• 'Drilling' holes in closed cell foam - how?

    From Chris Green@21:1/5 to All on Mon Apr 8 16:33:50 2024
    Has anyone any bright ideas how to make shallow, blind holes in closed
    cell foam? It is Plastazote foam so quite dense and stiff.

    I want to make 12mm or 15mm diameter depressions about 3mm deep (the
    foam is 10mm thick).

    I was wondering if using a plunge router or a pillar drill with a
    forstner bit might work. I have a router and a small, quite high
    speed, pillar drill. I don't at present have any forstner bits.

    So I will probably try the router but opinions on the forstner bit
    instead would be welcome.

    --
    Chris Green
    ·

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  • From nothanks@aolbin.com@21:1/5 to Chris Green on Mon Apr 8 17:40:54 2024
    On 08/04/2024 16:33, Chris Green wrote:
    Has anyone any bright ideas how to make shallow, blind holes in closed
    cell foam? It is Plastazote foam so quite dense and stiff.

    I want to make 12mm or 15mm diameter depressions about 3mm deep (the
    foam is 10mm thick).

    I was wondering if using a plunge router or a pillar drill with a
    forstner bit might work. I have a router and a small, quite high
    speed, pillar drill. I don't at present have any forstner bits.

    So I will probably try the router but opinions on the forstner bit
    instead would be welcome.

    Something hot?

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  • From Chris Green@21:1/5 to John Rumm on Tue Apr 9 13:29:10 2024
    John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
    On 08/04/2024 16:33, Chris Green wrote:
    Has anyone any bright ideas how to make shallow, blind holes in closed
    cell foam? It is Plastazote foam so quite dense and stiff.

    I want to make 12mm or 15mm diameter depressions about 3mm deep (the
    foam is 10mm thick).

    I was wondering if using a plunge router or a pillar drill with a
    forstner bit might work. I have a router and a small, quite high
    speed, pillar drill. I don't at present have any forstner bits.

    So I will probably try the router but opinions on the forstner bit
    instead would be welcome.


    A router will give you a flat bottomed hole, and accurate control of the depth. You could probably stick a router bit in the pillar drill if you wanted...

    "A router bit in the pillar drill", that's an idea which will be easy
    to try, thank you. I may actually get round to trying it later today.
    I will report on results.

    --
    Chris Green
    ·

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  • From John Rumm@21:1/5 to Chris Green on Tue Apr 9 13:16:09 2024
    On 08/04/2024 16:33, Chris Green wrote:
    Has anyone any bright ideas how to make shallow, blind holes in closed
    cell foam? It is Plastazote foam so quite dense and stiff.

    I want to make 12mm or 15mm diameter depressions about 3mm deep (the
    foam is 10mm thick).

    I was wondering if using a plunge router or a pillar drill with a
    forstner bit might work. I have a router and a small, quite high
    speed, pillar drill. I don't at present have any forstner bits.

    So I will probably try the router but opinions on the forstner bit
    instead would be welcome.


    A router will give you a flat bottomed hole, and accurate control of the
    depth. You could probably stick a router bit in the pillar drill if you wanted...

    --
    Cheers,

    John.

    /=================================================================\
    | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------|
    | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \=================================================================/

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  • From Chris Green@21:1/5 to Chris Green on Tue Apr 9 17:51:28 2024
    Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
    John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
    On 08/04/2024 16:33, Chris Green wrote:
    Has anyone any bright ideas how to make shallow, blind holes in closed cell foam? It is Plastazote foam so quite dense and stiff.

    I want to make 12mm or 15mm diameter depressions about 3mm deep (the
    foam is 10mm thick).

    I was wondering if using a plunge router or a pillar drill with a forstner bit might work. I have a router and a small, quite high
    speed, pillar drill. I don't at present have any forstner bits.

    So I will probably try the router but opinions on the forstner bit instead would be welcome.


    A router will give you a flat bottomed hole, and accurate control of the depth. You could probably stick a router bit in the pillar drill if you wanted...

    "A router bit in the pillar drill", that's an idea which will be easy
    to try, thank you. I may actually get round to trying it later today.
    I will report on results.

    It worked pretty well in that it cut away the foam neatly but it
    didn't produce a flat bottomed hole, it cut a neat circular channel. I
    think maybe some Forstner bits may get closer to the flat bottom I'm
    after.

    --
    Chris Green
    ·

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  • From Andy Burns@21:1/5 to Chris Green on Tue Apr 9 17:45:28 2024
    Chris Green wrote:

    Has anyone any bright ideas how to make shallow, blind holes in closed
    cell foam?

    red-hot poker?

