I need to extend my Ethernet network outside to allow use of an AP to
provide signal to the garden area.
Running a new cable from the switch under the stairs is a real pain due to difficult access between the floors around the stairs.
One option is an existing internal socket in the outside wall.
I don't think that there is enough spare cable to disconnect and run it through the wall to the outside to a new socket, mount a router out there, then take a cable back in to the wall socket.
I can connect a router inside, but want to avoid a box on the work surface
or adjoining wall.
Is there is a straightforward way to extend Cat5E from within a double
back box?
A very small router and power supply seems far too big.
I need to extend my Ethernet network outside to allow use of an AP to
provide signal to the garden area.
Running a new cable from the switch under the stairs is a real pain due to difficult access between the floors around the stairs.
One option is an existing internal socket in the outside wall.
I don't think that there is enough spare cable to disconnect and run it through the wall to the outside to a new socket, mount a router out there, then take a cable back in to the wall socket.
I can connect a router inside, but want to avoid a box on the work surface
or adjoining wall.
Is there is a straightforward way to extend Cat5E from within a double
back box?
A very small router and power supply seems far too big.
I could fit an extender (socket type) to the cable but I'm not really keen
on this. Is there a connector with punch down connectors on both sides to extend a run of Ethernet?
I need to extend my Ethernet network outside to allow use of an AP to
provide signal to the garden area.
Running a new cable from the switch under the stairs is a real pain due to difficult access between the floors around the stairs.
One option is an existing internal socket in the outside wall.
I don't think that there is enough spare cable to disconnect and run it through the wall to the outside to a new socket, mount a router out there, then take a cable back in to the wall socket.
I can connect a router inside, but want to avoid a box on the work surface
or adjoining wall.
Is there is a straightforward way to extend Cat5E from within a double
back box?
In uk.d-i-y David <wibble@btinternet.com> wrote:
I need to extend my Ethernet network outside to allow use of an AP to
provide signal to the garden area.
Running a new cable from the switch under the stairs is a real pain due
to difficult access between the floors around the stairs.
One option is an existing internal socket in the outside wall.
I don't think that there is enough spare cable to disconnect and run it
through the wall to the outside to a new socket, mount a router out
there,
then take a cable back in to the wall socket.
I can connect a router inside, but want to avoid a box on the work
surface or adjoining wall.
Is there is a straightforward way to extend Cat5E from within a double
back box?
If you don't mind 100Mbit, you could split the cat5e into two groups of
two pairs. 100M will work over two pairs while gigabit needs four.
A very small router and power supply seems far too big.
There are 'in wall APs' which also have a switch: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003134217005.html
Powered by PoE so you can feed that in from the other end of the
ethernet.
TP-Link has the EAPxxx-Wall series which are larger than a single socket
box:
https://www.tp-link.com/uk/business-networking/omada-eap/#wall-plate-ap
(either in a double box horizontally, or vertically via a
double-to-single plate - need to check mounting holes)
Maybe one of these would also work as your external AP, ie no need for
the extra ethernet? You could use a double cable run outside, eg take
one cable from behind your internal ethernet socket, run it outside,
plug into the AP, take second cable and run it back from the outdoor AP
to connect to the faceplate of the internal socket. The AP is outside
(needs to be protected from the rain as it's not exterior grade) and the internal socket is now downstream of it.
Also, some outdoor APs may have a second ethernet port. You can do the
same idea with one of those, looping back the second ethernet port to
provide a port on your socket.
Theo
You said:
"eg take one cable from behind your internal ethernet socket, run it
outside, plug into the AP, take second cable and run it back from the
outdoor AP to connect to the faceplate of the internal socket."
This is my immediate issue - to get enough cable length to take the lead outside.
After that, running a cable back to the original socket on the internal
box is relatively trivial.
Is there is a straightforward way to extend Cat5E from within a double
back box?
A standard punch down CAT5 junction box should do the trick, like:
On 13/05/2024 12:04, David wrote:
I need to extend my Ethernet network outside to allow use of an AP to
provide signal to the garden area.
Running a new cable from the switch under the stairs is a real pain due
to difficult access between the floors around the stairs.
