• Taliban wanted #DirtyDon to win.

    From bruce bowser@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 13 12:26:03 2021
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/taliban-on-trump-we-hope-he-will-win-the-election-withdraw-us-troops/

    President Trump's reelection bid received a vote of support Friday from an entity most in his party would reject: the Taliban.

    Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid told CBS News in a phone interview,
    "We believe that Trump is going to win the upcoming election because he
    has proved himself a politician who accomplished all the major promises he
    had made to American people, although he might have missed some small
    things, but did accomplish the bigger promises, so it is possible that the
    U.S. people who experienced deceptions in the past will once again trust
    Trump for his decisive actions."

    Another senior Taliban leader told CBS News, "We hope he will win the
    election and wind up U.S. military presence in Afghanistan."
    - Gronk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From El Castor@21:1/5 to bruce2bowser@gmail.com on Mon Sep 13 22:42:44 2021
    On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 12:26:03 -0700 (PDT), bruce bowser
    <bruce2bowser@gmail.com> wrote:

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/taliban-on-trump-we-hope-he-will-win-the-election-withdraw-us-troops/

    President Trump's reelection bid received a vote of support Friday from an >entity most in his party would reject: the Taliban.

    Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid told CBS News in a phone interview,
    "We believe that Trump is going to win the upcoming election because he
    has proved himself a politician who accomplished all the major promises he >had made to American people, although he might have missed some small
    things, but did accomplish the bigger promises, so it is possible that the >U.S. people who experienced deceptions in the past will once again trust >Trump for his decisive actions."

    Another senior Taliban leader told CBS News, "We hope he will win the >election and wind up U.S. military presence in Afghanistan."
    - Gronk

    Oops, you forgot to mention the date of this piece -- Oct 11, 2020

    BTW -- Trump's proposed withdrawal from Afghanistan -- Good.

    Biden's execution of the withdrawal -- Pathetically Bad.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Josh Rosenbluth@21:1/5 to El Castor on Tue Sep 14 08:47:34 2021
    On 9/13/2021 10:42 PM, El Castor wrote:
    On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 12:26:03 -0700 (PDT), bruce bowser <bruce2bowser@gmail.com> wrote:

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/taliban-on-trump-we-hope-he-will-win-the-election-withdraw-us-troops/

    President Trump's reelection bid received a vote of support Friday from an >> entity most in his party would reject: the Taliban.

    Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid told CBS News in a phone interview,
    "We believe that Trump is going to win the upcoming election because he
    has proved himself a politician who accomplished all the major promises he >> had made to American people, although he might have missed some small
    things, but did accomplish the bigger promises, so it is possible that the >> U.S. people who experienced deceptions in the past will once again trust
    Trump for his decisive actions."

    Another senior Taliban leader told CBS News, "We hope he will win the
    election and wind up U.S. military presence in Afghanistan."
    - Gronk

    Oops, you forgot to mention the date of this piece -- Oct 11, 2020

    BTW -- Trump's proposed withdrawal from Afghanistan -- Good.

    Biden's execution of the withdrawal -- Pathetically Bad.

    I concur on the latter. I continue to be conflicted on the former, other
    than to note Biden agreed with it (and so do the majority of Americans).

    Having said that, had Trump been reelected, the Taliban would now be in
    control (and even earlier with the May 1 withdrawal date) with the same
    shit going down for the Afghani people. Whether Trump would have had a contingency plan to get us safely out for a rapid fall of the country we
    will never know for sure. I do however believe he had no plan as of
    January 19, 2021.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From El Castor@21:1/5 to noway@nowhere.com on Tue Sep 14 11:24:18 2021
    On Tue, 14 Sep 2021 08:47:34 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/13/2021 10:42 PM, El Castor wrote:
    On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 12:26:03 -0700 (PDT), bruce bowser
    <bruce2bowser@gmail.com> wrote:

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/taliban-on-trump-we-hope-he-will-win-the-election-withdraw-us-troops/

    President Trump's reelection bid received a vote of support Friday from an >>> entity most in his party would reject: the Taliban.

    Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid told CBS News in a phone interview, >>> "We believe that Trump is going to win the upcoming election because he
    has proved himself a politician who accomplished all the major promises he >>> had made to American people, although he might have missed some small
    things, but did accomplish the bigger promises, so it is possible that the >>> U.S. people who experienced deceptions in the past will once again trust >>> Trump for his decisive actions."

    Another senior Taliban leader told CBS News, "We hope he will win the
    election and wind up U.S. military presence in Afghanistan."
    - Gronk

    Oops, you forgot to mention the date of this piece -- Oct 11, 2020

    BTW -- Trump's proposed withdrawal from Afghanistan -- Good.

    Biden's execution of the withdrawal -- Pathetically Bad.

    I concur on the latter. I continue to be conflicted on the former, other
    than to note Biden agreed with it (and so do the majority of Americans).

    Having said that, had Trump been reelected, the Taliban would now be in >control (and even earlier with the May 1 withdrawal date) with the same
    shit going down for the Afghani people. Whether Trump would have had a >contingency plan to get us safely out for a rapid fall of the country we
    will never know for sure. I do however believe he had no plan as of
    January 19, 2021.

    The unanswered question is would Trump have listened to those in a
    position to give good advice on Afghanistan. In Trump's case we will
    never know, but in Biden's, the answer seems obvious. Possibly the
    worst aspect of this mess doesn't involve Afghanistan, but rather
    China. Taiwan, the home of the most advanced computer chip
    manufacturing plant in the world, is clearly on China's radar. Biden's
    inept weakness in Afghanistan might be interpreted by China as a sign
    that it's time to grab Taiwan. Looks like the age of American
    dominance is ending and the 21st century could see China assume our
    role. After all, they are smarter than we are. (-8

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Josh Rosenbluth@21:1/5 to El Castor on Tue Sep 14 19:56:02 2021
    On 9/14/2021 11:24 AM, El Castor wrote:
    On Tue, 14 Sep 2021 08:47:34 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/13/2021 10:42 PM, El Castor wrote:
    On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 12:26:03 -0700 (PDT), bruce bowser
    <bruce2bowser@gmail.com> wrote:

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/taliban-on-trump-we-hope-he-will-win-the-election-withdraw-us-troops/

    President Trump's reelection bid received a vote of support Friday from an >>>> entity most in his party would reject: the Taliban.

    Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid told CBS News in a phone interview, >>>> "We believe that Trump is going to win the upcoming election because he >>>> has proved himself a politician who accomplished all the major promises he >>>> had made to American people, although he might have missed some small
    things, but did accomplish the bigger promises, so it is possible that the >>>> U.S. people who experienced deceptions in the past will once again trust >>>> Trump for his decisive actions."

    Another senior Taliban leader told CBS News, "We hope he will win the
    election and wind up U.S. military presence in Afghanistan."
    - Gronk

    Oops, you forgot to mention the date of this piece -- Oct 11, 2020

    BTW -- Trump's proposed withdrawal from Afghanistan -- Good.

    Biden's execution of the withdrawal -- Pathetically Bad.

    I concur on the latter. I continue to be conflicted on the former, other
    than to note Biden agreed with it (and so do the majority of Americans).

    Having said that, had Trump been reelected, the Taliban would now be in
    control (and even earlier with the May 1 withdrawal date) with the same
    shit going down for the Afghani people. Whether Trump would have had a
    contingency plan to get us safely out for a rapid fall of the country we
    will never know for sure. I do however believe he had no plan as of
    January 19, 2021.

    The unanswered question is would Trump have listened to those in a
    position to give good advice on Afghanistan. In Trump's case we will
    never know, but in Biden's, the answer seems obvious. Possibly the
    worst aspect of this mess doesn't involve Afghanistan, but rather
    China. Taiwan, the home of the most advanced computer chip
    manufacturing plant in the world, is clearly on China's radar. Biden's
    inept weakness in Afghanistan might be interpreted by China as a sign
    that it's time to grab Taiwan. Looks like the age of American
    dominance is ending and the 21st century could see China assume our
    role. After all, they are smarter than we are. (-8

    With the publication of Woodward's latest book (Peril), we know. Trump
    drafted a memo a week after the election ordering the withdrawal of
    troops by January 15th. Although he backed down after everybody raised a
    stink, his instincts and desire were made clear. He was bugging out even
    before Biden did. The book also detailed how Blinken and Austin both
    urged Biden to delay the withdrawal into stages dependent on Taliban
    actions. Biden said no, citing how Obama was convinced by the military
    to extend the war back in 2009, and what a mistake that was.

    I don't think China is stupid enough to conclude our hasty retreat means
    Biden has become an isolationist. Biden would defend Taiwan.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From El Castor@21:1/5 to noway@nowhere.com on Tue Sep 14 22:48:30 2021
    On Tue, 14 Sep 2021 19:56:02 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/14/2021 11:24 AM, El Castor wrote:
    On Tue, 14 Sep 2021 08:47:34 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/13/2021 10:42 PM, El Castor wrote:
    On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 12:26:03 -0700 (PDT), bruce bowser
    <bruce2bowser@gmail.com> wrote:

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/taliban-on-trump-we-hope-he-will-win-the-election-withdraw-us-troops/

    President Trump's reelection bid received a vote of support Friday from an
    entity most in his party would reject: the Taliban.

    Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid told CBS News in a phone interview, >>>>> "We believe that Trump is going to win the upcoming election because he >>>>> has proved himself a politician who accomplished all the major promises he
    had made to American people, although he might have missed some small >>>>> things, but did accomplish the bigger promises, so it is possible that the
    U.S. people who experienced deceptions in the past will once again trust >>>>> Trump for his decisive actions."

    Another senior Taliban leader told CBS News, "We hope he will win the >>>>> election and wind up U.S. military presence in Afghanistan."
    - Gronk

    Oops, you forgot to mention the date of this piece -- Oct 11, 2020

    BTW -- Trump's proposed withdrawal from Afghanistan -- Good.

    Biden's execution of the withdrawal -- Pathetically Bad.

    I concur on the latter. I continue to be conflicted on the former, other >>> than to note Biden agreed with it (and so do the majority of Americans). >>>
    Having said that, had Trump been reelected, the Taliban would now be in
    control (and even earlier with the May 1 withdrawal date) with the same
    shit going down for the Afghani people. Whether Trump would have had a
    contingency plan to get us safely out for a rapid fall of the country we >>> will never know for sure. I do however believe he had no plan as of
    January 19, 2021.

