• More Adventures Into Home Networking

    From Jeff Gaines@21:1/5 to All on Fri Dec 16 08:55:56 2022
    As part of my networking adventures I wondered what would be involved in setting up my home network as some sort of domain (I don't even know the
    proper terminology) so that my home computer could join that domain and do whatever domainy things it wanted to - like we had at work where by some
    magic my files were kept on a central server and Windows treated it as "My Documents".

    My main laptop has Win Pro as do my two desktops. Other laptops will have Ubuntu so I think they could all join a domain. I have 3 or 4 spare (you
    can tell I'm not married any more) machines that could act as chief
    domainer which would presumably run a Linux server version.

    I've tried Googling but they all think I want to set up a web serve at
    home so I am obviously not using the right terminology.

    Any thoughts/pointers appreciated.

    --
    Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
    Though no-one can go back and make a new start, everyone can start from
    now and make a new ending.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jeff Gaines@21:1/5 to Caspersz on Fri Dec 16 10:11:42 2022
    On 16/12/2022 in message <k02tdqFkrfmU1@mid.individual.net> Adrian
    Caspersz wrote:

    On 16/12/2022 08:55, Jeff Gaines wrote:

    As part of my networking adventures I wondered what would be involved in >>setting up my home network as some sort of domain (I don't even know the >>proper terminology) so that my home computer could join that domain and
    do whatever domainy things it wanted to - like we had at work where by
    some magic my files were kept on a central server and Windows treated it
    as "My Documents".

    Wouldn't recommend it. Find a non "active directory" way of doing the
    above. Just use a NAS and map drives?

    A poorly configured windows domain is just asking to get hacked and worse >cryptolocked, way too many things to secure - every thing needs to be on >point with regard to updates and versions etc...

    I wouldn't want to splash out for Windows Server with all its associated
    costs! I had vague thoughts of a Linux server facing the outside world and feeding things to my home network Many moons ago I read an article about setting a system up like this with the main machine having 2 x network
    cards - one faced out to the Internet and one in to the home network so
    they were insulated from each other.

    --
    Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
    George Washington was a British subject until well after his 40th birthday. (Margaret Thatcher, speech at the White House 17 December 1979)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Adrian Caspersz@21:1/5 to Jeff Gaines on Fri Dec 16 09:51:53 2022
    On 16/12/2022 08:55, Jeff Gaines wrote:

    As part of my networking adventures I wondered what would be involved in setting up my home network as some sort of domain (I don't even know the proper terminology) so that my home computer could join that domain and
    do whatever domainy things it wanted to - like we had at work where by
    some magic my files were kept on a central server and Windows treated it
    as "My Documents".

    Wouldn't recommend it. Find a non "active directory" way of doing the
    above. Just use a NAS and map drives?

    A poorly configured windows domain is just asking to get hacked and
    worse cryptolocked, way too many things to secure - every thing needs to
    be on point with regard to updates and versions etc...

    --
    Adrian C

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Philip Herlihy@21:1/5 to All on Fri Dec 16 12:06:01 2022
    In article <xn0nqo5bv2hqw4400d@news.individual.net>, Jeff Gaines wrote...

    As part of my networking adventures I wondered what would be involved in setting up my home network as some sort of domain (I don't even know the proper terminology) so that my home computer could join that domain and do whatever domainy things it wanted to - like we had at work where by some magic my files were kept on a central server and Windows treated it as "My Documents".

    My main laptop has Win Pro as do my two desktops. Other laptops will have Ubuntu so I think they could all join a domain. I have 3 or 4 spare (you
    can tell I'm not married any more) machines that could act as chief
    domainer which would presumably run a Linux server version.

    I've tried Googling but they all think I want to set up a web serve at
    home so I am obviously not using the right terminology.

    Any thoughts/pointers appreciated.

    "Domain" is a general term, but as you've seen it's most commonly used to refer to public Internet domains - which you know about.

    In Windows, it refers to the situation where control of many aspects of management of individual computers is centralised on a server. Windows Pro can't do this (though you need Pro to *join* a domain). You have to have hardware running some type of Windows Server to achieve this (though there may be non-Windows alternatives I don't know about), and client machines need client licenses. For example, on a stand-alone PC, a user is authenticated locally; in a Windows domain environment, the user is authenticated by the server (although there will be cacheing), so you could block a user from the entire family of systems with a single action on the server. Servers can also apply "Policies" which can limit what client PCs can do. It goes beyond file- sharing, as you can set that up fairly easily without a Windows Domain - it's about the centralisation of administration.

