely on
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Solar_PV_example:_single_garage - but
unless it's not obvious, I'm fairly clueless about the whole thing.
The financial return isn't a huge consideration if I can get it installed for
that sort of figure.
I could certainly use the power (when less is available, of course) in the >> winter. But not so much in the summer. So I'd need to look into a FiT for a >> decent financial return. An electric car is on my horizon, but not for a
while.
Updated 9th Jan 2024 https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/free-solar-panels/
On Saturday 27 January 2024 at 20:29:24 UTC, RJH wrote:
I'm due to have a new roof in the next month or so, and the roofer has told me
he can install some solar panels 'while he's up there'. I'd imagine there'd be
an installation cost, but it'd likely be considerably less than a heat pump >> installer has quoted (about £14,000 including a 6kW battery).
6kW? How long for?
Bill
In article <up3p30$3h9ec$1@dont-email.me>,
RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
I'm due to have a new roof in the next month or so, and the roofer has
told me he can install some solar panels 'while he's up there'. I'd
imagine there'd be an installation cost, but it'd likely be considerably
less than a heat pump installer has quoted (about £14,000 including a 6kW >> battery).
My question is - would it be worth me buying the 8 panels (about £1000
https://midsummerwholesale.co.uk/buy/longi-solar/longi-lr554hih-410) and
getting the connection sorted out later?
Part of my reason for asking is I'd much prefer a roofer installing the
panels than one of these heat pump companies - having witnessed the
partial destruction of a friend's roof.
I suggest that it depends on the quality of the panels and the company
doing the work. the company I used had good people working on the roof.
Also, if you had a complete installation done you wouldn't pay VAT, butif your roofing man just puts up panels then you could end up paying VAT on them. His price for panels seems quite cheap.
I had a system installed 4
months ago, and 8 panels would have worked out at £6700. Mind you that
price probably includes installation and wiring.
Just looking at the spec for my panels, they are wired up from the back, so they'd need to be taken off to wire them up.
On 27/01/2024 20:29, RJH wrote:
I'm due to have a new roof in the next month or so, and the roofer has told meYou would get more return right now installing an oil boiler and oil
he can install some solar panels 'while he's up there'. I'd imagine there'd be
an installation cost, but it'd likely be considerably less than a heat pump >> installer has quoted (about £14,000 including a 6kW battery).
My question is - would it be worth me buying the 8 panels (about £1000
https://midsummerwholesale.co.uk/buy/longi-solar/longi-lr554hih-410) and
getting the connection sorted out later?
Part of my reason for asking is I'd much prefer a roofer installing the panels
than one of these heat pump companies - having witnessed the partial
destruction of a friend's roof.
tank and filling it up.
And wouldn't be making money out of other electricity consumers
On 27/01/2024 20:29, RJH wrote:
I'm due to have a new roof in the next month or so, and the roofer has told me
he can install some solar panels 'while he's up there'. I'd imagine there'd be
an installation cost, but it'd likely be considerably less than a heat pump >> installer has quoted (about £14,000 including a 6kW battery).
My question is - would it be worth me buying the 8 panels (about £1000
https://midsummerwholesale.co.uk/buy/longi-solar/longi-lr554hih-410) and
getting the connection sorted out later?
Part of my reason for asking is I'd much prefer a roofer installing the panels
than one of these heat pump companies - having witnessed the partial
destruction of a friend's roof.
I would but have you an electrician to connect the lot up? The DNO must
be notified prior to connection to the grid but they will require a
qualified electrician (not necessarily MCS certified) and they are bound
to allow you 3.68kW connected. More than that and you have to get
agreement in advance of connection but it is worth having more than 4kW
of panels if they can fit and faces anywhere from East to Wet facing.
Unless you use less than 3MWh of electricity a year that battery is
probably too small. Last March we fitted 6kW PV, a 5kW inverter, a car charger and 10kWh of storage to my daughter's roof, she has not needed
to buy electricity other than off peak at 11p/kWh since and then only November to now. Since then panel prices have dropped.
As scaffolding is a fair chunk of the installation cost it will probably
be worth absorbing the VAT on the panels but your roofer could do this
bit as a sub contract to the electrician then the electrician would not charge VAT on the whole installation.
If the DNO is happy with the installation then at least one energy
company will pay you for the excess power you export, the rate is high currently (8-15p/kWh) but I don't think that will last as wholesale electricity prices fall over the coming months.
