• Outlook fir Mac Now Free

    From Alan B@21:1/5 to All on Tue Mar 7 11:10:41 2023
    Can’t say this news particularly excites me ;-)

    <https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/outlook-blog/outlook-mac-for-all/ba-p/3757787>

    Now if Word and Excel were …. but then there’s always LibreOffice.

    --
    Cheers, Alan

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  • From Sara Merriman@21:1/5 to All on Tue Mar 7 13:13:48 2023
    On 7 Mar 2023 at 11:10:41 GMT, "Alan B" <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:

    Can’t say this news particularly excites me ;-)

    <https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/outlook-blog/outlook-mac-for-all/ba-p/3757787>

    Now if Word and Excel were …. but then there’s always LibreOffice.

    Ugh from MS in the comments: "The new Outlook for Mac is free to use, and ad-supported when using a non-licensed account."

    No thanks.
    --
    Spike is a sturdy birdy

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  • From nospam@21:1/5 to saramerriman@blueyonder.co.uk on Tue Mar 7 08:39:28 2023
    In article <gMGNL.3642095$miq3.1271397@fx02.ams4>, Sara Merriman <saramerriman@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

    Ugh from MS in the comments: "The new Outlook for Mac is free to use, and ad-supported when using a non-licensed account."

    blocking ads is easy.

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  • From Mark@21:1/5 to Alan B on Tue Mar 7 13:52:32 2023
    On 2023-03-07 11:10:41 +0000, Alan B said:

    Can’t say this news particularly excites me ;-)

    <https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/outlook-blog/outlook-mac-for-all/ba-p/3757787>


    Now if Word and Excel were …. but then there’s always LibreOffice.

    Re. Word - there's also <https://bean-osx.com/Bean.html> Not sure how compatible it is if you're exchcnaging docs with Word users, but it's
    been around a long time.
    --
    Cheers ... Mark

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  • From Bruce Horrocks@21:1/5 to nospam on Tue Mar 7 13:52:58 2023
    On 07/03/2023 13:39, nospam wrote:
    In article <gMGNL.3642095$miq3.1271397@fx02.ams4>, Sara Merriman <saramerriman@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:

    Ugh from MS in the comments: "The new Outlook for Mac is free to use, and
    ad-supported when using a non-licensed account."

    blocking ads is easy.

    Not installing Outlook is easier. ;-)
    --
    Bruce Horrocks
    Surrey, England

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  • From nospam@21:1/5 to Horrocks on Tue Mar 7 08:57:54 2023
    In article <06194b57-12aa-5038-84af-7be0f999fc0d@scorecrow.com>, Bruce
    Horrocks <07.013@scorecrow.com> wrote:

    Ugh from MS in the comments: "The new Outlook for Mac is free to use, and >> ad-supported when using a non-licensed account."

    blocking ads is easy.

    Not installing Outlook is easier. ;-)

    true.

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  • From nospam@21:1/5 to captain.blackl@gmail.com on Tue Mar 7 08:57:55 2023
    In article <tu7fiv$e6qb$1@dont-email.me>, Mark
    <captain.blackl@gmail.com> wrote:

    Now if Word and Excel were Š. but then there¹s always LibreOffice.

    Re. Word - there's also <https://bean-osx.com/Bean.html> Not sure how compatible it is if you're exchcnaging docs with Word users, but it's
    been around a long time.

    apple's text edit and pages supports word in most cases.

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  • From WolfFan@21:1/5 to All on Tue Mar 7 11:07:59 2023
    On Mar 7, 2023, Alan B wrote
    (in article<tu7m3t$f4h8$1@alanrichardbarker.eternal-september.org>):

    Mark <captain.blackl@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 2023-03-07 11:10:41 +0000, Alan B said:

    Can’t say this news particularly excites me ;-)

    <https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/outlook-blog/outlook-mac-for-all/ba
    -p/3757787>


    Now if Word and Excel were …. but then there’s always LibreOffice.

    Re. Word - there's also <https://bean-osx.com/Bean.html> Not sure how compatible it is if you're exchcnaging docs with Word users, but it's
    been around a long time.

    There are several alternatives to MS Orifice such as NeoOffice and FreeOffice.

    <https://www.neooffice.org/neojava/en/index.php>

    <https://www.freeoffice.com/en/>

    Pages, Numbers and Keynote are OK too and as nospam commented TextEdit can often cope with Word documents.

    Pages is excellent, and handles most word processing tasks as well or better than Word. It’s not 100% compatible, of course; Word for Mac isn’t 100% compatible with Word for Windows. It’s pretty good, though. Keynote is magnificent, better than PowerPoint for most purposes.

    Numbers stinks. Stay away. Stay far away. Excel kicks Numbers left, right,
    and sideways. It’s not close. Note that it’s better than the spreadsheet modules in LibreOffice. Frankly, the main reason to use Office is Excel.
    (Why, yes, I have been an Excel user since Excel v1 in 1985, why do you ask? I’ve been a Word user since 1984 and PowerPoint since 1988. I still say
    Pages and Keynote are more than adequate replacements, but Numbers is not. Apple needs a good email/calendaring system and a good low-end database...
    and to improve Numbers. If they do that, I, for one, would kiss Office goodbye.)

