• Bump

    From course zealot@21:1/5 to Voter on Thu Dec 12 20:25:55 2019
    On 12/7/2019 5:36 PM, Voter wrote:
    We don't want tan lines. We want to be able to lay out naked and not get tan lines. And if somebody else is offended, that's their fucking problem, just like
    if they're offended by an interracial relationship, that's their fucking problem.
    Nudity is *not* sexual harassment, such as flashing - if it matters.

    Sexuality is not a crime!


    Freedom is not a crime!

    Freedom is a right!

    Nudity is a form of Freedom!

    You have a right to freedom!

    Down with the oppression of the United States!

    Down with the United States criminal justice system!

    Down with the nuts!

    Restore the justice of freedom and liberty, which has been promised since 1776*!


    "Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free,
    and do not become entangled again with a yoke of bondage.

    For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; ...through love serve one another.

    For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this:

    You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

    - Paul the Apostle, Galatians 5:1,13,14, Holy Bible, New Testament


    "What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have
    attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; but Israel, pursuing
    the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law.
    For they stumbled at that stumbling stone. As it is written:

    Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense,
    And whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.

    Brethren, my hearts desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according
    to knowledge. For they being ignorant of Gods righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God.
    For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

    For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, The man who does
    those things shall live by them. But the righteousness of faith speaks in this
    way, Do not say in your heart, Who will ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above) or, Who will descend into the abyss? (that
    is, to bring Christ up from the dead). But what does it say? The word is near
    you, in your mouth and in your heart (that is, the word of faith which we preach)"
    - Paul The Apostle, Romans 9:30-10:8, Holy Bible, New Testament, NKJV


    We are under law towards Truth. Yet we are not under law towards condemnation.

    Imposing your subjective values onto others is objectively wrong and immoral.

    Democracy is not the author of the law, or morality, any more than of mathematics.

    Sex is a positive holy religious activity which shouldn't be condemned,
    yet unsafe sex is immoral.

    Everyone should use two or three disparate types of birth control, concurrently,
    and abort unplanned pregnancies in the first trimester/14 weeks/three months, before there is a brain or ghost in the fetus. Unplanned childbirth is the scourge of nations.

    If Paul condemned sexuality, I do not corroborate him there,
    yet he said many fine things which prove he's a Saint.

    Sex makes people happy, and sex is relationships from the bottom up,
    and sex is part of many valid holy religions such as Taoism, Tantra, Echankar, and
    my personal interpretation of any religion.

    Really sex is energy, you can give one another energy orgasms without touching one
    another through your clothes. Research "energy orgasms," if you want to see.

    Sex is an activity like any sport or activity, and it is no one, and not Paul's
    right, to judge it, nor condemn it, but to lead others, rather in their personal
    ministry without denigration.

    For,
    "Satan accuses our brethren before our God, day and night" Revelations 12:10

    "there is therefore, now no condemnation to those who are in Christ," - Romans 8:1

    But,
    "if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation" - 2 Corinthians 5:17

    "For He made Him, who knew no sin, to be sin for us;
    that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." - 2 Corinthians 5:21


    "There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves
    punishment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love."
    - St. John the Divine, 1 John 4:18, Holy Bible, New Testament

    "God is love."
    - St. John the Divine, 1 John 4:8, 4:16, Holy Bible, New Testament, NKJV

    And,
    "This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you:
    that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all."
    - St. John the Divine, 1 John 1:5, Holy Bible, New Testament, NKJV


    "What then, shall we sin, for we are not under law, but under grace?

    Certainly not!"

    "For the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law
    of sin and death."


    Like our bodies aren't supposed to be beautiful and glorious as the sunrise?

    We don't want tan lines!

    FREEDOM NOW!


    *"For happily the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance requires only that they who live under its
    protection should demean themselves as good citizens, in giving it on all occasions their effectual support." - General of the Armies, Commander George Washington, First President of the United States of America, 1776

    TO BIGOTRY NO SANCTION, TO PERSECUTION NO ASSISTANCE!


    "and yes, I did cut down my father's cherry tree, and cannot tell a lie."


    https://www.biblegateway.com/





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  • From course zealot@21:1/5 to course zealot on Thu Dec 12 20:26:11 2019
    On 12/11/2019 1:35 PM, course zealot wrote:
    HATE HAS NO PLACE IN AMERICA.

    HATE ON HATE IS STILL HATE.

    LEADERSHIP AND ADVOCATION IS IS WHAT THE WORLD NEEDS, AND IS THE MINISTRY OF JESUS.

    "I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”
    - Jesus Christ, Luke 5:32

    "the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives but to save them.”
    - Jesus Christ, Luke 9:52


    "If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. And
    if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day returns to
    you, saying, ‘I repent,’ you shall forgive him.”
    - Jesus Christ, Luke 17:3-4, Holy Bible, New Testament, NKJV


    "Therefore, whatever you want others to do to you, do also to them, for this is
    the Law and the Prophets."
    - Jesus Christ, Matt 7:12


    Paul the Apostle:
    "[God] made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but
    of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
    But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so
    that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because
    of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,
    how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?
    For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory.
    For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory
    that excels.
    For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious. Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech- unlike Moses,
    who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away.
    But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in
    the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.
    Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
    But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord,
    are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.

    Therefore, since we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we do not lose
    heart.
    But we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness nor
    handling the word of God deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth commending
    ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God."

    "And since we have the same spirit of faith, according to what is written, "I believed and therefore I spoke," {Psalm 116:10} we also believe and therefore speak - "

    "For all things are for your sakes, that grace, having spread through the many, may cause thanksgiving to abound to the glory of God."

    "Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation,
    that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
    Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading
    through us: we implore you on Christ's behalf, be reconciled to God."

    - Paul the Apostle, 2 Corinthians 3:6-4:2, 4:13, 4:15 5:18-20

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  • From course zealot@21:1/5 to course zealot on Thu Dec 12 20:25:25 2019
    On 12/11/2019 1:26 PM, course zealot wrote:
    - A COURSE IN MIRACLES IS NOT A CROCK OF CRAP -

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  • From course zealot@21:1/5 to course zealot on Thu Dec 12 20:27:01 2019
    On 12/9/2019 5:49 PM, course zealot wrote:
    IS IT OKAY TO POST PERSISTENT OFF-TOPIC POSTS?

    I MEAN LIKE, SAY IF SOMEONE WAS TO POST PERSISTENT OFF-TOPIC POSTS;
    SHOULD THEY STILL BE AWARE THEY ARE OFF-TOPIC, AND MAYBE MORE APPROPRIATE ON A
    BOARD REGARDING THEIR SUBJECT MATTER?

    OR DO YOU THINK MAYBE WE SHOULD MAYBE DISCUSS WHICH DOG BREEDS ARE BEST ON THIS
    BOARD TOO?


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  • From course zealot@21:1/5 to course zealot on Thu Dec 12 20:28:02 2019
    On 12/9/2019 5:56 PM, course zealot wrote:
    I didn't think they were...

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  • From course zealot@21:1/5 to genewardsmith on Thu Dec 12 20:28:54 2019
    On 11/23/2019 9:45 AM, genewardsmith wrote:
    The meaning of mind and editing changes - by Gene W. Smith

    In this article we undertake to compare the Second Edition of A Course in Miracles with the Hugh Lynn Cayce (HLC) [nowadays: Original Edition or Sparkly] version of the Text. We adopt a system of referencing a sentence from this version of the Text by
    means of four numbers separated by periods. The first number is the chapter, the second the section, the third the paragraph within the section, and the fourth the sentence within the paragraph.

    Let us begin by looking at the following passage from the Second Edition:

    "I have repeatedly emphasized that one level of the mind is not understandable to another. So it is with athe ego and the Holy Spirit; with time and eternity. Eternity is an idea of God, so the Holy Spirit understands it perfectly. Time is a belief of
    the ego, so the lower mind, which is the ego's domain, accepts it without question. The only aspect of time that is eternal is now." T-5.III.6

    On its face, this passage is a little curious, since it seems to suggest that the Holy Spirit is a level of the mind. To be that, the Holy Spirit would presumably need to have been split off, or dissociated. Yet the Course tells us the Holy Spirit is a
    response to the separation, which had already dissociated us into levels

    (T-5.II.2.5). Is the Holy Spirit then not a creation, but a way of referring to that level of our mind which is possessed of knowledge? If so, the Holy Spirit came to be within the world of separation as a result of the splitting into levels, and it
    therefore has no independent meaning in eternity. While some students favor this interpretation, the Course will not allow it, since "what God creates is eternal. The Holy Spirit will remain with the Sons of God, to bless their creations and keep them in
    the light of joy." (T-5.I.5:6-7)

    We could go on analyzing and speculating in this fashion for some time, but a completely different light is cast on the problem when we find that in the HLC, an earlier version of the Text, this passage reads as follows:

    "We have repeatedly emphasized that one level of the mind is not understandable to another. So it is with the ego and the Soul; with time and eternity. Eternity is an idea of God, so the Soul understands it perfectly. Time is a belief of the ego, so
    the lower mind, which is the ego's domain, accepts it without question. The only aspect of time which is really eternal is now." (5.5.5.1-5)

    How differently the problem now appears! The Soul and the ego are far more plausible as candidates for levels of the mind than the Holy Spirit and the ego. The new version of the Text in fact adds more detail about levels of the mind, allowing some
    understanding of what the Course means by its references to levels. We have in particular this:

    "In our picture of the psyche, there is an unconscious level which properly consists only of the miracle ability, and which should be under my direction. There is also a conscious level, which perceives or is aware of impulses from both the unconscious
    and the superconscious. Consciousness is thus the level of perception, but not of knowledge. Again, to perceive is not to know." (3.6.2.3-6)

    It seems the mind has an unconscious, a conscious, and a superconscious level. This raises the question as to what the relationship is between the Soul and the superconscious level of the mind.

    The mind returns to its proper function only when it wills to know. This places it in the Soul's service, where perception is meaningless. The superconscious is the level of the mind which wills this.

    "The mind chose to divide itself when it willed to create both its own levels and the ability to perceive, but it could not entirely separate itself from the Soul because it is from the Soul that it derives its whole power to create. Even in
    miscreation will is affirming its source, or it would merely cease to be. This is impossible because it is part of the Soul, which God created and which is therefore eternal." (3.6.7.5-3.6.8.3)

    The superconscious level is mind that wills to know, and hence is still in service of the Soul, which is the eternal Idea or Thought which God created when he created all Souls.

    The Course tells us that everything is Mind. However, it also draws a distinction between mind and spirit (in ACIM) or Soul (in HLC). To understand this, let us turn to the second Special Principle of Miracle workers, which in ACIM reads

    "A clear distinction between what is created and what is made is essential. All forms of healing rest on this fundamental correction in level perception. "

    In the HLC we find instead:

    "Clear distinction between what has been created and what is being created is essential. All forms of correction (or healing) rest on this fundamental correction in level perception."

    What "has been" created? In HLC, we find the following:

    "If it is understood that the mind, which is the only level of creation, cannot create beyond itself, neither type of confusion need occur. The reason only the mind can create is more obvious than may be immediately apparent. The Soul has been created."
    (2.3.3.4-2.3.4.2)

    The Soul, therefore, is Mind or Thought which has been created; we may distinguish Mind which expresses the Eternal Thought of God of its creation, and which has been created, Mind which has the creative or will power and which creates with God, and
    mind which uses this same power to miscreate, and hence to bring about a split into levels. Once the split into levels occurs, we have the Soul as the highest level, the superconscious mind as that level which is in service of the Soul, the level of
    ordinary consciousness, and the level below consciousness, which is the home of the miracle impulse.

    In connection with the editing decisions which resulted in the differences between the two versions, we are left with two questions. The first is what were the reasons for removing the material on levels of the mind, and the second is what were the
    reasons for rewriting the material in such a way that the Holy Spirit seems have been treated as a level of the mind, and not a Creation of God.

    One candidate as a reason is guidance from Jesus; indeed, many people feel that the Course as published represents the final version as approved by Jesus. If this is the case, we would not expect to find the sequence and connection of ideas becoming
    more confused as we pass from HLC to ACIM; the fact that we seem to find exactly that in this example and in the others we will consider below argues strongly against this belief. The result, which I consider to be firmly established, is that we may
    conclude that the Course as published does not represent the editorial work of Jesus; some of the editorial decisions seem clearly to be mistaken.

    Once we abandon, as reason compels us to abandon, the notion that the editorial changes were in general the result of guidance, we are led once again to consider what the reason for the changes in this case and in others might have been; in that
    connection it is important to consider if the changes represent a particular tendency of thought or of Course interpretation. Are they, in other words, in part the product of and reflective of the theological positions of the editors? That this is a
    possibility which must be considered emerges already from the one example we have so far looked at.

    Let us consider another passage from the published Course.

    "Healing is an ability that developed after the separation, before which it was unnecessary. Like all aspects of the belief in space and time, it is temporary. However, as long as time persists, healing is needed as a means of protection. This is
    because healing rests on charity, and charity is a way of perceiving the perfection of another even if you cannot perceive it in yourself. Most of the loftier concepts of which you are capable now are time-dependent. Charity is really a weaker reflection
    of a much more powerful love-encompassment that is far beyond any form of charity you can conceive of as yet. Charity is essential to right-mindedness in the limited sense in which it can now be attained. "

    "Charity is a way of looking at another as if he had already gone far beyond his actual accomplishments in time. Since his own thinking is faulty he cannot see the Atonement for himself, or he would have no need of charity. The charity that is accorded
    him is both an acknowledgment that he needs help, and a recognition that he will accept it. Both of these perceptions clearly imply their dependence on time, making it apparent that charity still lies within the limitations of this world. I said before
    that only revelation transcends time. The miracle, as an expression of charity, can only shorten it. It must be understood, however, that whenever you offer a miracle to another, you are shortening the suffering of both of you. This corrects
    retroactively as well as progressively." T-2.V.9-10

    I was very much struck by the unusual definition of charity given in this passage. The word "charity" comes from the Latin caritas, and in its original and theological sense it refers to the cardinal virtue of love; specifically, the higher, selfless, "
    supernatural" virtue of love spoken of in the New Testament. What is so striking about this definition is that it defines charity in such a way that it revolves around perceiving others differently than ourselves; "charity is a way of perceiving the
    perfection of another even if you cannot perceive it in yourself". Charity becomes the special virtue of those who do not love themselves; for even so they are able through it to love others.