    The unanswered question is would Trump have listened to those in a
    position to give good advice on Afghanistan. In Trump's case we will
    never know, but in Biden's, the answer seems obvious. Possibly the
    worst aspect of this mess doesn't involve Afghanistan, but rather
    China. Taiwan, the home of the most advanced computer chip
    manufacturing plant in the world, is clearly on China's radar. Biden's
    inept weakness in Afghanistan might be interpreted by China as a sign
    that it's time to grab Taiwan. Looks like the age of American
    dominance is ending and the 21st century could see China assume our
    role. After all, they are smarter than we are. (-8

    With the publication of Woodward's latest book (Peril), we know. Trump >drafted a memo a week after the election ordering the withdrawal of
    troops by January 15th. Although he backed down after everybody raised a >stink, his instincts and desire were made clear. He was bugging out even >before Biden did.

    Sorry, but it's too late to assume Trump would have screwed things up
    as badly as Biden. Perhaps Trump would have, but we will never know.

    As for Biden defending Taiwan, Biden's weak incompetence in
    Afghanistan, and even on our own border, is a fact that China and the
    rest of the world can't ignore.

    9/14: "Taiwan holds anti-invasion drill as China threat heightens" https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/taiwan-holds-anti-invasion-drill-as-china-threat-heightens-1.5585761









    The book also detailed how Blinken and Austin both
    urged Biden to delay the withdrawal into stages dependent on Taliban
    actions. Biden said no, citing how Obama was convinced by the military
    to extend the war back in 2009, and what a mistake that was.

    I don't think China is stupid enough to conclude our hasty retreat means >Biden has become an isolationist. Biden would defend Taiwan.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Josh Rosenbluth@21:1/5 to El Castor on Wed Sep 15 08:27:26 2021
    On 9/14/2021 10:48 PM, El Castor wrote:
    On Tue, 14 Sep 2021 19:56:02 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/14/2021 11:24 AM, El Castor wrote:
    On Tue, 14 Sep 2021 08:47:34 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/13/2021 10:42 PM, El Castor wrote:
    On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 12:26:03 -0700 (PDT), bruce bowser
    <bruce2bowser@gmail.com> wrote:

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/taliban-on-trump-we-hope-he-will-win-the-election-withdraw-us-troops/

    President Trump's reelection bid received a vote of support Friday from an
    entity most in his party would reject: the Taliban.

    Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid told CBS News in a phone interview, >>>>>> "We believe that Trump is going to win the upcoming election because he >>>>>> has proved himself a politician who accomplished all the major promises he
    had made to American people, although he might have missed some small >>>>>> things, but did accomplish the bigger promises, so it is possible that the
    U.S. people who experienced deceptions in the past will once again trust >>>>>> Trump for his decisive actions."

    Another senior Taliban leader told CBS News, "We hope he will win the >>>>>> election and wind up U.S. military presence in Afghanistan."
    - Gronk

    Oops, you forgot to mention the date of this piece -- Oct 11, 2020

    BTW -- Trump's proposed withdrawal from Afghanistan -- Good.

    Biden's execution of the withdrawal -- Pathetically Bad.

    I concur on the latter. I continue to be conflicted on the former, other >>>> than to note Biden agreed with it (and so do the majority of Americans). >>>>
    Having said that, had Trump been reelected, the Taliban would now be in >>>> control (and even earlier with the May 1 withdrawal date) with the same >>>> shit going down for the Afghani people. Whether Trump would have had a >>>> contingency plan to get us safely out for a rapid fall of the country we >>>> will never know for sure. I do however believe he had no plan as of
    January 19, 2021.

    The unanswered question is would Trump have listened to those in a
    position to give good advice on Afghanistan. In Trump's case we will
    never know, but in Biden's, the answer seems obvious. Possibly the
    worst aspect of this mess doesn't involve Afghanistan, but rather
    China. Taiwan, the home of the most advanced computer chip
    manufacturing plant in the world, is clearly on China's radar. Biden's
    inept weakness in Afghanistan might be interpreted by China as a sign
    that it's time to grab Taiwan. Looks like the age of American
    dominance is ending and the 21st century could see China assume our
    role. After all, they are smarter than we are. (-8

    With the publication of Woodward's latest book (Peril), we know. Trump
    drafted a memo a week after the election ordering the withdrawal of
    troops by January 15th. Although he backed down after everybody raised a
    stink, his instincts and desire were made clear. He was bugging out even
    before Biden did.

    Sorry, but it's too late to assume Trump would have screwed things up
    as badly as Biden. Perhaps Trump would have, but we will never know.

    As for Biden defending Taiwan, Biden's weak incompetence in
    Afghanistan, and even on our own border, is a fact that China and the
    rest of the world can't ignore.

    9/14: "Taiwan holds anti-invasion drill as China threat heightens" https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/taiwan-holds-anti-invasion-drill-as-china-threat-heightens-1.5585761

    You are, and China would be, making a big mistake by equating bugging
    out from a hopeless nation-building endevaor with defending the rights
    of the people of Taiwan.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From El Castor@21:1/5 to noway@nowhere.com on Wed Sep 15 11:13:08 2021
    On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 08:27:26 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/14/2021 10:48 PM, El Castor wrote:
    On Tue, 14 Sep 2021 19:56:02 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/14/2021 11:24 AM, El Castor wrote:
    On Tue, 14 Sep 2021 08:47:34 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/13/2021 10:42 PM, El Castor wrote:
    On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 12:26:03 -0700 (PDT), bruce bowser
    <bruce2bowser@gmail.com> wrote:

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/taliban-on-trump-we-hope-he-will-win-the-election-withdraw-us-troops/

    President Trump's reelection bid received a vote of support Friday from an
    entity most in his party would reject: the Taliban.

    Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid told CBS News in a phone interview,
    "We believe that Trump is going to win the upcoming election because he >>>>>>> has proved himself a politician who accomplished all the major promises he
    had made to American people, although he might have missed some small >>>>>>> things, but did accomplish the bigger promises, so it is possible that the
    U.S. people who experienced deceptions in the past will once again trust
    Trump for his decisive actions."

    Another senior Taliban leader told CBS News, "We hope he will win the >>>>>>> election and wind up U.S. military presence in Afghanistan."
    - Gronk

    Oops, you forgot to mention the date of this piece -- Oct 11, 2020 >>>>>>
    BTW -- Trump's proposed withdrawal from Afghanistan -- Good.

    Biden's execution of the withdrawal -- Pathetically Bad.

    I concur on the latter. I continue to be conflicted on the former, other >>>>> than to note Biden agreed with it (and so do the majority of Americans). >>>>>
    Having said that, had Trump been reelected, the Taliban would now be in >>>>> control (and even earlier with the May 1 withdrawal date) with the same >>>>> shit going down for the Afghani people. Whether Trump would have had a >>>>> contingency plan to get us safely out for a rapid fall of the country we >>>>> will never know for sure. I do however believe he had no plan as of
    January 19, 2021.

    The unanswered question is would Trump have listened to those in a
    position to give good advice on Afghanistan. In Trump's case we will
    never know, but in Biden's, the answer seems obvious. Possibly the
    worst aspect of this mess doesn't involve Afghanistan, but rather
    China. Taiwan, the home of the most advanced computer chip
    manufacturing plant in the world, is clearly on China's radar. Biden's >>>> inept weakness in Afghanistan might be interpreted by China as a sign
    that it's time to grab Taiwan. Looks like the age of American
    dominance is ending and the 21st century could see China assume our
    role. After all, they are smarter than we are. (-8

    With the publication of Woodward's latest book (Peril), we know. Trump
    drafted a memo a week after the election ordering the withdrawal of
    troops by January 15th. Although he backed down after everybody raised a >>> stink, his instincts and desire were made clear. He was bugging out even >>> before Biden did.

    Sorry, but it's too late to assume Trump would have screwed things up
    as badly as Biden. Perhaps Trump would have, but we will never know.

    As for Biden defending Taiwan, Biden's weak incompetence in
    Afghanistan, and even on our own border, is a fact that China and the
    rest of the world can't ignore.

    9/14: "Taiwan holds anti-invasion drill as China threat heightens"
    https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/taiwan-holds-anti-invasion-drill-as-china-threat-heightens-1.5585761

    You are, and China would be, making a big mistake by equating bugging
    out from a hopeless nation-building endevaor with defending the rights
    of the people of Taiwan.

    Apparently the people of Taiwan don't share your confidence in Biden:

    "Afghanistan today, Taiwan tomorrow? US treachery scares DPP
    US will abandon Taiwan in a crisis given its tarnished
    credibility:"...
    "The US retreat from Afghanistan has taught the island of Taiwan an
    important lesson, that is, the cross-Straits relations must be
    resolved by Taiwan itself, as the US may choose to abandon the island
    at any time according to its own core interests, Chang Ya-chung, a
    Taipei-based political scientist and member of the Kuomintang, told
    the Global Times on Monday." https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202108/1231635.shtml

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Josh Rosenbluth@21:1/5 to El Castor on Wed Sep 15 11:49:01 2021
    On 9/15/2021 11:13 AM, El Castor wrote:
    On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 08:27:26 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/14/2021 10:48 PM, El Castor wrote:
    On Tue, 14 Sep 2021 19:56:02 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/14/2021 11:24 AM, El Castor wrote:
    On Tue, 14 Sep 2021 08:47:34 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/13/2021 10:42 PM, El Castor wrote:
    On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 12:26:03 -0700 (PDT), bruce bowser
    <bruce2bowser@gmail.com> wrote:

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/taliban-on-trump-we-hope-he-will-win-the-election-withdraw-us-troops/

    President Trump's reelection bid received a vote of support Friday from an
    entity most in his party would reject: the Taliban.

    Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid told CBS News in a phone interview,
    "We believe that Trump is going to win the upcoming election because he
    has proved himself a politician who accomplished all the major promises he
    had made to American people, although he might have missed some small >>>>>>>> things, but did accomplish the bigger promises, so it is possible that the
    U.S. people who experienced deceptions in the past will once again trust
    Trump for his decisive actions."

    Another senior Taliban leader told CBS News, "We hope he will win the >>>>>>>> election and wind up U.S. military presence in Afghanistan."
    - Gronk

    Oops, you forgot to mention the date of this piece -- Oct 11, 2020 >>>>>>>
    BTW -- Trump's proposed withdrawal from Afghanistan -- Good.

