• Brains are monomorphic!

    From Scientific@21:1/5 to Scientific on Wed Aug 25 11:57:00 2021
    XPost: alt.checkmate, alt.transgendered, alt.atheism

    On 8/25/21 11:54 AM, Scientific wrote:
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0149763421000804

    Finding this study that shows that brains are monomorphic has really
    provided relief to me that there was nothing in my brain.

    This review does not support your conclusion:

    Of note, a similar conclusion is converging from the growing research
    on transgender participants’ brains, according to Smith et al. (2015)
    who remark that “viewing gender as a binary or dichotomous category has
    to be reconsidered.” Rather, a picture is emerging not of two brain
    types nor even a continuous gradient from masculine to feminine, but of
    a multidimensional “mosaic” of countless brain attributes that differ in unique patterns across all individuals (Joel et al., 2015).

    It may be your brain after all. The review supports merely that an MRI
    won't be of any help finding out.

    It's concerned about what the data does and does not support, rather
    than about how things are. In particular it does not conclude that
    "brain sex" or neuronal sexual identity does not exist, but rather if
    there was such a thing, it doesn't show in the 1-2mm resolution of an
    MRI, or isn't consistent across individuals: There is no categorical anatomical difference between the sexes, we can observe as of today. The rhetoric of the paper also seems to target sexist stereotypes (men
    smart; women talky-talky) rather than the "trans agenda", as some here
    would like to read.

    Overall, this shouldn't be really surprising as most of the human brain
    is related to our specific universal adaptive intelligence and evidently consists of plastic, somewhat universal or redundant matter. Potential neuronal instances of sexual identity and sexual orientation however are
    not human-specific attributes, much, much "older". If they fit in a
    mouse, an MRI won't see them, because of poor resolution (1-2 mm). This hypothesis is in agreement with the review at hand:

    One tiny exception is INAH-3, which is too small (0.1 mm) to be
    visible by MRI but has been independently confirmed by four post-mortem histological studies to be about 1.6-fold larger in men (Allen et al.,
    1989; Byne et al., 2000; Garcia-Falgueras and Swaab, 2008; LeVay, 1991). Although discovered by analogy to the rodent SDN-POA and speculated to participate in reproductive behavior, neither INAH-3 nor the SDN-POA has
    been assigned a clear behavioral function (McCarthy, 2016).

    Fact is, we don't know shit about the brain. No one should weaponize
    biology to push a narrative of any presumed clear biological facts.
    Genetics and the Brain are beyond our understanding for a long time
    still. In biology nothing is not complex in detail (complex isn't the
    same as complicated; things are also complicated...). And as a side
    note: The whole of sexual evolution isn't really understood to begin
    with, as it can not be sufficiently explained with classic darwinism
    (some species seem to literally go extinct over silly displays of sexual dimorphism; it may evolve in clear conflict to any survival benefit).
    Transphobes have good day quote mining what they life.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scientific@21:1/5 to All on Wed Aug 25 11:54:00 2021
    XPost: alt.checkmate, alt.transgendered, alt.atheism

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0149763421000804

    Finding this study that shows that brains are monomorphic has really
    provided relief to me that there was nothing in my brain.

    This review does not support your conclusion:

    Of note, a similar conclusion is converging from the growing research
    on transgender participants’ brains, according to Smith et al. (2015)
    who remark that “viewing gender as a binary or dichotomous category has
    to be reconsidered.” Rather, a picture is emerging not of two brain
    types nor even a continuous gradient from masculine to feminine, but of
    a multidimensional “mosaic” of countless brain attributes that differ in unique patterns across all individuals (Joel et al., 2015).

    It may be your brain after all. The review supports merely that an MRI
    won't be of any help finding out.

    It's concerned about what the data does and does not support, rather
    than about how things are. In particular it does not conclude that
    "brain sex" or neuronal sexual identity does not exist, but rather if
    there was such a thing, it doesn't show in the 1-2mm resolution of an
    MRI, or isn't consistent across individuals: There is no categorical
    anatomical difference between the sexes, we can observe as of today. The rhetoric of the paper also seems to target sexist stereotypes (men
    smart; women talky-talky) rather than the "trans agenda", as some here
    would like to read.