    Alas, after arming ourselves with this new definition, we immediately find ourselves in trouble in the next paragraph. Here we learn that "Charity is a way of looking at another as if he had already gone far beyond his actual accomplishments in time."
    As we read on, we find that charity seems to involve looking past the imperfections of another, but we find nothing about looking past our own imperfections. Given the definition of charity, this seems a little peculiar; the sequence of thought falls
    short of entire clarity, and raises questions for which answers seem hard to find.

    Once again, sense returns to a confused situation when we find that this passage reads differently in the Hugh Lynn Cayce version of the Text:

    "Healing is an ability lent to man after the separation, before which it was completely unnecessary. Like all aspects of the space-time belief, healing ability is temporary. However, as long as time persists, healing is needed as a means for human
    protection. This is because healing rests on charity, and charity is a way of perceiving the perfection of another even if he cannot perceive it himself. "

    "Most of the loftier concepts of which man is capable now are time-dependent. Charity is really a weaker reflection of a much more powerful love-encompassment which is far beyond any form of charity that man can conceive of as yet. Charity is essential
    to right-mindedness in the limited sense in which right-mindedness can now be attained. Charity is a way of looking at another as if he had already gone far beyond his actual accomplishments in time. Since his own thinking is faulty he cannot see the
    Atonement for himself, or he would have no need for charity. The charity which is accorded him is both an acknowledgment that he is weak and a recognition that he could be stronger. "

    "The way in which both of these perceptions are stated clearly implies their dependence on time, making it quite apparent that charity lies within the human limitations, though toward its higher levels. We said before that only revelation transcends
    time. The miracle, as an expression of true human charity, can only shorten time at most. It must be understood, however, that whenever a man offers a miracle to another, he is shortening the suffering of both. This introduces a correction into the whole
    record which corrects retroactively as well as progressively." (2.3.18.3-2.3.20.4)

    This definition is much less striking than the one given in the published [ 2nd Edition] version, for the simple reason that it makes a great deal more sense on its face. It also completely solves the problem of making sense of the subsequent
    paragraphs. There seems little reason to doubt that this definition is the correct one, and that the editors, for whatever reason, made a mistake.

    We might also take note of the many small changes throughout this passage. As we so often find, there seems to be no good reason for them. Why change the scientific "space-time" to the more popular but less accurate "space and time"? Why the wholesale
    replacement throughout the Text of "man" with "you" or "you and your brothers"? Why was it trimmed here and there, since the result is a version somewhat less comprehensible, albeit shorter?

    Consider now the following sentence from the Second Edition: "'Lead us not into temptation' means 'Recognize your errors and choose to abandon them by following my guidance'." (T-1.III.4:7) This is undeniably a little cryptic; while we expect to find a
    reinterpretation, we also expect to be able to draw the connection between the original statement and its reinterpreted form. The connection between being led into temptation and following guidance is clear enough, but where does the recognition of
    errors enter the picture?

    In HLC we have instead the following, from Miracle Principle 36: "'Lead us not into temptation' means 'guide us out of our own errors.' 'Take up thy cross and follow me' means `recognize your errors and choose to abandon them by following my guidance.'"
    The connection between "lead us not into temptation" and "guide us out of our errors" is evident. "Take up thy cross and follow me" invites us onto the path of the Atonement even if the way be hard; "recognize your errors and choose to abandon them by
    following my guidance" does the same, since recognizing errors and choosing to abandon them can be experienced as a hard thing. What has been removed is any implication of sacrifice; rather than clinging to the old rugged cross, we are invited to abandon
    our errors and our foolish journeys to crucifixion. Again, clarity seems to have replaced confusion.

    Let us consider yet another example from the Second Edition, this time from the Miracle Principles. Miracle principle 38 tells us that "The Holy Spirit is the mechanism of miracles. He recognizes both God's creations and your illusions. He separates
    the true from the false by His ability to perceive totally rather than selectively." This seems both clear and unproblematic, unless one goes back a bit and tries to connect it to miracle principle 5, which has it that "Miracles are habits, and should be
    involuntary. They should not be under conscious control. Consciously selected miracles can be misguided."

    How, one might ask, can a miracle possibly be misguided if the mechanism of miracles is the Holy Spirit - our perfect Guide? Once again we could search and study and attempt to find an answer which reconciles the seeming contradiction, but once again a
    completely new light is cast on the matter by the discovery that miracle principle 39 in HLC, which corresponds to miracle principle 38 in ACIM, reads as follows:

    "The spiritual eye is the mechanism of miracles because what it perceives is true. It perceives both the Creations of God and the creations of man. Among the creations of man, it can also separate the true from the false by its ability to perceive
    totally, rather than selectively. It thus becomes the proper instrument for reality testing, which always involves the necessary distinction between the false and the true. "

    I've put "spiritual eye" in lower case in the above paragraph, and put into lower case as well the references to it as "it". This reflects my opinion, based on how it is used in HLC, that the editors of HLC erred in their belief, reflected in a
    footnote, that "spiritual eye" was synonymous with "Holy Spirit". I think it is clear that it is not; and the fact that it is not a reference to the Holy Spirit is what allows us to make sense of passages like this one.

    Indicative of the problems associated with identifying the spiritual eye with the Holy Spirit (an identification which is in fact not consistently carried out in ACIM, for the simple reason that attempting to do so will not work) is the following:

    "When the 'lies of the serpent' were introduced, they were specifically called 'lies' because they are not true. When man listened, all he heard was untruth. He does not have to continue to believe what is not true unless he chooses to do so. All of
    his miscreations can literally disappear in 'the twinkling of an eye,' because they are merely visual misperceptions. Man's spiritual eye can sleep, but a sleeping eye can still see. What is seen in dreams seems to be very real. The Bible mentions that '
    a deep sleep fell upon Adam,' and nowhere is there any reference to his waking up."

    Obviously "Man's spiritual eye can sleep" cannot be reconciled with any attempt to identify the spiritual eye with the Holy Spirit, and "a sleeping eye can still see" only compounds the problem. The identification of the spiritual eye with the Holy
    Spirit is therefore a mistake, and it is the spiritual eye (which from the passage above clearly belongs in the lower case, as it is capable of seeing the dream in place of what is real) which is the true mechanism of miracles. This in fact connects with
    our first example; the unconscious mind is the level of miracles, whereas miracle principle

    46 tells us:

    "The Holy Spirit is the highest communication medium. Miracles do not involve this type of communication, because they are temporary communication devices. When you return to your original form of communication with God by direct revelation, the need
    for miracles is over."

    This suggests the Holy Spirit has more to do with revelation than with miracles. The distinction is even clearer if we turn to miracle principle 49 in HLC, where we find instead:

    "The Holy Spirit is the Highest Communication Medium. Miracles do not involve this type of communication because they are temporary communication devices. When man returns to his original form of communication with God, the need for miracles is over.
    The Holy Spirit mediates higher to lower communication, keeping the direct channel from God to man open for revelation. Revelation is not reciprocal. It is always from God to man. The miracle is reciprocal because it involves equality."

    The Holy Spirit seems to be not the mechanism for miracles, but the motive and inspiration behind them; miracles are a response from mind below the level of consciousness to the Holy Spirit's inspiration from above. In this connection we may consider
    the following passage:

    "Healing is not creating; it is reparation. The Holy Spirit promotes healing by looking beyond it to what the children of God were before healing was needed, and will be when they have been healed. This alteration of the time sequence should be quite
    familiar, because it is very similar to the shift in the perception of time that the miracle introduces. The Holy Spirit is the motivation for miracle-mindedness; the decision to heal the separation by letting it go. Your will is still in you because God
    placed it in your mind, and although you can keep it asleep you cannot obliterate it." T-5.II.1:1-5

    This leads us directly to our final example. As we sometimes find, the word "will" in HLC, and presumably in the Urtext, has been replaced by another. Instead of "the will to heal" we find "the decision to heal". This leads to a problem in the sentence
    which follows, where "Your will" has no apparent referent; it seems perhaps to refer to one's power of free will in general terms. The version in ACIM goes on to say "God Himself keeps your will alive by transmitting it from His Mind to yours as long as
    there is time. The miracle itself is a reflection of this union of Will between Father and Son." This makes it clear that "will" must mean our true will, which we hold in union with the Father, but the connection with the discussion of healing is still
    not entirely clear. What we find instead in HLC is the following:

    "The Holy Spirit is the motivation for miracle-mindedness; the will to heal the separation by letting it go. This will is in you because God placed it in your mind, and although you can keep it asleep, you cannot obliterate it.

    God Himself keeps this will alive by transmitting it from His Mind to yours as long as there is time. It is partly His and partly yours. The miracle itself is just this fusion or union of will between Father and Son."

    Once again the published version of the Course is revealed to be less divinely inspired than we may have thought, as the obscurity of ACIM gives way to the clairity of the earlier HLC. We are led again to the conclusion that the editorial work of ACIM
    reflects the human fallibility of its editors, and that the notion that it represents the Course in its final and perfected form is not sustainable.


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  • From course zealot@21:1/5 to starchild on Thu Dec 12 20:29:16 2019
    On 12/11/2019 12:54 PM, starchild wrote:
    I don't know about Google Groups, I am reading this on, now, but Usenet, that has or had the original newsgroups had no rules and wasn't moderated. So, anyone could say whatever they wanted, and anyone could respond or not. Which seems to be the
    best, and most "mature" way to have a group. Not have some censor or moderator watching and deleting and banning and deciding what someone should/shouldn't read or say for us. Since you said what you asked if you could say, I think that pretty much
    answers your question. Being insulted, offended, angry, etcand what we do about it, is a personal choice.


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  • From course zealot@21:1/5 to starchild on Thu Dec 12 20:30:01 2019
    On 12/11/2019 12:58 PM, starchild wrote:
    On Monday, December 9, 2019 at 8:57:50 PM UTC-5, course zealot wrote:
    where did that board go?

    It's still here. I check in sometimes. I used to use a newsreader but don't have one now, and find it on Google Groups, I don't like (the format) as well. it would be nice if this group would get started again. I think everyone went to Facebook...


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  • From course zealot@21:1/5 to course zealot on Thu Dec 12 20:30:29 2019
    On 12/11/2019 2:54 PM, course zealot wrote:
    HATE HAS NO PLACE IN AMERICA.

    HATE ON HATE IS STILL HATE.

    LEADERSHIP AND ADVOCATION IS IS WHAT THE WORLD NEEDS, AND IS THE MINISTRY OF JESUS.

    "I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”
    - Jesus Christ, Luke 5:32

    "the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives but to save them.”
    - Jesus Christ, Luke 9:52


    "If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. And
    if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day returns to
    you, saying, ‘I repent,’ you shall forgive him.”
    - Jesus Christ, Luke 17:3-4, Holy Bible, New Testament, NKJV


    "Therefore, whatever you want others to do to you, do also to them, for this is
    the Law and the Prophets."
    - Jesus Christ, Matt 7:12


    Paul the Apostle:
    "[God] made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but
    of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
    But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so
    that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because
    of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,
    how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?
    For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory.
    For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory
    that excels.
    For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious. Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech- unlike Moses,
    who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away.
    But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in
    the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.
    Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
    But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord,
    are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.

    Therefore, since we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we do not lose
    heart.
    But we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness nor
    handling the word of God deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth commending
    ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God."

    "And since we have the same spirit of faith, according to what is written, "I believed and therefore I spoke," {Psalm 116:10} we also believe and therefore speak - "

    "For all things are for your sakes, that grace, having spread through the many, may cause thanksgiving to abound to the glory of God."

    "Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation,
    that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
    Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading
    through us: we implore you on Christ's behalf, be reconciled to God."

    - Paul the Apostle, 2 Corinthians 3:6-4:2, 4:13, 4:15 5:18-20


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  • From course zealot@21:1/5 to course zealot on Thu Dec 12 20:31:01 2019
    On 12/10/2019 7:39 PM, course zealot wrote:
    "It cannot be too strongly emphasized that this course aims at a complete reversal
    of thought. When this is finally accomplished, issues such as the validity of reincarnation become meaningless.

    Until then, they are likely to be merely controversial. The teacher of God is,
    therefore, wise to step away from all such questions, for he has much to teach and
    learn apart from them."

    It seems to say but only because they are likely to be controversial.


    "He should both learn and teach that theoretical issues but waste time, draining
    it away from its appointed purpose. If there are aspects to any concept or belief
    that will be helpful, he will be told about it. He will also be told how to use
    it. What more need he know?"
    acim, manual for teachers, sec.24, is reincarnation so?

    Yet:

    "A theoretical foundation such as the text provides is necessary as a framework to
    make the exercises in this workbook meaningful."
    - acim, workbook, first sentence

    It would seem, without a theoretical foundation of analytical concepts, we are
    sort of lost. Meditate on peace, or meditate on light? Or Chant? The Course
    doesn't mention Chanting.

    Are we trying to be religious scientists? separate the wheat from the chaff, etc.
    How is science not the answer? It would just seem that materialist/atheist/deathists scientists just disregard the self. Such as one
    whom believes in creationism, they start with preconceived ideas. It's one thing
    to try to prove a hypothesis, but perhaps they weren't good scientists _enough_.
    God can have no meaning without a concept of YOU. Quantum mechanics is now proving the SELF, and proving that an experiment has a different result when an
    observer is present.

    YOU exist, and God can have no meaning apart from you.

    A Course in Miracles teaches you are the only one in the Universe. But then, so
    is that little ant out there, and so is everybody else. Responsible for everything that's ever happened, is happening, or ever will happen. What a big
    responsibility, to be the savior of the Universe.

    God loves you. Why don't you love yourself?

    “a deep sleep fell upon Adam”. ... Mrs. Eddy was correct in emphasizing that
    nowhere is there any reference made to his waking up. While Christian Science is
    clearly incomplete, this point is much in its favor." - acim Urtext

    It's solipsism vs. duality.

    What happens if two miracle workers disagree?

    I want you to know you're the only one in the Universe and so am I.
    What will we see, if we disagree, upon the color of the sky.

    "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a
    child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a
    mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know
    just as I also am known."
    1 Corinthians 13:11

    When the figure in the mirror moves, who moved? The answer is obvious.

