• Divorce after 50: What I wish I had known beforehand (1/2)

    From a425couple@21:1/5 to All on Sat Apr 14 19:30:24 2018
    XPost: soc.support.depression.crisis

    On 1/17/2018 4:26 PM, a425couple wrote:
    On 1/17/2018 4:22 PM, a425couple wrote:
    Divorce after 50: What I wish I had known beforehand

    Published: Jan 16, 2018 12:44 p.m. ET
    Advice for navigating a late-in-life split

    Divorce after 50 can be costly, transformative and scary.

    This article is reprinted by permission from NextAvenue.org.

    Divorce is never easy, but couples over 50 who end their marriages
    face particular hurdles. Below, people who went through a late-in-life
    divorce share six things they would tell their younger selves,
    offering ways others can learn from their experiences:

    “I wish I had known how the divorce would impact my oldest children
    even more than my youngest still at home.” Gail Konop, a 57-year-old
    yoga studio owner whose 2011 divorce ended a 25-year marriage, said
    her son who lived at home slowly got used to her new reality, which
    wasn’t as easy for her adult daughters. “He got to see us as
    individuals living in his life. He saw how there was less stress, and
    he got used to it. But my daughters are coming home periodically and
    they couldn’t keep up with the changes.” At one point, Konop says her
    daughter announced, “I don’t want to come home anymore — it’s so
    weird.” If you’re considering a divorce and kids are involved, don’t >> assume you are sparing your children by holding on, only to divorce
    once they’re out of the house.

    “I wish I’d explored the job market before I separated; I think I
    would have worked harder to try to keep the marriage together if I’d
    realized just how bleak things are out here.” For older adults,
    especially women who have been out of the workforce, re-entering it
    can be more even more challenging than they expect. Look into getting
    advice from financial and career counselors to consider your options
    for long- and short-term planning post-divorce. Beth Hodges, a family
    law attorney at Horack Talley in Charlotte, N.C ., says the input of
    those experts can be helpful when negotiating the amount of alimony
    and property settlement.

    “Sometimes when we’re negotiating, I have a client who wants to get
    her degree to increase her earning capacity. We’ll find out what the
    cost would be to go back to school and get statistics on what type of
    income my client can expect to receive once she finishes,” which then
    gets figured into the settlement package, so the main breadwinner will
    pay for her education instead of alimony.

    What to do in your 50s to build wealth for your retirement
    “I wish I had known how painful it would be.” Kelly James, a
    ghostwriter who was 50 when she divorced after 19 years of marriage,
    was surprised by how long it took her to adjust to the loneliness of
    living alone.


    “Even if you don’t have the happiest of marriages, there’s something >> comforting about having someone in your home, your bed. I’m lonely
    sometimes and miss being part of a twosome,” says James. “It’s also
    difficult to not have my kids with me all the time — their dad and I
    do a good job of co-parenting, but I miss them when they’re at his

    In addition to suggesting the pursuit of new hobbies and volunteer
    opportunities, Hodges recommends therapists to her clients as a way of
    helping them adjust to their new life. “[Divorce] is a very traumatic,
    life-rattling experience, especially if you’ve been married for 25 to
    35 years,” says Hodges. She reassures her clients that in time,
    they’ll not only recover, but emerge stronger. “[Divorce] can be
    transformative,” says Hodges. She tells her clients, “‘You’re going to
    survive and feel better about yourself and about your future.’ Almost
    to a person they’ll come back to me and say, ‘You were absolutely

    “I didn’t think my friends would actually bail on me, but I was
    wrong.” Lynn Cohen, a Chicago-area divorce attorney who serves on the
    board of the women’s divorce support nonprofit The Lilac Tree, sees it
    all the time with her older female clients: “A lot of their friends
    cut them off — even their best friends. You might keep one or two
    close friends, but that whole crowd is not going to be there. They’ll
    help you while you’re going through [the divorce] but not after it’s

    She advises her clients to get ahead of this social shift and be
    proactive about expanding their networks by joining groups that set up
    travel opportunities for single people, and by volunteering. “If
    you’re not active in your community and giving back, you’re kind of by >> yourself,” Cohen notes. She also cautions against relying too heavily
    on divorced friends. “Every divorce is a different set of facts and
    circumstances and must be viewed individually. They’ll say, ‘When I
    was divorced, I was able to get everything in the house.’ That’s
    unnerving and usually bad advice. I tell people that they’re going to
    have to make their own life,” says Cohen.