    Biden's execution of the withdrawal -- Pathetically Bad.

    I concur on the latter. I continue to be conflicted on the former, other >>>>>> than to note Biden agreed with it (and so do the majority of Americans). >>>>>>
    Having said that, had Trump been reelected, the Taliban would now be in >>>>>> control (and even earlier with the May 1 withdrawal date) with the same >>>>>> shit going down for the Afghani people. Whether Trump would have had a >>>>>> contingency plan to get us safely out for a rapid fall of the country we >>>>>> will never know for sure. I do however believe he had no plan as of >>>>>> January 19, 2021.

    The unanswered question is would Trump have listened to those in a
    position to give good advice on Afghanistan. In Trump's case we will >>>>> never know, but in Biden's, the answer seems obvious. Possibly the
    worst aspect of this mess doesn't involve Afghanistan, but rather
    China. Taiwan, the home of the most advanced computer chip
    manufacturing plant in the world, is clearly on China's radar. Biden's >>>>> inept weakness in Afghanistan might be interpreted by China as a sign >>>>> that it's time to grab Taiwan. Looks like the age of American
    dominance is ending and the 21st century could see China assume our
    role. After all, they are smarter than we are. (-8

    With the publication of Woodward's latest book (Peril), we know. Trump >>>> drafted a memo a week after the election ordering the withdrawal of
    troops by January 15th. Although he backed down after everybody raised a >>>> stink, his instincts and desire were made clear. He was bugging out even >>>> before Biden did.

    Sorry, but it's too late to assume Trump would have screwed things up
    as badly as Biden. Perhaps Trump would have, but we will never know.

    As for Biden defending Taiwan, Biden's weak incompetence in
    Afghanistan, and even on our own border, is a fact that China and the
    rest of the world can't ignore.

    9/14: "Taiwan holds anti-invasion drill as China threat heightens"
    https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/taiwan-holds-anti-invasion-drill-as-china-threat-heightens-1.5585761

    You are, and China would be, making a big mistake by equating bugging
    out from a hopeless nation-building endevaor with defending the rights
    of the people of Taiwan.

    Apparently the people of Taiwan don't share your confidence in Biden:

    "Afghanistan today, Taiwan tomorrow? US treachery scares DPP
    US will abandon Taiwan in a crisis given its tarnished
    credibility:"...
    "The US retreat from Afghanistan has taught the island of Taiwan an
    important lesson, that is, the cross-Straits relations must be
    resolved by Taiwan itself, as the US may choose to abandon the island
    at any time according to its own core interests, Chang Ya-chung, a Taipei-based political scientist and member of the Kuomintang, told
    the Global Times on Monday." https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202108/1231635.shtml

    The Global Times is a propaganda rag of the Chinese Communist Party.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From El Castor@21:1/5 to noway@nowhere.com on Wed Sep 15 13:29:38 2021
    On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 11:49:01 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/15/2021 11:13 AM, El Castor wrote:
    On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 08:27:26 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/14/2021 10:48 PM, El Castor wrote:
    On Tue, 14 Sep 2021 19:56:02 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/14/2021 11:24 AM, El Castor wrote:
    On Tue, 14 Sep 2021 08:47:34 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/13/2021 10:42 PM, El Castor wrote:
    On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 12:26:03 -0700 (PDT), bruce bowser
    <bruce2bowser@gmail.com> wrote:

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/taliban-on-trump-we-hope-he-will-win-the-election-withdraw-us-troops/

    President Trump's reelection bid received a vote of support Friday from an
    entity most in his party would reject: the Taliban.

    Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid told CBS News in a phone interview,
    "We believe that Trump is going to win the upcoming election because he
    has proved himself a politician who accomplished all the major promises he
    had made to American people, although he might have missed some small >>>>>>>>> things, but did accomplish the bigger promises, so it is possible that the
    U.S. people who experienced deceptions in the past will once again trust
    Trump for his decisive actions."

    Another senior Taliban leader told CBS News, "We hope he will win the >>>>>>>>> election and wind up U.S. military presence in Afghanistan." >>>>>>>>> - Gronk

    Oops, you forgot to mention the date of this piece -- Oct 11, 2020 >>>>>>>>
    BTW -- Trump's proposed withdrawal from Afghanistan -- Good.

    Biden's execution of the withdrawal -- Pathetically Bad.

    I concur on the latter. I continue to be conflicted on the former, other
    than to note Biden agreed with it (and so do the majority of Americans).

    Having said that, had Trump been reelected, the Taliban would now be in >>>>>>> control (and even earlier with the May 1 withdrawal date) with the same >>>>>>> shit going down for the Afghani people. Whether Trump would have had a >>>>>>> contingency plan to get us safely out for a rapid fall of the country we
    will never know for sure. I do however believe he had no plan as of >>>>>>> January 19, 2021.

    The unanswered question is would Trump have listened to those in a >>>>>> position to give good advice on Afghanistan. In Trump's case we will >>>>>> never know, but in Biden's, the answer seems obvious. Possibly the >>>>>> worst aspect of this mess doesn't involve Afghanistan, but rather
    China. Taiwan, the home of the most advanced computer chip
    manufacturing plant in the world, is clearly on China's radar. Biden's >>>>>> inept weakness in Afghanistan might be interpreted by China as a sign >>>>>> that it's time to grab Taiwan. Looks like the age of American
    dominance is ending and the 21st century could see China assume our >>>>>> role. After all, they are smarter than we are. (-8

    With the publication of Woodward's latest book (Peril), we know. Trump >>>>> drafted a memo a week after the election ordering the withdrawal of
    troops by January 15th. Although he backed down after everybody raised a >>>>> stink, his instincts and desire were made clear. He was bugging out even >>>>> before Biden did.

    Sorry, but it's too late to assume Trump would have screwed things up
    as badly as Biden. Perhaps Trump would have, but we will never know.

    As for Biden defending Taiwan, Biden's weak incompetence in
    Afghanistan, and even on our own border, is a fact that China and the
    rest of the world can't ignore.

    9/14: "Taiwan holds anti-invasion drill as China threat heightens"
    https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/taiwan-holds-anti-invasion-drill-as-china-threat-heightens-1.5585761

    You are, and China would be, making a big mistake by equating bugging
    out from a hopeless nation-building endevaor with defending the rights
    of the people of Taiwan.

    Apparently the people of Taiwan don't share your confidence in Biden:

    "Afghanistan today, Taiwan tomorrow? US treachery scares DPP
    US will abandon Taiwan in a crisis given its tarnished
    credibility:"...
    "The US retreat from Afghanistan has taught the island of Taiwan an
    important lesson, that is, the cross-Straits relations must be
    resolved by Taiwan itself, as the US may choose to abandon the island
    at any time according to its own core interests, Chang Ya-chung, a
    Taipei-based political scientist and member of the Kuomintang, told
    the Global Times on Monday."
    https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202108/1231635.shtml

    The Global Times is a propaganda rag of the Chinese Communist Party.

    I admit I have a problem finding a leftwing site critical of Bidens
    weakness, but here is something from the Brits ...
    "White House backtracks after Biden appears to say US would defend
    Taiwan against China"
    "A senior Biden administration official said US policy on Taiwan had
    not changed after President Joe Biden appeared to suggest the US would
    defend the island if it were attacked, a deviation from a long-held US
    position of “strategic ambiguity”." https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/20/biden-taiwan-china-us-defence

    Let's hope we don't find ourselves at war with China.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Josh Rosenbluth@21:1/5 to El Castor on Wed Sep 15 13:36:34 2021
    On 9/15/2021 1:29 PM, El Castor wrote:
    On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 11:49:01 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/15/2021 11:13 AM, El Castor wrote:
    On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 08:27:26 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/14/2021 10:48 PM, El Castor wrote:
    On Tue, 14 Sep 2021 19:56:02 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/14/2021 11:24 AM, El Castor wrote:
    On Tue, 14 Sep 2021 08:47:34 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/13/2021 10:42 PM, El Castor wrote:
    On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 12:26:03 -0700 (PDT), bruce bowser
    <bruce2bowser@gmail.com> wrote:

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/taliban-on-trump-we-hope-he-will-win-the-election-withdraw-us-troops/

    President Trump's reelection bid received a vote of support Friday from an
    entity most in his party would reject: the Taliban.

    Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid told CBS News in a phone interview,
    "We believe that Trump is going to win the upcoming election because he
    has proved himself a politician who accomplished all the major promises he
    had made to American people, although he might have missed some small
    things, but did accomplish the bigger promises, so it is possible that the
    U.S. people who experienced deceptions in the past will once again trust
    Trump for his decisive actions."

    Another senior Taliban leader told CBS News, "We hope he will win the
    election and wind up U.S. military presence in Afghanistan." >>>>>>>>>> - Gronk

    Oops, you forgot to mention the date of this piece -- Oct 11, 2020 >>>>>>>>>
    BTW -- Trump's proposed withdrawal from Afghanistan -- Good. >>>>>>>>>
    Biden's execution of the withdrawal -- Pathetically Bad.

    I concur on the latter. I continue to be conflicted on the former, other
    than to note Biden agreed with it (and so do the majority of Americans).

    Having said that, had Trump been reelected, the Taliban would now be in
    control (and even earlier with the May 1 withdrawal date) with the same
    shit going down for the Afghani people. Whether Trump would have had a >>>>>>>> contingency plan to get us safely out for a rapid fall of the country we
    will never know for sure. I do however believe he had no plan as of >>>>>>>> January 19, 2021.

    The unanswered question is would Trump have listened to those in a >>>>>>> position to give good advice on Afghanistan. In Trump's case we will >>>>>>> never know, but in Biden's, the answer seems obvious. Possibly the >>>>>>> worst aspect of this mess doesn't involve Afghanistan, but rather >>>>>>> China. Taiwan, the home of the most advanced computer chip
    manufacturing plant in the world, is clearly on China's radar. Biden's >>>>>>> inept weakness in Afghanistan might be interpreted by China as a sign >>>>>>> that it's time to grab Taiwan. Looks like the age of American
    dominance is ending and the 21st century could see China assume our >>>>>>> role. After all, they are smarter than we are. (-8

    With the publication of Woodward's latest book (Peril), we know. Trump >>>>>> drafted a memo a week after the election ordering the withdrawal of >>>>>> troops by January 15th. Although he backed down after everybody raised a >>>>>> stink, his instincts and desire were made clear. He was bugging out even >>>>>> before Biden did.

