Has anyone had any experience with EWI systems?
In particular, systems designed to be over clad rather than finished
with a light weight render. I quite like the idea of insulation on the
wall, then battens, and something that looks like feather edge cladding
on that.
Has anyone had any experience with EWI systems?
In particular, systems designed to be over clad rather than finished
with a light weight render. I quite like the idea of insulation on the
wall, then battens, and something that looks like feather edge cladding
on that.
Has anyone had any experience with EWI systems?
In particular, systems designed to be over clad rather than finished
with a light weight render. I quite like the idea of insulation on the
wall, then battens, and something that looks like feather edge cladding
on that.
On 06/03/2024 09:53, RJH wrote:
On 6 Mar 2024 at 00:33:59 GMT, John Rumm wrote:
Has anyone had any experience with EWI systems?
In particular, systems designed to be over clad rather than finished
with a light weight render. I quite like the idea of insulation on the
wall, then battens, and something that looks like feather edge cladding
on that.
FWIW, just had a rough estimate for an 8m x 7m wall, about £11,500, using >> brick slips to keep the appearance of the original. Apparently one of the big
things to think about is extending the overhang of the roof 6" or so.
What about the overhang of window sills?
On 6 Mar 2024 at 00:33:59 GMT, John Rumm wrote:
Has anyone had any experience with EWI systems?
In particular, systems designed to be over clad rather than finished
with a light weight render. I quite like the idea of insulation on the
wall, then battens, and something that looks like feather edge cladding
on that.
FWIW, just had a rough estimate for an 8m x 7m wall, about £11,500, using brick slips to keep the appearance of the original. Apparently one of the big things to think about is extending the overhang of the roof 6" or so.
On 6 Mar 2024 at 11:21:59 GMT, alan_m wrote:
On 06/03/2024 09:53, RJH wrote:
On 6 Mar 2024 at 00:33:59 GMT, John Rumm wrote:
Has anyone had any experience with EWI systems?
In particular, systems designed to be over clad rather than finished
with a light weight render. I quite like the idea of insulation on the >>>> wall, then battens, and something that looks like feather edge cladding >>>> on that.
FWIW, just had a rough estimate for an 8m x 7m wall, about £11,500, using >>> brick slips to keep the appearance of the original. Apparently one of the big
things to think about is extending the overhang of the roof 6" or so.
What about the overhang of window sills?
I'm not sure how they do openings - they only mentioned the roof as an issue.
On 06/03/2024 00:33, John Rumm wrote:
Has anyone had any experience with EWI systems?
In particular, systems designed to be over clad rather than finished
with a light weight render. I quite like the idea of insulation on the
wall, then battens, and something that looks like feather edge cladding
on that.
Someone just down the road has had some put in.
The builders are never there when I walk past and I want to ask what the
fire suppression character of the large foam blocks are, under that
light skim of render. Wellat a distance it looked like foam rather than rockwool. Perhaps someone in this thread will know.
I imagine birds, mice,rats etc will chew out nice homes for themselves
in the foam.
On 06/03/2024 11:55, RJH wrote:
On 6 Mar 2024 at 11:21:59 GMT, alan_m wrote:
On 06/03/2024 09:53, RJH wrote:
On 6 Mar 2024 at 00:33:59 GMT, John Rumm wrote:
Has anyone had any experience with EWI systems?
In particular, systems designed to be over clad rather than finished >>>>> with a light weight render. I quite like the idea of insulation on the >>>>> wall, then battens, and something that looks like feather edge cladding >>>>> on that.
FWIW, just had a rough estimate for an 8m x 7m wall, about £11,500, using >>>> brick slips to keep the appearance of the original. Apparently one of the >big
things to think about is extending the overhang of the roof 6" or so.
What about the overhang of window sills?
I'm not sure how they do openings - they only mentioned the roof as an issue.
Board them over - much more energy efficient :-)
On 06/03/2024 09:16, N_Cook wrote:
On 06/03/2024 00:33, John Rumm wrote:
Has anyone had any experience with EWI systems?
In particular, systems designed to be over clad rather than finished
with a light weight render. I quite like the idea of insulation on the
wall, then battens, and something that looks like feather edge cladding
on that.
Someone just down the road has had some put in.
The builders are never there when I walk past and I want to ask what the
fire suppression character of the large foam blocks are, under that
light skim of render. Wellat a distance it looked like foam rather than
rockwool. Perhaps someone in this thread will know.