One option is an existing internal socket in the outside wall.
I don't think that there is enough spare cable to disconnect and run it
through the wall to the outside to a new socket, mount a router out
there,
then take a cable back in to the wall socket.
I can connect a router inside, but want to avoid a box on the work
surface or adjoining wall.
Is there is a straightforward way to extend Cat5E from within a double
back box?
A standard punch down CAT5 junction box should do the trick, like:
https://www.comms-express.com/products/cat5e-utp-junction-box/
Note however that you would lose access to the internal socket, since
you can't just daisy chain network sockets.
(If you need the internal socket, then select an AP with more than one ethernet port on it, and bring a second CAT5 back from the AP, to
terminate on the socket)
On Mon, 13 May 2024 12:40:45 +0100, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y David <wibble@btinternet.com> wrote:
I need to extend my Ethernet network outside to allow use of an AP to
provide signal to the garden area.
Running a new cable from the switch under the stairs is a real pain due
to difficult access between the floors around the stairs.
One option is an existing internal socket in the outside wall.
I don't think that there is enough spare cable to disconnect and run it
through the wall to the outside to a new socket, mount a router out
there,
then take a cable back in to the wall socket.
I can connect a router inside, but want to avoid a box on the work
surface or adjoining wall.
Is there is a straightforward way to extend Cat5E from within a double
back box?
If you don't mind 100Mbit, you could split the cat5e into two groups of
two pairs. 100M will work over two pairs while gigabit needs four.
A very small router and power supply seems far too big.
There are 'in wall APs' which also have a switch:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003134217005.html
Powered by PoE so you can feed that in from the other end of the
ethernet.
TP-Link has the EAPxxx-Wall series which are larger than a single socket
box:
https://www.tp-link.com/uk/business-networking/omada-eap/#wall-plate-ap
(either in a double box horizontally, or vertically via a
double-to-single plate - need to check mounting holes)
Maybe one of these would also work as your external AP, ie no need for
the extra ethernet? You could use a double cable run outside, eg take
one cable from behind your internal ethernet socket, run it outside,
plug into the AP, take second cable and run it back from the outdoor AP
to connect to the faceplate of the internal socket. The AP is outside
(needs to be protected from the rain as it's not exterior grade) and the
internal socket is now downstream of it.
Also, some outdoor APs may have a second ethernet port. You can do the
same idea with one of those, looping back the second ethernet port to
provide a port on your socket.
Theo
Thanks.
Interesting stuff.
However my current wall socket is a double box with a modular face plate.
There are three connections:
Ethernet RJ45
Satellite F-plug (not currently connected
TV F-plug connected
So there is little scope for replacing the current faceplate.
The outside area is under a wrap around car port so is protected from any direct rain
You said:
"eg take one cable from behind your internal ethernet socket, run it
outside, plug into the AP, take second cable and run it back from the
outdoor AP to connect to the faceplate of the internal socket."
This is my immediate issue - to get enough cable length to take the lead outside.
After that, running a cable back to the original socket on the internal
box is relatively trivial.
The location would not be good for an AP as I want it around the back of
the house up high under the plastic roof to give the best signal path down the garden, and good signal to people sitting out on the deck.
Some very useful links there, though.
Cheers
Dave R
David <wibble@btinternet.com> wrote:
On Mon, 13 May 2024 12:40:45 +0100, Theo wrote:If you can do without the internal RJ45 I would replace any network
In uk.d-i-y David <wibble@btinternet.com> wrote:
I need to extend my Ethernet network outside to allow use of an AP to
provide signal to the garden area.
Running a new cable from the switch under the stairs is a real pain
due to difficult access between the floors around the stairs.
One option is an existing internal socket in the outside wall.
I don't think that there is enough spare cable to disconnect and run
it through the wall to the outside to a new socket, mount a router
out there,
then take a cable back in to the wall socket.
I can connect a router inside, but want to avoid a box on the work
surface or adjoining wall.
Is there is a straightforward way to extend Cat5E from within a
double back box?
If you don't mind 100Mbit, you could split the cat5e into two groups
of two pairs. 100M will work over two pairs while gigabit needs four.
A very small router and power supply seems far too big.