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  • From Alan B@21:1/5 to Mark on Tue Mar 7 15:43:57 2023
    Mark <captain.blackl@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 2023-03-07 11:10:41 +0000, Alan B said:

    Can’t say this news particularly excites me ;-)

    <https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/outlook-blog/outlook-mac-for-all/ba-p/3757787>


    Now if Word and Excel were …. but then there’s always LibreOffice.

    Re. Word - there's also <https://bean-osx.com/Bean.html> Not sure how compatible it is if you're exchcnaging docs with Word users, but it's
    been around a long time.

    There are several alternatives to MS Orifice such as NeoOffice and
    FreeOffice.

    <https://www.neooffice.org/neojava/en/index.php>

    <https://www.freeoffice.com/en/>

    Pages, Numbers and Keynote are OK too and as nospam commented TextEdit can often cope with Word documents.

    --
    Cheers, Alan

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  • From nospam@21:1/5 to WolfFan on Tue Mar 7 11:45:59 2023
    In article <0001HW.29B798DF0202D073700006FD738F@news.supernews.com>,
    WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:

    Word for Mac isn¹t 100%
    compatible with Word for Windows.

    word isn't 100% compatible with a different version of itself on the
    same platform.

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  • From Fred@21:1/5 to Joerg Lorenz on Tue Mar 7 18:02:16 2023
    In message <tu7sno$1njk6$1@solani.org>
    Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:

    Am 07.03.23 um 17:07 schrieb WolfFan:
    On Mar 7, 2023, Alan B wrote
    Pages, Numbers and Keynote are OK too and as nospam commented
    TextEdit can often cope with Word documents.

    Pages is excellent, and handles most word processing tasks as well or better than Word. It’s not 100% compatible, of course; Word for Mac isn’t 100% compatible with Word for Windows. It’s pretty good, though. Keynote is magnificent, better than PowerPoint for most purposes.

    For Christ's sake use well documented Open Source formats and software!
    The proposals above are all proprietary crap and in 20-30 years from now nobody can open this digital mortuary.


    Tablets for sale! Get your tablets here! No plug required.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Joerg Lorenz@21:1/5 to All on Tue Mar 7 18:36:56 2023
    Am 07.03.23 um 17:07 schrieb WolfFan:
    On Mar 7, 2023, Alan B wrote
    Pages, Numbers and Keynote are OK too and as nospam commented TextEdit can >> often cope with Word documents.

    Pages is excellent, and handles most word processing tasks as well or better than Word. It’s not 100% compatible, of course; Word for Mac isn’t 100% compatible with Word for Windows. It’s pretty good, though. Keynote is magnificent, better than PowerPoint for most purposes.

    For Christ's sake use well documented Open Source formats and software!
    The proposals above are all proprietary crap and in 20-30 years from now
    nobody can open this digital mortuary.

    --
    Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Chris@21:1/5 to Sara Merriman on Tue Mar 7 19:52:48 2023
    Sara Merriman <saramerriman@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
    On 7 Mar 2023 at 11:10:41 GMT, "Alan B" <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:

    Can’t say this news particularly excites me ;-)

    <https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/outlook-blog/outlook-mac-for-all/ba-p/3757787>

    Now if Word and Excel were …. but then there’s always LibreOffice.

    Ugh from MS in the comments: "The new Outlook for Mac is free to use, and ad-supported when using a non-licensed account."

    Also "new" Outlook is bad. It may look nice(r) but several things are
    missing. I had to go back.

    No thanks.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Chris@21:1/5 to Joerg Lorenz on Tue Mar 7 19:57:31 2023
    Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
    Am 07.03.23 um 17:07 schrieb WolfFan:
    On Mar 7, 2023, Alan B wrote
    Pages, Numbers and Keynote are OK too and as nospam commented TextEdit can >>> often cope with Word documents.

    Pages is excellent, and handles most word processing tasks as well or better >> than Word. It’s not 100% compatible, of course; Word for Mac isn’t 100% >> compatible with Word for Windows. It’s pretty good, though. Keynote is
    magnificent, better than PowerPoint for most purposes.

    For Christ's sake use well documented Open Source formats and software!
    The proposals above are all proprietary crap and in 20-30 years from now nobody can open this digital mortuary.

    docx, pptx, xlsx *are* open standards ;)

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  • From Graeme Wall@21:1/5 to Fred on Tue Mar 7 20:48:10 2023
    On 07/03/2023 18:02, Fred wrote:
    In message <tu7sno$1njk6$1@solani.org>
    Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:

    Am 07.03.23 um 17:07 schrieb WolfFan:
    On Mar 7, 2023, Alan B wrote
    Pages, Numbers and Keynote are OK too and as nospam commented
    TextEdit can often cope with Word documents.

    Pages is excellent, and handles most word processing tasks as well or
    better than Word. It’s not 100% compatible, of course; Word for Mac
    isn’t 100% compatible with Word for Windows. It’s pretty good, though. >>> Keynote is magnificent, better than PowerPoint for most purposes.

    For Christ's sake use well documented Open Source formats and software!
    The proposals above are all proprietary crap and in 20-30 years from now
    nobody can open this digital mortuary.


    Tablets for sale! Get your tablets here! No plug required.

    complete with iChisel?
    --
    Graeme Wall
    This account not read.