I imagine birds, mice,rats etc will chew out nice homes for themselves
in the foam.
Another observation of this local clad.
No obvious keying, like expanded metal, to the surface of the foam
panels prior to the thin skim render so presumably liable to spalling
from thermal movements or wind cavitation at edges
On 6 Mar 2024 at 00:33:59 GMT, John Rumm wrote:
Has anyone had any experience with EWI systems?
In particular, systems designed to be over clad rather than finished
with a light weight render. I quite like the idea of insulation on the
wall, then battens, and something that looks like feather edge cladding
on that.
FWIW, just had a rough estimate for an 8m x 7m wall, about £11,500, using brick slips to keep the appearance of the original. Apparently one of the big things to think about is extending the overhang of the roof 6" or so.
On 06/03/2024 09:16, N_Cook wrote:
On 06/03/2024 00:33, John Rumm wrote:
Has anyone had any experience with EWI systems?
In particular, systems designed to be over clad rather than finished
with a light weight render. I quite like the idea of insulation on the
wall, then battens, and something that looks like feather edge cladding
on that.
Someone just down the road has had some put in.
The builders are never there when I walk past and I want to ask what the
fire suppression character of the large foam blocks are, under that
light skim of render. Wellat a distance it looked like foam rather than
rockwool. Perhaps someone in this thread will know.
I imagine birds, mice,rats etc will chew out nice homes for themselves
in the foam.
Another observation of this local clad.
No obvious keying, like expanded metal, to the surface of the foam
panels prior to the thin skim render so presumably liable to spalling
from thermal movements or wind cavitation at edges
John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
Has anyone had any experience with EWI systems?
In particular, systems designed to be over clad rather than finished
with a light weight render. I quite like the idea of insulation on the
wall, then battens, and something that looks like feather edge cladding
on that.
Not personally. AIUI insurers can be fussy about what the outside cladding is. If it's a timber frame construction they're happier if the cladding is mineral (brick, tile, etc) rather than wood or plastic. If the structural element is brick then I don't think they are so bothered.
Cedral (fibre cement weatherboard) looks interesting as a mineral
wood-effect cladding, although it would need some calculation as to how
heavy it is (probably heavier than wood)
On 06/03/2024 10:14, Theo wrote:
John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
Has anyone had any experience with EWI systems?
In particular, systems designed to be over clad rather than finished
with a light weight render. I quite like the idea of insulation on the
wall, then battens, and something that looks like feather edge cladding
on that.
Not personally. AIUI insurers can be fussy about what the outside cladding is. If it's a timber frame construction they're happier if the cladding is mineral (brick, tile, etc) rather than wood or plastic. If the structural element is brick then I don't think they are so bothered.
Cedral (fibre cement weatherboard) looks interesting as a mineral wood-effect cladding, although it would need some calculation as to how heavy it is (probably heavier than wood)
Yup that was one of the options... a bit of searching has turned up
Hardi plank and Cembrit plank as other (slightly thinner) options.
You need 1.75 boards per sq m, and each board is 11.2kg, so ~20kg/m^2
John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 06/03/2024 10:14, Theo wrote:
John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
Has anyone had any experience with EWI systems?
In particular, systems designed to be over clad rather than finished
with a light weight render. I quite like the idea of insulation on the >>>> wall, then battens, and something that looks like feather edge cladding >>>> on that.
Not personally. AIUI insurers can be fussy about what the outside cladding >>> is. If it's a timber frame construction they're happier if the cladding is >>> mineral (brick, tile, etc) rather than wood or plastic. If the structural >>> element is brick then I don't think they are so bothered.
Cedral (fibre cement weatherboard) looks interesting as a mineral
wood-effect cladding, although it would need some calculation as to how
heavy it is (probably heavier than wood)
Yup that was one of the options... a bit of searching has turned up
Hardi plank and Cembrit plank as other (slightly thinner) options.
Interesting... the Cembrit plank appears to now be SwissPearl plank: https://www.swisspearl.com/en-uk/products/facade/swisspearl-plank-original
Cedral and SwissPearl have free sample ordering. James Hardie is £5.47 for 3:
https://www.jameshardie.co.uk/en/cladding/hardieplank
I notice the SwissPearl is not coloured through, it's painted. So perhaps could be in need of touch up in future years (but much less than wood). Not sure about the others.
You need 1.75 boards per sq m, and each board is 11.2kg, so ~20kg/m^2
Not too bad... Suppose it depends on how well attached your battens are.