    Overall, this shouldn't be really surprising as most of the human brain
    is related to our specific universal adaptive intelligence and evidently consists of plastic, somewhat universal or redundant matter. Potential
    neuronal instances of sexual identity and sexual orientation however are
    not human-specific attributes, much, much "older". If they fit in a
    mouse, an MRI won't see them, because of poor resolution (1-2 mm). This hypothesis is in agreement with the review at hand:

    One tiny exception is INAH-3, which is too small (0.1 mm) to be
    visible by MRI but has been independently confirmed by four post-mortem histological studies to be about 1.6-fold larger in men (Allen et al.,
    1989; Byne et al., 2000; Garcia-Falgueras and Swaab, 2008; LeVay, 1991). Although discovered by analogy to the rodent SDN-POA and speculated to participate in reproductive behavior, neither INAH-3 nor the SDN-POA has
    been assigned a clear behavioral function (McCarthy, 2016).

    Fact is, we don't know shit about the brain. No one should weaponize
    biology to push a narrative of any presumed clear biological facts.
    Genetics and the Brain are beyond our understanding for a long time
    still. In biology nothing is not complex in detail (complex isn't the
    same as complicated; things are also complicated...). And as a side
    note: The whole of sexual evolution isn't really understood to begin
    with, as it can not be sufficiently explained with classic darwinism
    (some species seem to literally go extinct over silly displays of sexual dimorphism; it may evolve in clear conflict to any survival benefit).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Malcolm McMahon@21:1/5 to Scientific on Fri Aug 27 20:49:04 2021
    XPost: alt.atheism, alt.checkmate, alt.transgendered

    Scientific <science@is.truth> wrote: >https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0149763421000804

    Finding this study that shows that brains are monomorphic has really
    provided relief to me that there was nothing in my brain.

    This review does not support your conclusion:

    Of note, a similar conclusion is converging from the growing research
    on transgender participants’ brains, according to Smith et al. (2015)
    who remark that “viewing gender as a binary or dichotomous category has
    to be reconsidered.” Rather, a picture is emerging not of two brain
    types nor even a continuous gradient from masculine to feminine, but of
    a multidimensional “mosaic” of countless brain attributes that differ in >unique patterns across all individuals (Joel et al., 2015).

    It may be your brain after all. The review supports merely that an MRI
    won't be of any help finding out.

    It's concerned about what the data does and does not support, rather
    than about how things are. In particular it does not conclude that
    "brain sex" or neuronal sexual identity does not exist, but rather if
    there was such a thing, it doesn't show in the 1-2mm resolution of an
    MRI, or isn't consistent across individuals: There is no categorical >anatomical difference between the sexes, we can observe as of today. The >rhetoric of the paper also seems to target sexist stereotypes (men
    smart; women talky-talky) rather than the "trans agenda", as some here
    would like to read.

    Overall, this shouldn't be really surprising as most of the human brain
    is related to our specific universal adaptive intelligence and evidently >consists of plastic, somewhat universal or redundant matter. Potential >neuronal instances of sexual identity and sexual orientation however are
    not human-specific attributes, much, much "older". If they fit in a
    mouse, an MRI won't see them, because of poor resolution (1-2 mm). This >hypothesis is in agreement with the review at hand:

    One tiny exception is INAH-3, which is too small (0.1 mm) to be
    visible by MRI but has been independently confirmed by four post-mortem >histological studies to be about 1.6-fold larger in men (Allen et al.,
    1989; Byne et al., 2000; Garcia-Falgueras and Swaab, 2008; LeVay, 1991). >Although discovered by analogy to the rodent SDN-POA and speculated to >participate in reproductive behavior, neither INAH-3 nor the SDN-POA has
    been assigned a clear behavioral function (McCarthy, 2016).