In theory, they are just mounted on brackets that go through to the main roof construction underneath. I'd have thought if they were that bad there would have been a lot of complaints by now.
Brian
On 28 Jan 2024 at 10:18:53 GMT, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
On 27/01/2024 20:29, RJH wrote:
I'm due to have a new roof in the next month or so, and the roofer has told meYou would get more return right now installing an oil boiler and oil
he can install some solar panels 'while he's up there'. I'd imagine there'd be
an installation cost, but it'd likely be considerably less than a heat pump >>> installer has quoted (about £14,000 including a 6kW battery).
My question is - would it be worth me buying the 8 panels (about £1000
https://midsummerwholesale.co.uk/buy/longi-solar/longi-lr554hih-410) and >>> getting the connection sorted out later?
Part of my reason for asking is I'd much prefer a roofer installing the panels
than one of these heat pump companies - having witnessed the partial
destruction of a friend's roof.
tank and filling it up.
It's not just economic return. It's also about reducing waste and consumption,
and comfort. Personally, I wouldn't be relaxed using an oil burner at full tilt just to save a few quid.
At this stage, I'm thinking of insulating as much as possible (my home is already pretty good for a 1920s semi), abandoning the ASHP and factoring in a new gas boiler in the next 5 years, and solar as a reasonable cost/return option while I'm having the roof done (and I can afford it).
And wouldn't be making money out of other electricity consumers
How does that work?!
On 27 Jan 2024 at 21:56:30 GMT, alan_m wrote:
On 27/01/2024 21:31, RJH wrote:
On 27 Jan 2024 at 20:48:34 GMT, Animal wrote:
On Saturday 27 January 2024 at 20:29:24 UTC, RJH wrote:
I'm due to have a new roof in the next month or so, and the roofer has told me
he can install some solar panels 'while he's up there'. I'd imagine there'd be
an installation cost, but it'd likely be considerably less than a heat pump
installer has quoted (about £14,000 including a 6kW battery).
My question is - would it be worth me buying the 8 panels (about £1000 >>>>> https://midsummerwholesale.co.uk/buy/longi-solar/longi-lr554hih-410) and >>>>> getting the connection sorted out later?
Part of my reason for asking is I'd much prefer a roofer installing the panels
than one of these heat pump companies - having witnessed the partial >>>>> destruction of a friend's roof.
Solar pv now makes sense if you can get it all done cheaply, and have a way to
use the power. Can you?
Well, it might be reasonably cheap - I'm thinking <£5000 for 8 reasonably> >>> located panels and storage. Based very loosely on
http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Solar_PV_example:_single_garage - but >>> unless it's not obvious, I'm fairly clueless about the whole thing.
The financial return isn't a huge consideration if I can get it installed for
that sort of figure.
I could certainly use the power (when less is available, of course) in the >>> winter. But not so much in the summer. So I'd need to look into a FiT for a >>> decent financial return. An electric car is on my horizon, but not for a >>> while.
Updated 9th Jan 2024
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/free-solar-panels/
Thanks - that's useful, especially the export tariffs.
On 28 Jan 2024 at 17:08:34 GMT, "Brian Gaff" wrote:
In theory, they are just mounted on brackets that go through to the main
roof construction underneath. I'd have thought if they were that bad there >> would have been a lot of complaints by now.
Brian
Indeed. But this proliferation of installers is quite recent. Maybe earlier installs were done by more able contractors?
On 27/01/2024 20:29, RJH wrote:
I'm due to have a new roof in the next month or so, and the roofer has
told me
he can install some solar panels 'while he's up there'. I'd imagine
there'd be
an installation cost, but it'd likely be considerably less than a heat
pump
installer has quoted (about £14,000 including a 6kW battery).
My question is - would it be worth me buying the 8 panels (about £1000
https://midsummerwholesale.co.uk/buy/longi-solar/longi-lr554hih-410) and
getting the connection sorted out later?
Part of my reason for asking is I'd much prefer a roofer installing
the panels
than one of these heat pump companies - having witnessed the partial
destruction of a friend's roof.
If being done as part of a new roof, consider in-roof panels where the
panels are the roof, rather than mounting them on top of the roof. That
will save buying the tiles to go under them, bird-proofing around them, cutting brackets through the tiles, etc.
