• Is There Hell

    From course zealot@21:1/5 to All on Thu Dec 12 18:04:16 2019
    There are many hells, and infinite heavens, and many many, many many, places in between, perhaps such as the world, though the world is neutral and what you make
    it. As are heaven and hell neutral, as all the many worlds are within you.

    No one deserves hell, and no one deserves punishment. No one deserves poverty, and no one deserves prison. No one deserves handicap or sickness at all. But what everyone deserves is freedom from injustice, and possibly recompenses. Victimizer deserve to repent and go and sin no more. Every Saint has a past. Every sinner has a future. Two wrongs don't make a right. Or else three do.

    "The Holy Spirit teaches thus: There is no hell. Hell is only what the ego has made of the present. The belief in hell is what prevents you from understanding
    the present, because you are afraid of it. The Holy Spirit leads as steadily to
    Heaven as the ego drives to hell. For the Holy Spirit, Who knows only the present, uses it to undo the fear by which the ego would make the present useless.
    There is no escape from fear in the ego's use of time. For time, according to
    its teaching, is nothing but a teaching device for compounding guilt until it becomes all-encompassing, demanding vengeance forever.

    The Holy Spirit would undo all of this now. Fear is not of the present, but only
    of the past and future, which do not exist. There is no fear in the present when
    each instant stands clear and separated from the past, without its shadow reaching
    out into the future. Each instant is a clean, untarnished birth, in which the Son
    of God emerges from the past into the present. And the present extends forever.
    It is so beautiful and so clean and free of guilt that nothing but happiness is there. No darkness is remembered, and immortality and joy are now.

    This lesson takes no time. For what is time without a past and future? It has taken time to misguide you so completely, but it takes no time at all to be what
    you are. Begin to practice the Holy Spirit's use of time as a teaching aid to happiness and peace. Take this very instant, now, and think of it as all there is
    of time. Nothing can reach you here out of the past, and it is here that you are
    completely absolved, completely free and wholly without condemnation. From this
    holy instant wherein holiness was born again you will go forth in time without fear, and with no sense of change with time.

    Time is inconceivable without change, yet holiness does not change. Learn from this instant more than merely that hell does not exist. In this redeeming instant
    lies Heaven. And Heaven will not change, for the birth into the holy present is
    salvation from change. Change is an illusion, taught by those who cannot see themselves as guiltless. There is no change in Heaven because there is no change
    in God. In the holy instant, in which you see yourself as bright with freedom, you will remember God. For remembering Him *is* to remember freedom."
    - A Course in Miracles, Chapter 15, Section 1

    From instant to instant we can measure change, and thus movement, but:

    "Whenever we move from one instant to the next, the previous one no longer exists."
    - A Course in Miracles, Urtext, Unedited Edition, pp. 78

    But,

    "The moment is forever,"
    - Childlike Empress, The Neverending Story, p. 98

    "If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. And
    if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day returns to
    you, saying, ‘I repent,’ you shall forgive him.”
    - Jesus Christ, Luke 17:3-4, Holy Bible, New Testament, NKJV

    There is forgiveness for the repentant.

    If satan presides over hell, he must be a sadist. Therefore sadism is satanism too. Some people in our world try to depress depression with pills. Others in our world try to restrict our freedom as of right.

    Others in our world recognize our happiness and freedom as of right. I do.


    "I am entitled to miracles"
    - A Course in Miracles, Workbook, Lesson 77

    "My happiness and my function are one."
    - A Course in Miracles, Workbook, Lesson 66

    "God, being Love, is also happiness."
    - A Course in Miracles, Workbook, Lesson 103

    vengeance = blood atonement...

    Truly evil and unintelligence must go hand in hand.


    "God wills no one suffer. He does not will anyone to suffer for a wrong decision,
    including you."
    - A Course in Miracles, Chapter 8, Section 3

    "I will with God that none of His Sons should suffer."
    - Jesus Christ, A Course in Miracles, Chapter 6, Section 1

    What is hell ultimately, but really bad feelings, and having to live with people
    you don't want to; and prison.


    "The mind can make the belief in separation very real and very fearful, and this
    belief is the "devil. "It is powerful, active, destructive and clearly in opposition to God, because it literally denies His Fatherhood. Look at your life
    and see what the devil has made. But realize that this making will surely dissolve in the light of truth, because its foundation is a lie. Your creation by
    God is the only Foundation that cannot be shaken, because the light is in it." - A Course in Miracles, Chapter 3, Section 7

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From course zealot@21:1/5 to All on Thu Dec 12 18:04:52 2019
    Ebola and Leprosy are the likes of what we deal with, and murderers and capital criminals make us desperate men. If somebody killed your spouse and child and cut
    off your hand, and wasn't sorry, would you just blow them away or want to? And if
    they were sorry would it make any difference? And if you were driving along a windy dark road, and hit an icy patch and went off the road and your spouse and child died, and you lost your hand, and there was nobody to blame, and it was nobody's fault, how would that compare?

