• How to Structure Home Network

    From Jeff Gaines@21:1/5 to All on Mon Dec 5 11:35:07 2022
    Seeking thoughts on how to structure a home network.

    There are a mix of computers, Windows, Mac, Linux and tablets - Android
    and Apple

    Serious use: accounts spreadsheets, correspondence, email.

    Fun use: programming with Visual Studio for Windows, occasional card
    games, FaceBook, Usenet. Trying out different Os's and network structures.

    Concerns: one day my playing will cause me to lose all my data.

    Currently my main desktop (a Windows machine, Asus Z170K mobo) has a 2 TB
    NVMe for data backed up to 3 different SSD's on the same machine then to a
    QNAP T451 (raid 10 so I can lose 2 disks before losing data). The QNAP
    also streams MP4 and MP3 files over the network so I can watch them on TV.
    Any new files are prepared on the main desktop and then fall into the
    backup regime that gets them to the QNAP. I also use it to keep things on
    from the Linux box as it preserves file permissions which Windows doesn't.

    I have a second Windows machine, HP Z620 with Dual Xeon processors and 64
    GB RAM which I think is fantastic and I use with VS 2022 while I puzzle
    out why MSFT bothered to upgrade VS2008.

    I have a Buffalo Terastation 3 gathering dust, I stopped using it because
    it's too old for updates and only does SMB 1. It does work though and I
    know it rebuilds itself (slowly) because the spinning drives in it started
    to fail one by one.

    I have no offsite storage so I know I am vulnerable to a catastrophe in my home. The last backup in the chain is a rugged USB 3 spinning drive
    (laptop size) that in theory I can take with me out the back while the
    firemen are coming in the front.

    I have some thoughts but would appreciate any ideas for structuring things
    from a fresh perspective, particularly where to keep the data so my
    playing doesn't destroy it*.

    * my first instance of major data loss was in the early 90's when I was multi-booting between Windows (?286), Linux Slackware and OS/2 Warp. I was sitting at a Linux terminal learning the Linux equivalents of DOS
    commands. One in particular involved rm, -v, * although not necessarily in
    that order. I discovered what it did when I tried to re-boot into Windows
    and discovered there we no files on the Windows boot partition.

    --
    Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
    I can please only one person per day. Today is not your day.
    Tomorrow, isn't looking good either.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Jaimie Vandenbergh@21:1/5 to All on Mon Dec 5 17:09:47 2022
    On 5 Dec 2022 at 11:35:07 GMT, ""Jeff Gaines"" <jgnewsid@outlook.com>
    wrote:


    Seeking thoughts on how to structure a home network.

    There are a mix of computers, Windows, Mac, Linux and tablets - Android
    and Apple

    Serious use: accounts spreadsheets, correspondence, email.

    Fun use: programming with Visual Studio for Windows, occasional card
    games, FaceBook, Usenet. Trying out different Os's and network structures.

    Concerns: one day my playing will cause me to lose all my data.

    From what you have, I'd suggest getting away from all these local
    backups.

    QNAP set to some sort of redundant storage, at least one disk may die
    with no issues.

    Set up each device to backup itself to the QNAP using whatever fully
    automated backup is best for them, ideally hourly with a history that
    you can set to a month or six. Win7/10 have those built in, Linux use
    whatever the QNAP supports as a backend.

    Also use the QNAP for your primary filesharing. Ideally, it has
    snapshots so you can retrieve or roll back after an accidental deletion
    off the NAS.

    Bring the old Terastation back up with another redundant array. Set it
    to pull a backup of the QNAP. I have my second NAS power up at 1am, run
    a backup from first NAS, shut down.

    For your regular fiddling with boot drives, do that stuff by imaging
    onto one of your dozens of USB HDD/SSDs temporarily. Anything important
    should already have been automatically backed up to the QNAP of course.

    This gives you a simple many clients -> QNAP -> Tera backup heirarchy,
    so most things are in three locations, apart from anything you're using
    the QNAP for primary storage for eg media files (which I assume can be tediously recovered from DVD/internet/etc which does count as a third location).

    Anything not in at least three places should be considered ephemeral.

    There are certainly benefits to replacing the Terastation with an
    identical model QNAP; this would mean if the primary QNAP dies you can
    swap disks+config to the second one while you get things sorted out.

    You can also take advantage of cloud storage alongside all of this, but
    as sideways extra callouts rather than integrated into the
    clients-qnap-tera heirarchy. For example, I do the above with my NAS1
    and NAS2, but also use a cloud fileshare service to sync my docs+stuff
    across all clients. And another one to act as offsite photo backup. And
    another one (backblaze) to keep a complete copy of my primary personal
    machine.