On 27 Jan 2024 at 21:45:05 GMT, charles wrote:
In article <up3p30$3h9ec$1@dont-email.me>, RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com>
wrote:
I'm due to have a new roof in the next month or so, and the roofer has
told me he can install some solar panels 'while he's up there'. I'd
imagine there'd be an installation cost, but it'd likely be
considerably less than a heat pump installer has quoted (about £14,000
including a 6kW battery).
My question is - would it be worth me buying the 8 panels (about £1000
https://midsummerwholesale.co.uk/buy/longi-solar/longi-lr554hih-410)
and getting the connection sorted out later?
Part of my reason for asking is I'd much prefer a roofer installing
the panels than one of these heat pump companies - having witnessed
the partial destruction of a friend's roof.
I suggest that it depends on the quality of the panels and the company doing the work. the company I used had good people working on the roof.
Also, if you had a complete installation done you wouldn't pay VAT,
butif your roofing man just puts up panels then you could end up paying
VAT on them. His price for panels seems quite cheap.
My estimate based on the DIY wiki page. Panels seem to have gone down in price recently - but supply looks to be very patchy.
I've thrown the whole thing over to the roofer - so I'll see what he says.
I had a system installed 4 months ago, and 8 panels would have worked
out at £6700. Mind you that price probably includes installation and wiring.
Yes, I'll need to cost the VAT factor, forgot about that.
Just looking at the spec for my panels, they are wired up from the
back, so they'd need to be taken off to wire them up.
Good to know, thanks. How incidentally does the wire(s) find its way into
the roof void?
On 27 Jan 2024 at 21:45:05 GMT, charles wrote:
In article <up3p30$3h9ec$1@dont-email.me>,
RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
I'm due to have a new roof in the next month or so, and the roofer has
told me he can install some solar panels 'while he's up there'. I'd
imagine there'd be an installation cost, but it'd likely be considerably >>> less than a heat pump installer has quoted (about £14,000 including a 6kW >>> battery).
My question is - would it be worth me buying the 8 panels (about £1000
https://midsummerwholesale.co.uk/buy/longi-solar/longi-lr554hih-410) and >>> getting the connection sorted out later?
Part of my reason for asking is I'd much prefer a roofer installing the
panels than one of these heat pump companies - having witnessed the
partial destruction of a friend's roof.
I suggest that it depends on the quality of the panels and the company
doing the work. the company I used had good people working on the roof.
Also, if you had a complete installation done you wouldn't pay VAT, butif
your roofing man just puts up panels then you could end up paying VAT on
them. His price for panels seems quite cheap.
My estimate based on the DIY wiki page. Panels seem to have gone down in price
recently - but supply looks to be very patchy.
I've thrown the whole thing over to the roofer - so I'll see what he says.
I had a system installed 4
months ago, and 8 panels would have worked out at £6700. Mind you that
price probably includes installation and wiring.
Yes, I'll need to cost the VAT factor, forgot about that.
Just looking at the spec for my panels, they are wired up from the back, so >> they'd need to be taken off to wire them up.
Good to know, thanks. How incidentally does the wire(s) find its way into the roof void?
Just looking at the spec for my panels, they are wired up from the back, so they'd need to be taken off to wire them up.
charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
Just looking at the spec for my panels, they are wired up from the back, so >> they'd need to be taken off to wire them up.
What I'd do in this situation is run a pair of wires from every panel to a terminal block in the loft (not necessarily a chock block, perhaps something a bit more sturdy and with a suitable rating for DC). Then configuring the panels into strings is something you can do later from the comfort of the loft, rather than having to crawl on the roof to install the connections later.
Stringing is part of the system design that needs to be matched to the inverter - if we don't know what inverter we're going to use we don't want
to be a hostage to fortune as to how the panels are connected. You may also need to add optimisers to each panel or pair, or use microinverters instead of one big inverter.
You'll spend more on wire prewiring everything, and you need to watch the voltage drops in the wire (longer wires = more losses, maybe need to upgrade to fatter wires) but it will turn the rest of the install to a warm-and-dry electrician job rather than a crawl-on-the-roof roofing job.
There's one awkwardness though: to configure the DC side of things you'd
need the wiring to be de-energised, which either means having isolators on each DC wire, covering up the panels, or doing it at night. I suppose you could also have some kind of connector that can have the downstream side prewired offline and then plugged together at night when the panels aren't generating. Would need to find a sparky happy with this arrangement as they might not have seen it before.