    While we have a right to fight for freedom, and self-defense, Vengeance = blood atonement

    No one deserves hell, and no one deserves punishment. No one deserves poverty, and no one deserves prison. No one deserves handicap or sickness at all. But what everyone deserves is freedom from injustice, and possibly recompenses. Victimizer deserve to repent and go and sin no more. Every Saint has a past. Every sinner has a future. Two wrongs don't make a right. Or else three do.

    I don't know what you think, but I don't care if I've killed 150 million people.
    Do you want to reconcile, or do you want me to kill 150 million more.

    _I love me_. If you don't love me, I hate you.


    So granted you have to turn that around, someone's killed off half my society, I'm
    the President because I'm all that's left. So they've killed 150 million, they've
    raped, murdered, burned innocent men, women, children, alive, committed every horror known in a horror movie, on video. Maybe you think you have the upper hand, maybe you think they do. You ask them, well are you going to live next door
    to me, or far away, they go I don't know. What are you going to do?

    Do you want to reconcile, or do you want them to kill 150 million more?

    For the sake of blood atonement do you demand vengeance. Do you think one more wrong will make a right? So their lie won't persist, whether or not they're repentant?

    Doesn't the Bible say "leave vengeance to God?" While the governments and the rogues of the world say "leave vengeance to me."

    And what if there's no hell? Most people don't believe in it anyway. If you do,
    maybe you'll go there. Some Muslims who killed near 3,000 on 911 believed they would each get 77 virgins or some such thing.

    Didn't you hear the part about "Jesus died for our sins?" That doesn't justify sin. But it _does_ absolve us all from punishment. "and we can see. And we can
    see!" - A Course in Miracles

    If Christ can raise the dead. Then you have hope of salvation. And if he can't,
    then why do you believe in condemnation of any form?

    The same Spirit who raised Christ Jesus from the dead dwells in you:

    "And if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His
    Spirit who dwells in you."
    - Paul the Apostle, Romans 8:11, Holy Bible, New Testament

    If the same Spirit who raised Christ Jesus from the dead dwells in you, then to screw you would be to screw that Spirit. And so it is.

    So you might as well screw yourself. What you're doing to others you're doing to
    yourself in many ways on many levels:

    "Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for
    I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you
    visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’
    “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and
    feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? When did we see You a stranger and take
    You in, or naked and clothe You? Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and
    come to You?’ And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you,
    inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’" - Jesus Christ, Matt 25:34-40

    "God wills no one suffer. He does not will anyone to suffer for a wrong decision,
    including you."
    - A Course in Miracles, Chapter 8, Section 3

    "I will with God that none of His Sons should suffer."
    - Jesus Christ, A Course in Miracles, Chapter 6, Section 1


    Paul the Apostle:
    "But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, whose
    minds the god of this age (Satan) has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light
    of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them."


    "[God] made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but
    of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
    But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because
    of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,
    how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?
    For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory.
    For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory
    that excels.
    For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious. Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech- unlike Moses,
    who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away.
    But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in
    the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ.
    But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.
    Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
    But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.

    Therefore, since we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we do not lose
    heart.
    But we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness nor handling the word of God deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth commending
    ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God."

    "And since we have the same spirit of faith, according to what is written, "I believed and therefore I spoke," {Psalm 116:10} we also believe and therefore speak - "

    "For all things are for your sakes, that grace, having spread through the many, may cause thanksgiving to abound to the glory of God."

    "Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ,
    and has given us the ministry of reconciliation,
    that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation. Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us:
    we implore you on Christ's behalf, be reconciled to God."

    - Paul the Apostle, 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 3:6-4:2, 4:13, 4:15 5:18-20

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From course zealot@21:1/5 to All on Thu Dec 12 18:05:58 2019
    Is that the person whom you jacked wants to jack you back possibly.

    Some servant of hell perhaps.

    And what do you care. You're with you, and you defend you. (if you can't reconcile or make enriching recompenses to them)

    And what do they care? If they jacked you, you're going to get them huh?

    If they keep choosing you, maybe you'll defend yourself. But otherwise? So you
    don't merely pursue them to the grave, if from beyond the grave; you pursue them
    beyond the grave? You're a torturer? You think you'll make yourself happier? I
    think Satan has a place for you among the people with black eyes. I think you'll
    leave one day, very upset. I don't think you're being sane. And I think you're
    interested in self harm. So is every cop and court in this land.

    No one deserves punishment. But everyone deserves freedom from injustice. Victims
    perhaps deserve recompenses.