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  • From nothanks@aolbin.com@21:1/5 to Chris Green on Tue Apr 9 22:50:15 2024
    On 08/04/2024 16:33, Chris Green wrote:
    Has anyone any bright ideas how to make shallow, blind holes in closed
    cell foam? It is Plastazote foam so quite dense and stiff.

    I want to make 12mm or 15mm diameter depressions about 3mm deep (the
    foam is 10mm thick).

    I was wondering if using a plunge router or a pillar drill with a
    forstner bit might work. I have a router and a small, quite high
    speed, pillar drill. I don't at present have any forstner bits.

    So I will probably try the router but opinions on the forstner bit
    instead would be welcome.

    If a heated rod can't be used then:
    - make a D bit. Take a rod (drill, silver steel, bolt) of correct
    diameter, grind off a section so that the profile is a D shape (flat
    section just less than the diameter), file a bit of relief on the
    leading edge (might not need that for foam).
    or
    - buy a slot drill of the right size (google)

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  • From Chris Green@21:1/5 to Roger Mills on Wed Apr 10 09:35:04 2024
    Roger Mills <mills37.fslife@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 09/04/2024 17:51, Chris Green wrote:
    Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
    John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
    On 08/04/2024 16:33, Chris Green wrote:
    Has anyone any bright ideas how to make shallow, blind holes in closed >>>> cell foam? It is Plastazote foam so quite dense and stiff.

    I want to make 12mm or 15mm diameter depressions about 3mm deep (the >>>> foam is 10mm thick).

    I was wondering if using a plunge router or a pillar drill with a
    forstner bit might work. I have a router and a small, quite high
    speed, pillar drill. I don't at present have any forstner bits.

    So I will probably try the router but opinions on the forstner bit
    instead would be welcome.


    A router will give you a flat bottomed hole, and accurate control of the >>> depth. You could probably stick a router bit in the pillar drill if you >>> wanted...

    "A router bit in the pillar drill", that's an idea which will be easy
    to try, thank you. I may actually get round to trying it later today.
    I will report on results.

    It worked pretty well in that it cut away the foam neatly but it
    didn't produce a flat bottomed hole, it cut a neat circular channel. I think maybe some Forstner bits may get closer to the flat bottom I'm
    after.


    A Forstner bit would certainly be my first choice. Even they have a
    small locating spike in the middle, so the bottom won't be totally flat unless you grind off the spike.

    Aldi and Lidl often have cheap sets which would probably be sufficient
    for your purposes.

    The hole in the middle won't matter. I've ordered a cheap set from
    Amazon for the princely sum of £14.99. it has the 10mm, 12mm and 15mm diameters I need (plus 16 others!).

    They should arrive today so we'll see! :-)

    --
    Chris Green
    ·

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  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to All on Wed Apr 10 10:45:59 2024
    On 10/04/2024 10:23, alan_m wrote:
    On 10/04/2024 09:35, Chris Green wrote:
    Roger Mills <mills37.fslife@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 09/04/2024 17:51, Chris Green wrote:
    Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
    John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
    On 08/04/2024 16:33, Chris Green wrote:
    Has anyone any bright ideas how to make shallow, blind holes in
    closed
    cell foam?  It is Plastazote foam so quite dense and stiff.

    I want to make 12mm or 15mm diameter depressions about 3mm deep (the >>>>>>> foam is 10mm thick).

    I was wondering if using a plunge router or a pillar drill with a >>>>>>> forstner bit might work.  I have a router and a small, quite high >>>>>>> speed, pillar drill.  I don't at present have any forstner bits. >>>>>>>
    So I will probably try the router but opinions on the forstner bit >>>>>>> instead would be welcome.


    A router will give you a flat bottomed hole, and accurate control
    of the
    depth. You could probably stick a router bit in the pillar drill
    if you
    wanted...

    "A router bit in the pillar drill", that's an idea which will be easy >>>>> to try, thank you.  I may actually get round to trying it later today. >>>>> I will report on results.

    It worked pretty well in that it cut away the foam neatly but it
    didn't produce a flat bottomed hole, it cut a neat circular channel. I >>>> think maybe some Forstner bits may get closer to the flat bottom I'm
    after.


    A Forstner bit would certainly be my first choice. Even they have a
    small locating spike in the middle, so the bottom won't be totally flat
    unless you grind off the spike.

    Aldi and Lidl often have cheap sets which would probably be sufficient
    for your purposes.

    The hole in the middle won't matter.  I've ordered a cheap set from
    Amazon for the princely sum of £14.99. it has the 10mm, 12mm and 15mm
    diameters I need (plus 16 others!).