    Fact is, we don't know shit about the brain. No one should weaponize
    biology to push a narrative of any presumed clear biological facts.
    Genetics and the Brain are beyond our understanding for a long time
    still. In biology nothing is not complex in detail (complex isn't the
    same as complicated; things are also complicated...). And as a side
    note: The whole of sexual evolution isn't really understood to begin
    with, as it can not be sufficiently explained with classic darwinism
    (some species seem to literally go extinct over silly displays of sexual >dimorphism; it may evolve in clear conflict to any survival benefit).

    Are you familiar with the concept of a "Cluster Concept". Where you have a population spread out in a multi-dimensional space there are often clusters. Volumes of that space with high occupancy with relatively empty spaces between them. That's the way I picture gender.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Scientific (she/her)@21:1/5 to Malcolm McMahon on Sat Aug 28 10:58:00 2021
    XPost: alt.atheism, alt.checkmate, alt.transgendered

    On 8/27/21 8:49 PM, Malcolm McMahon wrote:
    Scientific <science@is.truth> wrote:
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0149763421000804

    Finding this study that shows that brains are monomorphic has really
    provided relief to me that there was nothing in my brain.

    This review does not support your conclusion:

    Of note, a similar conclusion is converging from the growing research
    on transgender participants’ brains, according to Smith et al. (2015)
    who remark that “viewing gender as a binary or dichotomous category has
    to be reconsidered.” Rather, a picture is emerging not of two brain
    types nor even a continuous gradient from masculine to feminine, but of
    a multidimensional “mosaic” of countless brain attributes that differ in >> unique patterns across all individuals (Joel et al., 2015).

    It may be your brain after all. The review supports merely that an MRI
    won't be of any help finding out.

    It's concerned about what the data does and does not support, rather
    than about how things are. In particular it does not conclude that
    "brain sex" or neuronal sexual identity does not exist, but rather if
    there was such a thing, it doesn't show in the 1-2mm resolution of an
    MRI, or isn't consistent across individuals: There is no categorical
    anatomical difference between the sexes, we can observe as of today. The
    rhetoric of the paper also seems to target sexist stereotypes (men
    smart; women talky-talky) rather than the "trans agenda", as some here
    would like to read.

    Overall, this shouldn't be really surprising as most of the human brain
    is related to our specific universal adaptive intelligence and evidently
    consists of plastic, somewhat universal or redundant matter. Potential
    neuronal instances of sexual identity and sexual orientation however are
    not human-specific attributes, much, much "older". If they fit in a
    mouse, an MRI won't see them, because of poor resolution (1-2 mm). This
    hypothesis is in agreement with the review at hand:

    One tiny exception is INAH-3, which is too small (0.1 mm) to be
    visible by MRI but has been independently confirmed by four post-mortem
    histological studies to be about 1.6-fold larger in men (Allen et al.,
    1989; Byne et al., 2000; Garcia-Falgueras and Swaab, 2008; LeVay, 1991).
    Although discovered by analogy to the rodent SDN-POA and speculated to
    participate in reproductive behavior, neither INAH-3 nor the SDN-POA has
    been assigned a clear behavioral function (McCarthy, 2016).

    Fact is, we don't know shit about the brain. No one should weaponize
    biology to push a narrative of any presumed clear biological facts.
    Genetics and the Brain are beyond our understanding for a long time
    still. In biology nothing is not complex in detail (complex isn't the
    same as complicated; things are also complicated...). And as a side
    note: The whole of sexual evolution isn't really understood to begin
    with, as it can not be sufficiently explained with classic darwinism
    (some species seem to literally go extinct over silly displays of sexual
    dimorphism; it may evolve in clear conflict to any survival benefit).

    Are you familiar with the concept of a "Cluster Concept". Where you have a population spread out in a multi-dimensional space there are often clusters. Volumes of that space with high occupancy with relatively empty spaces between
    them. That's the way I picture gender.


    Most people are lucky enough to be close to edges. Me, however, not.

    --
    There is no verifiable evidence that gender dysphoria can be treated in
    other ways than transitioning. None whatsoever.
    Gender-affirmative trans care *requires* therapy. That is, unless you go
    the informed consent route, which you can always refuse to.
    Scaring trans people away from transitioning and repressing their
    identities *IS* conversion therapy.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)