    "The mind can make the belief in separation very real and very fearful, and this
    belief is the "devil. "It is powerful, active, destructive and clearly in opposition to God, because it literally denies His Fatherhood. Look at your life
    and see what the devil has made. But realize that this making will surely dissolve in the light of truth, because its foundation is a lie. Your creation by
    God is the only Foundation that cannot be shaken, because the light is in it." - A Course in Miracles, Chapter 3, Section 7

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From course zealot@21:1/5 to All on Thu Dec 12 18:11:49 2019
    Ebola and Leprosy are the likes of what we deal with, and murderers and capital criminals make us desperate men. If somebody killed your spouse and child and cut
    off your hand, and wasn't sorry, would you just blow them away or want to? And if
    they were sorry would it make any difference? And if you were driving along a windy dark road, and hit an icy patch and went off the road and your spouse and child died, and you lost your hand, and there was nobody to blame, and it was nobody's fault, how would that compare?

    While we have a right to fight for freedom, and self-defense, Vengeance = blood atonement

    No one deserves hell, and no one deserves punishment. No one deserves poverty, and no one deserves prison. No one deserves handicap or sickness at all. But what everyone deserves is freedom from injustice, and possibly recompenses. Victimizer deserve to repent and go and sin no more. Every Saint has a past. Every sinner has a future. Two wrongs don't make a right. Or else three do.

    I don't know what you think, but I don't care if I've killed 150 million people.
    Do you want to reconcile, or do you want me to kill 150 million more.

    _I love me_. If you don't love me, I hate you.


    So granted you have to turn that around, someone's killed off half my society, I'm
    the President because I'm all that's left. So they've killed 150 million, they've
    raped, murdered, burned innocent men, women, children, alive, committed every horror known in a horror movie, on video. Maybe you think you have the upper hand, maybe you think they do. You ask them, well are you going to live next door
    to me, or far away, they go I don't know. What are you going to do?

    Do you want to reconcile, or do you want them to kill 150 million more?

    For the sake of blood atonement do you demand vengeance. Do you think one more wrong will make a right? So their lie won't persist, whether or not they're repentant?

    Doesn't the Bible say "leave vengeance to God?" While the governments and the rogues of the world say "leave vengeance to me."

    And what if there's no hell? Most people don't believe in it anyway. If you do,
    maybe you'll go there. Some Muslims who killed near 3,000 on 911 believed they would each get 77 virgins or some such thing.

    Didn't you hear the part about "Jesus died for our sins?" That doesn't justify sin. But it _does_ absolve us all from punishment. "and we can see. And we can
    see!" - A Course in Miracles

    If Christ can raise the dead. Then you have hope of salvation. And if he can't,
    then why do you believe in condemnation of any form?

    The same Spirit who raised Christ Jesus from the dead dwells in you:

    "And if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His
    Spirit who dwells in you."
    - Paul the Apostle, Romans 8:11, Holy Bible, New Testament

    If the same Spirit who raised Christ Jesus from the dead dwells in you, then to screw you would be to screw that Spirit. And so it is.

    So you might as well screw yourself. What you're doing to others you're doing to
    yourself in many ways on many levels:

    "Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for
    I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you
    visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’
    “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and
    feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? When did we see You a stranger and take
    You in, or naked and clothe You? Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and
    come to You?’ And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you,
    inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.’" - Jesus Christ, Matt 25:34-40

    "God wills no one suffer. He does not will anyone to suffer for a wrong decision,
    including you."
    - A Course in Miracles, Chapter 8, Section 3

    "I will with God that none of His Sons should suffer."
    - Jesus Christ, A Course in Miracles, Chapter 6, Section 1


    Paul the Apostle:
    "But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, whose
    minds the god of this age (Satan) has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light
    of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them."


    "[God] made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but
    of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
    But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because
    of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,
    how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?
    For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory.
    For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory
    that excels.
    For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious. Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech- unlike Moses,
    who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away.
    But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in
    the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ.
    But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.
    Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
    But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.

    Therefore, since we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we do not lose
    heart.
    But we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness nor handling the word of God deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth commending
    ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God."

    "And since we have the same spirit of faith, according to what is written, "I believed and therefore I spoke," {Psalm 116:10} we also believe and therefore speak - "

    "For all things are for your sakes, that grace, having spread through the many, may cause thanksgiving to abound to the glory of God."

    "Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ,
    and has given us the ministry of reconciliation,
    that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation. Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us:
    we implore you on Christ's behalf, be reconciled to God."

    - Paul the Apostle, 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 3:6-4:2, 4:13, 4:15 5:18-20

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From course zealot@21:1/5 to All on Thu Dec 12 18:07:27 2019
    That we're attacked all the time in this world is apparent,
    People who attack ruin our self-esteem, and our happiness. They are sadists, and
    it is sad to live among the devils.

    If Satan presides over hell he must be a sadist. Therefore sadism is Satanism too.

    "To heal is to make happy." We are here on earth to make others happy.

    Hell exists, and no one deserves it. There are many hells, and infinite heavens,
    and many, many, many, many, places in between, such as "Earth," though the world
    is neutral and what you make it. As are heaven and hell neutral, as all the many
    worlds are within you. Hell is ultimately really bad feelings, and having to live
    with people you don't want to live with, and prison. No one deserves hell. No one deserves punishment. Punishment is deportation to segregated housing where the
    victim is intentionally deprived and impoverished. Such incarceration is capital
    punishment. People imprisoned almost certainly die younger than they would of, making the penalty "death by incarceration." And their body is stolen while they
    are incarcerated, making the punishment capital. No one deserves punishment, and
    everyone deserves freedom from injustice, and victims possibly deserve recompenses.