    There's a trade-off: setting up a domain, with all the intricacies of Active Directory, is a lot of work. It's only really worth doing if the saving in work due to centralised administration is greater than the effort of setting it up. Personally, even in a business environment, I think you'd spend more time tinkering with your domain than you'd get back unless the number of clients is at least into double figures. And mixing non-Windows kit into the domain will significantly increase the work - and the uncertainty/insecurity - though in this group of all groups I wouldn't be surprised if someone pops up with a workable solution to this.

    Yes, it's interesting to understand how it works, and there will be videos of the basics of Windows Server online (particularly on LinkedIn, which took over the marvellous Lynda.com some years ago). But that knowledge is unlikely actually to be *useful* unless and until you find yourself in a medium-to-large corporate environment.

    --

    Phil, London

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jeff Gaines@21:1/5 to All on Fri Dec 16 12:41:21 2022
    On 16/12/2022 in message <MPG.3e066f883c51b96c989a2e@news.eternal-september.org> Philip Herlihy
    wrote:

    [snipped]

    Yes, it's interesting to understand how it works, and there will be videos
    of
    the basics of Windows Server online (particularly on LinkedIn, which took >over
    the marvellous Lynda.com some years ago). But that knowledge is unlikely >actually to be useful unless and until you find yourself in a
    medium-to-large
    corporate environment.

    Many thanks Philip :-)

    My QNAP works very well as a file server and I am running apps from it as
    well which I didn't think would be possible.

    It is a bit slow sometimes and that might be because it is underpowered,
    or I have messed something up or Windows networking is notoriously slow
    etc. etc. I thought it might be interesting to try my Z620 as a server of
    some sort - Dual Xeons, 64 GB RAM, built like the old Mac Pro and crying
    out for something useful to do. I actually started by trying to Install
    Ubuntu server and discovered quite quickly it's a big boy's game! I
    managed to answer the questions but it insisted it would put the EFI boot partition on the NVMe - which is on a PCIe card and I know the Z620 won't
    boot from it. Anyway, took the card out and tried again so will see how it goes. I suspect for what I want putting Ubuntu-MATE on it would be as good
    and at least has a graphical interface to work with.

    All good fun and I do have some solid back ups so nothing can go wrong,
    can go wrong, can go wrong.....

    --
    Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
    How does a gender neutral bog differ from a unisex bog ?
    It has a non-binary number on the door.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Pancho@21:1/5 to Adrian Caspersz on Fri Dec 16 20:42:22 2022
    On 16/12/2022 09:51, Adrian Caspersz wrote:
    On 16/12/2022 08:55, Jeff Gaines wrote:

    As part of my networking adventures I wondered what would be involved
    in setting up my home network as some sort of domain (I don't even
    know the proper terminology) so that my home computer could join that
    domain and do whatever domainy things it wanted to - like we had at
    work where by some magic my files were kept on a central server and
    Windows treated it as "My Documents".

    Wouldn't recommend it. Find a non "active directory" way of doing the
    above. Just use a NAS and map drives?

    A poorly configured windows domain is just asking to get hacked and
    worse cryptolocked, way too many things to secure - every thing needs to
    be on point with regard to updates and versions etc...


    +1. I liked the idea of a domain as a single place to define user
    accounts, file security. So I set up an OpenLDAP server (I think) which
    is like Active Directory.

    I then got my machines to join. So far so good, but then I realised
    every PC configuration task was now done a different way, in this LDAP
    world. It would be a huge learning curve, for little benefit. So I
    rolled it all back.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jaimie Vandenbergh@21:1/5 to All on Sat Dec 17 00:47:21 2022
    On 16 Dec 2022 at 12:41:21 GMT, ""Jeff Gaines"" <jgnewsid@outlook.com>
    wrote:

    I thought it might be interesting to try my Z620 as a server of
    some sort - Dual Xeons,

    Only do this if it's somewhere that the wattage will improve your home
    heating. Otherwise that'll cost you £hundreds a year in electric bills
    to have on all the time.

