1. Forum
  2. Usenet
  3. UK.D-I-Y

  • TOT: IM1 Odysseus lunar lander.

    From Graham.@21:1/5 to All on Fri Feb 23 15:18:51 2024
    Lots of optomistic noises about the success of this mission being
    made by the various stakeholders, not to mention the press. From
    my perspective the craft appears to have landed in a place where
    its antennas are largly shielded from Earth. Goonhilly reported a
    weak signal, not sure about other larger dishes around the world.
    Normally an image taken by the spacecraft on the ground would
    have been released, but nothing.

    tl:dr, doesn't look too promising.
    --

    Graham.
    %Profound_observation%

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Sid.@21:1/5 to All on Fri Feb 23 16:41:06 2024
    Yes you are correct, the moon is in the way.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jethro_uk@21:1/5 to Graham. on Fri Feb 23 18:01:49 2024
    On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 15:18:51 +0000, Graham. wrote:

    Lots of optomistic noises about the success of this mission being
    made by the various stakeholders, not to mention the press. From my
    perspective the craft appears to have landed in a place where its
    antennas are largly shielded from Earth. Goonhilly reported a weak
    signal, not sure about other larger dishes around the world.
    Normally an image taken by the spacecraft on the ground would have been
    released, but nothing.

    tl:dr, doesn't look too promising.

    Given the UK has never - and probably never will - achieve a soft lunar landing, I am very reserved in any criticisms.

    Same for the recent Japanese effort.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From alan_m@21:1/5 to Graham. on Fri Feb 23 18:10:30 2024
    On 23/02/2024 15:18, Graham. wrote:
    Lots of optomistic noises about the success of this mission being
    made by the various stakeholders, not to mention the press. From
    my perspective the craft appears to have landed in a place where
    its antennas are largly shielded from Earth. Goonhilly reported a
    weak signal, not sure about other larger dishes around the world.
    Normally an image taken by the spacecraft on the ground would
    have been released, but nothing.

    tl:dr, doesn't look too promising.

    Possibly deliberate as one of the aims is looking for (water) ice.

    --
    mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Graham.@21:1/5 to All on Fri Feb 23 19:41:07 2024

    tl:dr, doesn't look too promising.

    Possibly deliberate as one of the aims is looking for (water) ice.

    I see. One gient leap for Schrödinger's cat.

    --
    Graham.
    %Profound_observation%

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Natural Philosopher@21:1/5 to Graham. on Sat Feb 24 08:40:11 2024
    On 23/02/2024 19:41, Graham. wrote:
    One gient leap for Schrödinger's cat.

    Gient?

    "Gient is a global supplier of medical waste autoclave systems
    established in 1995 in Chongqing, China."

    --
    It’s easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled. Mark Twain

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul@21:1/5 to Graham. on Sat Feb 24 05:34:41 2024
    On 2/23/2024 10:18 AM, Graham. wrote:
    Lots of optomistic noises about the success of this mission being
    made by the various stakeholders, not to mention the press. From
    my perspective the craft appears to have landed in a place where
    its antennas are largly shielded from Earth. Goonhilly reported a
    weak signal, not sure about other larger dishes around the world.
    Normally an image taken by the spacecraft on the ground would
    have been released, but nothing.

    tl:dr, doesn't look too promising.


    It's one weird project.

    The design life is 7 days. It has 9 days left.
    (Will run out of solar to recharge battery)

    Whether it can take a picture, may depend on
    what datarate the antenna situation can manage.

    Paul

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From alan_m@21:1/5 to Paul on Sat Feb 24 15:23:45 2024
    On 24/02/2024 10:34, Paul wrote:
    On 2/23/2024 10:18 AM, Graham. wrote:
    Lots of optomistic noises about the success of this mission being
    made by the various stakeholders, not to mention the press. From
    my perspective the craft appears to have landed in a place where
    its antennas are largly shielded from Earth. Goonhilly reported a
    weak signal, not sure about other larger dishes around the world.
    Normally an image taken by the spacecraft on the ground would
    have been released, but nothing.

    tl:dr, doesn't look too promising.


    It's one weird project.

    The design life is 7 days. It has 9 days left.
    (Will run out of solar to recharge battery)

    As I mentioned before, one of the goals is to search for water (ice)
    which if present on the surface of the moon will only be found in the
    deep shadows in the craters - where the sun never gets to.