    So as I repeat, no one deserves hell, and we appreciate dissolving it, and no one
    deserves punishment.

    All bad things come to an end, and as the Course teaches, all thoughts of love are
    true for all time - if only because you choose them.

    Further,
    "Any ability that anyone develops has the potentiality for good. To this there is
    no exception..."

    "Psychic" abilities have been used to call upon the devil, which merely means to
    strengthen the ego."
    - A Course in Miracles

    "Yet here is also a great channel of hope and healing in the Holy Spirit's service."
    - A Course in Miracles

    "Evil does not exist at all... Evil in its nature is neither a thing nor does it
    bring anything forth... All things which are, by the very fact that they are, are
    good and come from good; but insofar as they are deprived of good, they are neither good nor do they exist."
    - St. Dionysius the Areopagite - First "bishop" of Athens (attributed)

    Truly evil is to do something against another's will, for that is a contradiction,
    and thus that is an error. Capital crimes are the greatest, for freedom is right, and murder is wrong. Stealing a poor man's uninsured horse may be capital.
    Someone with Ebola is a danger to others, and truly all crime is but a disease.
    Poverty is the root of all kinds of evil, and those who attack are poor. (NKJV,ACIM)

    Unintelligence and evil go hand in hand.

    An attack upon an evil doer, which insults and condemns and blames, and vilifies
    the evil doer, as worse than a person merely with Ebola, is an "ad-hominem" attack. The person may be a "known demon," but they are also, in truth, a "known
    son of god."

    Thought precedes action.

    No one ever got 100% on every academic test. They are not guilty for making errors on a test. Erroneous thought precedes erroneous action. Good thought precedes good action.

    Insult is hate speech.

    Hate speech which preaches hell and Satan, and punishment, advocates hell and Satan, and punishment.

    Punishment is wilful malicious violence with deliberative aforethought, and is sadistic hatred, and is condemnable.


    Hate speech precedes the action of rationalized [or justified] violence, which is
    sadistic attack and service to evil.

    It therefore is close to either threatening, or advocating, such [evil] attack/[crime]. Whether advocating attack; or punishment - which is crime on crime.

    Jesus saves people from hell, he doesn't put them there.


    If your true religion is ultimately Truth, and not form or concept, then an insult
    of a religion may not quite insult you personally, but may still be perceived as
    insulting.

    So someone is not insulting your religion, if your religion is the Truth, or if the Truth is your religion, but is just lying.


    "Satan accuses our brethren before our God, day and night" Revelations 12:10

    "Do not marvel, my brethren, if the world hates you. We know that we have passed
    from death to life, because we love one another."
    - St. John the Divine, 1 John 3:13-14a, Holy Bible, New Testament

    “If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. If you
    were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the
    world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember
    the word that I said to you, ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they
    persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. If they kept My word, they will keep
    yours also. But all these things they will do to you for My name’s sake, because
    they do not know Him who sent Me. If I had not come and spoken to them, they would have no sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin. He who hates Me hates My Father also. If I had not done among them the works which no one else did, they would have no sin; but now they have seen and also hated both Me and My
    Father. But this happened that the word might be fulfilled which is written in their law, ‘They hated Me without a cause.’"
    - Jesus Christ, John 15:18-25, Holy Bible, New Testament, NKJV

    "If God is for us, who can be against us?
    "As it is written:
    “For Your sake we are killed all day long;
    We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.”
    Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us." - Romans 8:36-37
    read whole good passage: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+8%3A31-39&version=NKJV

    To send someone to punishment or to hell, is to bring them to destruction and not
    to bring them to justice (motivations for crime = property, sex, & criminal insanity, (and maybe fighting the government - which shouldn't be an issue in a civilized country); motivations for punishment = guilt, vengeance, & deterrence =
    all 3 untenable, while 3 contemplatively tenable motivations for punishment = 1.
    Prevention/segregation, - 2. That the victimizer knows what they're doing to others, - & 3. That the victimizer's lie doesn't persist, whether it's "might makes right" or otherwise; in which case I guess the victim(s) doesn't have strong
    faith. Attack is insult. Would it make a difference if: 1. Someone killed your
    spouse, and child, and cut off your hand and wasn't repentant, or 2. If they _were_ repentant, or 3. If you got in an accident, and with no one to blame, and
    your spouse and child died and you lost your hand.