    What is salvation but to overcome the world, to know God, or both?

    And what is to overcome the world, but to overcome health, wealth, and people problems? And what are people problems, but lawlessness, oppression, and war?

    When Jesus says "I have overcome the world," in A Course in Miracles and the bible, does he mean also he has overcome the adversary?

    When infinite power chooses infinite power, the infinite power choosing the other
    infinite power negatively _ought_ to loose, and when everyone loves one another,
    Solipsism wins, as true relationships say "what do *you* want?," "no, what do *you* want?"

    but apparently these people are unintelligent, are crazy, and don't love us.

    Are you saying they're just going to obey us because we love them or something?
    Granted, as Anne Frank says, all people are good at heart. If you think you have
    a heart of darkness, because other's have hurt you, and you thus want to hurt others, you need to know, that you're only hurting yourself more, if you ever will
    waken to your right mind in this lifetime, before you die. You don't _want_ other
    people to be made sad, and yet law enforcement even take jobs as sadists.

    Are we still to use miracles for war?

    How do Moses' war miracles - striking the Egyptians first born dead, swamping the
    Egyptian army in the Red Sea, etc. compare to Jesus' miracles, who never hurt
    anyone:

    "And as they went, they entered a village of the Samaritans, to prepare for Him.
    53 But they did not receive Him, because His face was set for the journey to Jerusalem. 54 And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said, “Lord, do
    You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as
    Elijah did?”
    55 But He turned and rebuked them, and said, “You do not know what manner of
    spirit you are of. 56 For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives but
    to save them.” And they went to another village."
    - Luke 9:52

    "47 And while He was still speaking, behold, a multitude; and he who was called
    Judas, one of the twelve, went before them and drew near to Jesus to kiss Him. 48
    But Jesus said to him, “Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?”
    49 When those around Him saw what was going to happen, they said to Him, “Lord,
    shall we strike with the sword?” 50 And one of them struck the servant of the high
    priest and cut off his right ear.
    51 But Jesus answered and said, “Permit even this.” And He touched his ear and
    healed him." - Luke 22:47


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  • From course zealot@21:1/5 to course zealot on Thu Dec 12 20:32:21 2019
    On 12/12/2019 6:04 PM, course zealot wrote:
    There are many hells, and infinite heavens, and many many, many many, places in
    between, perhaps such as the world, though the world is neutral and what you make
    it. As are heaven and hell neutral, as all the many worlds are within you.

    No one deserves hell, and no one deserves punishment. No one deserves poverty,
    and no one deserves prison. No one deserves handicap or sickness at all. But
    what everyone deserves is freedom from injustice, and possibly recompenses. Victimizer deserve to repent and go and sin no more. Every Saint has a past. Every sinner has a future. Two wrongs don't make a right. Or else three do.

    "The Holy Spirit teaches thus: There is no hell. Hell is only what the ego has
    made of the present. The belief in hell is what prevents you from understanding
    the present, because you are afraid of it. The Holy Spirit leads as steadily to
    Heaven as the ego drives to hell. For the Holy Spirit, Who knows only the present, uses it to undo the fear by which the ego would make the present useless.
    There is no escape from fear in the ego's use of time. For time, according to
    its teaching, is nothing but a teaching device for compounding guilt until it becomes all-encompassing, demanding vengeance forever.

    The Holy Spirit would undo all of this now. Fear is not of the present, but only
    of the past and future, which do not exist. There is no fear in the present when
    each instant stands clear and separated from the past, without its shadow reaching
    out into the future. Each instant is a clean, untarnished birth, in which the Son
    of God emerges from the past into the present. And the present extends forever.
    It is so beautiful and so clean and free of guilt that nothing but happiness is
    there. No darkness is remembered, and immortality and joy are now.

    This lesson takes no time. For what is time without a past and future? It has
    taken time to misguide you so completely, but it takes no time at all to be what
    you are. Begin to practice the Holy Spirit's use of time as a teaching aid to
    happiness and peace. Take this very instant, now, and think of it as all there is
    of time. Nothing can reach you here out of the past, and it is here that you are
    completely absolved, completely free and wholly without condemnation. From this
    holy instant wherein holiness was born again you will go forth in time without
    fear, and with no sense of change with time.

    Time is inconceivable without change, yet holiness does not change. Learn from
    this instant more than merely that hell does not exist. In this redeeming instant
    lies Heaven. And Heaven will not change, for the birth into the holy present is
    salvation from change. Change is an illusion, taught by those who cannot see themselves as guiltless. There is no change in Heaven because there is no change
    in God. In the holy instant, in which you see yourself as bright with freedom,
    you will remember God. For remembering Him *is* to remember freedom."
    - A Course in Miracles, Chapter 15, Section 1

    From instant to instant we can measure change, and thus movement, but:

    "Whenever we move from one instant to the next, the previous one no longer exists."
    - A Course in Miracles, Urtext, Unedited Edition, pp. 78

    But,

    "The moment is forever,"
    - Childlike Empress, The Neverending Story, p. 98

    "If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. And
    if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day returns to
    you, saying, ‘I repent,’ you shall forgive him.”
    - Jesus Christ, Luke 17:3-4, Holy Bible, New Testament, NKJV

    There is forgiveness for the repentant.

    If satan presides over hell, he must be a sadist. Therefore sadism is satanism
    too. Some people in our world try to depress depression with pills. Others in
    our world try to restrict our freedom as of right.

    Others in our world recognize our happiness and freedom as of right. I do.


    "I am entitled to miracles"
    - A Course in Miracles, Workbook, Lesson 77

    "My happiness and my function are one."
    - A Course in Miracles, Workbook, Lesson 66

    "God, being Love, is also happiness."
    - A Course in Miracles, Workbook, Lesson 103

    vengeance = blood atonement...

    Truly evil and unintelligence must go hand in hand.


    "God wills no one suffer. He does not will anyone to suffer for a wrong decision,
    including you."
    - A Course in Miracles, Chapter 8, Section 3

    "I will with God that none of His Sons should suffer."
    - Jesus Christ, A Course in Miracles, Chapter 6, Section 1

    What is hell ultimately, but really bad feelings, and having to live with people
    you don't want to; and prison.


    "The mind can make the belief in separation very real and very fearful, and this
    belief is the "devil. "It is powerful, active, destructive and clearly in opposition to God, because it literally denies His Fatherhood. Look at your life
    and see what the devil has made. But realize that this making will surely dissolve in the light of truth, because its foundation is a lie. Your creation by
    God is the only Foundation that cannot be shaken, because the light is in it."
    - A Course in Miracles, Chapter 3, Section 7

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  • From course zealot@21:1/5 to course zealot on Thu Dec 12 20:35:07 2019
    On 12/12/2019 6:13 PM, course zealot wrote:
    "The mind can make the belief in separation very real and very fearful, and this
    belief is the "devil. "It is powerful, active, destructive and clearly in opposition to God, because it literally denies His Fatherhood. Look at your life
    and see what the devil has made. But realize that this making will surely dissolve in the light of truth, because its foundation is a lie. Your creation by
    God is the only Foundation that cannot be shaken, because the light is in it."
    - A Course in Miracles, Chapter 3, Section 7

    The CIA, the devil, who next?

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  • From Debra Dee McQueen Freeman@21:1/5 to course zealot on Thu Dec 12 22:02:51 2019
    On Thursday, December 12, 2019 at 11:25:52 PM UTC-5, course zealot wrote:
    On 12/7/2019 5:36 PM, Voter wrote:
    We don't want tan lines. We want to be able to lay out naked and not get tan
    lines. And if somebody else is offended, that's their fucking problem, just like
    if they're offended by an interracial relationship, that's their fucking problem.
    Nudity is *not* sexual harassment, such as flashing - if it matters.

    Sexuality is not a crime!


    Freedom is not a crime!

    Freedom is a right!

    Nudity is a form of Freedom!

    You have a right to freedom!

    Down with the oppression of the United States!

    Down with the United States criminal justice system!

    Down with the nuts!

    Restore the justice of freedom and liberty, which has been promised since 1776*!


    "Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free,
    and do not become entangled again with a yoke of bondage.

    For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; ...through love serve one another.

    For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this:

    “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

    - Paul the Apostle, Galatians 5:1,13,14, Holy Bible, New Testament


    "What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have
    attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; but Israel, pursuing
    the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. Why?
    Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law.
    For they stumbled at that stumbling stone. As it is written:

    “Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense,
    And whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”

    Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be
    saved. For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according
    to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to
    establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God.
    For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

    For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, “The man who does
    those things shall live by them.” But the righteousness of faith speaks in this
    way, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ ” (that is, to
    bring Christ down from above) or, “ ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ ” (that
    is, to bring Christ up from the dead). But what does it say? “The word is near
    you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach)"
    - Paul The Apostle, Romans 9:30-10:8, Holy Bible, New Testament, NKJV


    We are under law towards Truth. Yet we are not under law towards condemnation.

    Imposing your subjective values onto others is objectively wrong and immoral.

    Democracy is not the author of the law, or morality, any more than of mathematics.

    Sex is a positive holy religious activity which shouldn't be condemned,
    yet unsafe sex is immoral.

    Everyone should use two or three disparate types of birth control, concurrently,
    and abort unplanned pregnancies in the first trimester/14 weeks/three months,
    before there is a brain or ghost in the fetus. Unplanned childbirth is the scourge of nations.

    If Paul condemned sexuality, I do not corroborate him there,
    yet he said many fine things which prove he's a Saint.

    Sex makes people happy, and sex is relationships from the bottom up,
    and sex is part of many valid holy religions such as Taoism, Tantra, Echankar, and
    my personal interpretation of any religion.

    Really sex is energy, you can give one another energy orgasms without touching one
    another through your clothes. Research "energy orgasms," if you want to see.

    Sex is an activity like any sport or activity, and it is no one, and not Paul's
    right, to judge it, nor condemn it, but to lead others, rather in their personal
    ministry without denigration.

    For,
    "Satan accuses our brethren before our God, day and night" Revelations 12:10

    "there is therefore, now no condemnation to those who are in Christ," - Romans 8:1

    But,
    "if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation" - 2 Corinthians 5:17

    "For He made Him, who knew no sin, to be sin for us;
    that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." - 2 Corinthians 5:21


    "There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves
    punishment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love."
    - St. John the Divine, 1 John 4:18, Holy Bible, New Testament

    "God is love."
    - St. John the Divine, 1 John 4:8, 4:16, Holy Bible, New Testament, NKJV

    And,
    "This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you:
    that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all."
    - St. John the Divine, 1 John 1:5, Holy Bible, New Testament, NKJV


    "What then, shall we sin, for we are not under law, but under grace?

    Certainly not!"

    "For the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law
    of sin and death."


    Like our bodies aren't supposed to be beautiful and glorious as the sunrise?

    We don't want tan lines!

    FREEDOM NOW!


    *"For happily the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no
    sanction, to persecution no assistance requires only that they who live under its
    protection should demean themselves as good citizens, in giving it on all occasions their effectual support." - General of the Armies, Commander George
    Washington, First President of the United States of America, 1776

    TO BIGOTRY NO SANCTION, TO PERSECUTION NO ASSISTANCE!


    "and yes, I did cut down my father's cherry tree, and cannot tell a lie."


    https://www.biblegateway.com/





    Bump

    KTC

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  • From course zealot@21:1/5 to Voter on Mon Dec 16 00:45:58 2019
    On 12/7/2019 5:36 PM, Voter wrote:
    We don't want tan lines. We want to be able to lay out naked and not get tan lines. And if somebody else is offended, that's their fucking problem, just like
    if they're offended by an interracial relationship, that's their fucking problem.
    Nudity is *not* sexual harassment, such as flashing - if it matters.

    Sexuality is not a crime!


    Freedom is not a crime!

    Freedom is a right!

    Nudity is a form of Freedom!

    You have a right to freedom!

    Down with the oppression of the United States!

    Down with the United States criminal justice system!

    Down with the nuts!

    Restore the justice of freedom and liberty, which has been promised since 1776*!


    "Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free,
    and do not become entangled again with a yoke of bondage.

    For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; ...through love serve one another.

    For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this:

    “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

    - Paul the Apostle, Galatians 5:1,13,14, Holy Bible, New Testament


    "What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have
    attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; but Israel, pursuing
    the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law.
    For they stumbled at that stumbling stone. As it is written:

    “Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense,
    And whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”

    Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be
    saved. For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according
    to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to
    establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God.
    For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

    For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, “The man who does
    those things shall live by them.” But the righteousness of faith speaks in this
    way, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ ” (that is, to
    bring Christ down from above) or, “ ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ ” (that
    is, to bring Christ up from the dead). But what does it say? “The word is near
    you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach)"
    - Paul The Apostle, Romans 9:30-10:8, Holy Bible, New Testament, NKJV


    We are under law towards Truth. Yet we are not under law towards condemnation.

    Imposing your subjective values onto others is objectively wrong and immoral.

    Democracy is not the author of the law, or morality, any more than of mathematics.

    Sex is a positive holy religious activity which shouldn't be condemned,
    yet unsafe sex is immoral.

    Everyone should use two or three disparate types of birth control, concurrently,
    and abort unplanned pregnancies in the first trimester/14 weeks/three months, before there is a brain or ghost in the fetus. Unplanned childbirth is the scourge of nations.

    If Paul condemned sexuality, I do not corroborate him there,
    yet he said many fine things which prove he's a Saint.

    Sex makes people happy, and sex is relationships from the bottom up,
    and sex is part of many valid holy religions such as Taoism, Tantra, Echankar, and
    my personal interpretation of any religion.

    Really sex is energy, you can give one another energy orgasms without touching one
    another through your clothes. Research "energy orgasms," if you want to see.

    Sex is an activity like any sport or activity, and it is no one, and not Paul's
    right, to judge it, nor condemn it, but to lead others, rather in their personal
    ministry without denigration.

    For,
    "Satan accuses our brethren before our God, day and night" Revelations 12:10

    "there is therefore, now no condemnation to those who are in Christ," - Romans 8:1

    But,
    "if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation" - 2 Corinthians 5:17

    "For He made Him, who knew no sin, to be sin for us;
    that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." - 2 Corinthians 5:21


    "There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves
    punishment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love."
    - St. John the Divine, 1 John 4:18, Holy Bible, New Testament

    "God is love."
    - St. John the Divine, 1 John 4:8, 4:16, Holy Bible, New Testament, NKJV

    And,
    "This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you:
    that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all."
    - St. John the Divine, 1 John 1:5, Holy Bible, New Testament, NKJV


    "What then, shall we sin, for we are not under law, but under grace?