(if replacing existing timber)
On 6 Mar 2024 at 00:33:59 GMT, John Rumm wrote:
Has anyone had any experience with EWI systems?
In particular, systems designed to be over clad rather than finished
with a light weight render. I quite like the idea of insulation on the
wall, then battens, and something that looks like feather edge cladding
on that.
FWIW, just had a rough estimate for an 8m x 7m wall, about £11,500, using brick slips to keep the appearance of the original. Apparently one of the big things to think about is extending the overhang of the roof 6" or so.
On 07/03/2024 18:16, Theo wrote:
John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 06/03/2024 10:14, Theo wrote:
John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
Has anyone had any experience with EWI systems?
In particular, systems designed to be over clad rather than finished >>>>> with a light weight render. I quite like the idea of insulation on the >>>>> wall, then battens, and something that looks like feather edge
cladding
on that.
Not personally. AIUI insurers can be fussy about what the outside
cladding
is. If it's a timber frame construction they're happier if the
cladding is
mineral (brick, tile, etc) rather than wood or plastic. If the
structural
element is brick then I don't think they are so bothered.
Cedral (fibre cement weatherboard) looks interesting as a mineral
wood-effect cladding, although it would need some calculation as to how >>>> heavy it is (probably heavier than wood)
Yup that was one of the options... a bit of searching has turned up
Hardi plank and Cembrit plank as other (slightly thinner) options.
Interesting... the Cembrit plank appears to now be SwissPearl plank:
https://www.swisspearl.com/en-uk/products/facade/swisspearl-plank-original >>
Cedral and SwissPearl have free sample ordering. James Hardie is £5.47
for
3:
https://www.jameshardie.co.uk/en/cladding/hardieplank
Yup might be worth getting some to have a look...
I notice the SwissPearl is not coloured through, it's painted. So
perhaps
could be in need of touch up in future years (but much less than
wood). Not
sure about the others.
You need 1.75 boards per sq m, and each board is 11.2kg, so ~20kg/m^2
Not too bad... Suppose it depends on how well attached your battens are. >> (if replacing existing timber)
I will probably be starting with a recently de-rendered brick wall[1],
so the plan was a rigid PIR/PU foil faced foam board, then 50x38
tanalised battens on 600 centres on top of that. Planks fitted to the battens. So it should be fairly sturdy.
Ironically, I was expecting the insulation to be the expensive bit - but
in reality that is not too bad bought in bulk. Covering it with
something however seems quite pricey!
On 07/03/2024 18:37, John Rumm wrote:
On 07/03/2024 18:16, Theo wrote:FYI the cheapest place I know of for insulation is https://www.secondsandco.co.uk/ - I have no connection, except as a
John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 06/03/2024 10:14, Theo wrote:
John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
Has anyone had any experience with EWI systems?
In particular, systems designed to be over clad rather than finished >>>>>> with a light weight render. I quite like the idea of insulation on >>>>>> the
wall, then battens, and something that looks like feather edge
cladding
on that.
Not personally. AIUI insurers can be fussy about what the outside
cladding
is. If it's a timber frame construction they're happier if the
cladding is
mineral (brick, tile, etc) rather than wood or plastic. If the
structural
element is brick then I don't think they are so bothered.
Cedral (fibre cement weatherboard) looks interesting as a mineral
wood-effect cladding, although it would need some calculation as to
how
heavy it is (probably heavier than wood)
Yup that was one of the options... a bit of searching has turned up
Hardi plank and Cembrit plank as other (slightly thinner) options.
Interesting... the Cembrit plank appears to now be SwissPearl plank:
https://www.swisspearl.com/en-uk/products/facade/swisspearl-plank-original >>>
Cedral and SwissPearl have free sample ordering. James Hardie is
£5.47 for
3:
https://www.jameshardie.co.uk/en/cladding/hardieplank
Yup might be worth getting some to have a look...
I notice the SwissPearl is not coloured through, it's painted. So
perhaps
could be in need of touch up in future years (but much less than
wood). Not
sure about the others.
You need 1.75 boards per sq m, and each board is 11.2kg, so ~20kg/m^2
Not too bad... Suppose it depends on how well attached your battens
are.
(if replacing existing timber)
I will probably be starting with a recently de-rendered brick wall[1],
so the plan was a rigid PIR/PU foil faced foam board, then 50x38
tanalised battens on 600 centres on top of that. Planks fitted to the
battens. So it should be fairly sturdy.