    Our law enforcement has too much faith in violence, hell and death. The lawless
    who believe murderers are "men of respect," are likewise. Everyone deserves respect. Murderers and bullies if temporarily excepted. - It's not like we are with _law_, in terms of being under it, but it's not like we are with crime. People should understand contradiction, and error, and fundamental law, and respect one another, and thus, through intelligence, be brought to justice, and not to destruction. - We are to live by grace and the pen, and not the law and the sword - Yet self defense _is_ the first law of nature; and human rights hang
    on self defense (self-defense may be the last law of nature also). We have an unequivocal and uninfringable right to fight for freedom and self defense. Wars
    are fought over property and freedom. When men have neither property nor freedom
    they have nothing to live for. Poverty leads to war and war leads to poverty. Mutually assured destruction is unequivocally the end of war.

    all that punishment is, is criminal insanity.
    This is evident because they're trying to do something you _don't want_.

    You may just say "I want everything" or anything they do, confounding their insult
    and their unequivocal attempts to hurt you.



    "And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; being filled with all unrighteousness, ...wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to
    parents, undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
    Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever
    you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those
    who practice such things."
    - Romans 1:28-2:2



    "I once asked you to sell all you have and give to the poor and follow me. This
    is what I meant: If you have no investment in anything in this world, you can teach the poor where their treasure is. The poor are merely those who have invested wrongly, and they are poor indeed! Because they are in need it is given
    you to help them, since you are among them. Consider how perfectly your lesson would be learned if you were unwilling to share their poverty. For poverty is lack, and there is but one lack since there is but one need.
    Suppose a brother insists on having you do something you think you do not want to
    do. His very insistence should tell you that he believes salvation lies in it. If
    you insist on refusing and experience a quick response of opposition, you are believing that your salvation lies in not doing it. You, then, are making the same
    mistake he is, and are making his error real to both of you. Insistence means investment, and what you invest in is always related to your notion of salvation.
    The question is always twofold; first, what is to be saved? And second, how can it
    be saved?"


    "Whenever you become angry with a brother, for whatever reason, you are believing
    that the ego is to be saved, and to be saved by attack. If he attacks, you are agreeing with this belief; and if you attack, you are reinforcing it. Remember that those who attack are poor. Their poverty asks for gifts, not for further impoverishment. You who could help them are surely acting destructively if you accept their poverty as yours. If you had not invested as they had, it would never
    occur to you to overlook their need.


    Recognize what does not matter, and if your brothers ask you for something "outrageous," do it because it does not matter. Refuse, and your opposition establishes that it does matter to you. It is only you, therefore, who have made
    the request outrageous, and every request of a brother is for you. Why would you
    insist in denying him? For to do so is to deny yourself and impoverish both. he is
    asking for salvation, as you are. Poverty is of the ego, and never of God. No "outrageous" requests can be made of one who recognizes what is valuable and wants
    to accept nothing else.
    Salvation is for the mind, and it is attained through peace. This is the only thing that can be saved and the only way to save it. Any response other than love
    arises from a confusion about the "what" and the "how" of salvation, and this is
    the only answer. Never lose sight of this, and never allow yourself to believe, even for an instant, that there is another answer. For you will surely place yourself among the poor, who do not understand that they dwell in abundance and that salvation is come.
    To identify with the ego is to attack yourself and make yourself poor. That is why
    everyone who identifies with the ego feels deprived. What he experiences then is
    depression or anger, because what he did was to exchange self-love for self-hate,
    making him afraid of himself. he does not realize this. Even if he is fully aware
    of anxiety he does not perceive its source as his own ego identification, and he
    always tries to handle it by making some sort of insane "arrangement" with the world. He always perceives this world as outside himself, for this is crucial to
    his adjustment. He does not realize that he makes this world, for there is no world outside of him.
    If only the loving thoughts of God's Son are the world's reality, the real world
    must be in his mind. His insane thoughts, too, must be in his mind, but an internal conflict of this magnitude he cannot tolerate. A split mind is endangered, and the recognition that it encompasses completely opposed thoughts within itself is intolerable. Therefore the mind projects the split, not the reality. Everything you perceive as the outside world is merely your attempt to maintain your ego identification, for everyone believes that identification is salvation. Yet consider what has happened, for thoughts do have consequences to the thinker. You have become at odds with the world as you perceive it, because you think it is antagonistic to you. This is a necessary consequence of what you
    have done. You have projected outward what is antagonistic to what is inward, and
    therefore you would have to perceive it this way. That is why you must realize that your hatred is in your mind and not outside it before you can get rid of it;
    and why you must get rid of it before you can perceive the world as it really is.