Is the builder qualified to do all this non-standard wiring and safety isolation? The perceived cost saving by having the builder install just
the panels while the roof is being done may not be real. If someone at a later date needs to work on the roof to connect the panels probably they
will need some form of scaffolding erected and the extra cost of wiring
and associated equipment may negate any possible savings.
alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
Is the builder qualified to do all this non-standard wiring and safety
isolation? The perceived cost saving by having the builder install just
the panels while the roof is being done may not be real. If someone at a
later date needs to work on the roof to connect the panels probably they
will need some form of scaffolding erected and the extra cost of wiring
and associated equipment may negate any possible savings.
TBH once the panels are up the electrical install isn't such a big deal (<1> day unless there are complicating factors). So I'm not sure why you would install the panels and not connect them, since they only have to generate enough to pay back for the invwrter and wiring before making it worth your while. You don't need a battery at this stage, that can come later.
After all, once the panels are on the roof the ~25 year life begins, so
silly not to do the last bit to have them paying back.
The connections at the panels are just push in MC4 connectors so hard for a builder to mess up I'd have thought?
On 3 Feb 2024 at 09:43:45 GMT, Theo wrote:
alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
Is the builder qualified to do all this non-standard wiring and safety
isolation? The perceived cost saving by having the builder install just >> the panels while the roof is being done may not be real. If someone at a >> later date needs to work on the roof to connect the panels probably they >> will need some form of scaffolding erected and the extra cost of wiring
and associated equipment may negate any possible savings.
TBH once the panels are up the electrical install isn't such a big deal (<1>
day unless there are complicating factors). So I'm not sure why you would install the panels and not connect them, since they only have to generate enough to pay back for the invwrter and wiring before making it worth your while. You don't need a battery at this stage, that can come later.
I suppose my problem is the MCS certification bit if I want to be able to export. Would an MCS qualified electrician be willing to carry out any extra work that needs doing? And if so, would there be a hefty premium?
After all, once the panels are on the roof the ~25 year life begins, so silly not to do the last bit to have them paying back.
The connections at the panels are just push in MC4 connectors so hard for a builder to mess up I'd have thought?
As it happens the roofer has just got back to me with the details of an electrician he works with - not, so far as I can see, MCS listed. I'll phone him on Monday to see what's what.
RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
On 3 Feb 2024 at 09:43:45 GMT, Theo wrote:
alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
Is the builder qualified to do all this non-standard wiring and safety >>>> isolation? The perceived cost saving by having the builder install just >>>> the panels while the roof is being done may not be real. If someone at a >>>> later date needs to work on the roof to connect the panels probably they >>>> will need some form of scaffolding erected and the extra cost of wiring >>>> and associated equipment may negate any possible savings.
TBH once the panels are up the electrical install isn't such a big deal (<1>
day unless there are complicating factors). So I'm not sure why you would >>> install the panels and not connect them, since they only have to generate >>> enough to pay back for the invwrter and wiring before making it worth your >>> while. You don't need a battery at this stage, that can come later.
I suppose my problem is the MCS certification bit if I want to be able to
export. Would an MCS qualified electrician be willing to carry out any extra >> work that needs doing? And if so, would there be a hefty premium?
You can only ask. See if there's an MCS installer who is willing for the builder to mount the panels - after all it's probably make it a much quicker/easier job than having to install scaffolding etc themselves.
After all, once the panels are on the roof the ~25 year life begins, so
silly not to do the last bit to have them paying back.
The connections at the panels are just push in MC4 connectors so hard for a >>> builder to mess up I'd have thought?
As it happens the roofer has just got back to me with the details of an
electrician he works with - not, so far as I can see, MCS listed. I'll phone >> him on Monday to see what's what.
For the record Octopus will pay export tariffs without an MCS install -
other energy companies may follow suit, but for the moment MCS gives you
more options.
On 03/02/2024 22:23, Theo wrote:
RJH <patchmoney@gmx.com> wrote:
On 3 Feb 2024 at 09:43:45 GMT, Theo wrote:
alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
Is the builder qualified to do all this non-standard wiring and safety >>>>> isolation? The perceived cost saving by having the builder install >>>>> just
the panels while the roof is being done may not be real. If someone
at a
later date needs to work on the roof to connect the panels probably
they
will need some form of scaffolding erected and the extra cost of
wiring
and associated equipment may negate any possible savings.