    --
    mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul@21:1/5 to All on Sun Feb 25 09:51:31 2024
    On 2/24/2024 10:23 AM, alan_m wrote:
    On 24/02/2024 10:34, Paul wrote:
    On 2/23/2024 10:18 AM, Graham.  wrote:
      Lots of optomistic noises about the success of this mission being
      made by the various stakeholders, not to mention the press. From
      my perspective the craft appears to have landed in a place where
      its antennas are largly shielded from Earth. Goonhilly reported a
      weak signal, not sure about other larger dishes around the world.
      Normally an image taken by the spacecraft on the ground would
      have been released, but nothing.

    tl:dr,  doesn't look too promising.


    It's one weird project.

    The design life is 7 days. It has 9 days left.
    (Will run out of solar to recharge battery)

    As I mentioned before, one of the goals is to search for water (ice) which if present on the surface of the moon will only be found in the deep shadows in the craters - where the sun never gets to.



    The "shape" of the machine, it's CG, seems
    to be designed for the lab they were in,
    not for a real live adventure with real live boulders.

    Some device designs assume they will fall over, and they
    have kit included in the design, to right them after landing.
    Then, say, unfurl the solar panels.

    This machine shows a great ability to right itself.
    And the funny part of the videos, is when the robot
    pauses and is doing path planning on its internal processor.
    While some of the moves involve applying dynamic corrections
    in real time, when the device is in a stable attitude, it
    takes its sweet time coming up with the next move sequence.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4vGGHeYtbg

    What minimal set of limbs could you attach to a probe, so it can right itself ?

    If it was a Weeble, you wouldn't care.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weeble

    Paul

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Andrew@21:1/5 to All on Sun Feb 25 15:40:22 2024
    On 23/02/2024 18:01, Jethro_uk wrote:
    On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 15:18:51 +0000, Graham. wrote:

    Lots of optomistic noises about the success of this mission being
    made by the various stakeholders, not to mention the press. From my
    perspective the craft appears to have landed in a place where its
    antennas are largly shielded from Earth. Goonhilly reported a weak
    signal, not sure about other larger dishes around the world.
    Normally an image taken by the spacecraft on the ground would have been
    released, but nothing.

    tl:dr, doesn't look too promising.

    Given the UK has never - and probably never will - achieve a soft lunar landing, I am very reserved in any criticisms.

    Tardis ??

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From alan_m@21:1/5 to All on Sun Feb 25 18:40:19 2024
    On 23/02/2024 18:01, Jethro_uk wrote:
    On Fri, 23 Feb 2024 15:18:51 +0000, Graham. wrote:

    Lots of optomistic noises about the success of this mission being
    made by the various stakeholders, not to mention the press. From my
    perspective the craft appears to have landed in a place where its
    antennas are largly shielded from Earth. Goonhilly reported a weak
    signal, not sure about other larger dishes around the world.
    Normally an image taken by the spacecraft on the ground would have been
    released, but nothing.

    tl:dr, doesn't look too promising.

    Given the UK has never - and probably never will - achieve a soft lunar landing, I am very reserved in any criticisms.

    Didn't the UK manage to get a double decker London bus to the moon. I'm
    sure that I read about it in one of the newspapers at the time.


    --
    mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul@21:1/5 to Paul on Mon Feb 26 05:57:39 2024
    On 2/25/2024 9:51 AM, Paul wrote:
    On 2/24/2024 10:23 AM, alan_m wrote:
    On 24/02/2024 10:34, Paul wrote:
    On 2/23/2024 10:18 AM, Graham.  wrote:
      Lots of optomistic noises about the success of this mission being
      made by the various stakeholders, not to mention the press. From
      my perspective the craft appears to have landed in a place where
      its antennas are largly shielded from Earth. Goonhilly reported a
      weak signal, not sure about other larger dishes around the world.
      Normally an image taken by the spacecraft on the ground would
      have been released, but nothing.

    tl:dr,  doesn't look too promising.


    It's one weird project.

    The design life is 7 days. It has 9 days left.
    (Will run out of solar to recharge battery)

    As I mentioned before, one of the goals is to search for water (ice) which if present on the surface of the moon will only be found in the deep shadows in the craters - where the sun never gets to.