    I said before that God so loved the world that he gave it to his only begotten Son. God does love the real world, and those who perceive its reality cannot see
    the world of death. For death is not of the real world, in which everything reflects the eternal. God gave you the real world in exchange for the one you made
    out of your split mind, and which is the symbol of death. For if you could really
    separate yourself from the Mind of God you would die.
    The world you perceive is a world of separation. Perhaps you are willing to accept
    even death to deny your Father. Yet he would not have it so, and so it is not so.
    You still cannot will against him, and that is why you have no control over the world you made. It is not a world of will because it is governed by the desire to
    be unlike God, and this desire is not will. The world you made is therefore totally chaotic, governed by arbitrary and senseless "laws," and without meaning
    of any kind. For it is made out of what you do not want, projected from your mind
    because you are afraid of it. Yet this world is only in the mind of its maker, along with his real salvation. Do not believe it is outside of yourself, for only
    by recognizing where it is will you gain control over it. For you do have control
    over your mind, since the mind is the mechanism of decision.
    If you will recognize that all the attack you perceive is in your own mind and nowhere else, you will at last have placed its source, and where it begins it must
    end. For in this same place also lies salvation. The altar of God where Christ abideth is there. You have defiled the altar, but not the world. Yet Christ has placed the Atonement on the altar for you. Bring your perceptions of the world to
    this altar, for it is the altar to truth. There you will see your vision changed,
    and there you will learn to see truly. From this place, where God and his Son dwell in peace and where you are welcome, you will look out in peace and behold the world truly. Yet to find the place, you must relinquish your investment in the
    world as you project it, allowing the Holy Spirit to extend the real world to you
    from the altar of God."
    - A Course in Miracles, Chapter 12, Section 7

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From course zealot@21:1/5 to All on Thu Dec 12 18:08:21 2019
    "The acceptance of guilt into the mind of God's Son was the beginning of the separation, as the acceptance of the Atonement is its end. The world you see is
    the delusional system of those made mad by guilt. Look carefully at this world,
    and you will realize that this is so. For this world is the symbol of punishment,
    and all the laws that seem to govern it are the laws of death. Children are born
    into it through pain and in pain. Their growth is attended by suffering, and they
    learn of sorrow and separation and death. Their minds seem to be trapped in their
    brain, and its powers to decline if their bodies are hurt. They seem to love, yet
    they desert and are deserted. They appear to lose what they love, perhaps the most insane belief of all. And their bodies wither and gasp and are laid in the
    ground, and are no more. Not one of them but has thought that God is cruel. If
    this were the real world, God would be cruel.

    This world is a picture of the crucifixion of God's Son. And until you realize that God's Son cannot be crucified, this is the world you will see. Yet you will
    not realize this until you accept the eternal fact that God's Son is not guilty.
    He deserves only love because he has given only love. He cannot be condemned because he has never condemned. The Atonement is the final lesson he need learn,
    for it teaches him that, never having sinned, he has no need of salvation."
    - A Course in Miracles, Chapter 13, Introduction


    The real world is the world of light in your mind. And you can overcome the world, but it's just health wealth, and people problems.

    But, I ask, can you overcome the adversary? Can you overcome people problems?

    If two miracle workers disagree, what then?


    "Does one whose vision has already glimpsed the face of Christ look back with longing on a slaughter house?"
    - A Course in Miracles, Manual for Teachers, 13, "What Is the Real Meaning of Sacrifice?"
    "No one who has escaped the world and all its ills looks back on it with condemnation. Yet he must rejoice that he is free of all the sacrifice its values
    would demand of him."

    "God's Word assures you that He loves the world; your judgment says it is unlovable. Who is right? For one of you is wrong. It must be so."
    Manual for Teachers, Section 11, How Is Peace Possible in This World?


    "I said before that God so loved the world that he gave it to his only begotten Son. God does love the real world, and those who perceive its reality cannot see
    the world of death. For death is not of the real world, in which everything reflects the eternal. God gave you the real world in exchange for the one you made
    out of your split mind, and which is the symbol of death. For if you could really
    separate yourself from the Mind of God you would die.
    The world you perceive is a world of separation."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From course zealot@21:1/5 to All on Thu Dec 12 18:13:19 2019
    Is that the person whom you jacked wants to jack you back possibly.

    Some servant of hell perhaps.

    And what do you care. You're with you, and you defend you. (if you can't reconcile or make enriching recompenses to them)

    And what do they care? If they jacked you, you're going to get them huh?

    If they keep choosing you, maybe you'll defend yourself. But otherwise? So you
    don't merely pursue them to the grave, if from beyond the grave; you pursue them
    beyond the grave? You're a torturer? You think you'll make yourself happier? I
    think Satan has a place for you among the people with black eyes. I think you'll
    leave one day, very upset. I don't think you're being sane. And I think you're
    interested in self harm. So is every cop and court in this land.

    No one deserves punishment. But everyone deserves freedom from injustice. Victims
    perhaps deserve recompenses.


    "The mind can make the belief in separation very real and very fearful, and this
    belief is the "devil. "It is powerful, active, destructive and clearly in opposition to God, because it literally denies His Fatherhood. Look at your life
    and see what the devil has made. But realize that this making will surely dissolve in the light of truth, because its foundation is a lie. Your creation by
    God is the only Foundation that cannot be shaken, because the light is in it." - A Course in Miracles, Chapter 3, Section 7

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From course zealot@21:1/5 to All on Thu Dec 12 18:12:34 2019
    There are many hells, and infinite heavens, and many many, many many, places in between, perhaps such as the world, though the world is neutral and what you make
    it. As are heaven and hell neutral, as all the many worlds are within you.