There are 'in wall APs' which also have a switch:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003134217005.html
Powered by PoE so you can feed that in from the other end of the
ethernet.
TP-Link has the EAPxxx-Wall series which are larger than a single
socket box:
https://www.tp-link.com/uk/business-networking/omada-eap/#wall-plate-ap
(either in a double box horizontally, or vertically via a
double-to-single plate - need to check mounting holes)
Maybe one of these would also work as your external AP, ie no need for
the extra ethernet? You could use a double cable run outside, eg take
one cable from behind your internal ethernet socket, run it outside,
plug into the AP, take second cable and run it back from the outdoor
AP to connect to the faceplate of the internal socket. The AP is
outside (needs to be protected from the rain as it's not exterior
grade) and the internal socket is now downstream of it.
Also, some outdoor APs may have a second ethernet port. You can do
the same idea with one of those, looping back the second ethernet port
to provide a port on your socket.
Theo
Thanks.
Interesting stuff.
However my current wall socket is a double box with a modular face
plate.
There are three connections:
Ethernet RJ45
Satellite F-plug (not currently connected
TV F-plug connected
So there is little scope for replacing the current faceplate.
The outside area is under a wrap around car port so is protected from
any direct rain
You said:
"eg take one cable from behind your internal ethernet socket, run it
outside, plug into the AP, take second cable and run it back from the
outdoor AP to connect to the faceplate of the internal socket."
This is my immediate issue - to get enough cable length to take the
lead outside.
After that, running a cable back to the original socket on the internal
box is relatively trivial.
The location would not be good for an AP as I want it around the back
of the house up high under the plastic roof to give the best signal
path down the garden, and good signal to people sitting out on the
deck.
Some very useful links there, though.
Cheers
Dave R
switch with a POE enabled one then all you need to do is run Ethernet to
a POE enabled AP which could be done by splicing the wires in your
existing box. Alternatively get a POE injector plug it into the network socket run your cable from outside and plug it into the injector and
plug the injector into any convenient 13A socket.
On 13/05/2024 12:49, John Rumm wrote:
Is there is a straightforward way to extend Cat5E from within a double
back box?
A standard punch down CAT5 junction box should do the trick, like:
Presuming that works, why not just twist the cables together, strand by strand, with a shrink tube around each strand.
I need to extend my Ethernet network outside to allow use of an AP to
provide signal to the garden area.
Running a new cable from the switch under the stairs is a real pain due to difficult access between the floors around the stairs.
One option is an existing internal socket in the outside wall.
I don't think that there is enough spare cable to disconnect and run it through the wall to the outside to a new socket, mount a router out there, then take a cable back in to the wall socket.
I can connect a router inside, but want to avoid a box on the work surface
or adjoining wall.
Is there is a straightforward way to extend Cat5E from within a double
back box?
A very small router and power supply seems far too big.
I could fit an extender (socket type) to the cable but I'm not really keen
on this. Is there a connector with punch down connectors on both sides to extend a run of Ethernet?
As usual, once I start typing out the details I think of more options.
Cheers
Dave R
In uk.d-i-y Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> wrote:
On 13/05/2024 12:49, John Rumm wrote:
Is there is a straightforward way to extend Cat5E from within a double >>>> back box?
A standard punch down CAT5 junction box should do the trick, like:
Presuming that works, why not just twist the cables together, strand by
strand, with a shrink tube around each strand.
Use the proper box for the sake of a couple of quid?
On 13/05/2024 12:49, John Rumm wrote:
Is there is a straightforward way to extend Cat5E from within a double
back box?
A standard punch down CAT5 junction box should do the trick, like:
Presuming that works, why not just twist the cables together, strand by strand, with a shrink tube around each strand.
On Mon, 13 May 2024 12:52:55 +0000, Tricky Dicky wrote:
David <wibble@btinternet.com> wrote:
On Mon, 13 May 2024 12:40:45 +0100, Theo wrote:If you can do without the internal RJ45 I would replace any network
In uk.d-i-y David <wibble@btinternet.com> wrote:
I need to extend my Ethernet network outside to allow use of an AP to >>>>> provide signal to the garden area.