    Cheers - Jaimie

    --
    Sent from my Sun 4/60

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  • From Jeff Gaines@21:1/5 to Vandenbergh on Mon Dec 5 22:55:20 2022
    On 05/12/2022 in message <jv6murFaq8eU1@mid.individual.net> Jaimie
    Vandenbergh wrote:

    From what you have, I'd suggest getting away from all these local
    backups.

    QNAP set to some sort of redundant storage, at least one disk may die
    with no issues.

    Set up each device to backup itself to the QNAP using whatever fully >automated backup is best for them, ideally hourly with a history that
    you can set to a month or six. Win7/10 have those built in, Linux use >whatever the QNAP supports as a backend.

    Many thanks Jaimie :-)

    In summary I think you are saying use a grown up system with the QNAP as a
    file server, backed up to a second NAS. That would work very well because
    the QNAP has software that will back up to a second NAS (I needed some
    help in setting it up, they all use different names for the same thing)
    and it's currently copying itself to the Buffalo (it's got to 65%). The
    same software will backup up to a USB attached drive on a schedule as well
    and I will be able to access the NAS from anywhere even of the computer(s)
    are off.

    I think I will go for a slightly lower spec QNAP (431 rather than 451,
    it's £125 cheaper) as it won't have to work too hard.

    Interesting deciding how to set the new one up. I have 1.52 TB of data so
    it would fit on a 2 TB drive. I could run with 4 x separate drives so 3
    could fail and I'd still have my backup. Otherwise RAID 10 although it
    seems it's not a case of losing 2 drives and being OK, it depends on which drives you lose. I feel drawn to individual drives, there's no additional
    work once the schedules are set up.

    Many thanks again, I think it will give me a clean set up and keep the
    data away from the toys :-)

    --
    Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
    All those who believe in psychokinesis raise my hand.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jaimie Vandenbergh@21:1/5 to All on Mon Dec 5 23:34:12 2022
    On 5 Dec 2022 at 22:55:20 GMT, ""Jeff Gaines"" <jgnewsid@outlook.com>
    wrote:

    On 05/12/2022 in message <jv6murFaq8eU1@mid.individual.net> Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote:

    From what you have, I'd suggest getting away from all these local
    backups.

    QNAP set to some sort of redundant storage, at least one disk may die
    with no issues.

    Set up each device to backup itself to the QNAP using whatever fully
    automated backup is best for them, ideally hourly with a history that
    you can set to a month or six. Win7/10 have those built in, Linux use
    whatever the QNAP supports as a backend.

    Many thanks Jaimie :-)

    In summary I think you are saying use a grown up system with the QNAP as a file server, backed up to a second NAS. That would work very well because
    the QNAP has software that will back up to a second NAS (I needed some
    help in setting it up, they all use different names for the same thing)
    and it's currently copying itself to the Buffalo (it's got to 65%). The
    same software will backup up to a USB attached drive on a schedule as well and I will be able to access the NAS from anywhere even of the computer(s) are off.

    Eeexcellent!

    I think I will go for a slightly lower spec QNAP (431 rather than 451,
    it's £125 cheaper) as it won't have to work too hard.

    Check on whether it's possible to shift disks from one to the other;
    that's the ideal setup, in case of qnap hardware failure on NAS1.

    Interesting deciding how to set the new one up. I have 1.52 TB of data so
    it would fit on a 2 TB drive. I could run with 4 x separate drives so 3
    could fail and I'd still have my backup. Otherwise RAID 10 although it
    seems it's not a case of losing 2 drives and being OK, it depends on which drives you lose. I feel drawn to individual drives, there's no additional work once the schedules are set up.

    Yup, either's good though I might in this case recommend raid6 instead
    of 10, so any two drives can fail at any time, rather than sometimes 1, sometimes 2.

    Remember that your backup NAS can have more storage than your primary,
    and you can use that to keep a longer tiered backup history.

    Many thanks again, I think it will give me a clean set up and keep the
    data away from the toys :-)

    Have fun!

    Cheers - Jaimie

    --
    "Even to think wrongly is better than not to think at all"
    -- Hypatia of Alexandria

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Chris@21:1/5 to Jeff Gaines on Tue Dec 6 08:14:28 2022
    Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
    On 05/12/2022 in message <jv6murFaq8eU1@mid.individual.net> Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote:

    From what you have, I'd suggest getting away from all these local
    backups.

    QNAP set to some sort of redundant storage, at least one disk may die
    with no issues.

    Set up each device to backup itself to the QNAP using whatever fully
    automated backup is best for them, ideally hourly with a history that
    you can set to a month or six. Win7/10 have those built in, Linux use
    whatever the QNAP supports as a backend.