    Certainly not!"

    "For the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law
    of sin and death."


    Like our bodies aren't supposed to be beautiful and glorious as the sunrise?

    We don't want tan lines!

    FREEDOM NOW!


    *"For happily the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance requires only that they who live under its
    protection should demean themselves as good citizens, in giving it on all occasions their effectual support." - General of the Armies, Commander George Washington, First President of the United States of America, 1776

    TO BIGOTRY NO SANCTION, TO PERSECUTION NO ASSISTANCE!


    "and yes, I did cut down my father's cherry tree, and cannot tell a lie."


    https://www.biblegateway.com/



    Bump

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  • From course zealot@21:1/5 to Voter on Mon Dec 16 00:47:26 2019
    On 12/7/2019 5:36 PM, Voter wrote:
    We don't want tan lines. We want to be able to lay out naked and not get tan lines. And if somebody else is offended, that's their fucking problem, just like
    if they're offended by an interracial relationship, that's their fucking problem.
    Nudity is *not* sexual harassment, such as flashing - if it matters.

    Sexuality is not a crime!


    Freedom is not a crime!

    Freedom is a right!

    Nudity is a form of Freedom!

    You have a right to freedom!

    Down with the oppression of the United States!

    Down with the United States criminal justice system!

    Down with the nuts!

    Restore the justice of freedom and liberty, which has been promised since 1776*!


    "Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free,
    and do not become entangled again with a yoke of bondage.

    For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; ...through love serve one another.

    For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this:

    “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

    - Paul the Apostle, Galatians 5:1,13,14, Holy Bible, New Testament


    "What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have
    attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; but Israel, pursuing
    the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law.
    For they stumbled at that stumbling stone. As it is written:

    “Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense,
    And whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”

    Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be
    saved. For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according
    to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to
    establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God.
    For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

    For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, “The man who does
    those things shall live by them.” But the righteousness of faith speaks in this
    way, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ ” (that is, to
    bring Christ down from above) or, “ ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ ” (that
    is, to bring Christ up from the dead). But what does it say? “The word is near
    you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach)"
    - Paul The Apostle, Romans 9:30-10:8, Holy Bible, New Testament, NKJV


    We are under law towards Truth. Yet we are not under law towards condemnation.

    Imposing your subjective values onto others is objectively wrong and immoral.

    Democracy is not the author of the law, or morality, any more than of mathematics.

    Sex is a positive holy religious activity which shouldn't be condemned,
    yet unsafe sex is immoral.

    Everyone should use two or three disparate types of birth control, concurrently,
    and abort unplanned pregnancies in the first trimester/14 weeks/three months, before there is a brain or ghost in the fetus. Unplanned childbirth is the scourge of nations.

    If Paul condemned sexuality, I do not corroborate him there,
    yet he said many fine things which prove he's a Saint.

    Sex makes people happy, and sex is relationships from the bottom up,
    and sex is part of many valid holy religions such as Taoism, Tantra, Echankar, and
    my personal interpretation of any religion.

    Really sex is energy, you can give one another energy orgasms without touching one
    another through your clothes. Research "energy orgasms," if you want to see.

    Sex is an activity like any sport or activity, and it is no one, and not Paul's
    right, to judge it, nor condemn it, but to lead others, rather in their personal
    ministry without denigration.

    For,
    "Satan accuses our brethren before our God, day and night" Revelations 12:10

    "there is therefore, now no condemnation to those who are in Christ," - Romans 8:1

    But,
    "if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation" - 2 Corinthians 5:17

    "For He made Him, who knew no sin, to be sin for us;
    that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." - 2 Corinthians 5:21


    "There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves
    punishment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love."
    - St. John the Divine, 1 John 4:18, Holy Bible, New Testament

    "God is love."
    - St. John the Divine, 1 John 4:8, 4:16, Holy Bible, New Testament, NKJV

    And,
    "This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you:
    that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all."
    - St. John the Divine, 1 John 1:5, Holy Bible, New Testament, NKJV


    "What then, shall we sin, for we are not under law, but under grace?

    Certainly not!"

    "For the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law
    of sin and death."


    Like our bodies aren't supposed to be beautiful and glorious as the sunrise?

    We don't want tan lines!

    FREEDOM NOW!


    *"For happily the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance requires only that they who live under its
    protection should demean themselves as good citizens, in giving it on all occasions their effectual support." - General of the Armies, Commander George Washington, First President of the United States of America, 1776

    TO BIGOTRY NO SANCTION, TO PERSECUTION NO ASSISTANCE!


    "and yes, I did cut down my father's cherry tree, and cannot tell a lie."


    https://www.biblegateway.com/




    Bump

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  • From course zealot@21:1/5 to course zealot on Mon Dec 16 01:01:14 2019
    On 12/10/2019 7:39 PM, course zealot wrote:
    "It cannot be too strongly emphasized that this course aims at a complete reversal
    of thought. When this is finally accomplished, issues such as the validity of reincarnation become meaningless.

    Until then, they are likely to be merely controversial. The teacher of God is,
    therefore, wise to step away from all such questions, for he has much to teach and
    learn apart from them."

    It seems to say but only because they are likely to be controversial.


    "He should both learn and teach that theoretical issues but waste time, draining
    it away from its appointed purpose. If there are aspects to any concept or belief
    that will be helpful, he will be told about it. He will also be told how to use
    it. What more need he know?"
    acim, manual for teachers, sec.24, is reincarnation so?

    Yet:

    "A theoretical foundation such as the text provides is necessary as a framework to
    make the exercises in this workbook meaningful."
    - acim, workbook, first sentence

    It would seem, without a theoretical foundation of analytical concepts, we are
    sort of lost. Meditate on peace, or meditate on light? Or Chant? The Course
    doesn't mention Chanting.

    Are we trying to be religious scientists? separate the wheat from the chaff, etc.
    How is science not the answer? It would just seem that materialist/atheist/deathists scientists just disregard the self. Such as one
    whom believes in creationism, they start with preconceived ideas. It's one thing
    to try to prove a hypothesis, but perhaps they weren't good scientists _enough_.
    God can have no meaning without a concept of YOU. Quantum mechanics is now proving the SELF, and proving that an experiment has a different result when an
    observer is present.

    YOU exist, and God can have no meaning apart from you.

    A Course in Miracles teaches you are the only one in the Universe. But then, so
    is that little ant out there, and so is everybody else. Responsible for everything that's ever happened, is happening, or ever will happen. What a big
    responsibility, to be the savior of the Universe.

    God loves you. Why don't you love yourself?

    “a deep sleep fell upon Adam”. ... Mrs. Eddy was correct in emphasizing that
    nowhere is there any reference made to his waking up. While Christian Science is
    clearly incomplete, this point is much in its favor." - acim Urtext

    It's solipsism vs. duality.

    What happens if two miracle workers disagree?

    I want you to know you're the only one in the Universe and so am I.
    What will we see, if we disagree, upon the color of the sky.

    "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a
    child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a
    mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know
    just as I also am known."
    1 Corinthians 13:11

    When the figure in the mirror moves, who moved? The answer is obvious.

    What is salvation but to overcome the world, to know God, or both?

    And what is to overcome the world, but to overcome health, wealth, and people problems? And what are people problems, but lawlessness, oppression, and war?

    When Jesus says "I have overcome the world," in A Course in Miracles and the bible, does he mean also he has overcome the adversary?

    When infinite power chooses infinite power, the infinite power choosing the other
    infinite power negatively _ought_ to loose, and when everyone loves one another,
    Solipsism wins, as true relationships say "what do *you* want?," "no, what do *you* want?"

    but apparently these people are unintelligent, are crazy, and don't love us.

    Are you saying they're just going to obey us because we love them or something?
    Granted, as Anne Frank says, all people are good at heart. If you think you have
    a heart of darkness, because other's have hurt you, and you thus want to hurt others, you need to know, that you're only hurting yourself more, if you ever will
    waken to your right mind in this lifetime, before you die. You don't _want_ other
    people to be made sad, and yet law enforcement even take jobs as sadists.

    Are we still to use miracles for war?

    How do Moses' war miracles - striking the Egyptians first born dead, swamping the
    Egyptian army in the Red Sea, etc. compare to Jesus' miracles, who never hurt
    anyone:

    "And as they went, they entered a village of the Samaritans, to prepare for Him.
    53 But they did not receive Him, because His face was set for the journey to Jerusalem. 54 And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said, “Lord, do
    You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as
    Elijah did?”
    55 But He turned and rebuked them, and said, “You do not know what manner of
    spirit you are of. 56 For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives but
    to save them.” And they went to another village."
    - Luke 9:52

    "47 And while He was still speaking, behold, a multitude; and he who was called
    Judas, one of the twelve, went before them and drew near to Jesus to kiss Him. 48
    But Jesus said to him, “Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?”
    49 When those around Him saw what was going to happen, they said to Him, “Lord,
    shall we strike with the sword?” 50 And one of them struck the servant of the high
    priest and cut off his right ear.
    51 But Jesus answered and said, “Permit even this.” And He touched his ear and
    healed him." - Luke 22:47


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  • From course zealot@21:1/5 to course zealot on Mon Dec 16 01:02:12 2019
    On 12/12/2019 6:04 PM, course zealot wrote:
    There are many hells, and infinite heavens, and many many, many many, places in
    between, perhaps such as the world, though the world is neutral and what you make
    it. As are heaven and hell neutral, as all the many worlds are within you.

    No one deserves hell, and no one deserves punishment. No one deserves poverty,
    and no one deserves prison. No one deserves handicap or sickness at all. But
    what everyone deserves is freedom from injustice, and possibly recompenses. Victimizer deserve to repent and go and sin no more. Every Saint has a past. Every sinner has a future. Two wrongs don't make a right. Or else three do.

    "The Holy Spirit teaches thus: There is no hell. Hell is only what the ego has
    made of the present. The belief in hell is what prevents you from understanding
    the present, because you are afraid of it. The Holy Spirit leads as steadily to
    Heaven as the ego drives to hell. For the Holy Spirit, Who knows only the present, uses it to undo the fear by which the ego would make the present useless.
    There is no escape from fear in the ego's use of time. For time, according to
    its teaching, is nothing but a teaching device for compounding guilt until it becomes all-encompassing, demanding vengeance forever.

    The Holy Spirit would undo all of this now. Fear is not of the present, but only
    of the past and future, which do not exist. There is no fear in the present when
    each instant stands clear and separated from the past, without its shadow reaching
    out into the future. Each instant is a clean, untarnished birth, in which the Son
    of God emerges from the past into the present. And the present extends forever.
    It is so beautiful and so clean and free of guilt that nothing but happiness is
    there. No darkness is remembered, and immortality and joy are now.

    This lesson takes no time. For what is time without a past and future? It has
    taken time to misguide you so completely, but it takes no time at all to be what
    you are. Begin to practice the Holy Spirit's use of time as a teaching aid to
    happiness and peace. Take this very instant, now, and think of it as all there is
    of time. Nothing can reach you here out of the past, and it is here that you are
    completely absolved, completely free and wholly without condemnation. From this
    holy instant wherein holiness was born again you will go forth in time without
    fear, and with no sense of change with time.

    Time is inconceivable without change, yet holiness does not change. Learn from
    this instant more than merely that hell does not exist. In this redeeming instant
    lies Heaven. And Heaven will not change, for the birth into the holy present is
    salvation from change. Change is an illusion, taught by those who cannot see themselves as guiltless. There is no change in Heaven because there is no change
    in God. In the holy instant, in which you see yourself as bright with freedom,
    you will remember God. For remembering Him *is* to remember freedom."
    - A Course in Miracles, Chapter 15, Section 1

    From instant to instant we can measure change, and thus movement, but:

    "Whenever we move from one instant to the next, the previous one no longer exists."
    - A Course in Miracles, Urtext, Unedited Edition, pp. 78

    But,

    "The moment is forever,"
    - Childlike Empress, The Neverending Story, p. 98

    "If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. And
    if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day returns to
    you, saying, ‘I repent,’ you shall forgive him.”
    - Jesus Christ, Luke 17:3-4, Holy Bible, New Testament, NKJV

    There is forgiveness for the repentant.

    If satan presides over hell, he must be a sadist. Therefore sadism is satanism
    too. Some people in our world try to depress depression with pills. Others in
    our world try to restrict our freedom as of right.

    Others in our world recognize our happiness and freedom as of right. I do.


    "I am entitled to miracles"
    - A Course in Miracles, Workbook, Lesson 77

    "My happiness and my function are one."
    - A Course in Miracles, Workbook, Lesson 66

    "God, being Love, is also happiness."
    - A Course in Miracles, Workbook, Lesson 103

    vengeance = blood atonement...

    Truly evil and unintelligence must go hand in hand.


    "God wills no one suffer. He does not will anyone to suffer for a wrong decision,
    including you."
    - A Course in Miracles, Chapter 8, Section 3

    "I will with God that none of His Sons should suffer."
    - Jesus Christ, A Course in Miracles, Chapter 6, Section 1

    What is hell ultimately, but really bad feelings, and having to live with people
    you don't want to; and prison.


    "The mind can make the belief in separation very real and very fearful, and this
    belief is the "devil. "It is powerful, active, destructive and clearly in opposition to God, because it literally denies His Fatherhood. Look at your life
    and see what the devil has made. But realize that this making will surely dissolve in the light of truth, because its foundation is a lie. Your creation by
    God is the only Foundation that cannot be shaken, because the light is in it."
    - A Course in Miracles, Chapter 3, Section 7

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  • From course zealot@21:1/5 to genewardsmith on Mon Dec 16 01:02:58 2019
    On 11/23/2019 9:45 AM, genewardsmith wrote:
    The meaning of mind and editing changes - by Gene W. Smith

    In this article we undertake to compare the Second Edition of A Course in Miracles with the Hugh Lynn Cayce (HLC) [nowadays: Original Edition or Sparkly] version of the Text. We adopt a system of referencing a sentence from this version of the Text by
    means of four numbers separated by periods. The first number is the chapter, the second the section, the third the paragraph within the section, and the fourth the sentence within the paragraph.