    No one deserves hell, and no one deserves punishment. No one deserves poverty, and no one deserves prison. No one deserves handicap or sickness at all. But what everyone deserves is freedom from injustice, and possibly recompenses. Victimizer deserve to repent and go and sin no more. Every Saint has a past. Every sinner has a future. Two wrongs don't make a right. Or else three do.

    "The Holy Spirit teaches thus: There is no hell. Hell is only what the ego has made of the present. The belief in hell is what prevents you from understanding
    the present, because you are afraid of it. The Holy Spirit leads as steadily to
    Heaven as the ego drives to hell. For the Holy Spirit, Who knows only the present, uses it to undo the fear by which the ego would make the present useless.
    There is no escape from fear in the ego's use of time. For time, according to
    its teaching, is nothing but a teaching device for compounding guilt until it becomes all-encompassing, demanding vengeance forever.

    The Holy Spirit would undo all of this now. Fear is not of the present, but only
    of the past and future, which do not exist. There is no fear in the present when
    each instant stands clear and separated from the past, without its shadow reaching
    out into the future. Each instant is a clean, untarnished birth, in which the Son
    of God emerges from the past into the present. And the present extends forever.
    It is so beautiful and so clean and free of guilt that nothing but happiness is there. No darkness is remembered, and immortality and joy are now.

    This lesson takes no time. For what is time without a past and future? It has taken time to misguide you so completely, but it takes no time at all to be what
    you are. Begin to practice the Holy Spirit's use of time as a teaching aid to happiness and peace. Take this very instant, now, and think of it as all there is
    of time. Nothing can reach you here out of the past, and it is here that you are
    completely absolved, completely free and wholly without condemnation. From this
    holy instant wherein holiness was born again you will go forth in time without fear, and with no sense of change with time.

    Time is inconceivable without change, yet holiness does not change. Learn from this instant more than merely that hell does not exist. In this redeeming instant
    lies Heaven. And Heaven will not change, for the birth into the holy present is
    salvation from change. Change is an illusion, taught by those who cannot see themselves as guiltless. There is no change in Heaven because there is no change
    in God. In the holy instant, in which you see yourself as bright with freedom, you will remember God. For remembering Him *is* to remember freedom."
    - A Course in Miracles, Chapter 15, Section 1

    From instant to instant we can measure change, and thus movement, but:

    "Whenever we move from one instant to the next, the previous one no longer exists."
    - A Course in Miracles, Urtext, Unedited Edition, pp. 78

    But,

    "The moment is forever,"
    - Childlike Empress, The Neverending Story, p. 98

    "If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. And
    if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day returns to
    you, saying, ‘I repent,’ you shall forgive him.”
    - Jesus Christ, Luke 17:3-4, Holy Bible, New Testament, NKJV

    There is forgiveness for the repentant.

    If satan presides over hell, he must be a sadist. Therefore sadism is satanism too. Some people in our world try to depress depression with pills. Others in our world try to restrict our freedom as of right.

    Others in our world recognize our happiness and freedom as of right. I do.


    "I am entitled to miracles"
    - A Course in Miracles, Workbook, Lesson 77

    "My happiness and my function are one."
    - A Course in Miracles, Workbook, Lesson 66

    "God, being Love, is also happiness."
    - A Course in Miracles, Workbook, Lesson 103

    vengeance = blood atonement...

    Truly evil and unintelligence must go hand in hand.


    "God wills no one suffer. He does not will anyone to suffer for a wrong decision,
    including you."
    - A Course in Miracles, Chapter 8, Section 3

    "I will with God that none of His Sons should suffer."
    - Jesus Christ, A Course in Miracles, Chapter 6, Section 1

    What is hell ultimately, but really bad feelings, and having to live with people
    you don't want to; and prison.


    "The mind can make the belief in separation very real and very fearful, and this
    belief is the "devil. "It is powerful, active, destructive and clearly in opposition to God, because it literally denies His Fatherhood. Look at your life
    and see what the devil has made. But realize that this making will surely dissolve in the light of truth, because its foundation is a lie. Your creation by
    God is the only Foundation that cannot be shaken, because the light is in it." - A Course in Miracles, Chapter 3, Section 7

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From course zealot@21:1/5 to All on Thu Dec 12 20:34:13 2019
    There are many hells, and infinite heavens, and many many, many many, places in between, perhaps such as the world, though the world is neutral and what you make
    it. As are heaven and hell neutral, as all the many worlds are within you.

    No one deserves hell, and no one deserves punishment. No one deserves poverty, and no one deserves prison. No one deserves handicap or sickness at all. But what everyone deserves is freedom from injustice, and possibly recompenses. Victimizer deserve to repent and go and sin no more. Every Saint has a past. Every sinner has a future. Two wrongs don't make a right. Or else three do.