Ironically, I was expecting the insulation to be the expensive bit -
but in reality that is not too bad bought in bulk. Covering it with
something however seems quite pricey!
satisfied customer.
On 07/03/2024 23:41, nothanks@aolbin.com wrote:
FYI the cheapest place I know of for insulation is https://www.secondsandco.co.uk/ - I have no connection, except as a satisfied customer.
We used to have a very good discount place locally, Last time I used
them they did me a van load of 50mm boards for about £350. Enough to do
4 walls and the vaulted ceiling of my workshop. Alas they closed a few
years ago...
As it happens I did look at Seconds and Co earlier, their "bulk pack"
deal for fifty 60mm boards was just under £1k, which is significantly
better than the normal "retail" prices (which would be 2.5 to 3 times
more).
John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:Presteigne is only "just" in Wales ;-)
On 07/03/2024 23:41, nothanks@aolbin.com wrote:
FYI the cheapest place I know of for insulation is
https://www.secondsandco.co.uk/ - I have no connection, except as a
satisfied customer.
We used to have a very good discount place locally, Last time I used
them they did me a van load of 50mm boards for about £350. Enough to do
4 walls and the vaulted ceiling of my workshop. Alas they closed a few
years ago...
As it happens I did look at Seconds and Co earlier, their "bulk pack"
deal for fifty 60mm boards was just under £1k, which is significantly
better than the normal "retail" prices (which would be 2.5 to 3 times
more).
There's a few of them about - CBA to dig up the details but search 'insulation
seconds'. There's one in somewhere like Colchester and one in Yorkshire,
and I think one of them has a branch in Scotland.
Given insulation's bulk the usual issue is transport costs - Seconds&Co are in Wales, so if you're in East Anglia or Scotland it gets pricey.
I believe some of them are nearby the factories where the make the
insulation - I think it's Kingspan in Wales and Celotex in Colchester - so makes sense to get it from your local factory.
Theo
On 08/03/2024 12:39, Theo wrote:
John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 07/03/2024 23:41, nothanks@aolbin.com wrote:
FYI the cheapest place I know of for insulation is
https://www.secondsandco.co.uk/ - I have no connection, except as a
satisfied customer.
We used to have a very good discount place locally, Last time I used
them they did me a van load of 50mm boards for about £350. Enough to do >> 4 walls and the vaulted ceiling of my workshop. Alas they closed a few
years ago...
As it happens I did look at Seconds and Co earlier, their "bulk pack"
deal for fifty 60mm boards was just under £1k, which is significantly
better than the normal "retail" prices (which would be 2.5 to 3 times
more).
There's a few of them about - CBA to dig up the details but search 'insulation
seconds'. There's one in somewhere like Colchester and one in Yorkshire, and I think one of them has a branch in Scotland.
Given insulation's bulk the usual issue is transport costs - Seconds&Co are in Wales, so if you're in East Anglia or Scotland it gets pricey.Presteigne is only "just" in Wales ;-)
I believe some of them are nearby the factories where the make the insulation - I think it's Kingspan in Wales and Celotex in Colchester - so makes sense to get it from your local factory.
I believe some of them are nearby the factories where the make the
insulation - I think it's Kingspan in Wales and Celotex in Colchester - so >>> makes sense to get it from your local factory.
This is the Colchester one:
https://economicinsulation.com/
also:
https://www.insulationsouthwales.com/
and it's Seconds who have a branch in Scotland: https://www.secondsandcoscotland.co.uk/
and Yorkshire (both look a bit defunct?): https://www.facebook.com/secondsandconorthern/
I was expecting the insulation to be the expensive bit - but in reality
that is not too bad bought in bulk.
John Rumm wrote:
I was expecting the insulation to be the expensive bit - but in reality that is not too bad bought in bulk.
Anyone know if Knauf has split into two companies/divisions, e.g. one
doing PIR the other doing rockwool?
I thought I'd previously used their U-value calculator for a new flat
roof, but now it only seems to offer rockwool, rather than PIR, which
results in an insulation depth of 220mm vs 140mm for PIR to achieve 0.16U
Andy Burns wrote:
Anyone know if Knauf has split into two companies/divisions, e.g. one
doing PIR the other doing rockwool?
No idea, but often those kind of websites aren't very good at telling you
the full range.