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  • From Alan B@21:1/5 to Chris on Tue Mar 7 20:54:46 2023
    On 2023-03-07, Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
    Sara Merriman <saramerriman@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
    On 7 Mar 2023 at 11:10:41 GMT, "Alan B" <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid>
    wrote:

    Can’t say this news particularly excites me ;-)

    <https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/outlook-blog/outlook-mac-for-all/ba-p/3757787>

    Now if Word and Excel were …. but then there’s always LibreOffice.

    Ugh from MS in the comments: "The new Outlook for Mac is free to use, and
    ad-supported when using a non-licensed account."

    Also "new" Outlook is bad. It may look nice(r) but several things are missing. I had to go back.

    Yes, it looks like I'll be sticking with Apple Mail for the foreseeable future.

    --
    Cheers, Alan

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Joerg Lorenz@21:1/5 to All on Tue Mar 7 22:39:07 2023
    Am 07.03.23 um 20:52 schrieb Chris:
    Sara Merriman <saramerriman@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
    On 7 Mar 2023 at 11:10:41 GMT, "Alan B" <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid>
    wrote:

    Can’t say this news particularly excites me ;-)

    <https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/outlook-blog/outlook-mac-for-all/ba-p/3757787>

    Now if Word and Excel were …. but then there’s always LibreOffice.

    Ugh from MS in the comments: "The new Outlook for Mac is free to use, and
    ad-supported when using a non-licensed account."

    Also "new" Outlook is bad. It may look nice(r) but several things are missing. I had to go back.

    I'm wondering what the USP of a "free Outlook" on a Mac could be anyway.
    I'll stick to open source solutions which is in this particular case Thunderbird.

    On the Mac I use in addition Calendar and Contacts that come with the
    OS. On Linux they are mirrored to the contacts and calendar solutions in Thunderbird connected to the iCloud.

    --
    Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

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  • From Joerg Lorenz@21:1/5 to All on Tue Mar 7 22:45:59 2023
    Am 07.03.23 um 20:57 schrieb Chris:
    Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
    Am 07.03.23 um 17:07 schrieb WolfFan:
    On Mar 7, 2023, Alan B wrote
    Pages, Numbers and Keynote are OK too and as nospam commented TextEdit can >>>> often cope with Word documents.

    Pages is excellent, and handles most word processing tasks as well or better
    than Word. It’s not 100% compatible, of course; Word for Mac isn’t 100% >>> compatible with Word for Windows. It’s pretty good, though. Keynote is >>> magnificent, better than PowerPoint for most purposes.

    For Christ's sake use well documented Open Source formats and software!
    The proposals above are all proprietary crap and in 20-30 years from now
    nobody can open this digital mortuary.

    docx, pptx, xlsx *are* open standards ;)

    Why does it smell so fishy here?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_Open_XML

    Theoretically yes.

    --
    Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

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  • From WolfFan@21:1/5 to Joerg Lorenz on Tue Mar 7 23:00:36 2023
    On Mar 7, 2023, Joerg Lorenz wrote
    (in article <tu7sno$1njk6$1@solani.org>):

    Am 07.03.23 um 17:07 schrieb WolfFan:
    On Mar 7, 2023, Alan B wrote
    Pages, Numbers and Keynote are OK too and as nospam commented TextEdit can
    often cope with Word documents.

    Pages is excellent, and handles most word processing tasks as well or better
    than Word. It’s not 100% compatible, of course; Word for Mac isn’t 100% compatible with Word for Windows. It’s pretty good, though. Keynote is magnificent, better than PowerPoint for most purposes.

    For Christ's sake use well documented Open Source formats and software!
    The proposals above are all proprietary crap and in 20-30 years from now nobody can open this digital mortuary.

    OpenOffice, LibreOffice, NeoOffice, and so on suffer from the GIMP Problem: they are clunky, annoying, and poorly designed. MS Office is no prize, but OO/LO/NO are worse. Pages and Keynote are well-designed. I decline to use poorly-designed stuff just because it’s open-source.

    Every ever so often I install the latest version of LO and try it out. I usually delete it in short order and go back to MS Office and Pages/Keynote.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Sara Merriman@21:1/5 to Chris on Wed Mar 8 06:43:07 2023
    On 7 Mar 2023 at 19:52:48 GMT, "Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

    Sara Merriman <saramerriman@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
    On 7 Mar 2023 at 11:10:41 GMT, "Alan B" <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid>
    wrote:

    Can’t say this news particularly excites me ;-)

    <https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/outlook-blog/outlook-mac-for-all/ba-p/3757787>

    Now if Word and Excel were …. but then there’s always LibreOffice.

    Ugh from MS in the comments: "The new Outlook for Mac is free to use, and
    ad-supported when using a non-licensed account."

    Also "new" Outlook is bad. It may look nice(r) but several things are missing. I had to go back.

    Yes, we did at work too.

    No thanks.


    --
    Spike is a sturdy birdy

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Joerg Lorenz@21:1/5 to All on Wed Mar 8 08:20:44 2023
    Am 08.03.23 um 05:00 schrieb WolfFan:
    On Mar 7, 2023, Joerg Lorenz wrote
    For Christ's sake use well documented Open Source formats and software!
    The proposals above are all proprietary crap and in 20-30 years from now
    nobody can open this digital mortuary.

