• "If Muhammad Won't Go To The Mountain Then The Mountain Will Come To Mu

    From David Amicus@21:1/5 to All on Mon Apr 18 23:34:06 2016
    Do Muslims find that phrase offensive? I was watching a tv show tonight where it was used. I was surprised. It doesn't right to me.

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  • From David Amicus@21:1/5 to All on Thu Apr 21 15:58:51 2016
    Thanks Yusuf!

    I wonder if there might be a connection to the Bible story?

    http://biblehub.com/matthew/17-20.htm

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  • From Yusuf B Gursey@21:1/5 to David Amicus on Thu Apr 21 07:09:43 2016
    On Tuesday, April 19, 2016 at 7:40:02 AM UTC+3, David Amicus wrote:
    Do Muslims find that phrase offensive? I was watching a tv show tonight =
    where it was used. I was surprised. It doesn't right to me.

    The origin is a Turkish phrase without reference to Muhammad,
    "Muhammad" seems to have been inserted by Francis Bacon
    or someone he had contact with:=20

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/if_the_mountain_won%27t_come_to_Muhammad

    Mahomet made the people believe that he would call a hill to him, and from = the top of it offer up his prayers, for the observers of his law. The peopl=
    e assembled; Mahomet called the hill to come to him, again and again; and w= hen the hill stood still, he was never a whit abashed, but said, If the hil=
    l will not come to Mahomet, Mahomet will go to the hill.


    The original phrase is

    "Dag^ sana gelmezse, sen dag^a gideceksin..." ("If the mountain won't come=
    to you, you must go to the mountain)."

    Alternatively:

    Dag^ yu"ru"mezse_abdal yu"ru"r

    If the mountain does not walk (or move)
    the fool (the word used is originally a Sufi
    title or a member of a nomadic tribe) walks
    (or moves).


    One can see how "Muhammad" was inserted given
    the Turkish origin. The version with Muhammad
    reflects the general Western prejudice of=20
    Muhammad or Muslims as stupid and superstitious.

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  • From Yusuf B Gursey@21:1/5 to David Amicus on Thu Apr 21 17:04:30 2016
    On Friday, April 22, 2016 at 12:00:03 AM UTC+3, David Amicus wrote:
    Thanks Yusuf!

    I wonder if there might be a connection to the Bible story?

    http://biblehub.com/matthew/17-20.htm

    Quite possibly. Possibly someone (a European) heard of the
    Turkish proverb (there was plenty of trade), this lead
    to its being tied with Muhammad and a demonstration of his
    lack of faith by reference to the NT.

    BTW allusion to the weight of a mustard seed (without reference
    to moving mountains) appears twice in the Qur'an: Al-Anbiya (The
    Prophets) 21:47 and Luqman 31:16

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