    “I wish I had known how expensive it would be.” James was shocked that >> her uncontested, relatively conflict-free collaborative divorce still
    cost nearly $35,000.

    “In retrospect, a ‘traditional’ would have probably been a lot less
    expensive,” she says. Collaborative divorce eschews adversarial
    strategies and litigation. Cohen advises consulting a divorce attorney
    as soon as a client suspects she or he may need one to get a jump on
    figuring out how to pay for the divorce and life after. Alimony may be
    sparse if a couple already living on retirement savings splits, so
    would-be divorcées may need time for their exit strategy.

    Hodges has a simple tip when it comes to saving divorce attorney fees:
    stay off the phone. “Sometimes clients run up their bills because
    they’re constantly calling us and engaging us in half-hour
    consultations. We’re there to counsel and provide guidance to a
    client, but there is a cost,” says Hodges.

    The first thing you should do when hiring an attorney, she says, is
    “Ask questions about the attorney’s billing practices, how the lawyer
    charges. If there are things you can do for the attorneys, like
    gathering financial information, you can save money by doing that

    “I wish I had known how liberating it would be — and how that can be a >> little scary.” Says Konop: “Being only responsible for myself (and my
    kids) has let me make decisions based on what I want. From little
    decisions like what to hang on the wall of my house to bigger ones
    like where to travel and what kinds of projects to do on the house, is
    all up to me. That feels good but can also be overwhelming. It was
    like I had a second adolescence. I had so much fun, I knew myself so
    much better. At first, it was really nerve-racking and the dating
    world had changed. It was energizing (until it got exhausting.)”

    Claire Zulkey is a freelance writer in Evanston, IL. She is the author
    of the young adult novel “An Off Year,” and runs the longstanding
    Chicago reading series Funny Ha-Ha. You can learn much more about her
    by going to Zulkey.com

    This article is reprinted by permission from NextAvenue.org, © 2017
    Twin Cities Public Television, Inc. All rights reserved.

    More from Next Avenue:
    Why Couples Divorce After Decades of Marriage
    How to Keep a Divorce From Wrecking Your Finances
    18 Ways to Help a Friend Going Through a Divorce

    Clark Magnuson 7 hours ago
    Getting married and staying married is associated with wealth and

    But like getting a college degree is associated with a lot of positive
    things, the key to understanding is "What kind of person GETS a
    college degree?" just like "What kind of person gets married and stays

    The 10% of blacks that get married and stay married are doing as well
    as whites that get married and stay married.

    What kind of person are you?

    Ronald Stasch 2 days ago
    I wish I had known how much happier I would be.  30 years in an icebox
    and suddenly being in the warm sunlight.  It takes guts to venture
    into the unknown, but you have a chance to create the life you
    imagined as a kid.  You can do anything, go anywhere.  Don't buy a
    dog, they hold you back.  You'll be amazed at how cheaply you can live
    anywhere in the world and how much sex is out there.

    James Faulkner 2 days ago
    @Ronald Stasch  My exact experience there, my friend. My lawyer and a
    long-time, divorced friend both told me "The day you get divorced will
    be the happiest day of your life". It didn't feel that way when I left
    the courthouse. But within months I was banging a hot, younger girl
    and venturing off to intriguing places I always wanted to visit, like
    Berlin and Bangkok. My ex had trouble with all the fun I was having in
    fact, despite getting to keep pretty much everything. And the
    co-worker she immediately attached herself to the day after filing for
    divorce, turned out to have less money and less prospects than I did.
    That part alone, was worth the price of admission.

    No Partisans 1 day ago
    @James Faulkner @Ronald Stasch

    "And the co-worker she immediately attached herself to the day after
    filing for divorce, turned out to have less money and less prospects
    than I did."

    You mean the guy she was cheating on you with, banging the whole time.

    gregg bartels 3 days ago
    I'm single.

    I was a traveling sales rep in the apparel industry and had a lot of
    mentors along the way and all that got married had miserable divorces.

    I only have a few " happily " married  "friends", when you are single
    the married stay away.


    Roddy Pfeiffer 3 days ago
    After the divorce you find out how many people you thought were your
    friends were friends of you and the ex as a couple. They drift away
    soon, leaving you with very true friends. After 50 you will have trouble making friends, for a lot of reasons.

