Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:

Claris Emailer 1.1v2 refused to send a message and gave the following
error:

~~~~~~~
Sending mail
Sending 1 of 1
Sending Message "Re: Pre-amp / switch box"
** 552 Message contains bare LF and is violating 822.bis section
2.3

~~~~~~~~~
I noticed that there was a non-printing character in part of the
previous message that I had quoted, so I removed it and the message was
then sent correctly. This has happened before when replying to Hotmail messages, but this time it was to an Outlook user.

How can the original text get through to me in the first place if it
contains 'violating' characters and what is 'bare LF" ?

LF = linefeed, ASCII char 10
CR = carriage return, ASCII char 13
822 = probably RFC822, an old specification for email transmission
822.bis = not sure, maybe RFC2822, a newer specification?
section 2.3 = doesn't exist in RFC822, but does in RFC2822:

"2.3. Body

The body of a message is simply lines of US-ASCII characters. The
only two limitations on the body are as follows:

- CR and LF MUST only occur together as CRLF; they MUST NOT appear
independently in the body.

- Lines of characters in the body MUST be limited to 998 characters,
and SHOULD be limited to 78 characters, excluding the CRLF.

Note: As was stated earlier, there are other standards documents,
specifically the MIME documents [RFC2045, RFC2046, RFC2048, RFC2049]
that extend this standard to allow for different sorts of message
bodies. Again, these mechanisms are beyond the scope of this
document.
"

Mail clients should store messages however they want and then transform to
CR LF when sending. Windows stores line endings with CR followed by LF, Unix/OSX just uses LF on its own. It seems like classic Macs use CR alone.

Maybe Claris doesn't do this and assumes the file stored on disc will use CR
LF line endings, or will only translate CR line endings and not ones with LF?

Theo

refs:
https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc822.txt https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc2822.txt

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Liz Tuddenham wrote:

Claris Emailer 1.1v2 refused to send a message and gave the following
error:

~~~~~~~
Sending mail
Sending 1 of 1
Sending Message "Re: Pre-amp / switch box"
** 552 Message contains bare LF and is violating 822.bis section
2.3

~~~~~~~~~
I noticed that there was a non-printing character in part of the
previous message that I had quoted, so I removed it and the message was
then sent correctly. This has happened before when replying to Hotmail messages, but this time it was to an Outlook user.

How can the original text get through to me in the first place if it
contains 'violating' characters and what is 'bare LF" ?

Most line ends are <CR><LF> - from the days of manual typewriters.

Many unix systems use only <LF> ( equivalent to /n rather than /r/n )

S*p*a*m filters look for single returns or linefeeds and may block such messages.

When you receive a message it is the filter on your (or your ISP's)
system that checks it.

When you send a message it is the recipient's system that applies the
filter, but a rejection response (552) is reported to the sending
program, so Claris Emailer shows you that response and explains it in
English. The two filters are behaving differently.


--
Graham J

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Claris Emailer 1.1v2 refused to send a message and gave the following
error:

~~~~~~~
Sending mail
Sending 1 of 1
Sending Message "Re: Pre-amp / switch box"
** 552 Message contains bare LF and is violating 822.bis section
2.3

~~~~~~~~~
I noticed that there was a non-printing character in part of the
previous message that I had quoted, so I removed it and the message was
then sent correctly. This has happened before when replying to Hotmail messages, but this time it was to an Outlook user.

How can the original text get through to me in the first place if it
contains 'violating' characters and what is 'bare LF" ?


--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

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Liz Tuddenham wrote:

[snip]

That explains it. I wonder what has changed, because I have been using
the same system for over 20 years and this has only recently started happening. It also seems like a singularly unimportant reason for
rejecting an e-mail.

S*p*a*m filters are not that clever. But if an unimportant reason can
be applied cheaply it ticks a box.


--
Graham J

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Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:

When you receive a message it is the filter on your (or your ISP's)
system that checks it.

When you send a message it is the recipient's system that applies the
filter, but a rejection response (552) is reported to the sending
program, so Claris Emailer shows you that response and explains it in English. The two filters are behaving differently.

It seems to be coming from qmail (run by the ISP), which is objecting to
emails send by Claris:

https://cr.yp.to/docs/smtplf.html

"Claris Emailer: Reported 19980613. No information on how it can be fixed."

and I'm guessing there are no newer versions of Claris?

Best I can suggest is running your own email server in the middle that
cleans things up. Would probably need to run it on OS X or maybe a Pi or similar. I don't have a suggestion of what software would do the necessary.

(it looks like RFC2822 came out in 2001, so perhaps 822bis refers to it in draft form in the 90s. It looks like 2822 added the change 'free CR and LF
not allowed' which was technically true in 822 but not so clear)

Theo

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Graham J <nobody@nowhere.co.uk> wrote:

Liz Tuddenham wrote:

Claris Emailer 1.1v2 refused to send a message and gave the following error:

~~~~~~~
Sending mail
Sending 1 of 1
Sending Message "Re: Pre-amp / switch box"
** 552 Message contains bare LF and is violating 822.bis section
2.3

~~~~~~~~~
I noticed that there was a non-printing character in part of the
previous message that I had quoted, so I removed it and the message was then sent correctly. This has happened before when replying to Hotmail messages, but this time it was to an Outlook user.

How can the original text get through to me in the first place if it contains 'violating' characters and what is 'bare LF" ?

Most line ends are <CR><LF> - from the days of manual typewriters.

Many unix systems use only <LF> ( equivalent to /n rather than /r/n )

S*p*a*m filters look for single returns or linefeeds and may block such messages.

When you receive a message it is the filter on your (or your ISP's)
system that checks it.

When you send a message it is the recipient's system that applies the
filter, but a rejection response (552) is reported to the sending
program, so Claris Emailer shows you that response and explains it in English. The two filters are behaving differently.

That explains it. I wonder what has changed, because I have been using
the same system for over 20 years and this has only recently started
happening. It also seems like a singularly unimportant reason for
rejecting an e-mail.


--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:

That explains it. I wonder what has changed, because I have been using
the same system for over 20 years and this has only recently started happening. It also seems like a singularly unimportant reason for
rejecting an e-mail.

Something changed at your ISP end, maybe they switched software to the qmail mailserver. The software is refusing to take things that are in its opinion malformed, which is within its rights - these days anything malformed
screams spammer.

Maybe you could try another ISP and hope they have different software?
These days you really need to be sending from the mailserver that is
registered on your domain, so it likely means taking your mail service elsewhere.

It looks like poppyrecords.co.uk (on the receive path anyway) is using
Postfix not qmail, so that might be ok:

$ telnet poppyrecords.co.uk 25
Trying 213.171.208.12...
Connected to poppyrecords.co.uk.
Escape character is '^]'.
220 distracted-carson.213-171-208-12.plesk.page ESMTP Postfix (Ubuntu)


Theo

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Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

[...]

These days you really need to be sending from the mailserver that is registered on your domain, so it likely means taking your mail service elsewhere.

I was using that but they 'updated' it and it won't accept e-mails from
Claris Emailer any more. It will still redirect them, so any sent from
my poppyrecords account are forwarded to Plusnet for sending.

--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

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