    My 70W Dell server NAS is powered off as it'll cost me nearly £200/yr to
    run continuously, and I don't consider that a worthwhile price. I power
    it up on demand now.

    But yes, it will be quicker than the QNAPs.

    Cheers - Jaimie
    --
    "People can be educated beyond their intelligence"
    -- Marilyn vos Savant

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jeff Gaines@21:1/5 to Vandenbergh on Sat Dec 17 10:35:05 2022
    On 17/12/2022 in message <k04hspFskr3U1@mid.individual.net> Jaimie
    Vandenbergh wrote:

    On 16 Dec 2022 at 12:41:21 GMT, ""Jeff Gaines"" <jgnewsid@outlook.com>
    wrote:

    I thought it might be interesting to try my Z620 as a server of
    some sort - Dual Xeons,

    Only do this if it's somewhere that the wattage will improve your home >heating. Otherwise that'll cost you £hundreds a year in electric bills
    to have on all the time.

    My 70W Dell server NAS is powered off as it'll cost me nearly £200/yr to
    run continuously, and I don't consider that a worthwhile price. I power
    it up on demand now.

    But yes, it will be quicker than the QNAPs.

    Thanks Jaimie :-)

    It is now set up and running with Ubuntu-MATE, at least I can use a
    graphical interface for admin. I am copying stuff over currently. I ended
    up connecting from Ubuntu to the QNAP via SMB, does that make sense or is
    there a more "native" solution?

    I have to give myself permission to execute files and find a simple media streaming server then I can start testing!

    PS - The Z620 has never even got warm, perhaps I don't work it very hard?

    --
    Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
    This is as bad as it can get, but don't bet on it

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jaimie Vandenbergh@21:1/5 to All on Sat Dec 17 18:18:36 2022
    On 17 Dec 2022 at 10:35:05 GMT, ""Jeff Gaines"" <jgnewsid@outlook.com>
    wrote:


    PS - The Z620 has never even got warm, perhaps I don't work it very hard?

    The Dell maxes at 30C when it's using 65-70W so you can't trust that,
    it's the same Xeon series as yours I think. E2640 machine with 64gig,
    four 14TB HDDs and 10gigE; getting it down to that wattage was fun.
    Pre-tuning it was 160W doing nothing. Using a wattmeter at the wall is illuminating, when every watt-year costs £2.75 that 70W still adds up to
    too much.

    Cheers - Jaimie
    --
    "For our younger readers - books are hardened bits
    of the internet that have fallen off."
    -- Rob Manuel

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jeff Gaines@21:1/5 to Vandenbergh on Sat Dec 17 18:35:30 2022
    On 17/12/2022 in message <k06ffsF73rfU1@mid.individual.net> Jaimie
    Vandenbergh wrote:

    On 17 Dec 2022 at 10:35:05 GMT, ""Jeff Gaines"" <jgnewsid@outlook.com>
    wrote:


    PS - The Z620 has never even got warm, perhaps I don't work it very hard?

    The Dell maxes at 30C when it's using 65-70W so you can't trust that,
    it's the same Xeon series as yours I think. E2640 machine with 64gig,
    four 14TB HDDs and 10gigE; getting it down to that wattage was fun. >Pre-tuning it was 160W doing nothing. Using a wattmeter at the wall is >illuminating, when every watt-year costs £2.75 that 70W still adds up to
    too much.

    This time of year it will keep the study warm!

    All is set up, permissions set, Plex installed and working well and
    noticeably faster than the QNAP. I will test for a while before deciding
    best course of action.


    --
    Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
    If you ever find something you like buy a lifetime supply because they
    will stop making it

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jeff Gaines@21:1/5 to Vandenbergh on Mon Dec 19 10:53:09 2022
    On 17/12/2022 in message <k06ffsF73rfU1@mid.individual.net> Jaimie
    Vandenbergh wrote:

    The Dell maxes at 30C when it's using 65-70W so you can't trust that,
    it's the same Xeon series as yours I think. E2640 machine with 64gig,
    four 14TB HDDs and 10gigE; getting it down to that wattage was fun. >Pre-tuning it was 160W doing nothing. Using a wattmeter at the wall is >illuminating, when every watt-year costs £2.75 that 70W still adds up to
    too much.

    Does your Dell have a "you've interfered with me I'm going to sulk" setting?