    James Faulkner 2 days ago
    @Roddy Pfeiffer  I didn't have that problem. Rather I had to start
    trying to rekindle old friendships and rebuild my social circle. This
    was because my ex was non-social, extremely jealous, didn't like me to
    have my own friends and couldn't handle me being out unsupervised. After
    my divorce, I was able to reconnect with a few old friends and make
    better friends with those who were once mere acquaintances. Others were
    too gone in their own direction to have any interest in reviving our friendship. This wasn't always so bad, as I could see that they were
    often mired too deep in their own b.s. or trapped in another crippling marriage of their own. Now, at age 60, I think making new friends
    actually will actually mean having real friends I can trust instead of friends to party with.

    Rodger Bowers 3 days ago
    IN 1978, my law professor started on Contract Law. He said, American's
    enter contracts almost everyday of the week, can any of you name any
    type of Contracts? No one could answer.  Finally he said,

    Marriage in America is Contract, Just like People that go into Business.
    He stated Politicians to confuse people substituted the word License for Contract.

    This is all it is so People forget your Vows, they mean Nothing in
    Divorce Court standing in front of a Judge in a Court of Law. Also
    Contracts must be desolved in a Court of Law. Again The Politicians
    confused People and Called this Leagal Procedure Divorce.

    After that day I realized what I had done a couple months earlier and I
    swore I would never allow that to happen again.

    My divorce occurred in 1985, I've Never Singed Another Marriage
    Contract. I'm not Dumb as Dirt!

    Dan Green 4 days ago
    As Robin Williams  joked." Divorce is like dragging your testicles
    through your wallet" No matter how you cut it splitting a whole in half
    is an event most never recover from. Only Hollywood pulls off successful

    mike kramer 8 days ago
    Its expensive...If you cant afford it fake it.

    Joe Cool Jan 4, 2018
    For the most part these people  sound clueless about what they had

     so of course they are clueless about how their new reality turned out.

    Also not surprising that spoiled clueless people want a divorce either.

    Sal Gentile Jan 3, 2018
    It is very sad indeed that more than 50% of marriages in the USA end in divorce today, but it was not always that way.  It also is not normal or only natural. When I was a boy growing up in the 1950's in a well
    populated city ___ in a middle class single and two-family home
    neighborhood none of my friends parents were divorced.

    While today the divorce rate in the USA is the highest on the planet.
    Yet it is not surprising when we have a population of today of extremely arrogant men and women who mostly have a terrible "I want attitude" and
    never ask their spouse 'what do you want' or ask "what can I do to make
    life better for you?"

    A 'team' of two who can work 'together' can accomplish twice as much as anyone living alone.

    Marriage is like everything else in the Game of Life  ___ the more
    efforts you put into it __ the more you get out of it and the more good things we can accomplish.

    PS: Under the new tax law changes ____ anyone who becomes divorced after 12/31/18 can no longer deduct alimony payments they make for their
    income. If you are earning $150,000 per year and the courts decide your spouse should get $70,000 per year ___ you will no longer be able to
    deduct that $70,000 from your income and just pay income tax on the
    $80,000 income you have left. Instead under the new tax laws you still
    pay income tax on your entire $150,000 income even though you give
    $70,000 of it to your spouse each year.

    My advice is ____It's cheaper to keepher. Buy flowers and beg for forgiveness.

    james doner 11 days ago
    @Sal Gentile cheaper to not get married.

    Lodestar Research 3 days ago
    @Sal Gentile Interesting points but misleading.  42 percent,
    approximately, of US marriages end in divorce, but many of those are
    serial "marriers."  The number of Americans who divorce is quite a bit lower.  And if you compared *de facto* divorces in the 1950s -- opposite-end-of-the-house marriages, separations, annulments,
    abandonments -- the percentages are much closer than you would think.

    Also, "the divorce rate in the USA is the highest on the planet" is not true.  Many countries have higher divorce rates, especially former
    Soviet republics.

    Lastly, if there were some more objective, less emotional way of looking
    at marriage in America, I believe we'd agree with an ex-girl-friend who
    said, simply, marriage is a bad deal for a man.  If you take issue with that, consider how these type of columns are written overwhelmingly by
    women, or consider how much marriage fits -- however stereotypically --
    with many women's strong desire for security -- in other words, with
    their instinctive desire -- and how poorly it fits with many men's instinctive desires.  I'd call it more a contract for society's
    stability, rather than a quid pro quo, and it's why marriage is the most romantic thing a man ever does.

    James Faulkner 2 days ago
    @Lodestar Research @Sal Gentile  Thanks for your comments, Lodestar.
    But, if you read Sal's comments over time, you will realize he hasn't a
    clue about ANYTHING he posts about.