    OpenOffice, LibreOffice, NeoOffice, and so on suffer from the GIMP Problem: they are clunky, annoying, and poorly designed. MS Office is no prize, but OO/LO/NO are worse. Pages and Keynote are well-designed. I decline to use poorly-designed stuff just because it’s open-source.

    That is your opinion. I think and experience the opposite.

    Pages and Keynote are completely irrelevant on the market anyway. The possibility to exchange and edit files over all OSs is a NoGo-item.
    Microsoft Office is therefore already borderline.

    Every ever so often I install the latest version of LO and try it out. I usually delete it in short order and go back to MS Office and Pages/Keynote.

    Your choice.

    --
    Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Chris@21:1/5 to Joerg Lorenz on Wed Mar 8 22:59:32 2023
    Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
    Am 08.03.23 um 05:00 schrieb WolfFan:
    On Mar 7, 2023, Joerg Lorenz wrote
    For Christ's sake use well documented Open Source formats and software!
    The proposals above are all proprietary crap and in 20-30 years from now >>> nobody can open this digital mortuary.

    OpenOffice, LibreOffice, NeoOffice, and so on suffer from the GIMP Problem: >> they are clunky, annoying, and poorly designed. MS Office is no prize, but >> OO/LO/NO are worse. Pages and Keynote are well-designed. I decline to use
    poorly-designed stuff just because it’s open-source.

    That is your opinion. I think and experience the opposite.

    Seriously?! Am a fan all things open source, but LO simply cannot compete
    in UI and functionality. Impress in particular is embarrassingly bad.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Chris@21:1/5 to Sara Merriman on Wed Mar 8 22:59:32 2023
    Sara Merriman <saramerriman@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
    On 7 Mar 2023 at 19:52:48 GMT, "Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

    Sara Merriman <saramerriman@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
    On 7 Mar 2023 at 11:10:41 GMT, "Alan B" <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid>
    wrote:

    Can’t say this news particularly excites me ;-)

    <https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/outlook-blog/outlook-mac-for-all/ba-p/3757787>

    Now if Word and Excel were …. but then there’s always LibreOffice.

    Ugh from MS in the comments: "The new Outlook for Mac is free to use, and >>> ad-supported when using a non-licensed account."

    Also "new" Outlook is bad. It may look nice(r) but several things are
    missing. I had to go back.

    Yes, we did at work too.

    I've just seen a concerning banner on my Outlook warning me that "new
    outlook is here and will be enabled when restarted".

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Joerg Lorenz@21:1/5 to All on Thu Mar 9 06:12:02 2023
    Am 08.03.23 um 23:59 schrieb Chris:
    Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
    Am 08.03.23 um 05:00 schrieb WolfFan:
    On Mar 7, 2023, Joerg Lorenz wrote
    For Christ's sake use well documented Open Source formats and software! >>>> The proposals above are all proprietary crap and in 20-30 years from now >>>> nobody can open this digital mortuary.

    OpenOffice, LibreOffice, NeoOffice, and so on suffer from the GIMP Problem: >>> they are clunky, annoying, and poorly designed. MS Office is no prize, but >>> OO/LO/NO are worse. Pages and Keynote are well-designed. I decline to use >>> poorly-designed stuff just because it’s open-source.

    That is your opinion. I think and experience the opposite.

    Seriously?! Am a fan all things open source, but LO simply cannot compete
    in UI and functionality. Impress in particular is embarrassingly bad.

    I hardly ever use presentation programs. Usually they are the worst
    piece of software that exist.

    --
    Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Joerg Lorenz@21:1/5 to All on Thu Mar 9 06:10:20 2023
    Am 08.03.23 um 23:59 schrieb Chris:
    Sara Merriman <saramerriman@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
    On 7 Mar 2023 at 19:52:48 GMT, "Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

    Sara Merriman <saramerriman@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
    On 7 Mar 2023 at 11:10:41 GMT, "Alan B" <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid>
    wrote:

    Can’t say this news particularly excites me ;-)

    <https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/outlook-blog/outlook-mac-for-all/ba-p/3757787>

    Now if Word and Excel were …. but then there’s always LibreOffice. >>>>
    Ugh from MS in the comments: "The new Outlook for Mac is free to use, and >>>> ad-supported when using a non-licensed account."

    Also "new" Outlook is bad. It may look nice(r) but several things are
    missing. I had to go back.

    Yes, we did at work too.

    I've just seen a concerning banner on my Outlook warning me that "new
    outlook is here and will be enabled when restarted".

    Uninstall/delete the Microsoft Updater in Library - App Support.

    --
    Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Chris@21:1/5 to Joerg Lorenz on Thu Mar 9 13:18:50 2023
    Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
    Am 08.03.23 um 23:59 schrieb Chris:
    Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
    Am 08.03.23 um 05:00 schrieb WolfFan:
    On Mar 7, 2023, Joerg Lorenz wrote
    For Christ's sake use well documented Open Source formats and software! >>>>> The proposals above are all proprietary crap and in 20-30 years from now >>>>> nobody can open this digital mortuary.

    OpenOffice, LibreOffice, NeoOffice, and so on suffer from the GIMP Problem:
    they are clunky, annoying, and poorly designed. MS Office is no prize, but >>>> OO/LO/NO are worse. Pages and Keynote are well-designed. I decline to use >>>> poorly-designed stuff just because it’s open-source.