I thought I'd previously used their U-value calculator for a new flat
roof, but now it only seems to offer rockwool, rather than PIR, which
results in an insulation depth of 220mm vs 140mm for PIR to achieve 0.16U
I'd use https://www.ubakus.de/ in demo mode for a stackup calculator. PIR is in as there as 'PUR' which I think is the same, and they have rockwool.
Theo wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:
Anyone know if Knauf has split into two companies/divisions, e.g. one
doing PIR the other doing rockwool?
No idea, but often those kind of websites aren't very good at telling you the full range.
Not just the U calculator, the whole Knauf website has no PIR listed
under products (except for plasterboard/PIR sandwich)
I thought I'd previously used their U-value calculator for a new flat
roof, but now it only seems to offer rockwool, rather than PIR, which
results in an insulation depth of 220mm vs 140mm for PIR to achieve 0.16U
I'd use https://www.ubakus.de/ in demo mode for a stackup calculator. PIR is
in as there as 'PUR' which I think is the same, and they have rockwool.
That's pretty good, shame my German isn't (yes firefox tranlate helps)
I'm surprised the various single-ply membranes are there, but disabled,
you'd think he could persuade (at least some of) the manufacturers to
pay in order to have their products promoted?
Maybe worth paying for a couple of months ...
Theo wrote:
I'd use <https://www.ubakus.de> in demo mode for a stackup calculator.
Maybe worth paying for a couple of months ...
Probably worth doing if you have a project on the go, rather than just kicking tyres on newsgroups.
On 11/03/2024 09:07, Theo wrote:
Probably worth doing if you have a project on the go, rather than just kicking tyres on newsgroups.
I would have though that a spreadsheet and a bit of DIY would be
adequate in most cases:
https://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Heat_loss
Most PIR board are very similar to the "standard" numbers IME, and you
can usually get specific ones from the manufacturers site if needs be.
(and installation details will matter far more than a 0.02 u value difference)
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
John Rumm wrote:
I was expecting the insulation to be the expensive bit - but in reality
that is not too bad bought in bulk.
Anyone know if Knauf has split into two companies/divisions, e.g. one
doing PIR the other doing rockwool?
No idea, but often those kind of websites aren't very good at telling you
the full range.
I thought I'd previously used their U-value calculator for a new flat
roof, but now it only seems to offer rockwool, rather than PIR, which
results in an insulation depth of 220mm vs 140mm for PIR to achieve 0.16U
I'd use https://www.ubakus.de/ in demo mode for a stackup calculator. PIR is in as there as 'PUR' which I think is the same, and they have rockwool.
John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> wrote:
On 11/03/2024 09:07, Theo wrote:
Probably worth doing if you have a project on the go, rather than just
kicking tyres on newsgroups.
I would have though that a spreadsheet and a bit of DIY would be
adequate in most cases:
https://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Heat_loss
Most PIR board are very similar to the "standard" numbers IME, and you
can usually get specific ones from the manufacturers site if needs be.
(and installation details will matter far more than a 0.02 u value
difference)
U-value calcs are easy, but moisture calcs less so. ubakus will tell you if you're going to have condensation buildup in the middle of your stackup, which is something good to know when selecting materials. It's not just the permeability of the materials but the temperature at that point in the
stack, which is a function of the outside temps, airflow and the U value -
ie which of condensation and drying processes will win.
RJH wrote:
OOI, do you know how to input an air cavity?
various, stationary air (unventilated)
or other materials with the same "wind" icon.
OOI, do you know how to input an air cavity?
On 06/03/2024 13:16, N_Cook wrote:
On 06/03/2024 09:16, N_Cook wrote:
On 06/03/2024 00:33, John Rumm wrote:
Has anyone had any experience with EWI systems?
In particular, systems designed to be over clad rather than finished
with a light weight render. I quite like the idea of insulation on the >>>> wall, then battens, and something that looks like feather edge cladding >>>> on that.
Someone just down the road has had some put in.
The builders are never there when I walk past and I want to ask what the >>> fire suppression character of the large foam blocks are, under that
light skim of render. Wellat a distance it looked like foam rather than
rockwool. Perhaps someone in this thread will know.
I imagine birds, mice,rats etc will chew out nice homes for themselves
in the foam.
Another observation of this local clad.
No obvious keying, like expanded metal, to the surface of the foam
panels prior to the thin skim render so presumably liable to spalling
from thermal movements or wind cavitation at edges
The window reveals here have just been thin skim rendered over.
No eavesdrop created prior to the cladding so the months worth of rain
in the last week must have gone down between the cladding and the
original brickwork, clever eh.
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