    Let us begin by looking at the following passage from the Second Edition:

    "I have repeatedly emphasized that one level of the mind is not understandable to another. So it is with athe ego and the Holy Spirit; with time and eternity. Eternity is an idea of God, so the Holy Spirit understands it perfectly. Time is a belief of
    the ego, so the lower mind, which is the ego's domain, accepts it without question. The only aspect of time that is eternal is now." T-5.III.6

    On its face, this passage is a little curious, since it seems to suggest that the Holy Spirit is a level of the mind. To be that, the Holy Spirit would presumably need to have been split off, or dissociated. Yet the Course tells us the Holy Spirit is a
    response to the separation, which had already dissociated us into levels

    (T-5.II.2.5). Is the Holy Spirit then not a creation, but a way of referring to that level of our mind which is possessed of knowledge? If so, the Holy Spirit came to be within the world of separation as a result of the splitting into levels, and it
    therefore has no independent meaning in eternity. While some students favor this interpretation, the Course will not allow it, since "what God creates is eternal. The Holy Spirit will remain with the Sons of God, to bless their creations and keep them in
    the light of joy." (T-5.I.5:6-7)

    We could go on analyzing and speculating in this fashion for some time, but a completely different light is cast on the problem when we find that in the HLC, an earlier version of the Text, this passage reads as follows:

    "We have repeatedly emphasized that one level of the mind is not understandable to another. So it is with the ego and the Soul; with time and eternity. Eternity is an idea of God, so the Soul understands it perfectly. Time is a belief of the ego, so
    the lower mind, which is the ego's domain, accepts it without question. The only aspect of time which is really eternal is now." (5.5.5.1-5)

    How differently the problem now appears! The Soul and the ego are far more plausible as candidates for levels of the mind than the Holy Spirit and the ego. The new version of the Text in fact adds more detail about levels of the mind, allowing some
    understanding of what the Course means by its references to levels. We have in particular this:

    "In our picture of the psyche, there is an unconscious level which properly consists only of the miracle ability, and which should be under my direction. There is also a conscious level, which perceives or is aware of impulses from both the unconscious
    and the superconscious. Consciousness is thus the level of perception, but not of knowledge. Again, to perceive is not to know." (3.6.2.3-6)

    It seems the mind has an unconscious, a conscious, and a superconscious level. This raises the question as to what the relationship is between the Soul and the superconscious level of the mind.

    The mind returns to its proper function only when it wills to know. This places it in the Soul's service, where perception is meaningless. The superconscious is the level of the mind which wills this.

    "The mind chose to divide itself when it willed to create both its own levels and the ability to perceive, but it could not entirely separate itself from the Soul because it is from the Soul that it derives its whole power to create. Even in
    miscreation will is affirming its source, or it would merely cease to be. This is impossible because it is part of the Soul, which God created and which is therefore eternal." (3.6.7.5-3.6.8.3)

    The superconscious level is mind that wills to know, and hence is still in service of the Soul, which is the eternal Idea or Thought which God created when he created all Souls.

    The Course tells us that everything is Mind. However, it also draws a distinction between mind and spirit (in ACIM) or Soul (in HLC). To understand this, let us turn to the second Special Principle of Miracle workers, which in ACIM reads

    "A clear distinction between what is created and what is made is essential. All forms of healing rest on this fundamental correction in level perception. "

    In the HLC we find instead:

    "Clear distinction between what has been created and what is being created is essential. All forms of correction (or healing) rest on this fundamental correction in level perception."

    What "has been" created? In HLC, we find the following:

    "If it is understood that the mind, which is the only level of creation, cannot create beyond itself, neither type of confusion need occur. The reason only the mind can create is more obvious than may be immediately apparent. The Soul has been created."
    (2.3.3.4-2.3.4.2)

    The Soul, therefore, is Mind or Thought which has been created; we may distinguish Mind which expresses the Eternal Thought of God of its creation, and which has been created, Mind which has the creative or will power and which creates with God, and
    mind which uses this same power to miscreate, and hence to bring about a split into levels. Once the split into levels occurs, we have the Soul as the highest level, the superconscious mind as that level which is in service of the Soul, the level of
    ordinary consciousness, and the level below consciousness, which is the home of the miracle impulse.

    In connection with the editing decisions which resulted in the differences between the two versions, we are left with two questions. The first is what were the reasons for removing the material on levels of the mind, and the second is what were the
    reasons for rewriting the material in such a way that the Holy Spirit seems have been treated as a level of the mind, and not a Creation of God.

    One candidate as a reason is guidance from Jesus; indeed, many people feel that the Course as published represents the final version as approved by Jesus. If this is the case, we would not expect to find the sequence and connection of ideas becoming
    more confused as we pass from HLC to ACIM; the fact that we seem to find exactly that in this example and in the others we will consider below argues strongly against this belief. The result, which I consider to be firmly established, is that we may
    conclude that the Course as published does not represent the editorial work of Jesus; some of the editorial decisions seem clearly to be mistaken.

    Once we abandon, as reason compels us to abandon, the notion that the editorial changes were in general the result of guidance, we are led once again to consider what the reason for the changes in this case and in others might have been; in that
    connection it is important to consider if the changes represent a particular tendency of thought or of Course interpretation. Are they, in other words, in part the product of and reflective of the theological positions of the editors? That this is a
    possibility which must be considered emerges already from the one example we have so far looked at.

    Let us consider another passage from the published Course.

    "Healing is an ability that developed after the separation, before which it was unnecessary. Like all aspects of the belief in space and time, it is temporary. However, as long as time persists, healing is needed as a means of protection. This is
    because healing rests on charity, and charity is a way of perceiving the perfection of another even if you cannot perceive it in yourself. Most of the loftier concepts of which you are capable now are time-dependent. Charity is really a weaker reflection
    of a much more powerful love-encompassment that is far beyond any form of charity you can conceive of as yet. Charity is essential to right-mindedness in the limited sense in which it can now be attained. "

    "Charity is a way of looking at another as if he had already gone far beyond his actual accomplishments in time. Since his own thinking is faulty he cannot see the Atonement for himself, or he would have no need of charity. The charity that is accorded
    him is both an acknowledgment that he needs help, and a recognition that he will accept it. Both of these perceptions clearly imply their dependence on time, making it apparent that charity still lies within the limitations of this world. I said before
    that only revelation transcends time. The miracle, as an expression of charity, can only shorten it. It must be understood, however, that whenever you offer a miracle to another, you are shortening the suffering of both of you. This corrects
    retroactively as well as progressively." T-2.V.9-10

    I was very much struck by the unusual definition of charity given in this passage. The word "charity" comes from the Latin caritas, and in its original and theological sense it refers to the cardinal virtue of love; specifically, the higher, selfless, "
    supernatural" virtue of love spoken of in the New Testament. What is so striking about this definition is that it defines charity in such a way that it revolves around perceiving others differently than ourselves; "charity is a way of perceiving the
    perfection of another even if you cannot perceive it in yourself". Charity becomes the special virtue of those who do not love themselves; for even so they are able through it to love others.

    Alas, after arming ourselves with this new definition, we immediately find ourselves in trouble in the next paragraph. Here we learn that "Charity is a way of looking at another as if he had already gone far beyond his actual accomplishments in time."
    As we read on, we find that charity seems to involve looking past the imperfections of another, but we find nothing about looking past our own imperfections. Given the definition of charity, this seems a little peculiar; the sequence of thought falls
    short of entire clarity, and raises questions for which answers seem hard to find.

    Once again, sense returns to a confused situation when we find that this passage reads differently in the Hugh Lynn Cayce version of the Text:

    "Healing is an ability lent to man after the separation, before which it was completely unnecessary. Like all aspects of the space-time belief, healing ability is temporary. However, as long as time persists, healing is needed as a means for human
    protection. This is because healing rests on charity, and charity is a way of perceiving the perfection of another even if he cannot perceive it himself. "

    "Most of the loftier concepts of which man is capable now are time-dependent. Charity is really a weaker reflection of a much more powerful love-encompassment which is far beyond any form of charity that man can conceive of as yet. Charity is essential
    to right-mindedness in the limited sense in which right-mindedness can now be attained. Charity is a way of looking at another as if he had already gone far beyond his actual accomplishments in time. Since his own thinking is faulty he cannot see the
    Atonement for himself, or he would have no need for charity. The charity which is accorded him is both an acknowledgment that he is weak and a recognition that he could be stronger. "

    "The way in which both of these perceptions are stated clearly implies their dependence on time, making it quite apparent that charity lies within the human limitations, though toward its higher levels. We said before that only revelation transcends
    time. The miracle, as an expression of true human charity, can only shorten time at most. It must be understood, however, that whenever a man offers a miracle to another, he is shortening the suffering of both. This introduces a correction into the whole
    record which corrects retroactively as well as progressively." (2.3.18.3-2.3.20.4)

    This definition is much less striking than the one given in the published [ 2nd Edition] version, for the simple reason that it makes a great deal more sense on its face. It also completely solves the problem of making sense of the subsequent
    paragraphs. There seems little reason to doubt that this definition is the correct one, and that the editors, for whatever reason, made a mistake.

    We might also take note of the many small changes throughout this passage. As we so often find, there seems to be no good reason for them. Why change the scientific "space-time" to the more popular but less accurate "space and time"? Why the wholesale
    replacement throughout the Text of "man" with "you" or "you and your brothers"? Why was it trimmed here and there, since the result is a version somewhat less comprehensible, albeit shorter?

    Consider now the following sentence from the Second Edition: "'Lead us not into temptation' means 'Recognize your errors and choose to abandon them by following my guidance'." (T-1.III.4:7) This is undeniably a little cryptic; while we expect to find a
    reinterpretation, we also expect to be able to draw the connection between the original statement and its reinterpreted form. The connection between being led into temptation and following guidance is clear enough, but where does the recognition of
    errors enter the picture?

    In HLC we have instead the following, from Miracle Principle 36: "'Lead us not into temptation' means 'guide us out of our own errors.' 'Take up thy cross and follow me' means `recognize your errors and choose to abandon them by following my guidance.'"
    The connection between "lead us not into temptation" and "guide us out of our errors" is evident. "Take up thy cross and follow me" invites us onto the path of the Atonement even if the way be hard; "recognize your errors and choose to abandon them by
    following my guidance" does the same, since recognizing errors and choosing to abandon them can be experienced as a hard thing. What has been removed is any implication of sacrifice; rather than clinging to the old rugged cross, we are invited to abandon
    our errors and our foolish journeys to crucifixion. Again, clarity seems to have replaced confusion.

    Let us consider yet another example from the Second Edition, this time from the Miracle Principles. Miracle principle 38 tells us that "The Holy Spirit is the mechanism of miracles. He recognizes both God's creations and your illusions. He separates
    the true from the false by His ability to perceive totally rather than selectively." This seems both clear and unproblematic, unless one goes back a bit and tries to connect it to miracle principle 5, which has it that "Miracles are habits, and should be
    involuntary. They should not be under conscious control. Consciously selected miracles can be misguided."

    How, one might ask, can a miracle possibly be misguided if the mechanism of miracles is the Holy Spirit - our perfect Guide? Once again we could search and study and attempt to find an answer which reconciles the seeming contradiction, but once again a
    completely new light is cast on the matter by the discovery that miracle principle 39 in HLC, which corresponds to miracle principle 38 in ACIM, reads as follows:

    "The spiritual eye is the mechanism of miracles because what it perceives is true. It perceives both the Creations of God and the creations of man. Among the creations of man, it can also separate the true from the false by its ability to perceive
    totally, rather than selectively. It thus becomes the proper instrument for reality testing, which always involves the necessary distinction between the false and the true. "

    I've put "spiritual eye" in lower case in the above paragraph, and put into lower case as well the references to it as "it". This reflects my opinion, based on how it is used in HLC, that the editors of HLC erred in their belief, reflected in a
    footnote, that "spiritual eye" was synonymous with "Holy Spirit". I think it is clear that it is not; and the fact that it is not a reference to the Holy Spirit is what allows us to make sense of passages like this one.

    Indicative of the problems associated with identifying the spiritual eye with the Holy Spirit (an identification which is in fact not consistently carried out in ACIM, for the simple reason that attempting to do so will not work) is the following:

    "When the 'lies of the serpent' were introduced, they were specifically called 'lies' because they are not true. When man listened, all he heard was untruth. He does not have to continue to believe what is not true unless he chooses to do so. All of
    his miscreations can literally disappear in 'the twinkling of an eye,' because they are merely visual misperceptions. Man's spiritual eye can sleep, but a sleeping eye can still see. What is seen in dreams seems to be very real. The Bible mentions that '
    a deep sleep fell upon Adam,' and nowhere is there any reference to his waking up."

    Obviously "Man's spiritual eye can sleep" cannot be reconciled with any attempt to identify the spiritual eye with the Holy Spirit, and "a sleeping eye can still see" only compounds the problem. The identification of the spiritual eye with the Holy
    Spirit is therefore a mistake, and it is the spiritual eye (which from the passage above clearly belongs in the lower case, as it is capable of seeing the dream in place of what is real) which is the true mechanism of miracles. This in fact connects with
    our first example; the unconscious mind is the level of miracles, whereas miracle principle

    46 tells us:

    "The Holy Spirit is the highest communication medium. Miracles do not involve this type of communication, because they are temporary communication devices. When you return to your original form of communication with God by direct revelation, the need
    for miracles is over."

    This suggests the Holy Spirit has more to do with revelation than with miracles. The distinction is even clearer if we turn to miracle principle 49 in HLC, where we find instead:

    "The Holy Spirit is the Highest Communication Medium. Miracles do not involve this type of communication because they are temporary communication devices. When man returns to his original form of communication with God, the need for miracles is over.
    The Holy Spirit mediates higher to lower communication, keeping the direct channel from God to man open for revelation. Revelation is not reciprocal. It is always from God to man. The miracle is reciprocal because it involves equality."