TBH once the panels are up the electrical install isn't such a big
deal (<1>
day unless there are complicating factors). So I'm not sure why you
would
install the panels and not connect them, since they only have to
generate
enough to pay back for the invwrter and wiring before making it
worth your
while. You don't need a battery at this stage, that can come later.
I suppose my problem is the MCS certification bit if I want to be
able to
export. Would an MCS qualified electrician be willing to carry out
any extra
work that needs doing? And if so, would there be a hefty premium?
You can only ask. See if there's an MCS installer who is willing for the >> builder to mount the panels - after all it's probably make it a much
quicker/easier job than having to install scaffolding etc themselves.
After all, once the panels are on the roof the ~25 year life begins, so >>>> silly not to do the last bit to have them paying back.
The connections at the panels are just push in MC4 connectors so
hard for a
builder to mess up I'd have thought?
As it happens the roofer has just got back to me with the details of an
electrician he works with - not, so far as I can see, MCS listed.
I'll phone
him on Monday to see what's what.
For the record Octopus will pay export tariffs without an MCS install -
other energy companies may follow suit, but for the moment MCS gives you
more options.
They do charge an inspection fee so if the installation is not up to an acceptable standard they may reject the installation for export tariff purposes.
On 04/02/2024 00:33, alan_m wrote:
On 03/02/2024 22:23, Theo wrote:
For the record Octopus will pay export tariffs without an MCS install -
other energy companies may follow suit, but for the moment MCS gives you >> more options.
They do charge an inspection fee so if the installation is not up to an acceptable standard they may reject the installation for export tariff purposes.
But an inspection might require scaffolding for access anyway
and I thought the low voltage interconnects have to be plugged
in from panel to panel as they are being installed. Do you
want to trust a 'builder' to do this ?.
Andrew <Andrew97d@btinternet.com> wrote:
On 04/02/2024 00:33, alan_m wrote:
On 03/02/2024 22:23, Theo wrote:
For the record Octopus will pay export tariffs without an MCS install - >>>> other energy companies may follow suit, but for the moment MCS gives you >>>> more options.
They do charge an inspection fee so if the installation is not up to an
acceptable standard they may reject the installation for export tariff
purposes.
That's interesting, they didn't say that when the announced the change.
Seems to be a £250 'admin fee' and if accepted you're limited to some tariffs:
https://www.reddit.com/r/OctopusEnergy/comments/17paaer/i_have_a_battery_solar_system_but_its_not_mcs/
At which point, getting the builder to mount the panels and getting an MCS person to do the rest may make sense. There are certain parts of MCS that relate to the design of the system (don't mount panels vertically on a north facing wall) but unless there is something egregious I imagine an MCS installer can work with what they have - after all you don't get to rebuild your house facing a different way. It is probably worth getting them involved before the panels go up as I think some parts of MCS relate to waterproofing, wind loads, etc.
But an inspection might require scaffolding for access anyway
and I thought the low voltage interconnects have to be plugged
in from panel to panel as they are being installed. Do you
want to trust a 'builder' to do this ?.
I don't think Octopus care about how your panels are wired up, they're more interested in the grid side of things (ie do you have the number of panels/batteries you say you do, or did you sling a cable through to next door?). I doubt the £250 is going to cover roof access beyond going up a ladder.
Theo wrote:
I don't think Octopus care about how your panels are wired up, they're more interested in the grid side of things (ie do you have the number of panels/batteries you say you do, or did you sling a cable through to next door?). I doubt the £250 is going to cover roof access beyond going up a ladder.
The £250 fee is likely to "eat" about 18 months of production from 8
panels, assuming you don't consume any yourself ...
Indeed. The current system seems to me to be a daft scheme. There is no logical reason that connection to the grid should require anything but a check that the inverter is certified and its connections to the
grid/earthing are correct.
On 04/02/2024 12:02, SteveW wrote:
Indeed. The current system seems to me to be a daft scheme. There is no logical reason that connection to the grid should require anything but a check that the inverter is certified and its connections to the grid/earthing are correct.
The DNO is interested to know about your system, because it could (along
with all your neighbours' systems) cause them problems on a sunny
summer's day.
If the system is capable of pushing out more than 3.68kW, they are very interested, and spend three months procrastinating before giving
approval (or not).
(although Octopus will probably want to check that the DNO paperwork was submitted, for <16A per phase you just fill in a form and send it in; the
DNO doesn't have a veto for smaller installations)
The DNO may not have a veto but will still require the installation to
be an acceptable standard.