    Naoko Yamano Jan 2, 2018
    70% of American divorces are initiated by the wife.

    james doner 11 days ago
    @Naoko Yamano more like her 99.99%

    Ronald Stasch 2 days ago
    @Naoko Yamano :  Thank God someone has some sense.

    michael elliott Jan 2, 2018
    Great article!!

    The comments section reveals a lot about our collective experiments in cohabitation.

    BTW...the friends that you collect when in a functional relationship
    tend to be doing what you and your spouse are doing

    .So....Your friends are mostly in a long term relationship....All of a sudden, they are married and you are not!

    When you separate, It is "uncomfortable" to socialize with them, to say
    the least.

    Sorry sport, You  have been socially ostracized, and you need a new set
    of friends.

    Hank Brvening 4 days ago
    @michael elliott Former wives, former lives.

    Elmer Ritwinger Jan 2, 2018
    "I wish I’d explored the job market before I separated..."

    Sounds like she was a real warm and loving wife. I think this person may
    have missed the meaning of marriage in the first place.

    Jeffery Lebowski Jan 2, 2018
    @Elmer Ritwinger  - Right? "Oh my......my milk cow is gone. Now I
    actually have to work?" What a POS.

    Ted Karlson Jan 1, 2018
    Liberal inspired divorce culture is pure evil.  The lawyers love it though.

    casey trocewicz Jan 2, 2018
    @Ted Karlson these liberals are just to liberals, just like trump.

    dwayne hardin Jan 2, 2018
    @Ted Karlson red states have higher divorce rates than blue states.

    Tim Winzell Jan 2, 2018
    @dwayne hardin @Ted Karlson How do the marriage rates between the two?

    James Faulkner 2 days ago
    @dwayne hardin @Ted Karlson  That's because people in Blue States tend
    to get married less in the first place.

    Lodestar Research 3 days ago
    @Ted Karlson People like Ted, who politicize everything, are generally
    quite weak in the objective-thought category.

    james doner Jan 1, 2018
    Men should stop marrying and just shack up. It has all the benefits and
    no divorce ape by briniging the govt into the bedroom

    JEAN SMITH Jan 1, 2018
    It all depends,women who have a career end up doing more,when she come home,she is still responsible for chores at home,the grocery shopping,meals,laundry etc.

    men are raised by their mom,if they can get away not doing
    housechores,they will.

    A career woman who makes enough to support herself will end up having
    more freedom on her hands,while a housewife who has been out of work too
    long will find it hard to join the workforce and make a decent living.

    I have seen it,being a real estate broker aint that easy,travel
    agent,now we have internet,maids,thats degrading,baby sitting pay peanuts.

    it takes some planning.

    ROBERT RITES Jan 3, 2018
    @JEAN SMITH SORRY jean,  as I  do the majority of the work and have for years,  but I  keep a  good marriage as many of my friends.  You never know,   1/2  the   time  the  guy is   the last to know now days.

    Dee Dorsoduro Jan 1, 2018
    Yes, you should have known that when a woman marries its not AT ALL for
    the reasons that he thinks  and the man is also not marrying for the
    reasons that she thinks. A woman is SOLELY interested in fulfilling her
    own wants and needs, she looks at the man solely as the vehicle and tool
    that gets her to her wants and needs.

    If her needs are not met, she will jump ship and move on to next
    vehicle. If she can ( if she has the looks and youth )

    You see it was never about love or loyalty to any one particular man,
    but always about fulfilling  to her own wants and needs.

    Jeffery Lebowski Jan 2, 2018
    @Dee Dorsoduro  - well....in all fairness, it's the same story with men. Just a VERY different set of wants and needs.

    Darrell Williamson Jan 2, 2018
    @Dee Dorsoduro Dee you nailed it completely. True selfless love and
    loyalty from most women  is as scarce as hen's teeth ! Women are loyal
    to what gets them security and pretty things they desire. If  the man
    can't provide  that  they are moving on to the next guy  that can!  This has been true since the cave man ruled the planet. The best provider got
    to breed the women until a better provider came along.