    That is your opinion. I think and experience the opposite.

    Seriously?! Am a fan all things open source, but LO simply cannot compete
    in UI and functionality. Impress in particular is embarrassingly bad.

    I hardly ever use presentation programs. Usually they are the worst
    piece of software that exist.

    I give presentations on a weekly basis, often more, so powerpoint is
    probably my most application after email.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Joerg Lorenz@21:1/5 to All on Thu Mar 9 14:25:34 2023
    Am 09.03.23 um 14:18 schrieb Chris:
    Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
    Am 08.03.23 um 23:59 schrieb Chris:
    Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
    Am 08.03.23 um 05:00 schrieb WolfFan:
    On Mar 7, 2023, Joerg Lorenz wrote
    For Christ's sake use well documented Open Source formats and software! >>>>>> The proposals above are all proprietary crap and in 20-30 years from now >>>>>> nobody can open this digital mortuary.

    OpenOffice, LibreOffice, NeoOffice, and so on suffer from the GIMP Problem:
    they are clunky, annoying, and poorly designed. MS Office is no prize, but
    OO/LO/NO are worse. Pages and Keynote are well-designed. I decline to use >>>>> poorly-designed stuff just because it’s open-source.

    That is your opinion. I think and experience the opposite.

    Seriously?! Am a fan all things open source, but LO simply cannot compete >>> in UI and functionality. Impress in particular is embarrassingly bad.

    I hardly ever use presentation programs. Usually they are the worst
    piece of software that exist.

    I give presentations on a weekly basis, often more, so powerpoint is
    probably my most application after email.

    Poor guy! I give presentations too but I don't create them.

    --
    Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

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  • From Alan B@21:1/5 to Joerg Lorenz on Thu Mar 9 13:31:40 2023
    Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
    Am 09.03.23 um 14:18 schrieb Chris:
    Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
    Am 08.03.23 um 23:59 schrieb Chris:
    Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
    Am 08.03.23 um 05:00 schrieb WolfFan:
    On Mar 7, 2023, Joerg Lorenz wrote
    For Christ's sake use well documented Open Source formats and software! >>>>>>> The proposals above are all proprietary crap and in 20-30 years from now
    nobody can open this digital mortuary.

    OpenOffice, LibreOffice, NeoOffice, and so on suffer from the GIMP Problem:
    they are clunky, annoying, and poorly designed. MS Office is no prize, but
    OO/LO/NO are worse. Pages and Keynote are well-designed. I decline to use
    poorly-designed stuff just because it’s open-source.

    That is your opinion. I think and experience the opposite.

    Seriously?! Am a fan all things open source, but LO simply cannot compete >>>> in UI and functionality. Impress in particular is embarrassingly bad.

    I hardly ever use presentation programs. Usually they are the worst
    piece of software that exist.

    I give presentations on a weekly basis, often more, so powerpoint is
    probably my most application after email.

    Poor guy! I give presentations too but I don't create them.

    The last presentation I gave used an OHP and hand drawn slides ;-)

    --
    Cheers, Alan

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  • From WolfFan@21:1/5 to Chris on Thu Mar 9 10:12:25 2023
    On Mar 8, 2023, Chris wrote
    (in article <tub40k$14btu$1@dont-email.me>):

    Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
    Am 08.03.23 um 05:00 schrieb WolfFan:
    On Mar 7, 2023, Joerg Lorenz wrote
    For Christ's sake use well documented Open Source formats and software! The proposals above are all proprietary crap and in 20-30 years from now
    nobody can open this digital mortuary.

    OpenOffice, LibreOffice, NeoOffice, and so on suffer from the GIMP Problem:
    they are clunky, annoying, and poorly designed. MS Office is no prize, but
    OO/LO/NO are worse. Pages and Keynote are well-designed. I decline to use poorly-designed stuff just because it’s open-source.

    That is your opinion. I think and experience the opposite.

    Seriously?! Am a fan all things open source, but LO simply cannot compete
    in UI and functionality. Impress in particular is embarrassingly bad.

    LO, like many other open-source projects, has severe UI problems. The devs either cannot or will not address these problems. The GIMP, for example, is
    far less usable than Photoshop. Worse, it’s less usable than Affinity
    Photo. Hell, it’s less usable than _Graphic Converter_, which is
    _shareware_ and doesn’t have the greatest UI... but the dev listens to the users and makes improvements. I’m on v11.something. I started on v2 in
    about 1995. I paid for the original license, and maybe three times over just short on three decades for updates, as most updates were and are free. I’ve contacted the dev a few times over the year, maybe a half dozen times total.
    He has always responded within 48 hours. He has usually got a fix for the problem, typically in a few days. Once it took about three months, but that
    was an obscure problem which was hard to reproduce.

    The devs at LO have never replied to any of my feedback. Not even once. Even bloody Microsoft does better. Apple pays attention to bug reports if you’re in AppleSeed, which I am. LO does _nothing_. Perhaps others have had better luck getting responses.