    If I add a drive to the Z620 Windows won't recognise it unless I enter the
    BIOS and tell it not to worry everything is OK. I don't seem to have to
    change any settings, it just likes the reassurance.

    My Dell M6800 laptop is similar. If I take the bottom off it defaults to
    RAID mode at the next boot and I have to go in to the BIOS and change it
    back to AHCI.

    --
    Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
    The facts, although interesting, are irrelevant

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Andy Burns@21:1/5 to Jaimie Vandenbergh on Mon Dec 19 14:39:23 2022
    Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote:

    That's just Dell being fuckin' eedjits.

    In some cases Dell aren't idiots, most recent ones use the power barrel with a central 3rd pin to communicate available power from the brick to the laptop. I had a multitude of chargers original 60W, a "travel" 65W that could charge from cars and airplanes as well as mains, a 90W from when I upgraded to a faster Dell
    and a 120W that could power a dock as well as the laptop.

    If you plug an underpowered brick into a laptop you get a warning, but in most cases it just means the CPUs will throttle a bit, or it can't charge at the same
    time as running, there was a BIOS setting to say "Look I know, don't warn me in future"

    I've just bought a Lenovo (two actually) with thunderbolt4 the 12th gen one came with a 100W brick, but I now run it from a thunderbolt4 dock that provides 98W, yes it gives a warning within windows, which you can ignore, I mean nothing
    drastic is going to happen if it's 2W short.

    But then when Windows decides it's going to auto update overnight, you come back
    to a laptop the next morning that's got fans at max revs, it's very hot, simply because it's been sitting at a BIOS message saying "underpowered PSU" for several hours, press ESC and it will continue.

    Is there an option in the BIOS to say "don't worry about it"? ... no there isn't, thanks a bunch Lenovo!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jaimie Vandenbergh@21:1/5 to All on Mon Dec 19 14:16:25 2022
    On 19 Dec 2022 at 10:53:09 GMT, ""Jeff Gaines"" <jgnewsid@outlook.com>
    wrote:

    On 17/12/2022 in message <k06ffsF73rfU1@mid.individual.net> Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote:

    The Dell maxes at 30C when it's using 65-70W so you can't trust that,
    it's the same Xeon series as yours I think. E2640 machine with 64gig,
    four 14TB HDDs and 10gigE; getting it down to that wattage was fun.
    Pre-tuning it was 160W doing nothing. Using a wattmeter at the wall is
    illuminating, when every watt-year costs £2.75 that 70W still adds up to
    too much.

    Does your Dell have a "you've interfered with me I'm going to sulk" setting?

    Optionally, yes - "chassis opened" "drive config changed" "ram config
    changed" "cpu config changed", that sort of thing.

    If I add a drive to the Z620 Windows won't recognise it unless I enter the BIOS and tell it not to worry everything is OK. I don't seem to have to change any settings, it just likes the reassurance.

    It's a security measure. Don't want to come back to your fancy
    workstation to do secret commercial stuff to find it's had a keylogger inserted.

    My Dell M6800 laptop is similar. If I take the bottom off it defaults to
    RAID mode at the next boot and I have to go in to the BIOS and change it
    back to AHCI.

    That's just Dell being fuckin' eedjits. Offensively so.

    Cheers - Jaimie
    --
    "What we have done with PCs so far is not natural"
    - Craig Mundie, CTO Microsoft

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jaimie Vandenbergh@21:1/5 to All on Mon Dec 19 21:02:40 2022
    On 19 Dec 2022 at 14:39:23 GMT, "Andy Burns" <usenet@andyburns.uk>
    wrote:

    Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote:

    That's just Dell being fuckin' eedjits.

    In some cases Dell aren't idiots,

    Sure, but modifying your SATA config? That's eedjiting.

    But then when Windows decides it's going to auto update overnight, you come back
    to a laptop the next morning that's got fans at max revs, it's very hot, simply
    because it's been sitting at a BIOS message saying "underpowered PSU" for several hours, press ESC and it will continue.

    Amazing. The machines probably don't even have BIOSes as such too, being
    all EFI, so they've got no excuse for being quite so dumb.

    Cheers - Jaimie
    --
    Imagine how happy you might be if you spent less time
    imagining how happy you might be.
    -- j comeau, a softer world

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)