    They should arrive today so we'll see! :-)

    Although nothing in the size you want, the hole cutters made of plastic
    used for cutting shallow holes in (exterior) foam insulation are
    somewhat open probably to allow balled up foam to easily escape during drilling.

    https://www.shopewi.co.uk/product/plastic-ewi-router-for-eps-insulation-boards/



    That is simply a hole saw. and if the pilot hole it leaves is not an
    issue why not get a proper set..?

    https://www.diy.com/departments/carbon-steel-5-piece-holesaw-set/1732845_BQ.prd

    Hardly a bank breaker

    But I see you already spent more at amazon :-)


    --
    “It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established
    authorities are wrong.”

    ― Voltaire, The Age of Louis XIV

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  • From John Rumm@21:1/5 to The Natural Philosopher on Wed Apr 10 11:11:13 2024
    On 10/04/2024 10:45, The Natural Philosopher wrote:
    On 10/04/2024 10:23, alan_m wrote:
    On 10/04/2024 09:35, Chris Green wrote:
    Roger Mills <mills37.fslife@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 09/04/2024 17:51, Chris Green wrote:
    Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
    John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
    On 08/04/2024 16:33, Chris Green wrote:
    Has anyone any bright ideas how to make shallow, blind holes in >>>>>>>> closed
    cell foam?  It is Plastazote foam so quite dense and stiff.

    I want to make 12mm or 15mm diameter depressions about 3mm deep >>>>>>>> (the
    foam is 10mm thick).

    I was wondering if using a plunge router or a pillar drill with a >>>>>>>> forstner bit might work.  I have a router and a small, quite high >>>>>>>> speed, pillar drill.  I don't at present have any forstner bits. >>>>>>>>
    So I will probably try the router but opinions on the forstner bit >>>>>>>> instead would be welcome.


    A router will give you a flat bottomed hole, and accurate control >>>>>>> of the
    depth. You could probably stick a router bit in the pillar drill >>>>>>> if you
    wanted...

    "A router bit in the pillar drill", that's an idea which will be easy >>>>>> to try, thank you.  I may actually get round to trying it later
    today.
    I will report on results.

    It worked pretty well in that it cut away the foam neatly but it
    didn't produce a flat bottomed hole, it cut a neat circular channel. I >>>>> think maybe some Forstner bits may get closer to the flat bottom I'm >>>>> after.


    A Forstner bit would certainly be my first choice. Even they have a
    small locating spike in the middle, so the bottom won't be totally flat >>>> unless you grind off the spike.

    Aldi and Lidl often have cheap sets which would probably be sufficient >>>> for your purposes.

    The hole in the middle won't matter.  I've ordered a cheap set from
    Amazon for the princely sum of £14.99. it has the 10mm, 12mm and 15mm
    diameters I need (plus 16 others!).

    They should arrive today so we'll see! :-)

    Although nothing in the size you want, the hole cutters made of
    plastic used for cutting shallow holes in (exterior) foam insulation
    are somewhat open probably to allow balled up foam to easily escape
    during drilling.

    https://www.shopewi.co.uk/product/plastic-ewi-router-for-eps-insulation-boards/



    That is simply a hole saw.  and if the pilot hole it leaves  is not an issue why not get a proper set..?

    It is not a normal hole saw since it has radial teeth as well - it is
    designed to mill out a cylindrical pocket, not just cut the annulus.



    --
    Cheers,

    John.

    /=================================================================\
    | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------|
    | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \=================================================================/

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  • From alan_m@21:1/5 to Chris Green on Wed Apr 10 10:23:45 2024
    On 10/04/2024 09:35, Chris Green wrote:
    Roger Mills <mills37.fslife@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 09/04/2024 17:51, Chris Green wrote:
    Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
    John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
    On 08/04/2024 16:33, Chris Green wrote:
    Has anyone any bright ideas how to make shallow, blind holes in closed >>>>>> cell foam? It is Plastazote foam so quite dense and stiff.

    I want to make 12mm or 15mm diameter depressions about 3mm deep (the >>>>>> foam is 10mm thick).

    I was wondering if using a plunge router or a pillar drill with a
    forstner bit might work. I have a router and a small, quite high
    speed, pillar drill. I don't at present have any forstner bits.

    So I will probably try the router but opinions on the forstner bit >>>>>> instead would be welcome.


    A router will give you a flat bottomed hole, and accurate control of the >>>>> depth. You could probably stick a router bit in the pillar drill if you >>>>> wanted...