    The Holy Spirit seems to be not the mechanism for miracles, but the motive and inspiration behind them; miracles are a response from mind below the level of consciousness to the Holy Spirit's inspiration from above. In this connection we may consider
    the following passage:

    "Healing is not creating; it is reparation. The Holy Spirit promotes healing by looking beyond it to what the children of God were before healing was needed, and will be when they have been healed. This alteration of the time sequence should be quite
    familiar, because it is very similar to the shift in the perception of time that the miracle introduces. The Holy Spirit is the motivation for miracle-mindedness; the decision to heal the separation by letting it go. Your will is still in you because God
    placed it in your mind, and although you can keep it asleep you cannot obliterate it." T-5.II.1:1-5

    This leads us directly to our final example. As we sometimes find, the word "will" in HLC, and presumably in the Urtext, has been replaced by another. Instead of "the will to heal" we find "the decision to heal". This leads to a problem in the sentence
    which follows, where "Your will" has no apparent referent; it seems perhaps to refer to one's power of free will in general terms. The version in ACIM goes on to say "God Himself keeps your will alive by transmitting it from His Mind to yours as long as
    there is time. The miracle itself is a reflection of this union of Will between Father and Son." This makes it clear that "will" must mean our true will, which we hold in union with the Father, but the connection with the discussion of healing is still
    not entirely clear. What we find instead in HLC is the following:

    "The Holy Spirit is the motivation for miracle-mindedness; the will to heal the separation by letting it go. This will is in you because God placed it in your mind, and although you can keep it asleep, you cannot obliterate it.

    God Himself keeps this will alive by transmitting it from His Mind to yours as long as there is time. It is partly His and partly yours. The miracle itself is just this fusion or union of will between Father and Son."

    Once again the published version of the Course is revealed to be less divinely inspired than we may have thought, as the obscurity of ACIM gives way to the clairity of the earlier HLC. We are led again to the conclusion that the editorial work of ACIM
    reflects the human fallibility of its editors, and that the notion that it represents the Course in its final and perfected form is not sustainable.


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  • From course zealot@21:1/5 to Voter on Mon Dec 16 01:03:31 2019
    On 12/7/2019 5:36 PM, Voter wrote:
    We don't want tan lines. We want to be able to lay out naked and not get tan lines. And if somebody else is offended, that's their fucking problem, just like
    if they're offended by an interracial relationship, that's their fucking problem.
    Nudity is *not* sexual harassment, such as flashing - if it matters.

    Sexuality is not a crime!


    Freedom is not a crime!

    Freedom is a right!

    Nudity is a form of Freedom!

    You have a right to freedom!

    Down with the oppression of the United States!

    Down with the United States criminal justice system!

    Down with the nuts!

    Restore the justice of freedom and liberty, which has been promised since 1776*!


    "Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free,
    and do not become entangled again with a yoke of bondage.

    For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; ...through love serve one another.

    For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this:

    “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

    - Paul the Apostle, Galatians 5:1,13,14, Holy Bible, New Testament


    "What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have
    attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; but Israel, pursuing
    the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law.
    For they stumbled at that stumbling stone. As it is written:

    “Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense,
    And whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”

    Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be
    saved. For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according
    to knowledge. For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to
    establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God.
    For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

    For Moses writes about the righteousness which is of the law, “The man who does
    those things shall live by them.” But the righteousness of faith speaks in this
    way, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’ ” (that is, to
    bring Christ down from above) or, “ ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’ ” (that
    is, to bring Christ up from the dead). But what does it say? “The word is near
    you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach)"
    - Paul The Apostle, Romans 9:30-10:8, Holy Bible, New Testament, NKJV


    We are under law towards Truth. Yet we are not under law towards condemnation.

    Imposing your subjective values onto others is objectively wrong and immoral.

    Democracy is not the author of the law, or morality, any more than of mathematics.

    Sex is a positive holy religious activity which shouldn't be condemned,
    yet unsafe sex is immoral.

    Everyone should use two or three disparate types of birth control, concurrently,
    and abort unplanned pregnancies in the first trimester/14 weeks/three months, before there is a brain or ghost in the fetus. Unplanned childbirth is the scourge of nations.

    If Paul condemned sexuality, I do not corroborate him there,
    yet he said many fine things which prove he's a Saint.

    Sex makes people happy, and sex is relationships from the bottom up,
    and sex is part of many valid holy religions such as Taoism, Tantra, Echankar, and
    my personal interpretation of any religion.

    Really sex is energy, you can give one another energy orgasms without touching one
    another through your clothes. Research "energy orgasms," if you want to see.

    Sex is an activity like any sport or activity, and it is no one, and not Paul's
    right, to judge it, nor condemn it, but to lead others, rather in their personal
    ministry without denigration.

    For,
    "Satan accuses our brethren before our God, day and night" Revelations 12:10

    "there is therefore, now no condemnation to those who are in Christ," - Romans 8:1

    But,
    "if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation" - 2 Corinthians 5:17

    "For He made Him, who knew no sin, to be sin for us;
    that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." - 2 Corinthians 5:21


    "There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves
    punishment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love."
    - St. John the Divine, 1 John 4:18, Holy Bible, New Testament

    "God is love."
    - St. John the Divine, 1 John 4:8, 4:16, Holy Bible, New Testament, NKJV

    And,
    "This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you:
    that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all."
    - St. John the Divine, 1 John 1:5, Holy Bible, New Testament, NKJV


    "What then, shall we sin, for we are not under law, but under grace?

    Certainly not!"

    "For the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law
    of sin and death."


    Like our bodies aren't supposed to be beautiful and glorious as the sunrise?

    We don't want tan lines!

    FREEDOM NOW!


    *"For happily the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance requires only that they who live under its
    protection should demean themselves as good citizens, in giving it on all occasions their effectual support." - General of the Armies, Commander George Washington, First President of the United States of America, 1776

    TO BIGOTRY NO SANCTION, TO PERSECUTION NO ASSISTANCE!


    "and yes, I did cut down my father's cherry tree, and cannot tell a lie."


    https://www.biblegateway.com/



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  • From course zealot@21:1/5 to course zealot on Mon Dec 16 01:03:46 2019
    On 12/16/2019 12:54 AM, course zealot wrote:


    A butterfly moving around doesn't offend, but it won't land on your hand and do
    what you want, and if it infests your house it does offend.

    I'm saying, it's just people moving around.

    What is salvation but to overcome the world, or to know God, or both?

    And what is to overcome the world, but to overcome health, wealth, and people problems?

    And what are people problems, but lawlessness, oppression, and war?

    When Jesus says "I have overcome the world," in A Course in Miracles and the Bible, does he mean also he has overcome the adversary?

    What happens if two miracle workers disagree?

    "For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face." 1 Corinthians 13:11

    When the figure in the mirror moves, who moved? The answer is obvious.

    Are we responsible for other's movements?

    "If you will recognize that all the attack [disagreement] you perceive is in your
    own mind and nowhere else, you will at last have placed its source, and where it
    begins it must end. For in this same place also lies salvation.
    ...Yet to find the place, you must relinquish your investment in the world as you
    _project_ it, allowing [Your] Holy Spirit to _extend_ the real world to you from
    the altar of God."
    - A Course in Miracles, "The Holy Spirit's Curriculum" Chapter 12; "The Investment in Reality" Section 3

    Basically if we are responsible for other's movements, we must be responsible for
    other's thoughts:

    "There is another vision and another voice in which your freedom lies, awaiting
    your choice. And if you place your faith in them, you will perceive another self
    in you. This other self sees miracles as natural. They are as simple and as natural to it as breathing to the body. They are the obvious response to calls
    for help, the only one it makes. Miracles seem unnatural to the ego because it
    does not understand how separate minds can influence each other. Nor *could* they
    do so. But minds cannot be separate. This other self is perfectly aware of this.
    And thus it recognizes that miracles do not affect another's mind, only its own.
    They always change *your* mind. There is no other."
    - A Course in Miracles, "Reason and Perception" Chapter 21, "The Function of Reason" Section 5
    "You do not realize the whole extent to which the idea of separation has interfered with reason."

    When you get to the point that you "perceive another self in you," it is not as if
    "outside," like separate from you and the ego, which is merely the thought of separation. But...


    When Jesus says "I have overcome the world," in A Course in Miracles and the Bible, does he mean also he has overcome the adversary?

    For when infinite power chooses infinite power, the infinite power choosing the
    other infinite power negatively _ought_ to loose, and when everyone loves one another, Solipsism wins, as true relationships say "what do *you* want?," "no,
    what do *you* want?"

    But apparently some people are unintelligent, are crazy, and don't love us.

    Are you saying they're just going to obey us because we love them or something?
    Granted, as Anne Frank says, all people are good at heart.
    If you think you have a heart of darkness, because other's have hurt you, and you
    thus want to hurt others, you need to know, that you're only hurting yourself more, if you ever will waken to your right mind in this lifetime, before you die.
    You don't _want_ other people to be made sad, and yet law enforcement even take
    jobs as sadists.

    Are we still to use miracles for war?

    How do Moses' war miracles - striking the Egyptians first born dead, swamping the
    Egyptian army in the Red Sea, etc., compare to Jesus' miracles, who never hurt
    anyone:

    "And as they went, they entered a village of the Samaritans, to prepare for Him.
    53 But they did not receive Him, because His face was set for the journey to Jerusalem. 54 And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said, “Lord, do
    You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as
    Elijah did?”
    55 But He turned and rebuked them, and said, “You do not know what manner of
    spirit you are of. 56 For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives but
    to save them.” And they went to another village."
    - Luke 9:52

    "47 And while He was still speaking, behold, a multitude; and he who was called
    Judas, one of the twelve, went before them and drew near to Jesus to kiss Him. 48
    But Jesus said to him, “Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?”
    49 When those around Him saw what was going to happen, they said to Him, “Lord,
    shall we strike with the sword?” 50 And one of them struck the servant of the high
    priest and cut off his right ear.
    51 But Jesus answered and said, “Permit even this.” And He touched his ear and
    healed him." - Luke 22:47


    It's solipsism vs. duality.

    I want you to know you're the only one in the Universe and so am I.
    What will we see, if we disagree, upon the color of the sky.

    A Course in Miracles teaches you are the only one in the Universe. But then, so
    is that little ant out there, and so is everybody else. Responsible for everything that's ever happened, is happening, or ever will happen. What a big
    responsibility, for you, to be the savior of the Universe.

    No concept of a God, existent without a concept of you, has any meaning (though
    this is just in concepts and concepts, I think, aren't even actually, what is).

    YOU exist, and God can have no meaning apart from you.

    God loves you. Why don't you love yourself?


    "I and My Father are one.”
    - Jesus Christ, John 10:30, Holy Bible, New Testament, NKJV


    "Freedom is the only gift you can offer to God's Sons, being an acknowledgment of
    what they are and what he is. Freedom is creation, because it is love. Whom you
    seek to imprison you do not love. Therefore, when you seek to imprison anyone,
    including yourself, you do not love him and you cannot identify with him. When
    you imprison yourself you are losing sight of your true identification with me and
    with the Father. Your identification is with the Father and with the Son. It
    cannot be with One and not the Other. If you are part of One you must be part of
    the Other, because They are One. The Holy Trinity is holy because It is One. If
    you exclude yourself from this union, you are perceiving the Holy Trinity as separated. You must be included in It, because It is everything. Unless you take
    your place in It and fulfill your function as part of It, the Holy Trinity is as
    bereft as you are. No part of It can be imprisoned if Its truth is to be known."
    - A Course in Miracles, Chapter 8, Section 4

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  • From course zealot@21:1/5 to course zealot on Mon Dec 16 01:47:18 2019
    On 12/11/2019 1:35 PM, course zealot wrote:
    HATE HAS NO PLACE IN AMERICA.

    HATE ON HATE IS STILL HATE.

    LEADERSHIP AND ADVOCATION IS IS WHAT THE WORLD NEEDS, AND IS THE MINISTRY OF JESUS.

    "I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.
    - Jesus Christ, Luke 5:32

    "the Son of Man did not come to destroy mens lives but to save them.
    - Jesus Christ, Luke 9:52


    "If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. And
    if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day returns to
    you, saying, I repent, you shall forgive him.
    - Jesus Christ, Luke 17:3-4, Holy Bible, New Testament, NKJV


    "Therefore, whatever you want others to do to you, do also to them, for this is
    the Law and the Prophets."
    - Jesus Christ, Matt 7:12


    Paul the Apostle:
    "[God] made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but
    of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
    But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so
    that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because
    of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,
    how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?
    For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory.
    For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory
    that excels.
    For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious. Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech- unlike Moses,
    who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away.
    But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in
    the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.
    Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
    But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord,
    are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.

    Therefore, since we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we do not lose
    heart.
    But we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness nor
    handling the word of God deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth commending
    ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God."

    "And since we have the same spirit of faith, according to what is written, "I believed and therefore I spoke," {Psalm 116:10} we also believe and therefore speak - "

    "For all things are for your sakes, that grace, having spread through the many, may cause thanksgiving to abound to the glory of God."

    "Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation,
    that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
    Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading
    through us: we implore you on Christ's behalf, be reconciled to God."

    - Paul the Apostle, 2 Corinthians 3:6-4:2, 4:13, 4:15 5:18-20

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  • From course zealot@21:1/5 to course zealot on Mon Dec 16 01:48:52 2019
    On 12/12/2019 6:11 PM, course zealot wrote:
    Ebola and Leprosy are the likes of what we deal with, and murderers and capital
    criminals make us desperate men. If somebody killed your spouse and child and cut
    off your hand, and wasn't sorry, would you just blow them away or want to? And if
    they were sorry would it make any difference? And if you were driving along a
    windy dark road, and hit an icy patch and went off the road and your spouse and
    child died, and you lost your hand, and there was nobody to blame, and it was nobody's fault, how would that compare?

    While we have a right to fight for freedom, and self-defense, Vengeance = blood
    atonement

    No one deserves hell, and no one deserves punishment. No one deserves poverty,
    and no one deserves prison. No one deserves handicap or sickness at all. But
    what everyone deserves is freedom from injustice, and possibly recompenses. Victimizer deserve to repent and go and sin no more. Every Saint has a past. Every sinner has a future. Two wrongs don't make a right. Or else three do.

    I don't know what you think, but I don't care if I've killed 150 million people.
    Do you want to reconcile, or do you want me to kill 150 million more.

    _I love me_. If you don't love me, I hate you.


    So granted you have to turn that around, someone's killed off half my society, I'm
    the President because I'm all that's left. So they've killed 150 million, they've
    raped, murdered, burned innocent men, women, children, alive, committed every horror known in a horror movie, on video. Maybe you think you have the upper hand, maybe you think they do. You ask them, well are you going to live next door
    to me, or far away, they go I don't know. What are you going to do?