Running a new cable from the switch under the stairs is a real pain
due to difficult access between the floors around the stairs.
One option is an existing internal socket in the outside wall.
I don't think that there is enough spare cable to disconnect and run >>>>> it through the wall to the outside to a new socket, mount a router
out there,
then take a cable back in to the wall socket.
I can connect a router inside, but want to avoid a box on the work
surface or adjoining wall.
Is there is a straightforward way to extend Cat5E from within a
double back box?
If you don't mind 100Mbit, you could split the cat5e into two groups
of two pairs. 100M will work over two pairs while gigabit needs four. >>>>
A very small router and power supply seems far too big.
There are 'in wall APs' which also have a switch:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003134217005.html
Powered by PoE so you can feed that in from the other end of the
ethernet.
TP-Link has the EAPxxx-Wall series which are larger than a single
socket box:
https://www.tp-link.com/uk/business-networking/omada-eap/#wall-plate-ap >>>>
(either in a double box horizontally, or vertically via a
double-to-single plate - need to check mounting holes)
Maybe one of these would also work as your external AP, ie no need for >>>> the extra ethernet? You could use a double cable run outside, eg take >>>> one cable from behind your internal ethernet socket, run it outside,
plug into the AP, take second cable and run it back from the outdoor
AP to connect to the faceplate of the internal socket. The AP is
outside (needs to be protected from the rain as it's not exterior
grade) and the internal socket is now downstream of it.
Also, some outdoor APs may have a second ethernet port. You can do
the same idea with one of those, looping back the second ethernet port >>>> to provide a port on your socket.
Theo
Thanks.
Interesting stuff.
However my current wall socket is a double box with a modular face
plate.
There are three connections:
Ethernet RJ45
Satellite F-plug (not currently connected
TV F-plug connected
So there is little scope for replacing the current faceplate.
The outside area is under a wrap around car port so is protected from
any direct rain
You said:
"eg take one cable from behind your internal ethernet socket, run it
outside, plug into the AP, take second cable and run it back from the
outdoor AP to connect to the faceplate of the internal socket."
This is my immediate issue - to get enough cable length to take the
lead outside.
After that, running a cable back to the original socket on the internal
box is relatively trivial.
The location would not be good for an AP as I want it around the back
of the house up high under the plastic roof to give the best signal
path down the garden, and good signal to people sitting out on the
deck.
Some very useful links there, though.
Cheers
Dave R
switch with a POE enabled one then all you need to do is run Ethernet to
a POE enabled AP which could be done by splicing the wires in your
existing box. Alternatively get a POE injector plug it into the network
socket run your cable from outside and plug it into the injector and
plug the injector into any convenient 13A socket.
Thanks.
I want to retain the internal RJ45 connector as it is part of the sat/TV/ Ethernet point where (should we no longer be able to use upstairs) we can install a big TV in our new living area.
Cheers
Dave R
I want to retain the internal RJ45 connector as it is part of the sat/TV/ Ethernet point where (should we no longer be able to use upstairs) we can install a big TV in our new living area.
On 13/05/2024 13:17, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> wrote:
On 13/05/2024 12:49, John Rumm wrote:
Is there is a straightforward way to extend Cat5E from within a double >>>>> back box?
A standard punch down CAT5 junction box should do the trick, like:
Presuming that works, why not just twist the cables together, strand by
strand, with a shrink tube around each strand.
Use the proper box for the sake of a couple of quid?
Me???? Do a proper job :-).
But thinking about it, you are right, the cables need to be twisted
pair. An untwisted stretch > 2cm could be problematic.
Is there is a straightforward way to extend Cat5E from within a
double back box?
I will check, but a double back box already accommodating two Coax cablesFitting 'RJ45' plugs and using a coupler might eat less space ...
and a Cat5E cable may not have enough spare space for a punch down
connector.
In uk.d-i-y David <wibble@btinternet.com> wrote:
I need to extend my Ethernet network outside to allow use of an AP to
provide signal to the garden area.
Running a new cable from the switch under the stairs is a real pain due to >> difficult access between the floors around the stairs.
One option is an existing internal socket in the outside wall.