    "A router bit in the pillar drill", that's an idea which will be easy
    to try, thank you. I may actually get round to trying it later today. >>>> I will report on results.

    It worked pretty well in that it cut away the foam neatly but it
    didn't produce a flat bottomed hole, it cut a neat circular channel. I
    think maybe some Forstner bits may get closer to the flat bottom I'm
    after.


    A Forstner bit would certainly be my first choice. Even they have a
    small locating spike in the middle, so the bottom won't be totally flat
    unless you grind off the spike.

    Aldi and Lidl often have cheap sets which would probably be sufficient
    for your purposes.

    The hole in the middle won't matter. I've ordered a cheap set from
    Amazon for the princely sum of £14.99. it has the 10mm, 12mm and 15mm diameters I need (plus 16 others!).

    They should arrive today so we'll see! :-)

    Although nothing in the size you want, the hole cutters made of plastic
    used for cutting shallow holes in (exterior) foam insulation are
    somewhat open probably to allow balled up foam to easily escape during drilling.

    https://www.shopewi.co.uk/product/plastic-ewi-router-for-eps-insulation-boards/



    --
    mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

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  • From Chris Green@21:1/5 to The Natural Philosopher on Wed Apr 10 11:18:13 2024
    The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    A Forstner bit would certainly be my first choice. Even they have a
    small locating spike in the middle, so the bottom won't be totally flat >>> unless you grind off the spike.

    Aldi and Lidl often have cheap sets which would probably be sufficient >>> for your purposes.

    The hole in the middle won't matter.  I've ordered a cheap set from
    Amazon for the princely sum of £14.99. it has the 10mm, 12mm and 15mm
    diameters I need (plus 16 others!).

    They should arrive today so we'll see! :-)

    Although nothing in the size you want, the hole cutters made of plastic used for cutting shallow holes in (exterior) foam insulation are
    somewhat open probably to allow balled up foam to easily escape during drilling.

    https://www.shopewi.co.uk/product/plastic-ewi-router-for-eps-insulation-boards/



    That is simply a hole saw. and if the pilot hole it leaves is not an
    issue why not get a proper set..?

    https://www.diy.com/departments/carbon-steel-5-piece-holesaw-set/1732845_BQ.prd

    Hardly a bank breaker

    But I see you already spent more at amazon :-)

    A hole saw doesn't work for blind holes. It would simply cut a slot
    round the piece of foam I want to extract but it wouldn't remove the
    middle.

    I have lots of hole saws, very useful for cutting holes right through
    things but not for blind holes.

    --
    Chris Green
    ·

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  • From alan_m@21:1/5 to John Rumm on Wed Apr 10 11:29:08 2024
    On 10/04/2024 11:11, John Rumm wrote:

    It is not a normal hole saw since it has radial teeth as well - it is designed to mill out a cylindrical pocket, not just cut the annulus.


    Usage
    https://youtu.be/96WN8AtAvNg?t=752

    --
    mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

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  • From John Rumm@21:1/5 to Chris Green on Wed Apr 10 16:52:32 2024
    On 09/04/2024 17:51, Chris Green wrote:
    Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
    John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
    On 08/04/2024 16:33, Chris Green wrote:
    Has anyone any bright ideas how to make shallow, blind holes in closed >>>> cell foam? It is Plastazote foam so quite dense and stiff.

    I want to make 12mm or 15mm diameter depressions about 3mm deep (the
    foam is 10mm thick).

    I was wondering if using a plunge router or a pillar drill with a
    forstner bit might work. I have a router and a small, quite high
    speed, pillar drill. I don't at present have any forstner bits.

    So I will probably try the router but opinions on the forstner bit
    instead would be welcome.


    A router will give you a flat bottomed hole, and accurate control of the >>> depth. You could probably stick a router bit in the pillar drill if you
    wanted...

    "A router bit in the pillar drill", that's an idea which will be easy
    to try, thank you. I may actually get round to trying it later today.
    I will report on results.

    It worked pretty well in that it cut away the foam neatly but it
    didn't produce a flat bottomed hole, it cut a neat circular channel.

    What kind of router cutter was it (straight flute, or up cut / down cut spiral)?

    Also small router cutters normally expect fairly high RPMs - 20K ish -
    so the cut may not be as clean at drill speeds.


    --
    Cheers,

    John.

    /=================================================================\
    | Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk | |-----------------------------------------------------------------|
    | John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk | \=================================================================/

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  • From Chris Green@21:1/5 to John Rumm on Wed Apr 10 17:19:55 2024
    John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
    On 09/04/2024 17:51, Chris Green wrote:
    Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
    John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
    On 08/04/2024 16:33, Chris Green wrote:
    Has anyone any bright ideas how to make shallow, blind holes in closed >>>> cell foam? It is Plastazote foam so quite dense and stiff.