    "The Holy Spirit teaches thus: There is no hell. Hell is only what the ego has made of the present. The belief in hell is what prevents you from understanding
    the present, because you are afraid of it. The Holy Spirit leads as steadily to
    Heaven as the ego drives to hell. For the Holy Spirit, Who knows only the present, uses it to undo the fear by which the ego would make the present useless.
    There is no escape from fear in the ego's use of time. For time, according to
    its teaching, is nothing but a teaching device for compounding guilt until it becomes all-encompassing, demanding vengeance forever.

    The Holy Spirit would undo all of this now. Fear is not of the present, but only
    of the past and future, which do not exist. There is no fear in the present when
    each instant stands clear and separated from the past, without its shadow reaching
    out into the future. Each instant is a clean, untarnished birth, in which the Son
    of God emerges from the past into the present. And the present extends forever.
    It is so beautiful and so clean and free of guilt that nothing but happiness is there. No darkness is remembered, and immortality and joy are now.

    This lesson takes no time. For what is time without a past and future? It has taken time to misguide you so completely, but it takes no time at all to be what
    you are. Begin to practice the Holy Spirit's use of time as a teaching aid to happiness and peace. Take this very instant, now, and think of it as all there is
    of time. Nothing can reach you here out of the past, and it is here that you are
    completely absolved, completely free and wholly without condemnation. From this
    holy instant wherein holiness was born again you will go forth in time without fear, and with no sense of change with time.

    Time is inconceivable without change, yet holiness does not change. Learn from this instant more than merely that hell does not exist. In this redeeming instant
    lies Heaven. And Heaven will not change, for the birth into the holy present is
    salvation from change. Change is an illusion, taught by those who cannot see themselves as guiltless. There is no change in Heaven because there is no change
    in God. In the holy instant, in which you see yourself as bright with freedom, you will remember God. For remembering Him *is* to remember freedom."
    - A Course in Miracles, Chapter 15, Section 1

    From instant to instant we can measure change, and thus movement, but:

    "Whenever we move from one instant to the next, the previous one no longer exists."
    - A Course in Miracles, Urtext, Unedited Edition, pp. 78

    But,

    "The moment is forever,"
    - Childlike Empress, The Neverending Story, p. 98

    "If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. And
    if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day returns to
    you, saying, ‘I repent,’ you shall forgive him.”
    - Jesus Christ, Luke 17:3-4, Holy Bible, New Testament, NKJV

    There is forgiveness for the repentant.

    If satan presides over hell, he must be a sadist. Therefore sadism is satanism too. Some people in our world try to depress depression with pills. Others in our world try to restrict our freedom as of right.

    Others in our world recognize our happiness and freedom as of right. I do.


    "I am entitled to miracles"
    - A Course in Miracles, Workbook, Lesson 77

    "My happiness and my function are one."
    - A Course in Miracles, Workbook, Lesson 66

    "God, being Love, is also happiness."
    - A Course in Miracles, Workbook, Lesson 103

    vengeance = blood atonement...

    Truly evil and unintelligence must go hand in hand.


    "God wills no one suffer. He does not will anyone to suffer for a wrong decision,
    including you."
    - A Course in Miracles, Chapter 8, Section 3

    "I will with God that none of His Sons should suffer."
    - Jesus Christ, A Course in Miracles, Chapter 6, Section 1

    What is hell ultimately, but really bad feelings, and having to live with people
    you don't want to; and prison.


    "The mind can make the belief in separation very real and very fearful, and this
    belief is the "devil. "It is powerful, active, destructive and clearly in opposition to God, because it literally denies His Fatherhood. Look at your life
    and see what the devil has made. But realize that this making will surely dissolve in the light of truth, because its foundation is a lie. Your creation by
    God is the only Foundation that cannot be shaken, because the light is in it." - A Course in Miracles, Chapter 3, Section 7

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From course zealot@21:1/5 to All on Thu Dec 12 20:34:42 2019
    Is that the person whom you jacked wants to jack you back possibly.

    Some servant of hell perhaps.

    And what do you care. You're with you, and you defend you. (if you can't reconcile or make enriching recompenses to them)

    And what do they care? If they jacked you, you're going to get them huh?

    If they keep choosing you, maybe you'll defend yourself. But otherwise? So you
    don't merely pursue them to the grave, if from beyond the grave; you pursue them
    beyond the grave? You're a torturer? You think you'll make yourself happier? I
    think Satan has a place for you among the people with black eyes. I think you'll
    leave one day, very upset. I don't think you're being sane. And I think you're
    interested in self harm. So is every cop and court in this land.

    No one deserves punishment. But everyone deserves freedom from injustice. Victims
    perhaps deserve recompenses.


    "The mind can make the belief in separation very real and very fearful, and this
    belief is the "devil. "It is powerful, active, destructive and clearly in opposition to God, because it literally denies His Fatherhood. Look at your life
    and see what the devil has made. But realize that this making will surely dissolve in the light of truth, because its foundation is a lie. Your creation by
    God is the only Foundation that cannot be shaken, because the light is in it." - A Course in Miracles, Chapter 3, Section 7

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)