    Sorry, but it's too late to assume Trump would have screwed things up >>>>> as badly as Biden. Perhaps Trump would have, but we will never know. >>>>>
    As for Biden defending Taiwan, Biden's weak incompetence in
    Afghanistan, and even on our own border, is a fact that China and the >>>>> rest of the world can't ignore.

    9/14: "Taiwan holds anti-invasion drill as China threat heightens"
    https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/taiwan-holds-anti-invasion-drill-as-china-threat-heightens-1.5585761

    You are, and China would be, making a big mistake by equating bugging
    out from a hopeless nation-building endevaor with defending the rights >>>> of the people of Taiwan.

    Apparently the people of Taiwan don't share your confidence in Biden:

    "Afghanistan today, Taiwan tomorrow? US treachery scares DPP
    US will abandon Taiwan in a crisis given its tarnished
    credibility:"...
    "The US retreat from Afghanistan has taught the island of Taiwan an
    important lesson, that is, the cross-Straits relations must be
    resolved by Taiwan itself, as the US may choose to abandon the island
    at any time according to its own core interests, Chang Ya-chung, a
    Taipei-based political scientist and member of the Kuomintang, told
    the Global Times on Monday."
    https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202108/1231635.shtml

    The Global Times is a propaganda rag of the Chinese Communist Party.

    I admit I have a problem finding a leftwing site critical of Bidens
    weakness,

    The propaganda arm of the Chinese Communist Party is about as left wing
    as you can get.

    but here is something from the Brits ...
    "White House backtracks after Biden appears to say US would defend
    Taiwan against China"
    "A senior Biden administration official said US policy on Taiwan had
    not changed after President Joe Biden appeared to suggest the US would
    defend the island if it were attacked, a deviation from a long-held US position of “strategic ambiguity”." https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/20/biden-taiwan-china-us-defence

    Let's hope we don't find ourselves at war with China.

    Firstly, you can see Biden's instincts on Taiwan are polar opposite of
    his instincts on Afghanistan. Secondly, the "strategic ambiguity"
    official policy of the United States (long held by administrations of
    both parties) is also far different than Biden's view of Afghanistan.

    There is simply nothing in Afghanistan that informs us how Biden treats
    Taiwan.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From El Castor@21:1/5 to noway@nowhere.com on Wed Sep 15 19:12:21 2021
    On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 13:36:34 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/15/2021 1:29 PM, El Castor wrote:
    On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 11:49:01 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/15/2021 11:13 AM, El Castor wrote:
    On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 08:27:26 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/14/2021 10:48 PM, El Castor wrote:
    On Tue, 14 Sep 2021 19:56:02 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/14/2021 11:24 AM, El Castor wrote:
    On Tue, 14 Sep 2021 08:47:34 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/13/2021 10:42 PM, El Castor wrote:
    On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 12:26:03 -0700 (PDT), bruce bowser
    <bruce2bowser@gmail.com> wrote:

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/taliban-on-trump-we-hope-he-will-win-the-election-withdraw-us-troops/

    President Trump's reelection bid received a vote of support Friday from an
    entity most in his party would reject: the Taliban.

    Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid told CBS News in a phone interview,
    "We believe that Trump is going to win the upcoming election because he
    has proved himself a politician who accomplished all the major promises he
    had made to American people, although he might have missed some small
    things, but did accomplish the bigger promises, so it is possible that the
    U.S. people who experienced deceptions in the past will once again trust
    Trump for his decisive actions."

    Another senior Taliban leader told CBS News, "We hope he will win the
    election and wind up U.S. military presence in Afghanistan." >>>>>>>>>>> - Gronk

    Oops, you forgot to mention the date of this piece -- Oct 11, 2020 >>>>>>>>>>
    BTW -- Trump's proposed withdrawal from Afghanistan -- Good. >>>>>>>>>>
    Biden's execution of the withdrawal -- Pathetically Bad.

    I concur on the latter. I continue to be conflicted on the former, other
    than to note Biden agreed with it (and so do the majority of Americans).

    Having said that, had Trump been reelected, the Taliban would now be in
    control (and even earlier with the May 1 withdrawal date) with the same
    shit going down for the Afghani people. Whether Trump would have had a
    contingency plan to get us safely out for a rapid fall of the country we
    will never know for sure. I do however believe he had no plan as of >>>>>>>>> January 19, 2021.

    The unanswered question is would Trump have listened to those in a >>>>>>>> position to give good advice on Afghanistan. In Trump's case we will >>>>>>>> never know, but in Biden's, the answer seems obvious. Possibly the >>>>>>>> worst aspect of this mess doesn't involve Afghanistan, but rather >>>>>>>> China. Taiwan, the home of the most advanced computer chip
    manufacturing plant in the world, is clearly on China's radar. Biden's >>>>>>>> inept weakness in Afghanistan might be interpreted by China as a sign >>>>>>>> that it's time to grab Taiwan. Looks like the age of American
    dominance is ending and the 21st century could see China assume our >>>>>>>> role. After all, they are smarter than we are. (-8

    With the publication of Woodward's latest book (Peril), we know. Trump >>>>>>> drafted a memo a week after the election ordering the withdrawal of >>>>>>> troops by January 15th. Although he backed down after everybody raised a
    stink, his instincts and desire were made clear. He was bugging out even
    before Biden did.

    Sorry, but it's too late to assume Trump would have screwed things up >>>>>> as badly as Biden. Perhaps Trump would have, but we will never know. >>>>>>
    As for Biden defending Taiwan, Biden's weak incompetence in
    Afghanistan, and even on our own border, is a fact that China and the >>>>>> rest of the world can't ignore.

    9/14: "Taiwan holds anti-invasion drill as China threat heightens" >>>>>> https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/taiwan-holds-anti-invasion-drill-as-china-threat-heightens-1.5585761

    You are, and China would be, making a big mistake by equating bugging >>>>> out from a hopeless nation-building endevaor with defending the rights >>>>> of the people of Taiwan.

    Apparently the people of Taiwan don't share your confidence in Biden:

    "Afghanistan today, Taiwan tomorrow? US treachery scares DPP
    US will abandon Taiwan in a crisis given its tarnished
    credibility:"...
    "The US retreat from Afghanistan has taught the island of Taiwan an
    important lesson, that is, the cross-Straits relations must be
    resolved by Taiwan itself, as the US may choose to abandon the island
    at any time according to its own core interests, Chang Ya-chung, a
    Taipei-based political scientist and member of the Kuomintang, told
    the Global Times on Monday."
    https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202108/1231635.shtml

    The Global Times is a propaganda rag of the Chinese Communist Party.

    I admit I have a problem finding a leftwing site critical of Bidens
    weakness,

    The propaganda arm of the Chinese Communist Party is about as left wing
    as you can get.

    but here is something from the Brits ...
    "White House backtracks after Biden appears to say US would defend
    Taiwan against China"
    "A senior Biden administration official said US policy on Taiwan had
    not changed after President Joe Biden appeared to suggest the US would
    defend the island if it were attacked, a deviation from a long-held US
    position of “strategic ambiguity”."
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/20/biden-taiwan-china-us-defence >>
    Let's hope we don't find ourselves at war with China.

    Firstly, you can see Biden's instincts on Taiwan are polar opposite of
    his instincts on Afghanistan. Secondly, the "strategic ambiguity"
    official policy of the United States (long held by administrations of
    both parties) is also far different than Biden's view of Afghanistan.

    There is simply nothing in Afghanistan that informs us how Biden treats >Taiwan.

    Simply nothing that informs? Nothing other than a lack of planning,
    inept execution, and a betrayal of years of promises. If China invades
    Taiwan, what to expect? More betrayals and broken promises or perhaps
    US aircraft attacking Chinese shipping, aircraft, and dozens of
    Chinese airfields? Perhaps an embargo? Oh well, nothing to worry about
    -- we've got Creepy Joe looking out for us.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Josh Rosenbluth@21:1/5 to El Castor on Wed Sep 15 20:08:17 2021
    On 9/15/2021 7:12 PM, El Castor wrote:
    On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 13:36:34 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/15/2021 1:29 PM, El Castor wrote:
    On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 11:49:01 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/15/2021 11:13 AM, El Castor wrote:
    On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 08:27:26 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/14/2021 10:48 PM, El Castor wrote:
    On Tue, 14 Sep 2021 19:56:02 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/14/2021 11:24 AM, El Castor wrote:
    On Tue, 14 Sep 2021 08:47:34 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/13/2021 10:42 PM, El Castor wrote:
    On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 12:26:03 -0700 (PDT), bruce bowser
    <bruce2bowser@gmail.com> wrote:

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/taliban-on-trump-we-hope-he-will-win-the-election-withdraw-us-troops/

    President Trump's reelection bid received a vote of support Friday from an
    entity most in his party would reject: the Taliban.

    Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid told CBS News in a phone interview,
    "We believe that Trump is going to win the upcoming election because he
    has proved himself a politician who accomplished all the major promises he
    had made to American people, although he might have missed some small
    things, but did accomplish the bigger promises, so it is possible that the
    U.S. people who experienced deceptions in the past will once again trust
    Trump for his decisive actions."

    Another senior Taliban leader told CBS News, "We hope he will win the
    election and wind up U.S. military presence in Afghanistan." >>>>>>>>>>>> - Gronk

    Oops, you forgot to mention the date of this piece -- Oct 11, 2020 >>>>>>>>>>>
    BTW -- Trump's proposed withdrawal from Afghanistan -- Good. >>>>>>>>>>>
    Biden's execution of the withdrawal -- Pathetically Bad.

    I concur on the latter. I continue to be conflicted on the former, other
    than to note Biden agreed with it (and so do the majority of Americans).

    Having said that, had Trump been reelected, the Taliban would now be in
    control (and even earlier with the May 1 withdrawal date) with the same
    shit going down for the Afghani people. Whether Trump would have had a
    contingency plan to get us safely out for a rapid fall of the country we
    will never know for sure. I do however believe he had no plan as of >>>>>>>>>> January 19, 2021.