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  • From Jaimie Vandenbergh@21:1/5 to Chris on Thu Mar 9 20:30:32 2023
    On 9 Mar 2023 at 13:18:50 GMT, "Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

    Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
    Am 08.03.23 um 23:59 schrieb Chris:
    Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
    Am 08.03.23 um 05:00 schrieb WolfFan:
    On Mar 7, 2023, Joerg Lorenz wrote
    For Christ's sake use well documented Open Source formats and software! >>>>>> The proposals above are all proprietary crap and in 20-30 years from now >>>>>> nobody can open this digital mortuary.

    OpenOffice, LibreOffice, NeoOffice, and so on suffer from the GIMP Problem:
    they are clunky, annoying, and poorly designed. MS Office is no prize, but
    OO/LO/NO are worse. Pages and Keynote are well-designed. I decline to use >>>>> poorly-designed stuff just because it’s open-source.

    That is your opinion. I think and experience the opposite.

    Seriously?! Am a fan all things open source, but LO simply cannot compete >>> in UI and functionality. Impress in particular is embarrassingly bad.

    I hardly ever use presentation programs. Usually they are the worst
    piece of software that exist.

    I give presentations on a weekly basis, often more, so powerpoint is
    probably my most application after email.

    I'm so sorry.

    Don't ever try Keynote, it'll ruin you for Powerpoint forever.

    Cheers - Jaimie
    --
    "I'd tried caffeine a few times; it made me believe I was
    focused and energetic, but it turned my judgment to shit.
    Widespread use of caffeine explains a lot about the
    twentieth century." - "Distress", Greg Egan

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  • From Chris@21:1/5 to Jaimie Vandenbergh on Fri Mar 10 07:07:23 2023
    Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> wrote:
    On 9 Mar 2023 at 13:18:50 GMT, "Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

    Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
    Am 08.03.23 um 23:59 schrieb Chris:
    Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
    Am 08.03.23 um 05:00 schrieb WolfFan:
    On Mar 7, 2023, Joerg Lorenz wrote
    For Christ's sake use well documented Open Source formats and software! >>>>>>> The proposals above are all proprietary crap and in 20-30 years from now
    nobody can open this digital mortuary.

    OpenOffice, LibreOffice, NeoOffice, and so on suffer from the GIMP Problem:
    they are clunky, annoying, and poorly designed. MS Office is no prize, but
    OO/LO/NO are worse. Pages and Keynote are well-designed. I decline to use
    poorly-designed stuff just because it’s open-source.

    That is your opinion. I think and experience the opposite.

    Seriously?! Am a fan all things open source, but LO simply cannot compete >>>> in UI and functionality. Impress in particular is embarrassingly bad.

    I hardly ever use presentation programs. Usually they are the worst
    piece of software that exist.

    I give presentations on a weekly basis, often more, so powerpoint is
    probably my most application after email.

    I'm so sorry.

    Don't ever try Keynote, it'll ruin you for Powerpoint forever.

    Yeah not going to happen. Need to be able to share slides with others.
    Office files are simply the lowest common denominator.

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  • From Jaimie Vandenbergh@21:1/5 to Chris on Fri Mar 10 12:11:39 2023
    On 10 Mar 2023 at 07:07:23 GMT, "Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

    Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> wrote:
    On 9 Mar 2023 at 13:18:50 GMT, "Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

    Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
    Am 08.03.23 um 23:59 schrieb Chris:
    Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
    Am 08.03.23 um 05:00 schrieb WolfFan:
    On Mar 7, 2023, Joerg Lorenz wrote
    For Christ's sake use well documented Open Source formats and software!
    The proposals above are all proprietary crap and in 20-30 years from now
    nobody can open this digital mortuary.

    OpenOffice, LibreOffice, NeoOffice, and so on suffer from the GIMP Problem:
    they are clunky, annoying, and poorly designed. MS Office is no prize, but
    OO/LO/NO are worse. Pages and Keynote are well-designed. I decline to use
    poorly-designed stuff just because it’s open-source.

    That is your opinion. I think and experience the opposite.

    Seriously?! Am a fan all things open source, but LO simply cannot compete >>>>> in UI and functionality. Impress in particular is embarrassingly bad. >>>>
    I hardly ever use presentation programs. Usually they are the worst
    piece of software that exist.

    I give presentations on a weekly basis, often more, so powerpoint is
    probably my most application after email.

    I'm so sorry.

    Don't ever try Keynote, it'll ruin you for Powerpoint forever.

    Yeah not going to happen. Need to be able to share slides with others.
    Office files are simply the lowest common denominator.

    And oh so, so, *so* low.

    Cheers - Jaimie
    --
    When one door closes another door opens; but we so often
    look so long and so regretfully upon the closed door, that
    we do not see the ones which open for us.
    - Alexander Graham Bell

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  • From WolfFan@21:1/5 to Chris on Fri Mar 10 06:52:25 2023
    On Mar 10, 2023, Chris wrote
    (in article <tuekvb$1s8jm$1@dont-email.me>):

    Jaimie Vandenbergh<jaimie@usually.sessile.org> wrote:
    On 9 Mar 2023 at 13:18:50 GMT, "Chris"<ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

    Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
    Am 08.03.23 um 23:59 schrieb Chris:
    Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
    Am 08.03.23 um 05:00 schrieb WolfFan:
    On Mar 7, 2023, Joerg Lorenz wrote
    For Christ's sake use well documented Open Source formats and software!
    The proposals above are all proprietary crap and in 20-30 years from
    now
    nobody can open this digital mortuary.