    ROBERT RITES Jan 3, 2018
    @Dee Dorsoduro MASLOW charts in the basics. THATS why its real work for
    many as society offered you choices daily. YES you should know what both
    want as I have ran in to all types in my early exploratory years. Many I
    ran from and many I wish I could have met their desires for being some
    one or going some where they may or may not like.  ITS funny as most my friends and church  tried to talk me out of  and away from a good
    marriage. I think its more than needs but needs are a huge part.
    Friendship, love , character and selflessness  all play a part and have varied in my relationship with us. MY top of the chart look a little different in what our goes are.  WE may make it to our own special tops
    with or with out greed and some with our family in tacked.

    sharon cumpstone 11 days ago
    @Dee Dorsoduro Wow very cynical and  definitely not truthful for many

    Kent Webb Jan 1, 2018
    "James was shocked that her uncontested, relatively conflict-free collaborative divorce still cost nearly $35,000."--WTH?  I went through
    an uncontested, conflict-free divorce, and it only cost me about $1500
    in attorney fees.

    Awan Afuqya Jan 1, 2018
    @Kent Webb Yep, in Vegas mine was $750!

    Nunyadamn Bidness Jan 1, 2018
    @Kent Webb My uncontested divorce only cost me two $0.57 bullets, the
    price of a shovel and a roll of heavy duty plastic bags.

    alex solomon Jan 1, 2018
    I already have the shovel, so no cost there, but on which website you
    found the @0.57 bullets ? Amazon Prime doesn’t list them...

    Spaceman Spiff Jan 1, 2018
    @Nunyadamn Bidness @Kent Webb You must be a bad shot.

    ROBERT RITES Jan 3, 2018
    @Spaceman Spiff @Nunyadamn Bidness @Kent Webb shooting his $%^&oo7 is
    what brought him   to the edge,

    Dana Follow Jan 2, 2018
    @Nunyadamn Bidness @Kent Webb I just bought 1000 9mm for $170. That's 17 cents!!

    George Courtney 10 days ago
    @Nunyadamn Bidness @Kent Webb You can buy bullets for 57 cents?

    Peter Koller 19 hours ago
    @Nunyadamn Bidness @Kent Webb LOL

    Spencer Hill 2 days ago
    @Kent Webb Did the same it was even less. Told my ex-spouse we can spend moneys on attorney's or spend it on our kids ...the choice is yours

    JEFF WILLIAMS Dec 31, 2017
    As a divorced child I can tell you in painful detail that it has a long
    and lasting effect on children.  I truly understand that there are times when divorce is the only option.  In cases of abuse, criminal activity
    or when a spouse is an alcoholic or drug abuser.  In many cases  you
    must take a child away from one parent in order to protect them. However
    "we just can't get along" is not a reason or excuse. Live up to the
    oaths you took.  Marriage is a job and it's a very hard job at times.
    In my case in middle school/high school I cannot remember how many times
    I held a gun to my head or a knife to my throat. Sometimes I was so
    drunk I could hardly breath.  (Literally)  I'm not looking for anyone's pity or concern or anything here other than for folks to have a care.
    Your child cannot walk out and live on their own.  They are stuck in the situation.  They are also stuck with the step parents that usually come along.  It is seldom that a step parent loves a child as much as a real parent.  For my part I have tried to be what my parents were not and
    even though I still smoke I don't drink anymore.  Divorce can destroy a child and regardless if you think it or not it will have a negative
    effect.  Regardless of what experts say it will have a negative effect.
    I know because I lived through it.  Think it through carefully because
    your children have no good choices in such situations.

    Garry Rooks Jan 1, 2018
    @JEFF WILLIAMS As usual, children either benefit or suffer the choices
    of their parents.  This is everyday stuff, with parents on drugs,
    alcohol, in prison, unemployed, sick, disabled, or even wealthy living
    the good life. Children don't make the decisions yet they are impacted,
    and parents should think long and hard about the decisions they make.

    Awan Afuqya Jan 1, 2018
    @JEFF WILLIAMS Thanks for sharing. I'm glad to hear you're doing better
    and being a great dad!

    Chef Dan George Jan 1, 2018
    @JEFF WILLIAMS My adult kids are suffering from being related to their mother, my ex wife. My kids love their stepmother. Sorry that your
    parents, and stepparents are jerks, and that you are not strong enough
    to overcome the adversity they have thrown at you.

    Tim Winzell Jan 2, 2018
    @Chef Dan George @JEFF WILLIAMS Sounds like he's adjusted pretty well.
    Why do you feel the need to be insulting and petty? Is it due to your
    own feelings of inadequacy? You're not the only one who made a poor
    choice in marriage partners.