    The unanswered question is would Trump have listened to those in a >>>>>>>>> position to give good advice on Afghanistan. In Trump's case we will >>>>>>>>> never know, but in Biden's, the answer seems obvious. Possibly the >>>>>>>>> worst aspect of this mess doesn't involve Afghanistan, but rather >>>>>>>>> China. Taiwan, the home of the most advanced computer chip
    manufacturing plant in the world, is clearly on China's radar. Biden's
    inept weakness in Afghanistan might be interpreted by China as a sign >>>>>>>>> that it's time to grab Taiwan. Looks like the age of American >>>>>>>>> dominance is ending and the 21st century could see China assume our >>>>>>>>> role. After all, they are smarter than we are. (-8

    With the publication of Woodward's latest book (Peril), we know. Trump >>>>>>>> drafted a memo a week after the election ordering the withdrawal of >>>>>>>> troops by January 15th. Although he backed down after everybody raised a
    stink, his instincts and desire were made clear. He was bugging out even
    before Biden did.

    Sorry, but it's too late to assume Trump would have screwed things up >>>>>>> as badly as Biden. Perhaps Trump would have, but we will never know. >>>>>>>
    As for Biden defending Taiwan, Biden's weak incompetence in
    Afghanistan, and even on our own border, is a fact that China and the >>>>>>> rest of the world can't ignore.

    9/14: "Taiwan holds anti-invasion drill as China threat heightens" >>>>>>> https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/taiwan-holds-anti-invasion-drill-as-china-threat-heightens-1.5585761

    You are, and China would be, making a big mistake by equating bugging >>>>>> out from a hopeless nation-building endevaor with defending the rights >>>>>> of the people of Taiwan.

    Apparently the people of Taiwan don't share your confidence in Biden: >>>>>
    "Afghanistan today, Taiwan tomorrow? US treachery scares DPP
    US will abandon Taiwan in a crisis given its tarnished
    credibility:"...
    "The US retreat from Afghanistan has taught the island of Taiwan an
    important lesson, that is, the cross-Straits relations must be
    resolved by Taiwan itself, as the US may choose to abandon the island >>>>> at any time according to its own core interests, Chang Ya-chung, a
    Taipei-based political scientist and member of the Kuomintang, told
    the Global Times on Monday."
    https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202108/1231635.shtml

    The Global Times is a propaganda rag of the Chinese Communist Party.

    I admit I have a problem finding a leftwing site critical of Bidens
    weakness,

    The propaganda arm of the Chinese Communist Party is about as left wing
    as you can get.

    but here is something from the Brits ...
    "White House backtracks after Biden appears to say US would defend
    Taiwan against China"
    "A senior Biden administration official said US policy on Taiwan had
    not changed after President Joe Biden appeared to suggest the US would
    defend the island if it were attacked, a deviation from a long-held US
    position of “strategic ambiguity”."
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/20/biden-taiwan-china-us-defence >>>
    Let's hope we don't find ourselves at war with China.

    Firstly, you can see Biden's instincts on Taiwan are polar opposite of
    his instincts on Afghanistan. Secondly, the "strategic ambiguity"
    official policy of the United States (long held by administrations of
    both parties) is also far different than Biden's view of Afghanistan.

    There is simply nothing in Afghanistan that informs us how Biden treats
    Taiwan.

    Simply nothing that informs? Nothing other than a lack of planning,
    inept execution, and a betrayal of years of promises.

    What betrayals and broken promises?

    If China invades
    Taiwan, what to expect? More betrayals and broken promises or perhaps
    US aircraft attacking Chinese shipping, aircraft, and dozens of
    Chinese airfields? Perhaps an embargo? Oh well, nothing to worry about
    -- we've got Creepy Joe looking out for us

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From El Castor@21:1/5 to noway@nowhere.com on Wed Sep 15 23:07:46 2021
    On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 20:08:17 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/15/2021 7:12 PM, El Castor wrote:
    On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 13:36:34 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/15/2021 1:29 PM, El Castor wrote:
    On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 11:49:01 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/15/2021 11:13 AM, El Castor wrote:
    On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 08:27:26 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/14/2021 10:48 PM, El Castor wrote:
    On Tue, 14 Sep 2021 19:56:02 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/14/2021 11:24 AM, El Castor wrote:
    On Tue, 14 Sep 2021 08:47:34 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/13/2021 10:42 PM, El Castor wrote:
    On Mon, 13 Sep 2021 12:26:03 -0700 (PDT), bruce bowser >>>>>>>>>>>> <bruce2bowser@gmail.com> wrote:

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/taliban-on-trump-we-hope-he-will-win-the-election-withdraw-us-troops/

    President Trump's reelection bid received a vote of support Friday from an
    entity most in his party would reject: the Taliban.

    Taliban spokesman Zabihullah Mujahid told CBS News in a phone interview,
    "We believe that Trump is going to win the upcoming election because he
    has proved himself a politician who accomplished all the major promises he
    had made to American people, although he might have missed some small
    things, but did accomplish the bigger promises, so it is possible that the
    U.S. people who experienced deceptions in the past will once again trust
    Trump for his decisive actions."

    Another senior Taliban leader told CBS News, "We hope he will win the
    election and wind up U.S. military presence in Afghanistan." >>>>>>>>>>>>> - Gronk

    Oops, you forgot to mention the date of this piece -- Oct 11, 2020 >>>>>>>>>>>>
    BTW -- Trump's proposed withdrawal from Afghanistan -- Good. >>>>>>>>>>>>
    Biden's execution of the withdrawal -- Pathetically Bad. >>>>>>>>>>>
    I concur on the latter. I continue to be conflicted on the former, other
    than to note Biden agreed with it (and so do the majority of Americans).

    Having said that, had Trump been reelected, the Taliban would now be in
    control (and even earlier with the May 1 withdrawal date) with the same
    shit going down for the Afghani people. Whether Trump would have had a
    contingency plan to get us safely out for a rapid fall of the country we
    will never know for sure. I do however believe he had no plan as of >>>>>>>>>>> January 19, 2021.

    The unanswered question is would Trump have listened to those in a >>>>>>>>>> position to give good advice on Afghanistan. In Trump's case we will >>>>>>>>>> never know, but in Biden's, the answer seems obvious. Possibly the >>>>>>>>>> worst aspect of this mess doesn't involve Afghanistan, but rather >>>>>>>>>> China. Taiwan, the home of the most advanced computer chip >>>>>>>>>> manufacturing plant in the world, is clearly on China's radar. Biden's
    inept weakness in Afghanistan might be interpreted by China as a sign
    that it's time to grab Taiwan. Looks like the age of American >>>>>>>>>> dominance is ending and the 21st century could see China assume our >>>>>>>>>> role. After all, they are smarter than we are. (-8

    With the publication of Woodward's latest book (Peril), we know. Trump
    drafted a memo a week after the election ordering the withdrawal of >>>>>>>>> troops by January 15th. Although he backed down after everybody raised a
    stink, his instincts and desire were made clear. He was bugging out even
    before Biden did.

    Sorry, but it's too late to assume Trump would have screwed things up >>>>>>>> as badly as Biden. Perhaps Trump would have, but we will never know. >>>>>>>>
    As for Biden defending Taiwan, Biden's weak incompetence in
    Afghanistan, and even on our own border, is a fact that China and the >>>>>>>> rest of the world can't ignore.

    9/14: "Taiwan holds anti-invasion drill as China threat heightens" >>>>>>>> https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/taiwan-holds-anti-invasion-drill-as-china-threat-heightens-1.5585761

    You are, and China would be, making a big mistake by equating bugging >>>>>>> out from a hopeless nation-building endevaor with defending the rights >>>>>>> of the people of Taiwan.

    Apparently the people of Taiwan don't share your confidence in Biden: >>>>>>
    "Afghanistan today, Taiwan tomorrow? US treachery scares DPP
    US will abandon Taiwan in a crisis given its tarnished
    credibility:"...
    "The US retreat from Afghanistan has taught the island of Taiwan an >>>>>> important lesson, that is, the cross-Straits relations must be
    resolved by Taiwan itself, as the US may choose to abandon the island >>>>>> at any time according to its own core interests, Chang Ya-chung, a >>>>>> Taipei-based political scientist and member of the Kuomintang, told >>>>>> the Global Times on Monday."
    https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202108/1231635.shtml

    The Global Times is a propaganda rag of the Chinese Communist Party.

    I admit I have a problem finding a leftwing site critical of Bidens
    weakness,

    The propaganda arm of the Chinese Communist Party is about as left wing
    as you can get.

    but here is something from the Brits ...
    "White House backtracks after Biden appears to say US would defend
    Taiwan against China"
    "A senior Biden administration official said US policy on Taiwan had
    not changed after President Joe Biden appeared to suggest the US would >>>> defend the island if it were attacked, a deviation from a long-held US >>>> position of “strategic ambiguity”."
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/aug/20/biden-taiwan-china-us-defence

    Let's hope we don't find ourselves at war with China.

    Firstly, you can see Biden's instincts on Taiwan are polar opposite of
    his instincts on Afghanistan. Secondly, the "strategic ambiguity"
    official policy of the United States (long held by administrations of
    both parties) is also far different than Biden's view of Afghanistan.

    There is simply nothing in Afghanistan that informs us how Biden treats
    Taiwan.

    Simply nothing that informs? Nothing other than a lack of planning,
    inept execution, and a betrayal of years of promises.

    What betrayals and broken promises?

    "Biden’s Betrayal of Afghans Will Live in Infamy
    Our abandonment of the Afghans who helped us, counted on us, and
    staked their lives on us is a final, gratuitous shame that we could
    have avoided." https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/08/bidens-betrayal-of-afghans-will-live-in-infamy/619764/

    "A resettlement agency official aiding Afghan refugees is angered that
    the US left allies behind in Afghanistan.
    "We're frankly pretty angry that our government has not kept its
    promise to so many of those people," Matthew Soerens of World Relief
    told Insider.
    A State Department official estimated Wednesday that the US left
    behind "the majority" of special immigrant visa applicants in
    Afghanistan." https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/agency-official-whos-resettling-afghan-refugees-angry-that-us-left-allies-behind-our-government-has-not-kept-its-promise/ar-AAO1Up9?ocid=uxbndlbing

    "It’s evident that the expedited retreat of American forces from
    Afghanistan was not part of any credible military plan, which would
    have run a civilian-evacuation campaign before an orderly withdrawal
    of troops and the destruction of left-behind matériel and military
    bases. Biden insisted on his bungled exit for the political optics of announcing “mission accomplished” by the iconic date of Sept. 11. Few
    foreign observers would disagree with former Vice President Mike
    Pence’s view that the botched withdrawal “is a foreign-policy
    humiliation unlike anything our country has endured since the Iran
    hostage crisis.” The American retreat must confirm to the Gulf Sunni
    states that relying on the U.S. security presence is a risky
    proposition, at best. " https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2021/09/14/the_gulf_arab_states_and_bidens_afghanistan_betrayal_146396.html

    "Prematurely exiting Afghanistan has far-reaching implications, and
    will cause friends and foes alike to question America's foreign policy commitments. It is a major blow to U.S. credibility, capacity and
    geopolitical leverage." https://www.newsweek.com/cost-betrayal-afghanistan-opinion-1620604

    If China invades
    Taiwan, what to expect? More betrayals and broken promises or perhaps
    US aircraft attacking Chinese shipping, aircraft, and dozens of
    Chinese airfields? Perhaps an embargo? Oh well, nothing to worry about
    -- we've got Creepy Joe looking out for us

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Josh Rosenbluth@21:1/5 to El Castor on Thu Sep 16 08:56:45 2021
    On 9/15/2021 11:07 PM, El Castor wrote:
    On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 20:08:17 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/15/2021 7:12 PM, El Castor wrote:

    {snip}

    Simply nothing that informs? Nothing other than a lack of planning,
    inept execution, and a betrayal of years of promises.