    I want to make 12mm or 15mm diameter depressions about 3mm deep (the >>>> foam is 10mm thick).

    I was wondering if using a plunge router or a pillar drill with a
    forstner bit might work. I have a router and a small, quite high
    speed, pillar drill. I don't at present have any forstner bits.

    So I will probably try the router but opinions on the forstner bit
    instead would be welcome.


    A router will give you a flat bottomed hole, and accurate control of the >>> depth. You could probably stick a router bit in the pillar drill if you >>> wanted...

    "A router bit in the pillar drill", that's an idea which will be easy
    to try, thank you. I may actually get round to trying it later today.
    I will report on results.

    It worked pretty well in that it cut away the foam neatly but it
    didn't produce a flat bottomed hole, it cut a neat circular channel.

    What kind of router cutter was it (straight flute, or up cut / down cut spiral)?

    It was a 'straight' cutter for making parallel sided round holes. It's
    from a set I bought many years ago (20+) from Screwfix I think. It
    cut quite well (i.e. cleanly) the issue is that the cutters on the
    sides project a couple of mm beyond the cutter on the end that removes
    material from the hole. Thus for my 2mm or 3mm deep holes it didn't
    work too well.

    Also small router cutters normally expect fairly high RPMs - 20K ish -
    so the cut may not be as clean at drill speeds.

    --
    Chris Green
    ·

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  • From nothanks@aolbin.com@21:1/5 to Chris Green on Wed Apr 10 18:25:32 2024
    On 10/04/2024 17:19, Chris Green wrote:
    John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
    On 09/04/2024 17:51, Chris Green wrote:
    Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
    John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
    On 08/04/2024 16:33, Chris Green wrote:
    Has anyone any bright ideas how to make shallow, blind holes in closed >>>>>> cell foam? It is Plastazote foam so quite dense and stiff.

    I want to make 12mm or 15mm diameter depressions about 3mm deep (the >>>>>> foam is 10mm thick).

    I was wondering if using a plunge router or a pillar drill with a
    forstner bit might work. I have a router and a small, quite high
    speed, pillar drill. I don't at present have any forstner bits.

    So I will probably try the router but opinions on the forstner bit >>>>>> instead would be welcome.


    A router will give you a flat bottomed hole, and accurate control of the >>>>> depth. You could probably stick a router bit in the pillar drill if you >>>>> wanted...

    "A router bit in the pillar drill", that's an idea which will be easy
    to try, thank you. I may actually get round to trying it later today. >>>> I will report on results.

    It worked pretty well in that it cut away the foam neatly but it
    didn't produce a flat bottomed hole, it cut a neat circular channel.

    What kind of router cutter was it (straight flute, or up cut / down cut
    spiral)?

    It was a 'straight' cutter for making parallel sided round holes. It's
    from a set I bought many years ago (20+) from Screwfix I think. It
    cut quite well (i.e. cleanly) the issue is that the cutters on the
    sides project a couple of mm beyond the cutter on the end that removes material from the hole. Thus for my 2mm or 3mm deep holes it didn't
    work too well.
    Grind the protruding bits off the bottom of the cutters ...

    Also small router cutters normally expect fairly high RPMs - 20K ish -
    so the cut may not be as clean at drill speeds.


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  • From Andy Burns@21:1/5 to The Natural Philosopher on Wed Apr 10 19:17:34 2024
    The Natural Philosopher wrote:

    alan_m wrote:

    https://www.shopewi.co.uk/product/plastic-ewi-router-for-eps-insulation-boards/

    That is simply a hole saw.

    No, it does have "end" cutters on the cruciform section ...

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  • From Chris Green@21:1/5 to Chris Green on Fri Apr 12 09:54:55 2024
    Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
    Has anyone any bright ideas how to make shallow, blind holes in closed
    cell foam? It is Plastazote foam so quite dense and stiff.

    I want to make 12mm or 15mm diameter depressions about 3mm deep (the
    foam is 10mm thick).

    I was wondering if using a plunge router or a pillar drill with a
    forstner bit might work. I have a router and a small, quite high
    speed, pillar drill. I don't at present have any forstner bits.

    So I will probably try the router but opinions on the forstner bit
    instead would be welcome.

    ... and the forstner bits work well in my little pillar drill making a
    neat, flat bottomed hole with a little depression in the middle that
    doesn't matter at all as it's going to have a thin screw through there
    anyway.

    --
    Chris Green
    ·

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