    Do you want to reconcile, or do you want them to kill 150 million more?

    For the sake of blood atonement do you demand vengeance. Do you think one more
    wrong will make a right? So their lie won't persist, whether or not they're repentant?

    Doesn't the Bible say "leave vengeance to God?" While the governments and the
    rogues of the world say "leave vengeance to me."

    And what if there's no hell? Most people don't believe in it anyway. If you do,
    maybe you'll go there. Some Muslims who killed near 3,000 on 911 believed they
    would each get 77 virgins or some such thing.

    Didn't you hear the part about "Jesus died for our sins?" That doesn't justify
    sin. But it _does_ absolve us all from punishment. "and we can see. And we can
    see!" - A Course in Miracles

    If Christ can raise the dead. Then you have hope of salvation. And if he can't,
    then why do you believe in condemnation of any form?

    The same Spirit who raised Christ Jesus from the dead dwells in you:

    "And if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who
    raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His
    Spirit who dwells in you."
    - Paul the Apostle, Romans 8:11, Holy Bible, New Testament

    If the same Spirit who raised Christ Jesus from the dead dwells in you, then to
    screw you would be to screw that Spirit. And so it is.

    So you might as well screw yourself. What you're doing to others you're doing to
    yourself in many ways on many levels:

    "Then the King will say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My
    Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: for
    I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a
    stranger and you took Me in; I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you
    visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.’
    “Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and
    feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? When did we see You a stranger and take
    You in, or naked and clothe You? Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and
    come to You?’ And the King will answer and say to them, ‘Assuredly, I say to you,
    inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to
    Me.’" - Jesus Christ, Matt 25:34-40

    "God wills no one suffer. He does not will anyone to suffer for a wrong decision,
    including you."
    - A Course in Miracles, Chapter 8, Section 3

    "I will with God that none of His Sons should suffer."
    - Jesus Christ, A Course in Miracles, Chapter 6, Section 1


    Paul the Apostle:
    "But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, whose
    minds the god of this age (Satan) has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light
    of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them."


    "[God] made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but
    of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
    But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so
    that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because
    of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,
    how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?
    For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory.
    For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory
    that excels.
    For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious. Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech- unlike Moses,
    who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away.
    But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in
    the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.
    Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
    But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord,
    are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.

    Therefore, since we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we do not lose
    heart.
    But we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness nor
    handling the word of God deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth commending
    ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God."

    "And since we have the same spirit of faith, according to what is written, "I believed and therefore I spoke," {Psalm 116:10} we also believe and therefore speak - "

    "For all things are for your sakes, that grace, having spread through the many,
    may cause thanksgiving to abound to the glory of God."

    "Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ,
    and has given us the ministry of reconciliation,
    that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing
    their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation. Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us:
    we implore you on Christ's behalf, be reconciled to God."

    - Paul the Apostle, 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 3:6-4:2, 4:13, 4:15 5:18-20

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  • From course zealot@21:1/5 to course zealot on Mon Dec 16 01:49:05 2019
    On 12/9/2019 5:49 PM, course zealot wrote:
    IS IT OKAY TO POST PERSISTENT OFF-TOPIC POSTS?

    I MEAN LIKE, SAY IF SOMEONE WAS TO POST PERSISTENT OFF-TOPIC POSTS;
    SHOULD THEY STILL BE AWARE THEY ARE OFF-TOPIC, AND MAYBE MORE APPROPRIATE ON A
    BOARD REGARDING THEIR SUBJECT MATTER?

    OR DO YOU THINK MAYBE WE SHOULD MAYBE DISCUSS WHICH DOG BREEDS ARE BEST ON THIS
    BOARD TOO?

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  • From course zealot@21:1/5 to course zealot on Mon Dec 16 01:50:06 2019
    On 12/9/2019 6:00 PM, course zealot wrote:
    Or should I like fuck off if I want to do that?

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  • From course zealot@21:1/5 to course zealot on Mon Dec 16 01:51:30 2019
    On 12/11/2019 2:54 PM, course zealot wrote:
    HATE HAS NO PLACE IN AMERICA.

    HATE ON HATE IS STILL HATE.

    LEADERSHIP AND ADVOCATION IS IS WHAT THE WORLD NEEDS, AND IS THE MINISTRY OF JESUS.

    "I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners, to repentance.”
    - Jesus Christ, Luke 5:32

    "the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives but to save them.”
    - Jesus Christ, Luke 9:52


    "If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. And
    if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day returns to
    you, saying, ‘I repent,’ you shall forgive him.”
    - Jesus Christ, Luke 17:3-4, Holy Bible, New Testament, NKJV


    "Therefore, whatever you want others to do to you, do also to them, for this is
    the Law and the Prophets."
    - Jesus Christ, Matt 7:12


    Paul the Apostle:
    "[God] made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but
    of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
    But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so
    that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because
    of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,
    how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?
    For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory.
    For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory
    that excels.
    For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious. Therefore, since we have such hope, we use great boldness of speech- unlike Moses,
    who put a veil over his face so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the end of what was passing away.
    But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in
    the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.
    Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
    But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord,
    are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.

    Therefore, since we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we do not lose
    heart.
    But we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness nor
    handling the word of God deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth commending
    ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God."

    "And since we have the same spirit of faith, according to what is written, "I believed and therefore I spoke," {Psalm 116:10} we also believe and therefore speak - "

    "For all things are for your sakes, that grace, having spread through the many, may cause thanksgiving to abound to the glory of God."

    "Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation,
    that is, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them, and has committed to us the word of reconciliation.
    Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading
    through us: we implore you on Christ's behalf, be reconciled to God."

    - Paul the Apostle, 2 Corinthians 3:6-4:2, 4:13, 4:15 5:18-20


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  • From course zealot@21:1/5 to course zealot on Mon Dec 16 01:53:11 2019
    On 12/10/2019 7:39 PM, course zealot wrote:
    "It cannot be too strongly emphasized that this course aims at a complete reversal
    of thought. When this is finally accomplished, issues such as the validity of reincarnation become meaningless.

    Until then, they are likely to be merely controversial. The teacher of God is,
    therefore, wise to step away from all such questions, for he has much to teach and
    learn apart from them."

    It seems to say but only because they are likely to be controversial.


    "He should both learn and teach that theoretical issues but waste time, draining
    it away from its appointed purpose. If there are aspects to any concept or belief
    that will be helpful, he will be told about it. He will also be told how to use
    it. What more need he know?"
    acim, manual for teachers, sec.24, is reincarnation so?

    Yet:

    "A theoretical foundation such as the text provides is necessary as a framework to
    make the exercises in this workbook meaningful."
    - acim, workbook, first sentence

    It would seem, without a theoretical foundation of analytical concepts, we are
    sort of lost. Meditate on peace, or meditate on light? Or Chant? The Course
    doesn't mention Chanting.

    Are we trying to be religious scientists? separate the wheat from the chaff, etc.
    How is science not the answer? It would just seem that materialist/atheist/deathists scientists just disregard the self. Such as one
    whom believes in creationism, they start with preconceived ideas. It's one thing
    to try to prove a hypothesis, but perhaps they weren't good scientists _enough_.
    God can have no meaning without a concept of YOU. Quantum mechanics is now proving the SELF, and proving that an experiment has a different result when an
    observer is present.

    YOU exist, and God can have no meaning apart from you.

    A Course in Miracles teaches you are the only one in the Universe. But then, so
    is that little ant out there, and so is everybody else. Responsible for everything that's ever happened, is happening, or ever will happen. What a big
    responsibility, to be the savior of the Universe.

    God loves you. Why don't you love yourself?

    “a deep sleep fell upon Adam”. ... Mrs. Eddy was correct in emphasizing that
    nowhere is there any reference made to his waking up. While Christian Science is
    clearly incomplete, this point is much in its favor." - acim Urtext

    It's solipsism vs. duality.

    What happens if two miracle workers disagree?

    I want you to know you're the only one in the Universe and so am I.
    What will we see, if we disagree, upon the color of the sky.

    "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a
    child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a
    mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know
    just as I also am known."
    1 Corinthians 13:11

    When the figure in the mirror moves, who moved? The answer is obvious.

    What is salvation but to overcome the world, to know God, or both?

    And what is to overcome the world, but to overcome health, wealth, and people problems? And what are people problems, but lawlessness, oppression, and war?

    When Jesus says "I have overcome the world," in A Course in Miracles and the bible, does he mean also he has overcome the adversary?

    When infinite power chooses infinite power, the infinite power choosing the other
    infinite power negatively _ought_ to loose, and when everyone loves one another,
    Solipsism wins, as true relationships say "what do *you* want?," "no, what do *you* want?"

    but apparently these people are unintelligent, are crazy, and don't love us.

    Are you saying they're just going to obey us because we love them or something?
    Granted, as Anne Frank says, all people are good at heart. If you think you have
    a heart of darkness, because other's have hurt you, and you thus want to hurt others, you need to know, that you're only hurting yourself more, if you ever will
    waken to your right mind in this lifetime, before you die. You don't _want_ other
    people to be made sad, and yet law enforcement even take jobs as sadists.

    Are we still to use miracles for war?

    How do Moses' war miracles - striking the Egyptians first born dead, swamping the
    Egyptian army in the Red Sea, etc. compare to Jesus' miracles, who never hurt
    anyone:

    "And as they went, they entered a village of the Samaritans, to prepare for Him.
    53 But they did not receive Him, because His face was set for the journey to Jerusalem. 54 And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said, “Lord, do
    You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them, just as
    Elijah did?”
    55 But He turned and rebuked them, and said, “You do not know what manner of
    spirit you are of. 56 For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men’s lives but
    to save them.” And they went to another village."
    - Luke 9:52

    "47 And while He was still speaking, behold, a multitude; and he who was called
    Judas, one of the twelve, went before them and drew near to Jesus to kiss Him. 48
    But Jesus said to him, “Judas, are you betraying the Son of Man with a kiss?”
    49 When those around Him saw what was going to happen, they said to Him, “Lord,
    shall we strike with the sword?” 50 And one of them struck the servant of the high
    priest and cut off his right ear.
    51 But Jesus answered and said, “Permit even this.” And He touched his ear and
    healed him." - Luke 22:47


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  • From course zealot@21:1/5 to course zealot on Mon Dec 16 01:54:03 2019
    On 12/12/2019 6:13 PM, course zealot wrote:
    "The mind can make the belief in separation very real and very fearful, and this
    belief is the "devil. "It is powerful, active, destructive and clearly in opposition to God, because it literally denies His Fatherhood. Look at your life
    and see what the devil has made. But realize that this making will surely dissolve in the light of truth, because its foundation is a lie. Your creation by
    God is the only Foundation that cannot be shaken, because the light is in it."
    - A Course in Miracles, Chapter 3, Section 7

    The CIA, the devil, who next?

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  • From course zealot@21:1/5 to genewardsmith on Mon Dec 16 01:54:12 2019
    On 11/23/2019 9:45 AM, genewardsmith wrote:
    The meaning of mind and editing changes - by Gene W. Smith

    In this article we undertake to compare the Second Edition of A Course in Miracles with the Hugh Lynn Cayce (HLC) [nowadays: Original Edition or Sparkly] version of the Text. We adopt a system of referencing a sentence from this version of the Text by
    means of four numbers separated by periods. The first number is the chapter, the second the section, the third the paragraph within the section, and the fourth the sentence within the paragraph.

    Let us begin by looking at the following passage from the Second Edition:

    "I have repeatedly emphasized that one level of the mind is not understandable to another. So it is with athe ego and the Holy Spirit; with time and eternity. Eternity is an idea of God, so the Holy Spirit understands it perfectly. Time is a belief of
    the ego, so the lower mind, which is the ego's domain, accepts it without question. The only aspect of time that is eternal is now." T-5.III.6

    On its face, this passage is a little curious, since it seems to suggest that the Holy Spirit is a level of the mind. To be that, the Holy Spirit would presumably need to have been split off, or dissociated. Yet the Course tells us the Holy Spirit is a
    response to the separation, which had already dissociated us into levels

    (T-5.II.2.5). Is the Holy Spirit then not a creation, but a way of referring to that level of our mind which is possessed of knowledge? If so, the Holy Spirit came to be within the world of separation as a result of the splitting into levels, and it
    therefore has no independent meaning in eternity. While some students favor this interpretation, the Course will not allow it, since "what God creates is eternal. The Holy Spirit will remain with the Sons of God, to bless their creations and keep them in
    the light of joy." (T-5.I.5:6-7)

    We could go on analyzing and speculating in this fashion for some time, but a completely different light is cast on the problem when we find that in the HLC, an earlier version of the Text, this passage reads as follows:

    "We have repeatedly emphasized that one level of the mind is not understandable to another. So it is with the ego and the Soul; with time and eternity. Eternity is an idea of God, so the Soul understands it perfectly. Time is a belief of the ego, so
    the lower mind, which is the ego's domain, accepts it without question. The only aspect of time which is really eternal is now." (5.5.5.1-5)

    How differently the problem now appears! The Soul and the ego are far more plausible as candidates for levels of the mind than the Holy Spirit and the ego. The new version of the Text in fact adds more detail about levels of the mind, allowing some
    understanding of what the Course means by its references to levels. We have in particular this:

    "In our picture of the psyche, there is an unconscious level which properly consists only of the miracle ability, and which should be under my direction. There is also a conscious level, which perceives or is aware of impulses from both the unconscious
    and the superconscious. Consciousness is thus the level of perception, but not of knowledge. Again, to perceive is not to know." (3.6.2.3-6)

    It seems the mind has an unconscious, a conscious, and a superconscious level. This raises the question as to what the relationship is between the Soul and the superconscious level of the mind.

    The mind returns to its proper function only when it wills to know. This places it in the Soul's service, where perception is meaningless. The superconscious is the level of the mind which wills this.

    "The mind chose to divide itself when it willed to create both its own levels and the ability to perceive, but it could not entirely separate itself from the Soul because it is from the Soul that it derives its whole power to create. Even in
    miscreation will is affirming its source, or it would merely cease to be. This is impossible because it is part of the Soul, which God created and which is therefore eternal." (3.6.7.5-3.6.8.3)

    The superconscious level is mind that wills to know, and hence is still in service of the Soul, which is the eternal Idea or Thought which God created when he created all Souls.