    What betrayals and broken promises?

    "Biden’s Betrayal of Afghans Will Live in Infamy
    Our abandonment of the Afghans who helped us, counted on us, and
    staked their lives on us is a final, gratuitous shame that we could
    have avoided." https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/08/bidens-betrayal-of-afghans-will-live-in-infamy/619764/

    "A resettlement agency official aiding Afghan refugees is angered that
    the US left allies behind in Afghanistan.
    "We're frankly pretty angry that our government has not kept its
    promise to so many of those people," Matthew Soerens of World Relief
    told Insider.
    A State Department official estimated Wednesday that the US left
    behind "the majority" of special immigrant visa applicants in
    Afghanistan." https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/agency-official-whos-resettling-afghan-refugees-angry-that-us-left-allies-behind-our-government-has-not-kept-its-promise/ar-AAO1Up9?ocid=uxbndlbing

    "It’s evident that the expedited retreat of American forces from Afghanistan was not part of any credible military plan, which would
    have run a civilian-evacuation campaign before an orderly withdrawal
    of troops and the destruction of left-behind matériel and military
    bases. Biden insisted on his bungled exit for the political optics of announcing “mission accomplished” by the iconic date of Sept. 11. Few foreign observers would disagree with former Vice President Mike
    Pence’s view that the botched withdrawal “is a foreign-policy
    humiliation unlike anything our country has endured since the Iran
    hostage crisis.” The American retreat must confirm to the Gulf Sunni
    states that relying on the U.S. security presence is a risky
    proposition, at best. " https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2021/09/14/the_gulf_arab_states_and_bidens_afghanistan_betrayal_146396.html

    "Prematurely exiting Afghanistan has far-reaching implications, and
    will cause friends and foes alike to question America's foreign policy commitments. It is a major blow to U.S. credibility, capacity and geopolitical leverage." https://www.newsweek.com/cost-betrayal-afghanistan-opinion-1620604

    So, the betrayal wasn't leaving, it was leaving without getting out
    those who worked for us behind. Sorry, if that is the case, that is no indication of weakness in our Taiwan policy because we aren't leaving
    Taiwan in the first place.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From El Castor@21:1/5 to noway@nowhere.com on Thu Sep 16 11:28:24 2021
    On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 08:56:45 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/15/2021 11:07 PM, El Castor wrote:
    On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 20:08:17 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/15/2021 7:12 PM, El Castor wrote:

    {snip}

    Simply nothing that informs? Nothing other than a lack of planning,
    inept execution, and a betrayal of years of promises.

    What betrayals and broken promises?

    "Biden’s Betrayal of Afghans Will Live in Infamy
    Our abandonment of the Afghans who helped us, counted on us, and
    staked their lives on us is a final, gratuitous shame that we could
    have avoided."
    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/08/bidens-betrayal-of-afghans-will-live-in-infamy/619764/

    "A resettlement agency official aiding Afghan refugees is angered that
    the US left allies behind in Afghanistan.
    "We're frankly pretty angry that our government has not kept its
    promise to so many of those people," Matthew Soerens of World Relief
    told Insider.
    A State Department official estimated Wednesday that the US left
    behind "the majority" of special immigrant visa applicants in
    Afghanistan."
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/agency-official-whos-resettling-afghan-refugees-angry-that-us-left-allies-behind-our-government-has-not-kept-its-promise/ar-AAO1Up9?ocid=uxbndlbing

    "It’s evident that the expedited retreat of American forces from
    Afghanistan was not part of any credible military plan, which would
    have run a civilian-evacuation campaign before an orderly withdrawal
    of troops and the destruction of left-behind matériel and military
    bases. Biden insisted on his bungled exit for the political optics of
    announcing “mission accomplished” by the iconic date of Sept. 11. Few
    foreign observers would disagree with former Vice President Mike
    Pence’s view that the botched withdrawal “is a foreign-policy
    humiliation unlike anything our country has endured since the Iran
    hostage crisis.” The American retreat must confirm to the Gulf Sunni
    states that relying on the U.S. security presence is a risky
    proposition, at best. "
    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2021/09/14/the_gulf_arab_states_and_bidens_afghanistan_betrayal_146396.html

    "Prematurely exiting Afghanistan has far-reaching implications, and
    will cause friends and foes alike to question America's foreign policy
    commitments. It is a major blow to U.S. credibility, capacity and
    geopolitical leverage."
    https://www.newsweek.com/cost-betrayal-afghanistan-opinion-1620604

    So, the betrayal wasn't leaving, it was leaving without getting out
    those who worked for us behind. Sorry, if that is the case, that is no >indication of weakness in our Taiwan policy because we aren't leaving
    Taiwan in the first place.

    The Afghan betrayal went beyond broken promises to the Afghans who
    aided us -- it included many American citizens who we left behind, as
    well as members of the government we helped to establish, and the
    women and girls who were allowed to enjoy an education and freedom
    unknown in a fundamentalist Afghanistan. Those days have ended for
    them. And needless to say, our hasty poorly conceived departure must
    have other allies in the Middle East wondering if their reliance on
    the US is a mistake.

    The problem, or perhaps virtue, in the case of Taiwan is Biden's unpredictability. How will he react to an invasion, or an obviously
    impending invasion? If Afghanistatan is any indication, he will be
    planless, weak and indecisive. From the Chinese perspective this must
    appear to be an opportunity too good to pass up. Taiwan is probably
    gone. Personally, my biggest concern is that Biden in an attempt to
    appear strong and decisive might inadvertently get us into a
    disastrous war with China.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Josh Rosenbluth@21:1/5 to El Castor on Thu Sep 16 12:25:59 2021
    On 9/16/2021 11:28 AM, El Castor wrote:
    On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 08:56:45 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/15/2021 11:07 PM, El Castor wrote:
    On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 20:08:17 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/15/2021 7:12 PM, El Castor wrote:

    {snip}

    Simply nothing that informs? Nothing other than a lack of planning,
    inept execution, and a betrayal of years of promises.

    What betrayals and broken promises?

    "Biden’s Betrayal of Afghans Will Live in Infamy
    Our abandonment of the Afghans who helped us, counted on us, and
    staked their lives on us is a final, gratuitous shame that we could
    have avoided."
    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/08/bidens-betrayal-of-afghans-will-live-in-infamy/619764/

    "A resettlement agency official aiding Afghan refugees is angered that
    the US left allies behind in Afghanistan.
    "We're frankly pretty angry that our government has not kept its
    promise to so many of those people," Matthew Soerens of World Relief
    told Insider.
    A State Department official estimated Wednesday that the US left
    behind "the majority" of special immigrant visa applicants in
    Afghanistan."
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/agency-official-whos-resettling-afghan-refugees-angry-that-us-left-allies-behind-our-government-has-not-kept-its-promise/ar-AAO1Up9?ocid=uxbndlbing

    "It’s evident that the expedited retreat of American forces from
    Afghanistan was not part of any credible military plan, which would
    have run a civilian-evacuation campaign before an orderly withdrawal
    of troops and the destruction of left-behind matériel and military
    bases. Biden insisted on his bungled exit for the political optics of
    announcing “mission accomplished” by the iconic date of Sept. 11. Few >>> foreign observers would disagree with former Vice President Mike
    Pence’s view that the botched withdrawal “is a foreign-policy
    humiliation unlike anything our country has endured since the Iran
    hostage crisis.” The American retreat must confirm to the Gulf Sunni
    states that relying on the U.S. security presence is a risky
    proposition, at best. "
    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2021/09/14/the_gulf_arab_states_and_bidens_afghanistan_betrayal_146396.html

    "Prematurely exiting Afghanistan has far-reaching implications, and
    will cause friends and foes alike to question America's foreign policy
    commitments. It is a major blow to U.S. credibility, capacity and
    geopolitical leverage."
    https://www.newsweek.com/cost-betrayal-afghanistan-opinion-1620604

    So, the betrayal wasn't leaving, it was leaving without getting out
    those who worked for us behind. Sorry, if that is the case, that is no
    indication of weakness in our Taiwan policy because we aren't leaving
    Taiwan in the first place.

    The Afghan betrayal went beyond broken promises to the Afghans who
    aided us -- it included many American citizens who we left behind, as
    well as members of the government we helped to establish, and the
    women and girls who were allowed to enjoy an education and freedom
    unknown in a fundamentalist Afghanistan. Those days have ended for
    them. And needless to say, our hasty poorly conceived departure must
    have other allies in the Middle East wondering if their reliance on
    the US is a mistake.

    We didn't promise anything to the government or the women. Are you
    arguing we should have stayed and our weakness in leaving is what should
    cause Taiwan concern?

    The problem, or perhaps virtue, in the case of Taiwan is Biden's unpredictability. How will he react to an invasion, or an obviously
    impending invasion? If Afghanistatan is any indication, he will be
    planless, weak and indecisive. From the Chinese perspective this must
    appear to be an opportunity too good to pass up. Taiwan is probably
    gone. Personally, my biggest concern is that Biden in an attempt to
    appear strong and decisive might inadvertently get us into a
    disastrous war with China.