For instance tThe DNO would like to know that you cannot feed 230V back
into the networks if the power goes off, thus protecting workers trying
to repair the supply.
alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
Is the builder qualified to do all this non-standard wiring and safety
isolation? The perceived cost saving by having the builder install just
the panels while the roof is being done may not be real. If someone at a
later date needs to work on the roof to connect the panels probably they
will need some form of scaffolding erected and the extra cost of wiring
and associated equipment may negate any possible savings.
TBH once the panels are up the electrical install isn't such a big deal (<1 >day unless there are complicating factors). So I'm not sure why you would >install the panels and not connect them, since they only have to generate >enough to pay back for the invwrter and wiring before making it worth your >while. You don't need a battery at this stage, that can come later.
After all, once the panels are on the roof the ~25 year life begins, so
silly not to do the last bit to have them paying back.
The connections at the panels are just push in MC4 connectors so hard for a >builder to mess up I'd have thought?
Theo
In article <Xtg*0k4Bz@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, Theo <theom+news@chi ark.greenend.org.uk> scribeth thusOOI, is there anything special or unique about the cable that's sold for
alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
Is the builder qualified to do all this non-standard wiring and safety
isolation? The perceived cost saving by having the builder install just >>> the panels while the roof is being done may not be real. If someone at a >>> later date needs to work on the roof to connect the panels probably they >>> will need some form of scaffolding erected and the extra cost of wiring
and associated equipment may negate any possible savings.
TBH once the panels are up the electrical install isn't such a big deal (<1 >> day unless there are complicating factors). So I'm not sure why you would >> install the panels and not connect them, since they only have to generate
enough to pay back for the invwrter and wiring before making it worth your >> while. You don't need a battery at this stage, that can come later.
After all, once the panels are on the roof the ~25 year life begins, so
silly not to do the last bit to have them paying back.
The connections at the panels are just push in MC4 connectors so hard for a >> builder to mess up I'd have thought?
Theo
https://midsummerwholesale.co.uk/buy/solar-cable-and-connectors
is there anything special or unique about the cable that's sold for
PV systems?
I was being lazy
I'd expected the UV, LSZH and temp considerations but (showing my
ignorance about PV) why 1.8kV?
nothanks@aolbin.com wrote:Thanks (yes, I was being lazy). I'd expected the UV, LSZH and temp considerations but (showing my ignorance about PV) why 1.8kV?
is there anything special or unique about the cable that's sold for PV
systems?
double insulated to 1.8kV DC, UV resistant, copes with wide range of
ambient temperatures, LSZH ... that sort of thing, no doubt there's a
spec somewhere it has to meet?
nothanks@aolbin.com wrote:
is there anything special or unique about the cable that's sold for
PV systems?
double insulated to 1.8kV DC, UV resistant, copes with wide range of
ambient temperatures, LSZH ... that sort of thing, no doubt there's a
spec somewhere it has to meet?
nothanks@aolbin.com wrote:
I was being lazy
BS EN 50618 and H1Z2Z2-K
I'd expected the UV, LSZH and temp considerations but (showing my >>ignorance about PV) why 1.8kV?
Assuming it's not microinverters, the panels are wired in series so you
do get high voltages (maybe 600-700V per string) so a 2x to 3x margin
of safety ...
On 2024-02-14, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
nothanks@aolbin.com wrote:
is there anything special or unique about the cable that's sold for
PV systems?
double insulated to 1.8kV DC, UV resistant, copes with wide range of
ambient temperatures, LSZH ... that sort of thing, no doubt there's a
spec somewhere it has to meet?
My opinion on solar panels. One can get money to install solar panels
and get power when the Sun shines, or get the money, put it in the fireplace, set it on fire, and get heat for a while (May be difficult
with bitcoins)
In message <l33lcvFidpnU1@mid.individual.net>, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> writes
nothanks@aolbin.com wrote:
I was being lazy
BS EN 50618 and H1Z2Z2-K
I'd expected the UV, LSZH and temp considerations but (showing my
ignorance about PV) why 1.8kV?
Assuming it's not microinverters, the panels are wired in series so
you do get high voltages (maybe 600-700V per string) so a 2x to 3x
margin of safety ...
Er. 60 years ago:-) I was instructed that while a safety margin of 3
would do for mechanical structures, electrical safety required a factor
of 5!