    Many thanks Jaimie :-)

    In summary I think you are saying use a grown up system with the QNAP as a file server, backed up to a second NAS. That would work very well because
    the QNAP has software that will back up to a second NAS (I needed some
    help in setting it up, they all use different names for the same thing)
    and it's currently copying itself to the Buffalo (it's got to 65%). The
    same software will backup up to a USB attached drive on a schedule as well and I will be able to access the NAS from anywhere even of the computer(s) are off.

    I think I will go for a slightly lower spec QNAP (431 rather than 451,
    it's £125 cheaper) as it won't have to work too hard.

    Interesting deciding how to set the new one up. I have 1.52 TB of data so
    it would fit on a 2 TB drive. I could run with 4 x separate drives so 3
    could fail and I'd still have my backup. Otherwise RAID 10 although it
    seems it's not a case of losing 2 drives and being OK, it depends on which drives you lose. I feel drawn to individual drives, there's no additional work once the schedules are set up.

    Many thanks again, I think it will give me a clean set up and keep the
    data away from the toys :-)

    You don't mention it but do you have a wired network or is it all wifi? If
    it's all wifi you may struggle for bandwidth doing all those backups and filesharing. I toyed with the idea but even with only one machine on a fileshare over wifi was painful.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jeff Gaines@21:1/5 to Chris on Tue Dec 6 09:56:15 2022
    On 06/12/2022 in message <tmmtl4$6p80$1@dont-email.me> Chris wrote:

    You don't mention it but do you have a wired network or is it all wifi? If >it's all wifi you may struggle for bandwidth doing all those backups and >filesharing. I toyed with the idea but even with only one machine on a >fileshare over wifi was painful.

    Hi Chris.

    It's a Tenda Nova Mesh system (also recommended by Jaimie, there's only
    one person to blame if things go wrong round here) that gets the WiFi from
    the incoming box to a cube on my desk which is then connected by a patch
    cable to a switch which has the 2 desktops and the QNAP plugged into it. Anything going by WiFi to that cube may be slower than a cabled connection
    but the main machines and QNAP are effectively wired.

    To add to the fun I usually sit in the lounge with my monster Dell M6800
    on my lap driving the desktops by RDP, it makes my brain hurt trying to
    work out what route the data follows if I am using Visual Studio like that
    :-)

    --
    Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
    The world will not be destroyed by those who do evil but by those who
    watch them without doing anything. (Albert Einstein)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chris@21:1/5 to Jeff Gaines on Tue Dec 6 18:04:18 2022
    Jeff Gaines <jgnewsid@outlook.com> wrote:
    On 06/12/2022 in message <tmmtl4$6p80$1@dont-email.me> Chris wrote:

    You don't mention it but do you have a wired network or is it all wifi? If >> it's all wifi you may struggle for bandwidth doing all those backups and
    filesharing. I toyed with the idea but even with only one machine on a
    fileshare over wifi was painful.

    Hi Chris.

    It's a Tenda Nova Mesh system (also recommended by Jaimie, there's only
    one person to blame if things go wrong round here) that gets the WiFi from the incoming box to a cube on my desk which is then connected by a patch cable to a switch which has the 2 desktops and the QNAP plugged into it. Anything going by WiFi to that cube may be slower than a cabled connection but the main machines and QNAP are effectively wired.

    Ok. I guess those don't differ from the same half-duplex restriction as standard wifi routers.

    To add to the fun I usually sit in the lounge with my monster Dell M6800
    on my lap driving the desktops by RDP, it makes my brain hurt trying to
    work out what route the data follows if I am using Visual Studio like that :-)


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jaimie Vandenbergh@21:1/5 to All on Tue Dec 6 18:41:56 2022
    On 6 Dec 2022 at 09:56:15 GMT, ""Jeff Gaines"" <jgnewsid@outlook.com>
    wrote:

    On 06/12/2022 in message <tmmtl4$6p80$1@dont-email.me> Chris wrote:

    You don't mention it but do you have a wired network or is it all wifi? If >> it's all wifi you may struggle for bandwidth doing all those backups and
    filesharing. I toyed with the idea but even with only one machine on a
    fileshare over wifi was painful.

    Hi Chris.

    It's a Tenda Nova Mesh system (also recommended by Jaimie, there's only
    one person to blame if things go wrong round here)

    Haha! Should all be fine, wifi these days isn't so broken as it used to
    be. More channels in parallel, more radios in the APs.

    Cheers - Jaimie

    --
    If you think it's simple, then you have misunderstood the problem
    -- Bjarne Stroustrup

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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