    So, either Biden is weak and Taiwan falls or Biden is bat-shit crazy unpredictable and WWIII is on the horizon. How easy it is to bash Biden
    when in the event your initial argument (weakness) fails, you get to
    substitute an unsupported, wild-ass claim (unpredictable war monger when accused of weakness). That's a sure sign the argument is partisan trash.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From El Castor@21:1/5 to noway@nowhere.com on Thu Sep 16 13:51:03 2021
    On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 12:25:59 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/16/2021 11:28 AM, El Castor wrote:
    On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 08:56:45 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/15/2021 11:07 PM, El Castor wrote:
    On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 20:08:17 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/15/2021 7:12 PM, El Castor wrote:

    {snip}

    Simply nothing that informs? Nothing other than a lack of planning, >>>>>> inept execution, and a betrayal of years of promises.

    What betrayals and broken promises?

    "Biden’s Betrayal of Afghans Will Live in Infamy
    Our abandonment of the Afghans who helped us, counted on us, and
    staked their lives on us is a final, gratuitous shame that we could
    have avoided."
    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/08/bidens-betrayal-of-afghans-will-live-in-infamy/619764/

    "A resettlement agency official aiding Afghan refugees is angered that >>>> the US left allies behind in Afghanistan.
    "We're frankly pretty angry that our government has not kept its
    promise to so many of those people," Matthew Soerens of World Relief
    told Insider.
    A State Department official estimated Wednesday that the US left
    behind "the majority" of special immigrant visa applicants in
    Afghanistan."
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/agency-official-whos-resettling-afghan-refugees-angry-that-us-left-allies-behind-our-government-has-not-kept-its-promise/ar-AAO1Up9?ocid=uxbndlbing

    "It’s evident that the expedited retreat of American forces from
    Afghanistan was not part of any credible military plan, which would
    have run a civilian-evacuation campaign before an orderly withdrawal
    of troops and the destruction of left-behind matériel and military
    bases. Biden insisted on his bungled exit for the political optics of
    announcing “mission accomplished” by the iconic date of Sept. 11. Few
    foreign observers would disagree with former Vice President Mike
    Pence’s view that the botched withdrawal “is a foreign-policy
    humiliation unlike anything our country has endured since the Iran
    hostage crisis.” The American retreat must confirm to the Gulf Sunni
    states that relying on the U.S. security presence is a risky
    proposition, at best. "
    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2021/09/14/the_gulf_arab_states_and_bidens_afghanistan_betrayal_146396.html

    "Prematurely exiting Afghanistan has far-reaching implications, and
    will cause friends and foes alike to question America's foreign policy >>>> commitments. It is a major blow to U.S. credibility, capacity and
    geopolitical leverage."
    https://www.newsweek.com/cost-betrayal-afghanistan-opinion-1620604

    So, the betrayal wasn't leaving, it was leaving without getting out
    those who worked for us behind. Sorry, if that is the case, that is no
    indication of weakness in our Taiwan policy because we aren't leaving
    Taiwan in the first place.

    The Afghan betrayal went beyond broken promises to the Afghans who
    aided us -- it included many American citizens who we left behind, as
    well as members of the government we helped to establish, and the
    women and girls who were allowed to enjoy an education and freedom
    unknown in a fundamentalist Afghanistan. Those days have ended for
    them. And needless to say, our hasty poorly conceived departure must
    have other allies in the Middle East wondering if their reliance on
    the US is a mistake.

    We didn't promise anything to the government or the women.

    After 10 years of American support and education in Western values I
    believe the government and people of Afghanistan had a right to expect
    an orderly well planned withdrawal -- something more than just
    surrendering them to the blood thirsty hands of the Taliban.

    Are you
    arguing we should have stayed and our weakness in leaving is what should >cause Taiwan concern?

    I am arguing that our withdrawal should have been respectful of our
    values and the well being of those we left behind. Biden's
    disorganized escape showed no regard for the plight of those friends
    and helpers who we left to be tortured and killed by the Taliban. Of
    course the people of Taiwan have good reason to worry that they might
    well receive the same treatment from a United States they also once
    trusted.

    The problem, or perhaps virtue, in the case of Taiwan is Biden's
    unpredictability. How will he react to an invasion, or an obviously
    impending invasion? If Afghanistatan is any indication, he will be
    planless, weak and indecisive. From the Chinese perspective this must
    appear to be an opportunity too good to pass up. Taiwan is probably
    gone. Personally, my biggest concern is that Biden in an attempt to
    appear strong and decisive might inadvertently get us into a
    disastrous war with China.

    So, either Biden is weak and Taiwan falls or Biden is bat-shit crazy >unpredictable and WWIII is on the horizon. How easy it is to bash Biden
    when in the event your initial argument (weakness) fails, you get to >substitute an unsupported, wild-ass claim (unpredictable war monger when >accused of weakness). That's a sure sign the argument is partisan trash.

    And speaking of partisan trash, what is that smell in the air? (-8

    Did I ever tell you about my departure from the US Navy? I enlisted
    just prior to Vietnam, served 3 years at sea during the war, and then
    2 years shore duty in Spain. When my enlistment was up I returned to
    San Francisco where I read for the first time the truth of that
    dreadful war and it's atrocities. I remembered a story I had been told
    by the officer who relieved me as I was leaving Spain. A Marine told
    him about seeing North Vietnamese prisoners lined up and pushed out of helicopters to their deaths to get them to talk. I wrote the Secretary
    of the Navy and told him what I had heard. He wrote back and insisted
    this was just a sea story (tall tale). Then the Office of Naval
    Intelligence called me in and was clearly more interested in my
    security clearance than Vietnam atrocities. I wrote the Sec Nav again
    and resigned my reserve commission. https://www.quora.com/Is-it-true-that-Viet-Cong-prisoners-during-the-Vietnam-War-were-sometimes-thrown-out-of-airborne-helicopters

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Josh Rosenbluth@21:1/5 to El Castor on Thu Sep 16 14:39:57 2021
    On 9/16/2021 1:51 PM, El Castor wrote:
    On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 12:25:59 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    {snip}

    Are you
    arguing we should have stayed and our weakness in leaving is what should
    cause Taiwan concern?

    I am arguing that our withdrawal should have been respectful of our
    values and the well being of those we left behind. Biden's
    disorganized escape showed no regard for the plight of those friends
    and helpers who we left to be tortured and killed by the Taliban. Of
    course the people of Taiwan have good reason to worry that they might
    well receive the same treatment from a United States they also once
    trusted.

    If we had only had a "respectful" withdrawal (one that still left the
    Taliban in charge to wreck holy hell on its citizens, but at least got
    the tiny minority out who worked for us out before the devil arrived),
    then the Taiwanese would be breathing easier? I don't think so.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From El Castor@21:1/5 to noway@nowhere.com on Thu Sep 16 22:59:37 2021
    On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 14:39:57 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/16/2021 1:51 PM, El Castor wrote:
    On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 12:25:59 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    {snip}

    Are you
    arguing we should have stayed and our weakness in leaving is what should >>> cause Taiwan concern?

    I am arguing that our withdrawal should have been respectful of our
    values and the well being of those we left behind. Biden's
    disorganized escape showed no regard for the plight of those friends
    and helpers who we left to be tortured and killed by the Taliban. Of
    course the people of Taiwan have good reason to worry that they might
    well receive the same treatment from a United States they also once
    trusted.

    If we had only had a "respectful" withdrawal (one that still left the
    Taliban in charge to wreck holy hell on its citizens, but at least got
    the tiny minority out who worked for us out before the devil arrived),
    then the Taiwanese would be breathing easier? I don't think so.

    A 'tiny" minority? 50,000?
    "U.S. official: 'Majority' of Afghan allies who applied for special
    visas left behind in Afghanistan" https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/small-fraction-america-s-afghan-allies-made-it-out-afghanistan-n1278141

    "In May, roughly 20,000 Afghan allies were in the pipeline for a
    special immigrant visa, according to NBC News. When family members are included, the pool of Afghans in the SIV program was at least 70,000,
    according to refugee advocacy groups." https://www.businessinsider.com/state-department-afghanistan-special-immigrant-visa-applicants-left-allies-interpreters-2021-9

    Biden's Afghanistan departure was a hasty ill planned mess -- not
    something that would instill great confidence in Taiwan.

    IN ANY EVENT, DO YOU BELIEVE THE UNITED STATES WOULD, OR SHOULD, GO TO
    WAR WITH CHINA TO "DEFEND" TAIWAN?

    If you believe war is appropriate, please explain the legal or
    legislative basis of our war obligation.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From El Castor@21:1/5 to noway@nowhere.com on Fri Sep 17 09:54:33 2021
    On Fri, 17 Sep 2021 09:16:42 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/16/2021 10:59 PM, El Castor wrote:
    On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 14:39:57 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/16/2021 1:51 PM, El Castor wrote:
    On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 12:25:59 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    {snip}

    Are you
    arguing we should have stayed and our weakness in leaving is what should >>>>> cause Taiwan concern?

    I am arguing that our withdrawal should have been respectful of our
    values and the well being of those we left behind. Biden's
    disorganized escape showed no regard for the plight of those friends
    and helpers who we left to be tortured and killed by the Taliban. Of
    course the people of Taiwan have good reason to worry that they might
    well receive the same treatment from a United States they also once
    trusted.

    If we had only had a "respectful" withdrawal (one that still left the
    Taliban in charge to wreck holy hell on its citizens, but at least got
    the tiny minority out who worked for us out before the devil arrived),
    then the Taiwanese would be breathing easier? I don't think so.

    A 'tiny" minority? 50,000?

    Yes. 50,000 is just over 0.1% of the total population of just under 40 >million.

    Hmmm. That strange partisan odor is flavoring the air again.

    "U.S. official: 'Majority' of Afghan allies who applied for special
    visas left behind in Afghanistan"
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/small-fraction-america-s-afghan-allies-made-it-out-afghanistan-n1278141

    "In May, roughly 20,000 Afghan allies were in the pipeline for a
    special immigrant visa, according to NBC News. When family members are
    included, the pool of Afghans in the SIV program was at least 70,000,
    according to refugee advocacy groups."
    https://www.businessinsider.com/state-department-afghanistan-special-immigrant-visa-applicants-left-allies-interpreters-2021-9

    Biden's Afghanistan departure was a hasty ill planned mess -- not
    something that would instill great confidence in Taiwan.

    Why would the Taiwanese care when a well-planned withdrawal would still
    leave 99.9% of the people at risk? Any Afghanistan withdrawal (well
    planned or a mess) should scare them (or not) pretty much the same.