On 14/02/2024 12:25, Tim Lamb wrote:
In message <l33lcvFidpnU1@mid.individual.net>, Andy Burns
<usenet@andyburns.uk> writes
nothanks@aolbin.com wrote:
I was being lazy
BS EN 50618 and H1Z2Z2-K
I'd expected the UV, LSZH and temp considerations but (showing my
ignorance about PV) why 1.8kV?
Assuming it's not microinverters, the panels are wired in series so
you do get high voltages (maybe 600-700V per string) so a 2x to 3x
margin of safety ...
Er. 60 years ago:-) I was instructed that while a safety margin of 3
would do for mechanical structures, electrical safety required a
factor of 5!
Surely, for cabling, the safety margin is built in - with 250V certified cable being suitable for mains, etc. - and is actually safe at much
higher voltages?
On 14/02/2024 11:23, maus wrote:
On 2024-02-14, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:LOL!
nothanks@aolbin.com wrote:
is there anything special or unique about the cable that's sold for
PV systems?
double insulated to 1.8kV DC, UV resistant, copes with wide range of
ambient temperatures, LSZH ... that sort of thing, no doubt there's a
spec somewhere it has to meet?
My opinion on solar panels. One can get money to install solar panels
and get power when the Sun shines, or get the money, put it in the
fireplace, set it on fire, and get heat for a while (May be difficult
with bitcoins)
Yes. In the end unless you do a very precise cost benefit analysis you
really don't know, and I have seen too many people believing what they
wanted to believe instead of calculating the cost:benefit.
The reality is that without government mandated subsidies there is no
overall benefit.
It's the same for heatpumps and BEVs. The people who have them swear
blind they work, the people who have done the sums don't buy them.
The best investment I have made is the £200 or so to build a very
precisely programmable central heating controller. I believe my oil >consumption has improved by maybe 30%.
That is a serious amount of money.
In article <uqiasp$2klrs$5@dont-email.me>, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> scribeth thus
On 14/02/2024 11:23, maus wrote:ISTR That Theo on this group did a lot of calcs and though they did or
On 2024-02-14, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:LOL!
nothanks@aolbin.com wrote:
is there anything special or unique about the cable that's sold for
PV systems?
double insulated to 1.8kV DC, UV resistant, copes with wide range of
ambient temperatures, LSZH ... that sort of thing, no doubt there's a
spec somewhere it has to meet?
My opinion on solar panels. One can get money to install solar panels
and get power when the Sun shines, or get the money, put it in the
fireplace, set it on fire, and get heat for a while (May be difficult
with bitcoins)
Yes. In the end unless you do a very precise cost benefit analysis you
really don't know, and I have seen too many people believing what they
wanted to believe instead of calculating the cost:benefit.
The reality is that without government mandated subsidies there is no
overall benefit.
It's the same for heatpumps and BEVs. The people who have them swear
blind they work, the people who have done the sums don't buy them.
The best investment I have made is the £200 or so to build a very
precisely programmable central heating controller. I believe my oil
consumption has improved by maybe 30%.
That is a serious amount of money.
could pay back
I did a rough one a while ago have a large easily accessible flat roof
and a south facing wall i can hang some on. No scaffolding required and
the cost of the panels from a local supplier was around 130 quid i see
they are cheaper now, Electric is around 33 p a unit it didn't seem that
long before it would be paid for. Its not going to happen before long
and I'll go through it again..
And I'm sure they'll outlast me!!!
ISTR That Theo on this group did a lot of calcs and though they did or
could pay back
I did a rough one a while ago have a large easily accessible flat roof
and a south facing wall i can hang some on. No scaffolding required and
the cost of the panels from a local supplier was around 130 quid i see
they are cheaper now, Electric is around 33 p a unit it didn't seem that
long before it would be paid for. Its not going to happen before long
and I'll go through it again..
On 2024-02-14, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
nothanks@aolbin.com wrote:
is there anything special or unique about the cable that's sold for
PV systems?
double insulated to 1.8kV DC, UV resistant, copes with wide range of
ambient temperatures, LSZH ... that sort of thing, no doubt there's a
spec somewhere it has to meet?
My opinion on solar panels. One can get money to install solar panels
and get power when the Sun shines, or get the money, put it in the fireplace, set it on fire, and get heat for a while (May be difficult
with bitcoins)
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