• A BUTTERFLY MOVING AROUND DOESN'T OFFEND - (re-edited)

    From course zealot@21:1/5 to All on Mon Dec 16 00:46:45 2019
    A butterfly moving around doesn't offend, but it won't land on your hand and do what you want, and if it infests your house it does offend.

    I'm saying, it's just people moving around.

    What is salvation but to overcome the world, or to know God, or both?

    And what is to overcome the world, but to overcome health, wealth, and people problems?

    And what are people problems, but lawlessness, oppression, and war?

    When Jesus says "I have overcome the world," in A Course in Miracles and the Bible, does he mean also he has overcome the adversary?

    What happens if two miracle workers disagree?

    "For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face." 1 Corinthians 13:11

    When the figure in the mirror moves, who moved? The answer is obvious.

    Are we responsible for other's movements?

    "If you will recognize that all the attack [disagreement] you perceive is in your
    own mind and nowhere else, you will at last have placed its source, and where it
    begins it must end. For in this same place also lies salvation.
    ...Yet to find the place, you must relinquish your investment in the world as you
    _project_ it, allowing [Your] Holy Spirit to _extend_ the real world to you from
    the altar of God."
    - A Course in Miracles, "The Holy Spirit's Curriculum" Chapter 12; "The Investment in Reality" Section 3

    Basically if we are responsible for other's movements, we must be responsible for
    other's thoughts:

    "There is another vision and another voice in which your freedom lies, awaiting your choice. And if you place your faith in them, you will perceive another self
    in you. This other self sees miracles as natural. They are as simple and as natural to it as breathing to the body. They are the obvious response to calls for help, the only one it makes. Miracles seem unnatural to the ego because it does not understand how separate minds can influence each other. Nor *could* they
    do so. But minds cannot be separate. This other self is perfectly aware of this.
    And thus it recognizes that miracles do not affect another's mind, only its own.
    They always change *your* mind. There is no other."
    - A Course in Miracles, "Reason and Perception" Chapter 21, "The Function of Reason" Section 5
    "You do not realize the whole extent to which the idea of separation has interfered with reason."

    When you get to the point that you "perceive another self in you," it is not as if
    "outside," like separate from you and the ego, which is merely the thought of separation. But...


    When Jesus says "I have overcome the world," in A Course in Miracles and the Bible, does he mean also he has overcome the adversary?

    For when infinite power chooses infinite power, the infinite power choosing the other infinite power negatively _ought_ to loose, and when everyone loves one another, Solipsism wins, as true relationships say "what do *you* want?," "no, what do *you* want?"

    But apparently some people are unintelligent, are crazy, and don't love us.

    Are you saying they're just going to obey us because we love them or something? Granted, as Anne Frank says, all people are good at heart.
    If you think you have a heart of darkness, because other's have hurt you, and you
    thus want to hurt others, you need to know, that you're only hurting yourself more, if you ever will waken to your right mind in this lifetime, before you die.
    You don't _want_ other people to be made sad, and yet law enforcement even take jobs as sadists.

    Are we still to use miracles for war?

    How do Moses' war miracles - striking the Egyptians first born dead, swamping the
    Egyptian army in the Red Sea, etc., compare to Jesus' miracles, who never hurt anyone:

    "And as they went, they entered a village of the Samaritans, to prepare for Him.
    53 But they did not receive Him, because His face was set for the journey to Jerusalem. 54 And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said, “Lord, do
    You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as Elijah did?”
    55 But He turned and rebuked them, and said, “You do not know what manner of spirit you are of. 56 For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives but
    to save them.” And they went to another village."
    - Luke 9:52

    "47 And while He was still speaking, behold, a multitude; and he who was called Judas, one of the twelve, went before them and drew near to Jesus to kiss Him. 48
    But Jesus said to him, “Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?”
    49 When those around Him saw what was going to happen, they said to Him, “Lord,
    shall we strike with the sword?” 50 And one of them struck the servant of the high
    priest and cut off his right ear.
    51 But Jesus answered and said, “Permit even this.” And He touched his ear and
    healed him." - Luke 22:47


    It's solipsism vs. duality.

    I want you to know you're the only one in the Universe and so am I.
    What will we see, if we disagree, upon the color of the sky.

    A Course in Miracles teaches you are the only one in the Universe. But then, so
    is that little ant out there, and so is everybody else. Responsible for everything that's ever happened, is happening, or ever will happen. What a big responsibility, for you, to be the savior of the Universe.

    No concept of a God, existent without a concept of you, has any meaning (though this is just in concepts and concepts, I think, aren't even actually, what is).

    YOU exist, and God can have no meaning apart from you.

    God loves you. Why don't you love yourself?


    "I and My Father are one.”
    - Jesus Christ, John 10:30, Holy Bible, New Testament, NKJV


    "Freedom is the only gift you can offer to God's Sons, being an acknowledgment of
    what they are and what he is. Freedom is creation, because it is love. Whom you
    seek to imprison you do not love. Therefore, when you seek to imprison anyone, including yourself, you do not love him and you cannot identify with him. When you imprison yourself you are losing sight of your true identification with me and
    with the Father. Your identification is with the Father and with the Son. It cannot be with One and not the Other. If you are part of One you must be part of
    the Other, because They are One. The Holy Trinity is holy because It is One. If
    you exclude yourself from this union, you are perceiving the Holy Trinity as separated. You must be included in It, because It is everything. Unless you take
    your place in It and fulfill your function as part of It, the Holy Trinity is as
    bereft as you are. No part of It can be imprisoned if Its truth is to be known."
    - A Course in Miracles, Chapter 8, Section 4

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From course zealot@21:1/5 to All on Mon Dec 16 00:47:59 2019
    A butterfly moving around doesn't offend, but it won't land on your hand and do what you want, and if it infests your house it does offend.