    OpenOffice, LibreOffice, NeoOffice, and so on suffer from the GIMP
    Problem:
    they are clunky, annoying, and poorly designed. MS Office is no prize,
    but
    OO/LO/NO are worse. Pages and Keynote are well-designed. I decline to
    use
    poorly-designed stuff just because it’s open-source.

    That is your opinion. I think and experience the opposite.

    Seriously?! Am a fan all things open source, but LO simply cannot compete
    in UI and functionality. Impress in particular is embarrassingly bad.

    I hardly ever use presentation programs. Usually they are the worst piece of software that exist.

    I give presentations on a weekly basis, often more, so powerpoint is probably my most application after email.

    I'm so sorry.

    Don't ever try Keynote, it'll ruin you for Powerpoint forever.

    Yeah not going to happen. Need to be able to share slides with others.
    Office files are simply the lowest common denominator.

    Keynote exports to PowerPoint. They can both use each other’s themes.

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  • From Chris@21:1/5 to Jaimie Vandenbergh on Fri Mar 10 13:03:31 2023
    Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> wrote:
    On 10 Mar 2023 at 07:07:23 GMT, "Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

    Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> wrote:
    On 9 Mar 2023 at 13:18:50 GMT, "Chris" <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

    Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
    Am 08.03.23 um 23:59 schrieb Chris:
    Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
    Am 08.03.23 um 05:00 schrieb WolfFan:
    On Mar 7, 2023, Joerg Lorenz wrote
    For Christ's sake use well documented Open Source formats and software!
    The proposals above are all proprietary crap and in 20-30 years from now
    nobody can open this digital mortuary.

    OpenOffice, LibreOffice, NeoOffice, and so on suffer from the GIMP Problem:
    they are clunky, annoying, and poorly designed. MS Office is no prize, but
    OO/LO/NO are worse. Pages and Keynote are well-designed. I decline to use
    poorly-designed stuff just because it’s open-source.

    That is your opinion. I think and experience the opposite.

    Seriously?! Am a fan all things open source, but LO simply cannot compete
    in UI and functionality. Impress in particular is embarrassingly bad. >>>>>
    I hardly ever use presentation programs. Usually they are the worst
    piece of software that exist.

    I give presentations on a weekly basis, often more, so powerpoint is
    probably my most application after email.

    I'm so sorry.

    Don't ever try Keynote, it'll ruin you for Powerpoint forever.

    Yeah not going to happen. Need to be able to share slides with others.
    Office files are simply the lowest common denominator.

    And oh so, so, *so* low.

    Not claiming otherwise ;) Although Office is better than it used to be and
    MS have made useful improvements rather than just more and more features
    that one person in Redmond thought was a good idea.

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  • From whisky-dave@21:1/5 to Mark on Fri Mar 10 04:59:34 2023
    On Tuesday, 7 March 2023 at 13:52:33 UTC, Mark wrote:
    On 2023-03-07 11:10:41 +0000, Alan B said:

    Can’t say this news particularly excites me ;-)

    <https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/outlook-blog/outlook-mac-for-all/ba-p/3757787>


    Now if Word and Excel were …. but then there’s always LibreOffice.
    Re. Word - there's also <https://bean-osx.com/Bean.html> Not sure how compatible it is if you're exchcnaging docs with Word users, but it's
    been around a long time.
    --
    Cheers ... Mark

    I quite like googles spreadsheet. Very convenient for general stuff I do and easy to share.
    I use excel as it's free at work and I quite like it.
    I tolerate word for basic stuff.

    I use numbers at home for very basic stuff but don't really like it.

    I don't use presentation software

    Pretty much have to use outlook for email at work.
    But use gmail and apple mail for private email.

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  • From Chris@21:1/5 to WolfFan on Fri Mar 10 13:03:32 2023
    WolfFan <akwolffan@zoho.com> wrote:
    On Mar 10, 2023, Chris wrote
    (in article <tuekvb$1s8jm$1@dont-email.me>):

    Jaimie Vandenbergh<jaimie@usually.sessile.org> wrote:
    On 9 Mar 2023 at 13:18:50 GMT, "Chris"<ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:

    Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
    Am 08.03.23 um 23:59 schrieb Chris:
    Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
    Am 08.03.23 um 05:00 schrieb WolfFan:
    On Mar 7, 2023, Joerg Lorenz wrote
    For Christ's sake use well documented Open Source formats and >>>>>>>>> software!
    The proposals above are all proprietary crap and in 20-30 years from >>>>>>>>> now
    nobody can open this digital mortuary.

    OpenOffice, LibreOffice, NeoOffice, and so on suffer from the GIMP >>>>>>>> Problem:
    they are clunky, annoying, and poorly designed. MS Office is no prize, >>>>>>>> but
    OO/LO/NO are worse. Pages and Keynote are well-designed. I decline to >>>>>>>> use
    poorly-designed stuff just because it’s open-source.

    That is your opinion. I think and experience the opposite.

    Seriously?! Am a fan all things open source, but LO simply cannot compete
    in UI and functionality. Impress in particular is embarrassingly bad. >>>>>
    I hardly ever use presentation programs. Usually they are the worst
    piece of software that exist.

    I give presentations on a weekly basis, often more, so powerpoint is
    probably my most application after email.

    I'm so sorry.