    The "shape" of the machine, it's CG, seems
    to be designed for the lab they were in,
    not for a real live adventure with real live boulders.

    Some device designs assume they will fall over, and they
    have kit included in the design, to right them after landing.
    Then, say, unfurl the solar panels.

    This machine shows a great ability to right itself.
    And the funny part of the videos, is when the robot
    pauses and is doing path planning on its internal processor.
    While some of the moves involve applying dynamic corrections
    in real time, when the device is in a stable attitude, it
    takes its sweet time coming up with the next move sequence.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4vGGHeYtbg

    What minimal set of limbs could you attach to a probe, so it can right itself ?

    If it was a Weeble, you wouldn't care.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weeble

    Paul


    On page 6 here, there is mention of a mission 58 years ago, with
    a lower center of gravity.

    https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/02/a-little-us-company-makes-history-by-landing-on-the-moon-but-questions-remain/?comments=1&comments-page=6

    This series.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surveyor_program

    *******

    And the datarate from the Odysseus could be 2.5Kbit/sec
    (via the deep space dish or whatever), well below the
    design rate. You can't send much of a picture at that rate.
    Any other science would have priority.

    And this is a picture of the junk orbiting the moon
    right now. Not likely to be sporting large dish antennas :-)

    https://www.isro.gov.in/media_isro/image/index/Lunar_Orbiting_Spacecraft1.jpg?sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwig2fGm6ciEAxXQADQIHb-HAy4Q_B16BAgJEAI

    NASA likes to take pictures of the satellites.

    https://science.nasa.gov/mission/lro/

    Paul

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Graham.@21:1/5 to All on Mon Feb 26 11:31:55 2024
    I've been waiting for Scott Manley's analysis.

    https://youtu.be/wynBeg7BYr0?si=D-2QHIWyK2tjQnNQ

    --

    Graham.
    %Profound_observation%

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From alan_m@21:1/5 to Graham. on Mon Feb 26 13:03:28 2024
    On 26/02/2024 11:31, Graham. wrote:
    I've been waiting for Scott Manley's analysis.

    https://youtu.be/wynBeg7BYr0?si=D-2QHIWyK2tjQnNQ


    Pity about the 5 minute embedded advert at the start (and yes I do have
    ad blocker)

    --
    mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From alan_m@21:1/5 to All on Mon Feb 26 13:05:56 2024
    On 26/02/2024 13:03, alan_m wrote:
    On 26/02/2024 11:31, Graham. wrote:
      I've been waiting for Scott Manley's analysis.

    https://youtu.be/wynBeg7BYr0?si=D-2QHIWyK2tjQnNQ


    Pity about the 5 minute embedded advert at the start (and yes I do have
    ad blocker)


    Try instead
    https://youtu.be/wynBeg7BYr0


    --
    mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul@21:1/5 to All on Mon Feb 26 12:15:35 2024
    On 2/26/2024 8:05 AM, alan_m wrote:
    On 26/02/2024 13:03, alan_m wrote:
    On 26/02/2024 11:31, Graham. wrote:
      I've been waiting for Scott Manley's analysis.

    https://youtu.be/wynBeg7BYr0?si=D-2QHIWyK2tjQnNQ


    Pity about the 5 minute embedded advert at the start (and yes I do have ad blocker)


    Try instead
    https://youtu.be/wynBeg7BYr0

    You can see from Manley's analysis, it's an all-or-nothing
    design philosophy. A high CG. A requirement to do antenna
    pointing, using the nav capability of the main engine.
    It's basically a demo of a nav system... that didn't nav.

    And they reason I say that, is the set of assumptions is
    frankly ridiculous. It's a brittle design, with no backup
    systems. If this is your first craft, it should be hedging
    its bets.

    The only reason this mission got as far as it did,
    was the chance occurrence of one of the payloads
    provided by a third party, just happened to be a
    nav proxy. And the staff were fast enough at coding,
    to tie it in. Are the dynamics of the NASA lidar
    (latency) good enough to replace their native system ?
    Maybe the reason the roll was uncorrected, is the
    loop response wasn't there.

    If you're a rocket company, "telemetry sells shares".
    You must have an antenna that works, "even if the
    thing catches fire". And if that means incorporating
    features to get the vehicle upright, that's basically
    a dimension of antenna steering.

    Paul

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)