    I'm saying, it's just people moving around.

    What is salvation but to overcome the world, or to know God, or both?

    And what is to overcome the world, but to overcome health, wealth, and people problems?

    And what are people problems, but lawlessness, oppression, and war?

    When Jesus says "I have overcome the world," in A Course in Miracles and the Bible, does he mean also he has overcome the adversary?

    What happens if two miracle workers disagree?

    "For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face." 1 Corinthians 13:11

    When the figure in the mirror moves, who moved? The answer is obvious.

    Are we responsible for other's movements?

    "If you will recognize that all the attack [disagreement] you perceive is in your
    own mind and nowhere else, you will at last have placed its source, and where it
    begins it must end. For in this same place also lies salvation.
    ...Yet to find the place, you must relinquish your investment in the world as you
    _project_ it, allowing [Your] Holy Spirit to _extend_ the real world to you from
    the altar of God."
    - A Course in Miracles, "The Holy Spirit's Curriculum" Chapter 12; "The Investment in Reality" Section 3

    Basically if we are responsible for other's movements, we must be responsible for
    other's thoughts:

    "There is another vision and another voice in which your freedom lies, awaiting your choice. And if you place your faith in them, you will perceive another self
    in you. This other self sees miracles as natural. They are as simple and as natural to it as breathing to the body. They are the obvious response to calls for help, the only one it makes. Miracles seem unnatural to the ego because it does not understand how separate minds can influence each other. Nor *could* they
    do so. But minds cannot be separate. This other self is perfectly aware of this.
    And thus it recognizes that miracles do not affect another's mind, only its own.
    They always change *your* mind. There is no other."
    - A Course in Miracles, "Reason and Perception" Chapter 21, "The Function of Reason" Section 5
    "You do not realize the whole extent to which the idea of separation has interfered with reason."

    When you get to the point that you "perceive another self in you," it is not as if
    "outside," like separate from you and the ego, which is merely the thought of separation. But...


    When Jesus says "I have overcome the world," in A Course in Miracles and the Bible, does he mean also he has overcome the adversary?

    For when infinite power chooses infinite power, the infinite power choosing the other infinite power negatively _ought_ to loose, and when everyone loves one another, Solipsism wins, as true relationships say "what do *you* want?," "no, what do *you* want?"

    But apparently some people are unintelligent, are crazy, and don't love us.

    Are you saying they're just going to obey us because we love them or something? Granted, as Anne Frank says, all people are good at heart.
    If you think you have a heart of darkness, because other's have hurt you, and you
    thus want to hurt others, you need to know, that you're only hurting yourself more, if you ever will waken to your right mind in this lifetime, before you die.
    You don't _want_ other people to be made sad, and yet law enforcement even take jobs as sadists.

    Are we still to use miracles for war?

    How do Moses' war miracles - striking the Egyptians first born dead, swamping the
    Egyptian army in the Red Sea, etc., compare to Jesus' miracles, who never hurt anyone:

    "And as they went, they entered a village of the Samaritans, to prepare for Him.
    53 But they did not receive Him, because His face was set for the journey to Jerusalem. 54 And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said, “Lord, do
    You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as Elijah did?”
    55 But He turned and rebuked them, and said, “You do not know what manner of spirit you are of. 56 For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives but
    to save them.” And they went to another village."
    - Luke 9:52

    "47 And while He was still speaking, behold, a multitude; and he who was called Judas, one of the twelve, went before them and drew near to Jesus to kiss Him. 48
    But Jesus said to him, “Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?”
    49 When those around Him saw what was going to happen, they said to Him, “Lord,
    shall we strike with the sword?” 50 And one of them struck the servant of the high
    priest and cut off his right ear.
    51 But Jesus answered and said, “Permit even this.” And He touched his ear and
    healed him." - Luke 22:47


    It's solipsism vs. duality.

    I want you to know you're the only one in the Universe and so am I.
    What will we see, if we disagree, upon the color of the sky.

    A Course in Miracles teaches you are the only one in the Universe. But then, so
    is that little ant out there, and so is everybody else. Responsible for everything that's ever happened, is happening, or ever will happen. What a big responsibility, for you, to be the savior of the Universe.

    No concept of a God, existent without a concept of you, has any meaning (though this is just in concepts and concepts, I think, aren't even actually, what is).

    YOU exist, and God can have no meaning apart from you.

    God loves you. Why don't you love yourself?


    "I and My Father are one.”
    - Jesus Christ, John 10:30, Holy Bible, New Testament, NKJV


    "Freedom is the only gift you can offer to God's Sons, being an acknowledgment of
    what they are and what he is. Freedom is creation, because it is love. Whom you
    seek to imprison you do not love. Therefore, when you seek to imprison anyone, including yourself, you do not love him and you cannot identify with him. When you imprison yourself you are losing sight of your true identification with me and
    with the Father. Your identification is with the Father and with the Son. It cannot be with One and not the Other. If you are part of One you must be part of
    the Other, because They are One. The Holy Trinity is holy because It is One. If
    you exclude yourself from this union, you are perceiving the Holy Trinity as separated. You must be included in It, because It is everything. Unless you take
    your place in It and fulfill your function as part of It, the Holy Trinity is as
    bereft as you are. No part of It can be imprisoned if Its truth is to be known."
    - A Course in Miracles, Chapter 8, Section 4

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)