I don't think that there is enough spare cable to disconnect and run it
through the wall to the outside to a new socket, mount a router out there, >> then take a cable back in to the wall socket.
I can connect a router inside, but want to avoid a box on the work surface >> or adjoining wall.
Is there is a straightforward way to extend Cat5E from within a double
back box?
If you don't mind 100Mbit, you could split the cat5e into two groups of two pairs. 100M will work over two pairs while gigabit needs four.
A very small router and power supply seems far too big.
There are 'in wall APs' which also have a switch: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003134217005.html
On 13/05/2024 15:11, Pancho wrote:
On 13/05/2024 13:17, Theo wrote:
In uk.d-i-y Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> wrote:
On 13/05/2024 12:49, John Rumm wrote:
Is there is a straightforward way to extend Cat5E from within a double >>>>>> back box?
A standard punch down CAT5 junction box should do the trick, like:
Presuming that works, why not just twist the cables together, strand by >>>> strand, with a shrink tube around each strand.
Use the proper box for the sake of a couple of quid?
Me???? Do a proper job :-).
But thinking about it, you are right, the cables need to be twisted pair. An untwisted stretch > 2cm could be problematic.
It most certainly isn't at 100Mbps.
And I warrant at Gbps too. The power levels used in Ethernet are *massive* compared with what is typical at RF. .
The twisted pair part of Ethernet is as much stopping it radiating interference as it is rejecting outside interference, and the termination impedance at both ends is enough to swamp reflections from 'bad' connections'
When you think about it, a soldered or twisted together line is a lot less shitty than a punch down pair of forks...in a rack...
Ethernet is designed to be installed by 'unskilled' personnel
One of the Marvell NIC chips, has an impedance tester (page 13):
http://web.archive.org/web/20051101231749/http://marvell.com/products/transceivers/singleport/VCT_White_Paper.pdf
(their own flavour of TDR). And it can tell you "shorted", "open",
or "characteristic impedance". Since there are four pairs
and the Marvell is GbE, there are four words on the screen,
one word for each pair. When I first got the P5E Deluxe, the RJ45
was dirty, and had one open contact, so I got to use the VCT test
right away. And one of the pairs was rated "Open". Re-inserting
the RJ45, five times, was sufficient to clean the contact.
Marvell still lists some parts that have VCT capability, but
I don't know how easy it is to find a working specimen at retail.
https://www.marvell.com/products/ethernet-phys.html
The error rate on Ethernet, is finite. It's not zero.
And our objective as hobbyists, is to not make it worse :-)
I occasionally run SHA hashes on network transferred files,
to keep an eye on the enhanced error rate. I've never
seen a bit flipped in a transferred file... yet. But the
opportunity for that, does exist.
In uk.d-i-y Paul <nospam@needed.invalid> wrote:All this theory and possibility is trumped by the fact that a soldered
One of the Marvell NIC chips, has an impedance tester (page 13):
http://web.archive.org/web/20051101231749/http://marvell.com/products/transceivers/singleport/VCT_White_Paper.pdf
(their own flavour of TDR). And it can tell you "shorted", "open",
or "characteristic impedance". Since there are four pairs
and the Marvell is GbE, there are four words on the screen,
one word for each pair. When I first got the P5E Deluxe, the RJ45
was dirty, and had one open contact, so I got to use the VCT test
right away. And one of the pairs was rated "Open". Re-inserting
the RJ45, five times, was sufficient to clean the contact.
That's interesting, I hadn't come across those. They look quite handy.
Marvell still lists some parts that have VCT capability, but
I don't know how easy it is to find a working specimen at retail.
https://www.marvell.com/products/ethernet-phys.html
For the record those are PHYs - they go after the MAC chip which is the one that talks USB/PCI/PCIe/... There might be a USB ethernet adapter which has such a Marvell PHY after its MAC, but it's a job to find one unless you look at teardown photos. Many cheaper devices have combined MAC and PHY in the same silicon so that makes them less likely. You could hunt around for PCI(e) cards with Marvell PHY chips on them I suppose.
But it might be easier just to buy a proper TDR, ~$80: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004008485938.html
The error rate on Ethernet, is finite. It's not zero.