    The Course tells us that everything is Mind. However, it also draws a distinction between mind and spirit (in ACIM) or Soul (in HLC). To understand this, let us turn to the second Special Principle of Miracle workers, which in ACIM reads

    "A clear distinction between what is created and what is made is essential. All forms of healing rest on this fundamental correction in level perception. "

    In the HLC we find instead:

    "Clear distinction between what has been created and what is being created is essential. All forms of correction (or healing) rest on this fundamental correction in level perception."

    What "has been" created? In HLC, we find the following:

    "If it is understood that the mind, which is the only level of creation, cannot create beyond itself, neither type of confusion need occur. The reason only the mind can create is more obvious than may be immediately apparent. The Soul has been created."
    (2.3.3.4-2.3.4.2)

    The Soul, therefore, is Mind or Thought which has been created; we may distinguish Mind which expresses the Eternal Thought of God of its creation, and which has been created, Mind which has the creative or will power and which creates with God, and
    mind which uses this same power to miscreate, and hence to bring about a split into levels. Once the split into levels occurs, we have the Soul as the highest level, the superconscious mind as that level which is in service of the Soul, the level of
    ordinary consciousness, and the level below consciousness, which is the home of the miracle impulse.

    In connection with the editing decisions which resulted in the differences between the two versions, we are left with two questions. The first is what were the reasons for removing the material on levels of the mind, and the second is what were the
    reasons for rewriting the material in such a way that the Holy Spirit seems have been treated as a level of the mind, and not a Creation of God.

    One candidate as a reason is guidance from Jesus; indeed, many people feel that the Course as published represents the final version as approved by Jesus. If this is the case, we would not expect to find the sequence and connection of ideas becoming
    more confused as we pass from HLC to ACIM; the fact that we seem to find exactly that in this example and in the others we will consider below argues strongly against this belief. The result, which I consider to be firmly established, is that we may
    conclude that the Course as published does not represent the editorial work of Jesus; some of the editorial decisions seem clearly to be mistaken.

    Once we abandon, as reason compels us to abandon, the notion that the editorial changes were in general the result of guidance, we are led once again to consider what the reason for the changes in this case and in others might have been; in that
    connection it is important to consider if the changes represent a particular tendency of thought or of Course interpretation. Are they, in other words, in part the product of and reflective of the theological positions of the editors? That this is a
    possibility which must be considered emerges already from the one example we have so far looked at.

    Let us consider another passage from the published Course.

    "Healing is an ability that developed after the separation, before which it was unnecessary. Like all aspects of the belief in space and time, it is temporary. However, as long as time persists, healing is needed as a means of protection. This is
    because healing rests on charity, and charity is a way of perceiving the perfection of another even if you cannot perceive it in yourself. Most of the loftier concepts of which you are capable now are time-dependent. Charity is really a weaker reflection
    of a much more powerful love-encompassment that is far beyond any form of charity you can conceive of as yet. Charity is essential to right-mindedness in the limited sense in which it can now be attained. "

    "Charity is a way of looking at another as if he had already gone far beyond his actual accomplishments in time. Since his own thinking is faulty he cannot see the Atonement for himself, or he would have no need of charity. The charity that is accorded
    him is both an acknowledgment that he needs help, and a recognition that he will accept it. Both of these perceptions clearly imply their dependence on time, making it apparent that charity still lies within the limitations of this world. I said before
    that only revelation transcends time. The miracle, as an expression of charity, can only shorten it. It must be understood, however, that whenever you offer a miracle to another, you are shortening the suffering of both of you. This corrects
    retroactively as well as progressively." T-2.V.9-10

    I was very much struck by the unusual definition of charity given in this passage. The word "charity" comes from the Latin caritas, and in its original and theological sense it refers to the cardinal virtue of love; specifically, the higher, selfless, "
    supernatural" virtue of love spoken of in the New Testament. What is so striking about this definition is that it defines charity in such a way that it revolves around perceiving others differently than ourselves; "charity is a way of perceiving the
    perfection of another even if you cannot perceive it in yourself". Charity becomes the special virtue of those who do not love themselves; for even so they are able through it to love others.

    Alas, after arming ourselves with this new definition, we immediately find ourselves in trouble in the next paragraph. Here we learn that "Charity is a way of looking at another as if he had already gone far beyond his actual accomplishments in time."
    As we read on, we find that charity seems to involve looking past the imperfections of another, but we find nothing about looking past our own imperfections. Given the definition of charity, this seems a little peculiar; the sequence of thought falls
    short of entire clarity, and raises questions for which answers seem hard to find.

    Once again, sense returns to a confused situation when we find that this passage reads differently in the Hugh Lynn Cayce version of the Text:

    "Healing is an ability lent to man after the separation, before which it was completely unnecessary. Like all aspects of the space-time belief, healing ability is temporary. However, as long as time persists, healing is needed as a means for human
    protection. This is because healing rests on charity, and charity is a way of perceiving the perfection of another even if he cannot perceive it himself. "

    "Most of the loftier concepts of which man is capable now are time-dependent. Charity is really a weaker reflection of a much more powerful love-encompassment which is far beyond any form of charity that man can conceive of as yet. Charity is essential
    to right-mindedness in the limited sense in which right-mindedness can now be attained. Charity is a way of looking at another as if he had already gone far beyond his actual accomplishments in time. Since his own thinking is faulty he cannot see the
    Atonement for himself, or he would have no need for charity. The charity which is accorded him is both an acknowledgment that he is weak and a recognition that he could be stronger. "

    "The way in which both of these perceptions are stated clearly implies their dependence on time, making it quite apparent that charity lies within the human limitations, though toward its higher levels. We said before that only revelation transcends
    time. The miracle, as an expression of true human charity, can only shorten time at most. It must be understood, however, that whenever a man offers a miracle to another, he is shortening the suffering of both. This introduces a correction into the whole
    record which corrects retroactively as well as progressively." (2.3.18.3-2.3.20.4)

    This definition is much less striking than the one given in the published [ 2nd Edition] version, for the simple reason that it makes a great deal more sense on its face. It also completely solves the problem of making sense of the subsequent
    paragraphs. There seems little reason to doubt that this definition is the correct one, and that the editors, for whatever reason, made a mistake.

    We might also take note of the many small changes throughout this passage. As we so often find, there seems to be no good reason for them. Why change the scientific "space-time" to the more popular but less accurate "space and time"? Why the wholesale
    replacement throughout the Text of "man" with "you" or "you and your brothers"? Why was it trimmed here and there, since the result is a version somewhat less comprehensible, albeit shorter?

    Consider now the following sentence from the Second Edition: "'Lead us not into temptation' means 'Recognize your errors and choose to abandon them by following my guidance'." (T-1.III.4:7) This is undeniably a little cryptic; while we expect to find a
    reinterpretation, we also expect to be able to draw the connection between the original statement and its reinterpreted form. The connection between being led into temptation and following guidance is clear enough, but where does the recognition of
    errors enter the picture?

    In HLC we have instead the following, from Miracle Principle 36: "'Lead us not into temptation' means 'guide us out of our own errors.' 'Take up thy cross and follow me' means `recognize your errors and choose to abandon them by following my guidance.'"
    The connection between "lead us not into temptation" and "guide us out of our errors" is evident. "Take up thy cross and follow me" invites us onto the path of the Atonement even if the way be hard; "recognize your errors and choose to abandon them by
    following my guidance" does the same, since recognizing errors and choosing to abandon them can be experienced as a hard thing. What has been removed is any implication of sacrifice; rather than clinging to the old rugged cross, we are invited to abandon
    our errors and our foolish journeys to crucifixion. Again, clarity seems to have replaced confusion.

    Let us consider yet another example from the Second Edition, this time from the Miracle Principles. Miracle principle 38 tells us that "The Holy Spirit is the mechanism of miracles. He recognizes both God's creations and your illusions. He separates
    the true from the false by His ability to perceive totally rather than selectively." This seems both clear and unproblematic, unless one goes back a bit and tries to connect it to miracle principle 5, which has it that "Miracles are habits, and should be
    involuntary. They should not be under conscious control. Consciously selected miracles can be misguided."

    How, one might ask, can a miracle possibly be misguided if the mechanism of miracles is the Holy Spirit - our perfect Guide? Once again we could search and study and attempt to find an answer which reconciles the seeming contradiction, but once again a
    completely new light is cast on the matter by the discovery that miracle principle 39 in HLC, which corresponds to miracle principle 38 in ACIM, reads as follows:

    "The spiritual eye is the mechanism of miracles because what it perceives is true. It perceives both the Creations of God and the creations of man. Among the creations of man, it can also separate the true from the false by its ability to perceive
    totally, rather than selectively. It thus becomes the proper instrument for reality testing, which always involves the necessary distinction between the false and the true. "

    I've put "spiritual eye" in lower case in the above paragraph, and put into lower case as well the references to it as "it". This reflects my opinion, based on how it is used in HLC, that the editors of HLC erred in their belief, reflected in a
    footnote, that "spiritual eye" was synonymous with "Holy Spirit". I think it is clear that it is not; and the fact that it is not a reference to the Holy Spirit is what allows us to make sense of passages like this one.

    Indicative of the problems associated with identifying the spiritual eye with the Holy Spirit (an identification which is in fact not consistently carried out in ACIM, for the simple reason that attempting to do so will not work) is the following:

    "When the 'lies of the serpent' were introduced, they were specifically called 'lies' because they are not true. When man listened, all he heard was untruth. He does not have to continue to believe what is not true unless he chooses to do so. All of
    his miscreations can literally disappear in 'the twinkling of an eye,' because they are merely visual misperceptions. Man's spiritual eye can sleep, but a sleeping eye can still see. What is seen in dreams seems to be very real. The Bible mentions that '
    a deep sleep fell upon Adam,' and nowhere is there any reference to his waking up."

    Obviously "Man's spiritual eye can sleep" cannot be reconciled with any attempt to identify the spiritual eye with the Holy Spirit, and "a sleeping eye can still see" only compounds the problem. The identification of the spiritual eye with the Holy
    Spirit is therefore a mistake, and it is the spiritual eye (which from the passage above clearly belongs in the lower case, as it is capable of seeing the dream in place of what is real) which is the true mechanism of miracles. This in fact connects with
    our first example; the unconscious mind is the level of miracles, whereas miracle principle

    46 tells us:

    "The Holy Spirit is the highest communication medium. Miracles do not involve this type of communication, because they are temporary communication devices. When you return to your original form of communication with God by direct revelation, the need
    for miracles is over."

    This suggests the Holy Spirit has more to do with revelation than with miracles. The distinction is even clearer if we turn to miracle principle 49 in HLC, where we find instead:

    "The Holy Spirit is the Highest Communication Medium. Miracles do not involve this type of communication because they are temporary communication devices. When man returns to his original form of communication with God, the need for miracles is over.
    The Holy Spirit mediates higher to lower communication, keeping the direct channel from God to man open for revelation. Revelation is not reciprocal. It is always from God to man. The miracle is reciprocal because it involves equality."

    The Holy Spirit seems to be not the mechanism for miracles, but the motive and inspiration behind them; miracles are a response from mind below the level of consciousness to the Holy Spirit's inspiration from above. In this connection we may consider
    the following passage:

    "Healing is not creating; it is reparation. The Holy Spirit promotes healing by looking beyond it to what the children of God were before healing was needed, and will be when they have been healed. This alteration of the time sequence should be quite
    familiar, because it is very similar to the shift in the perception of time that the miracle introduces. The Holy Spirit is the motivation for miracle-mindedness; the decision to heal the separation by letting it go. Your will is still in you because God
    placed it in your mind, and although you can keep it asleep you cannot obliterate it." T-5.II.1:1-5

    This leads us directly to our final example. As we sometimes find, the word "will" in HLC, and presumably in the Urtext, has been replaced by another. Instead of "the will to heal" we find "the decision to heal". This leads to a problem in the sentence
    which follows, where "Your will" has no apparent referent; it seems perhaps to refer to one's power of free will in general terms. The version in ACIM goes on to say "God Himself keeps your will alive by transmitting it from His Mind to yours as long as
    there is time. The miracle itself is a reflection of this union of Will between Father and Son." This makes it clear that "will" must mean our true will, which we hold in union with the Father, but the connection with the discussion of healing is still
    not entirely clear. What we find instead in HLC is the following:

    "The Holy Spirit is the motivation for miracle-mindedness; the will to heal the separation by letting it go. This will is in you because God placed it in your mind, and although you can keep it asleep, you cannot obliterate it.

    God Himself keeps this will alive by transmitting it from His Mind to yours as long as there is time. It is partly His and partly yours. The miracle itself is just this fusion or union of will between Father and Son."

    Once again the published version of the Course is revealed to be less divinely inspired than we may have thought, as the obscurity of ACIM gives way to the clairity of the earlier HLC. We are led again to the conclusion that the editorial work of ACIM
    reflects the human fallibility of its editors, and that the notion that it represents the Course in its final and perfected form is not sustainable.


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  • From Miracles Are Seen In Light@21:1/5 to All on Wed Dec 22 02:05:05 2021
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  • From Miracles Are Seen In Light@21:1/5 to All on Thu Feb 3 00:05:27 2022
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  • From Miracles Are Seen In Light@21:1/5 to All on Thu Feb 3 00:04:33 2022
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  • From Layne Bonvillain@21:1/5 to Miracles Are Seen In Light on Sun Aug 21 21:03:32 2022
    On Thursday, February 3, 2022 at 2:07:14 AM UTC-6, Miracles Are Seen In Light wrote:
    Bump
    Yesterday, August 20, 2022 Gary presented "An Intimate Conversation with Gary Renard" in Shreveport, Louisiana from 10AM - 5PM. But as usual during lunch he consumed too much alcohol. So the afternoon 'conversation' was pathetic as he mostly giggled,
    cracked nasty jokes, and engaged in pretty raunchy interactions with some attendees. Hopefully those of you who care about and have personal contact with Renard will suggest he seriously consider getting professional help. I'm not a fan but I do care
    about people, especially those struggling consciously or unconsciously with a substance use disorder. - - Layne

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  • From Miracles Are Seen In Light@21:1/5 to All on Thu Apr 20 14:55:28 2023
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