    Don't ever try Keynote, it'll ruin you for Powerpoint forever.

    Yeah not going to happen. Need to be able to share slides with others.
    Office files are simply the lowest common denominator.

    Keynote exports to PowerPoint. They can both use each other’s themes.

    So does LO. It never goes well.

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  • From Joerg Lorenz@21:1/5 to All on Fri Mar 10 17:00:14 2023
    Am 10.03.23 um 08:07 schrieb Chris:
    Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> wrote:
    I'm so sorry.

    Don't ever try Keynote, it'll ruin you for Powerpoint forever.

    Yeah not going to happen. Need to be able to share slides with others.
    Office files are simply the lowest common denominator.

    Nope. LO goes far beyond that and masters all relevant file-formats.

    --
    Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

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  • From Chris@21:1/5 to Joerg Lorenz on Fri Mar 10 16:59:01 2023
    Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
    Am 10.03.23 um 08:07 schrieb Chris:
    Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> wrote:
    I'm so sorry.

    Don't ever try Keynote, it'll ruin you for Powerpoint forever.

    Yeah not going to happen. Need to be able to share slides with others.
    Office files are simply the lowest common denominator.

    Nope. LO goes far beyond that and masters all relevant file-formats.

    Obviously you've never tried doing two-way exchanging of files between LO
    and Office. Things get horribly mangled.

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  • From Joerg Lorenz@21:1/5 to All on Fri Mar 10 18:27:23 2023
    Am 10.03.23 um 17:59 schrieb Chris:
    Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
    Am 10.03.23 um 08:07 schrieb Chris:
    Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> wrote:
    I'm so sorry.

    Don't ever try Keynote, it'll ruin you for Powerpoint forever.

    Yeah not going to happen. Need to be able to share slides with others.
    Office files are simply the lowest common denominator.

    Nope. LO goes far beyond that and masters all relevant file-formats.

    Obviously you've never tried doing two-way exchanging of files between LO
    and Office. Things get horribly mangled.

    I did over more than a decade. Business documents notabene.


    --
    Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

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  • From Chris@21:1/5 to Joerg Lorenz on Fri Mar 10 20:51:57 2023
    Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
    Am 10.03.23 um 17:59 schrieb Chris:
    Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
    Am 10.03.23 um 08:07 schrieb Chris:
    Jaimie Vandenbergh <jaimie@usually.sessile.org> wrote:
    I'm so sorry.

    Don't ever try Keynote, it'll ruin you for Powerpoint forever.

    Yeah not going to happen. Need to be able to share slides with others. >>>> Office files are simply the lowest common denominator.

    Nope. LO goes far beyond that and masters all relevant file-formats.

    Obviously you've never tried doing two-way exchanging of files between LO
    and Office. Things get horribly mangled.

    I did over more than a decade. Business documents notabene.

    Sure. Exempli gratia.

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  • From Alan B@21:1/5 to Chris on Sat Mar 11 10:55:55 2023
    Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
    Sara Merriman <saramerriman@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
    On 7 Mar 2023 at 11:10:41 GMT, "Alan B" <alanrichardbarker@gmail.com.invalid>
    wrote:

    Can’t say this news particularly excites me ;-)

    <https://techcommunity.microsoft.com/t5/outlook-blog/outlook-mac-for-all/ba-p/3757787>

    Now if Word and Excel were …. but then there’s always LibreOffice.

    Ugh from MS in the comments: "The new Outlook for Mac is free to use, and
    ad-supported when using a non-licensed account."

    Also "new" Outlook is bad. It may look nice(r) but several things are missing. I had to go back.

    I wonder why MS even call their Mac app Outlook as it has major differences from the Windows version.

    <https://www.stellarinfo.com/blog/outlook-for-windows-vs-outlook-for-mac/>

    So much for cross-platform compatibility.

    --
    Cheers, Alan

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  • From Joerg Lorenz@21:1/5 to All on Sat Mar 11 12:06:21 2023
    Am 11.03.23 um 11:55 schrieb Alan B:
    Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
    Also "new" Outlook is bad. It may look nice(r) but several things are
    missing. I had to go back.

    I wonder why MS even call their Mac app Outlook as it has major differences from the Windows version.

    <https://www.stellarinfo.com/blog/outlook-for-windows-vs-outlook-for-mac/>

    So much for cross-platform compatibility.

    Mozilla/Thunderbird is absolutely capable to do exactly that over three platforms: Identical features and identical look.

    --
    Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

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  • From Alan B@21:1/5 to Joerg Lorenz on Sat Mar 11 11:21:20 2023
    Joerg Lorenz <hugybear@gmx.ch> wrote:
    Am 11.03.23 um 11:55 schrieb Alan B:
    Chris <ithinkiam@gmail.com> wrote:
    Also "new" Outlook is bad. It may look nice(r) but several things are
    missing. I had to go back.

    I wonder why MS even call their Mac app Outlook as it has major differences >> from the Windows version.

    <https://www.stellarinfo.com/blog/outlook-for-windows-vs-outlook-for-mac/> >>
    So much for cross-platform compatibility.

    Mozilla/Thunderbird is absolutely capable to do exactly that over three platforms: Identical features and identical look.

    There are several cross platform clients. For instance I tried BlueMail sometime ago but decided not to bother - Sadly I can’t remember why!

    --
    Cheers, Alan

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