And our objective as hobbyists, is to not make it worse :-)
I occasionally run SHA hashes on network transferred files,
to keep an eye on the enhanced error rate. I've never
seen a bit flipped in a transferred file... yet. But the
opportunity for that, does exist.
You're several levels of checksumming at that point, which covers a
multitude of sins. But bodging it now stores up problems for the future - our entire office building had to be rewired because the contractors who installed cat5 when it was built only wired 2 pairs, which was all that was needed for 'super fast' 100Mbit at the time (the cable was fine, but all the terminations had to be redone).
2.5/5/10G copper is becoming more common and better to do it right than do
it twice.
Theo
The location would not be good for an AP as I want it around the back of
the house up high under the plastic roof to give the best signal path down the garden, and good signal to people sitting out on the deck.
I need to extend my Ethernet network outside to allow use of an AP to
provide signal to the garden area.
Running a new cable from the switch under the stairs is a real pain due to difficult access between the floors around the stairs.
One option is an existing internal socket in the outside wall.
I don't think that there is enough spare cable to disconnect and run it through the wall to the outside to a new socket, mount a router out there, then take a cable back in to the wall socket.
I can connect a router inside, but want to avoid a box on the work surface
or adjoining wall.
Is there is a straightforward way to extend Cat5E from within a double
back box?
A very small router and power supply seems far too big.
I could fit an extender (socket type) to the cable but I'm not really keen
on this. Is there a connector with punch down connectors on both sides to extend a run of Ethernet?
As usual, once I start typing out the details I think of more options.
Cheers
Dave R
On 13/05/2024 12:04, David wrote:
I need to extend my Ethernet network outside to allow use of an AP toAre you aware that some WAPs can be configured as repeaters. No need for
provide signal to the garden area.
Running a new cable from the switch under the stairs is a real pain due
to difficult access between the floors around the stairs.
One option is an existing internal socket in the outside wall.
I don't think that there is enough spare cable to disconnect and run it
through the wall to the outside to a new socket, mount a router out
there,
then take a cable back in to the wall socket.
I can connect a router inside, but want to avoid a box on the work
surface or adjoining wall.
Is there is a straightforward way to extend Cat5E from within a double
back box?
A very small router and power supply seems far too big.
I could fit an extender (socket type) to the cable but I'm not really
keen on this. Is there a connector with punch down connectors on both
sides to extend a run of Ethernet?
As usual, once I start typing out the details I think of more options.
Cheers
Dave R
any additional UTP cabling
On 13/05/2024 12:59, David wrote:
The location would not be good for an AP as I want it around the back
of the house up high under the plastic roof to give the best signal
path down the garden, and good signal to people sitting out on the
deck.
How far is your deck?
I get good coverage all over the garden from the router _inside_ my home office - a timber framed, plasterboard lined room. Out to at least 30m.
OTOH we don't have many neighbours to interfere with the signal.
Andy
On Tue, 21 May 2024 07:54:45 +0100, David wrote:
On 13/05/2024 12:04, David wrote:
I need to extend my Ethernet network outside to allow use of an AP toAre you aware that some WAPs can be configured as repeaters. No need for
provide signal to the garden area.
Running a new cable from the switch under the stairs is a real pain due
to difficult access between the floors around the stairs.
One option is an existing internal socket in the outside wall.
I don't think that there is enough spare cable to disconnect and run it
through the wall to the outside to a new socket, mount a router out
there,
then take a cable back in to the wall socket.
I can connect a router inside, but want to avoid a box on the work
surface or adjoining wall.
Is there is a straightforward way to extend Cat5E from within a double
back box?
A very small router and power supply seems far too big.
I could fit an extender (socket type) to the cable but I'm not really
keen on this. Is there a connector with punch down connectors on both
sides to extend a run of Ethernet?
As usual, once I start typing out the details I think of more options.
Cheers
Dave R
any additional UTP cabling
Yes, thanks.
The issue is getting enough signal to the WAP.
We sit right outside the bifold doors which is where the WAP would have to go.
Problem may have been solved by a new WiFi6 WAP in the living area, which
is far more effective than the old route which was being used as a WAP.
Cheers
Dave R
| Sysop: | Keyop |
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