    IN ANY EVENT, DO YOU BELIEVE THE UNITED STATES WOULD, OR SHOULD, GO TO
    WAR WITH CHINA TO "DEFEND" TAIWAN?

    If you believe war is appropriate, please explain the legal or
    legislative basis of our war obligation.

    We should neither go to all-out war or abandon Taiwan. What the correct >middle action is I do not know. But, our policy of strategic ambiguity
    on the question strikes me as correct.

    Strategic ambiguity has worked in the past, but under the Biden
    administration it seems to be getting even more ambiguous. Joe says
    one thing and his handlers another. I guess that qualifies as
    ambiguous.

    "A Biden administration official said on Thursday that U.S. policy on
    Taiwan had not changed after President Joe Biden appeared to suggest
    the United States would defend the island if it were attacked, a
    deviation from a long-held U.S. position of “strategic ambiguity.”" https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/20/us-position-on-taiwan-unchanged-despite-biden-comment-official-says.html

    In any event sleepy Joe can say what he likes. Hong Kong has fallen
    and as China grows stronger, Taiwan will be next. The 20th Century was
    the century of the United States. It looks like the 21st may be the
    century of China.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Josh Rosenbluth@21:1/5 to El Castor on Fri Sep 17 09:16:42 2021
    On 9/16/2021 10:59 PM, El Castor wrote:
    On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 14:39:57 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/16/2021 1:51 PM, El Castor wrote:
    On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 12:25:59 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    {snip}

    Are you
    arguing we should have stayed and our weakness in leaving is what should >>>> cause Taiwan concern?

    I am arguing that our withdrawal should have been respectful of our
    values and the well being of those we left behind. Biden's
    disorganized escape showed no regard for the plight of those friends
    and helpers who we left to be tortured and killed by the Taliban. Of
    course the people of Taiwan have good reason to worry that they might
    well receive the same treatment from a United States they also once
    trusted.

    If we had only had a "respectful" withdrawal (one that still left the
    Taliban in charge to wreck holy hell on its citizens, but at least got
    the tiny minority out who worked for us out before the devil arrived),
    then the Taiwanese would be breathing easier? I don't think so.

    A 'tiny" minority? 50,000?

    Yes. 50,000 is just over 0.1% of the total population of just under 40
    million.

    "U.S. official: 'Majority' of Afghan allies who applied for special
    visas left behind in Afghanistan" https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/small-fraction-america-s-afghan-allies-made-it-out-afghanistan-n1278141

    "In May, roughly 20,000 Afghan allies were in the pipeline for a
    special immigrant visa, according to NBC News. When family members are included, the pool of Afghans in the SIV program was at least 70,000, according to refugee advocacy groups." https://www.businessinsider.com/state-department-afghanistan-special-immigrant-visa-applicants-left-allies-interpreters-2021-9

    Biden's Afghanistan departure was a hasty ill planned mess -- not
    something that would instill great confidence in Taiwan.

    Why would the Taiwanese care when a well-planned withdrawal would still
    leave 99.9% of the people at risk? Any Afghanistan withdrawal (well
    planned or a mess) should scare them (or not) pretty much the same.

    IN ANY EVENT, DO YOU BELIEVE THE UNITED STATES WOULD, OR SHOULD, GO TO
    WAR WITH CHINA TO "DEFEND" TAIWAN?

    If you believe war is appropriate, please explain the legal or
    legislative basis of our war obligation.

    We should neither go to all-out war or abandon Taiwan. What the correct
    middle action is I do not know. But, our policy of strategic ambiguity
    on the question strikes me as correct.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Josh Rosenbluth@21:1/5 to El Castor on Fri Sep 17 16:48:01 2021
    On 9/17/2021 9:54 AM, El Castor wrote:
    On Fri, 17 Sep 2021 09:16:42 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/16/2021 10:59 PM, El Castor wrote:
    On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 14:39:57 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/16/2021 1:51 PM, El Castor wrote:
    On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 12:25:59 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    {snip}

    Are you
    arguing we should have stayed and our weakness in leaving is what should >>>>>> cause Taiwan concern?

    I am arguing that our withdrawal should have been respectful of our
    values and the well being of those we left behind. Biden's
    disorganized escape showed no regard for the plight of those friends >>>>> and helpers who we left to be tortured and killed by the Taliban. Of >>>>> course the people of Taiwan have good reason to worry that they might >>>>> well receive the same treatment from a United States they also once
    trusted.

    If we had only had a "respectful" withdrawal (one that still left the
    Taliban in charge to wreck holy hell on its citizens, but at least got >>>> the tiny minority out who worked for us out before the devil arrived), >>>> then the Taiwanese would be breathing easier? I don't think so.

    A 'tiny" minority? 50,000?

    Yes. 50,000 is just over 0.1% of the total population of just under 40
    million.

    Hmmm. That strange partisan odor is flavoring the air again.

    My math is not partisan.

    "U.S. official: 'Majority' of Afghan allies who applied for special
    visas left behind in Afghanistan"
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/small-fraction-america-s-afghan-allies-made-it-out-afghanistan-n1278141

    "In May, roughly 20,000 Afghan allies were in the pipeline for a
    special immigrant visa, according to NBC News. When family members are
    included, the pool of Afghans in the SIV program was at least 70,000,
    according to refugee advocacy groups."
    https://www.businessinsider.com/state-department-afghanistan-special-immigrant-visa-applicants-left-allies-interpreters-2021-9

    Biden's Afghanistan departure was a hasty ill planned mess -- not
    something that would instill great confidence in Taiwan.

    Why would the Taiwanese care when a well-planned withdrawal would still
    leave 99.9% of the people at risk? Any Afghanistan withdrawal (well
    planned or a mess) should scare them (or not) pretty much the same.

    IN ANY EVENT, DO YOU BELIEVE THE UNITED STATES WOULD, OR SHOULD, GO TO
    WAR WITH CHINA TO "DEFEND" TAIWAN?

    If you believe war is appropriate, please explain the legal or
    legislative basis of our war obligation.

    We should neither go to all-out war or abandon Taiwan. What the correct
    middle action is I do not know. But, our policy of strategic ambiguity
    on the question strikes me as correct.

    Strategic ambiguity has worked in the past, but under the Biden administration it seems to be getting even more ambiguous. Joe says
    one thing and his handlers another. I guess that qualifies as
    ambiguous.

    "A Biden administration official said on Thursday that U.S. policy on
    Taiwan had not changed after President Joe Biden appeared to suggest
    the United States would defend the island if it were attacked, a
    deviation from a long-held U.S. position of “strategic ambiguity.”" https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/20/us-position-on-taiwan-unchanged-despite-biden-comment-official-says.html

    In any event sleepy Joe can say what he likes. Hong Kong has fallen
    and as China grows stronger, Taiwan will be next. The 20th Century was
    the century of the United States. It looks like the 21st may be the
    century of China.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From El Castor@21:1/5 to noway@nowhere.com on Fri Sep 17 22:39:16 2021
    On Fri, 17 Sep 2021 16:48:01 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/17/2021 9:54 AM, El Castor wrote:
    On Fri, 17 Sep 2021 09:16:42 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/16/2021 10:59 PM, El Castor wrote:
    On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 14:39:57 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    On 9/16/2021 1:51 PM, El Castor wrote:
    On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 12:25:59 -0700, Josh Rosenbluth
    <noway@nowhere.com> wrote:

    {snip}

    Are you
    arguing we should have stayed and our weakness in leaving is what should
    cause Taiwan concern?

    I am arguing that our withdrawal should have been respectful of our >>>>>> values and the well being of those we left behind. Biden's
    disorganized escape showed no regard for the plight of those friends >>>>>> and helpers who we left to be tortured and killed by the Taliban. Of >>>>>> course the people of Taiwan have good reason to worry that they might >>>>>> well receive the same treatment from a United States they also once >>>>>> trusted.

    If we had only had a "respectful" withdrawal (one that still left the >>>>> Taliban in charge to wreck holy hell on its citizens, but at least got >>>>> the tiny minority out who worked for us out before the devil arrived), >>>>> then the Taiwanese would be breathing easier? I don't think so.

    A 'tiny" minority? 50,000?

    Yes. 50,000 is just over 0.1% of the total population of just under 40
    million.

    Hmmm. That strange partisan odor is flavoring the air again.

    My math is not partisan.

    Yes, but your brain is.

    "U.S. official: 'Majority' of Afghan allies who applied for special
    visas left behind in Afghanistan"
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/small-fraction-america-s-afghan-allies-made-it-out-afghanistan-n1278141

    "In May, roughly 20,000 Afghan allies were in the pipeline for a
    special immigrant visa, according to NBC News. When family members are >>>> included, the pool of Afghans in the SIV program was at least 70,000,
    according to refugee advocacy groups."
    https://www.businessinsider.com/state-department-afghanistan-special-immigrant-visa-applicants-left-allies-interpreters-2021-9

    Biden's Afghanistan departure was a hasty ill planned mess -- not
    something that would instill great confidence in Taiwan.

    Why would the Taiwanese care when a well-planned withdrawal would still
    leave 99.9% of the people at risk? Any Afghanistan withdrawal (well
    planned or a mess) should scare them (or not) pretty much the same.

    IN ANY EVENT, DO YOU BELIEVE THE UNITED STATES WOULD, OR SHOULD, GO TO >>>> WAR WITH CHINA TO "DEFEND" TAIWAN?

    If you believe war is appropriate, please explain the legal or
    legislative basis of our war obligation.

    We should neither go to all-out war or abandon Taiwan. What the correct
    middle action is I do not know. But, our policy of strategic ambiguity
    on the question strikes me as correct.

    Strategic ambiguity has worked in the past, but under the Biden
    administration it seems to be getting even more ambiguous. Joe says
    one thing and his handlers another. I guess that qualifies as
    ambiguous.

    "A Biden administration official said on Thursday that U.S. policy on
    Taiwan had not changed after President Joe Biden appeared to suggest
    the United States would defend the island if it were attacked, a
    deviation from a long-held U.S. position of “strategic ambiguity.”"
    https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/20/us-position-on-taiwan-unchanged-despite-biden-comment-official-says.html

    In any event sleepy Joe can say what he likes. Hong Kong has fallen
    and as China grows stronger, Taiwan will be next. The 20th Century was
    the century of the United States. It looks like the 21st may be the
    century of China.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)