    Lodestar Research 3 days ago
    Agree with Tim Winzell, you're being very small and shallow.  You have
    no idea what someone else has gone through.  There's a balance that much
    of America seems to have lost.  You don't have to wring your hands and
    weep for every inequity, but nor do you have to be supercilious about
    someone else's pain.  "Strong enough," per se, usually has extremely
    little to do with it.  True strength would have been to just listen to
    what the man had to say and recognize the value of his experience ...

    scott f Dec 31, 2017
    Divorce is taking half of everything you own and lighting a match to it.
     That's only if you don't have children, if  you do it's even worse. It may be necessary sometimes, but it is not to  be taken lightly.  Do everything you can to work it out before you take that awful step.

    ROBERT RITES Jan 3, 2018
    @scott f BEEN there and done it.  I stayed the course ,  then you just
    live with questions about doing the right thing.  Later in life you dont question yourself so much .  The kids kept us together in many ways. The grand kids are great healers. now i think it was the way it was supposed
    to be right or wrong.

    STEVEN SCOTT Dec 31, 2017
    I never understood why anyone would get married.

    Larry Riley Jan 1, 2018
    @STEVEN SCOTT  For me a second marriage was simple.  It allowed my girlfriend/wife to retire at 60 rather than work for the rest of her life.

    ROBERT RITES Jan 3, 2018
    @STEVEN SCOTT many should not. MOST fool them selves as they go through
    the different stages of life. Some people cant keep a business
    partnership going or a simple contract. OTHER have never been loyal even
    to them selves.  THE maturity level and demands are very great for some
    . OTHERS are just to dependent to do other wise.  THE different
    emotions, feeling, and situations along the way are important.   The journey.  Some like to share and enjoy  with trusting  others and some would rather forget and race to self gratification and win the gold.
    FIND who you are and decide.

    Pendrick Blufen Dec 31, 2017
    Never understood people who remarry after a divorce. You obviously gave marriage a shot and it didn't work out.  Move on and live free. Most
    people who remarry go above and beyond what's required trying to correct
    what they should have done in the first place.

    Chef Dan George Jan 1, 2018
    @Pendrick Blufen It's kind of nice to have sex without
    protection.....and have coffee  made  in the morning after...

    Roy Hopke Dec 31, 2017
    Still enjoying my second marriage after 40 + years and trying to work it
    out. It was a trial marriage only!!!!!! Hahahahahaha

    Utelme Utelme Dec 10, 2017
    LOL!, Seriously Folks grow up and stop whining about your pathetic
    marital and loneliness stories.

    Mary Jane Coleman Jan 1, 2018
    @Utelme Utelme People have a right to their feelings, and talking about
    them is not a sign that they need "to grow up." If you can't deal with
    that, no one is forcing you to read these stories.

    Wei Ledoux Dec 10, 2017
    I was born again after divorce. Life couldn't be better. Without the
    shadow, I have much more confidence. I get to learn a lot more things. I
    can fix toilet. I can troubleshoot furnace. I learned to use snow
    blower. Google and Youtube are my helpers without strings attached. I
    take very good care of my finance. He said that I can't. Haha. My career
    is still climbing (He thought it would end years ago.). Life is
    meaningful again. I am so happy. I laugh a lot more. I take more
    vacations. It's just great. I become a better me. I met a better half.
    Do not fear. Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

    Laci B Dec 10, 2017
    Good for you . Sounds like you were in a big trap and degraded to make thought that you can't do nothing

    thomas hunt Dec 31, 2017
    @Wei Ledoux Don't marry an insecure individual.  Somebody who has no
    self consciousness and self respect.  They have to bring down their
    partner to booster their self ego. They are a control freak.

    William Gates Dec 10, 2017
    Divorce is for fools who have no self-esteem, cannot plan, cannot
    communicate or possess no self-control. Unfortunately, many people go
    brain dead after inducing drugs and alcohol. Marijuana is a drug!

    Rick Jarvis Dec 31, 2017
    What in the world are you talking about?

    Dana Follow Jan 2, 2018
    @Rick Jarvis

    Talking from experience I guess!!

    Bob Sherunkel Dec 31, 2017
    @William Gates Both partners don't have to act like losers to cause a divorce. Individuals can only control their own behavior.

    ROBERT RITES Jan 3, 2018
    @William Gates For you marriage is cut dry and about character , honor
    and self discipline with most likely a bible to guide you. . YOU must be
    OK as your wife must feel the same as you had to have married your
    sister. ( joke) but you get the point.  I had a relationship like that
    at one time. IT might have worked out fine,  but I wanted a deeper relationship as we did not put all the pieces together. I married some
    one that is different than myself in different ways as she opened many avenues I would not have seen.  Now we are totally different people as i

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