• Where is Russia's next wave of men coming from?

    From useapen@21:1/5 to All on Wed Nov 29 09:18:36 2023
    XPost: alt.current-events.russia, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.guns XPost: talk.politics.misc, alt.military

    There seems to be a recurring point made in the current discussion around
    the Russo-Ukrainian War. Ukraine will always struggle with manpower as a smaller, democratic country. And Russia will always thrive in the manpower fight because it is larger and run by an autocrat.

    So Ukraine and Russia are two battling animals, and Russia can bleed for
    longer than Ukraine can fight.

    But...what? Did we all forget that Russia announced a conscription of
    300,000 last year and saw hundreds of thousands of Russians flee the
    country? Indeed, over 1 million Russians entered Georgia in the nine
    months after the Russian invasion of Ukraine. So, let's interrogate the
    idea that Russia has an endless pool of manpower.

    But first, we should acknowledge that Ukraine also faces real manpower shortages.

    Ukraine's manpower struggles

    We should get this out of the way because, while the author unabashedly supports Ukraine, it would be quite dishonest to discuss Russia's manpower
    woes without admitting that Ukraine faces a lot of the same problems.

    Ukraine has the much smaller population of the two countries. Ukraine has
    just shy of 14 million men aged 15-64 years. Russia has over 45 million. Ukraine's pool is literally less than a third of the size.

    And Ukraine has faced problems with draft dodging. An estimated 20,000 fighting-age men fled by November of 2023. That's five brigades worth, an entire division, if Ukraine was into divisions.

    Meanwhile, it has already lost an estimated 200,000 casualties among its
    troops and over 26,000 civilian casualties.

    Ukraine, in theory, has millions more men that it can press into service.
    But in practical terms, its military has tripled in size since February
    2022 but probably couldn't double again without major strain.

    Russia's manpower struggles
    So, yes, Russia's population is nearly triple the size of Ukraine's. And
    it's taking losses at just 1.5 times the rate of Ukraine (an estimated
    300,000 Russian casualties to 200,000 Ukrainian ones). If Russia and
    Ukraine both poured their men's blood into a pit at the current rates,
    Ukraine would run out long before Russia.

    But Russia is fighting a war of choice and aggression very poorly. And its
    poor and disenfranchised masses understand that they're being used as
    fodder for Putin's vanity war. Russia's population is surprisingly
    diverse, with five minorities representing over 1 percent each of the population, and over 23 percent of Russians not claiming Russian
    ethnicity.

    But Russia is disproportionately calling up its ethnic minorities, and
    they've noticed. And, believe it or not, oppressed minorities would
    typically rather not die subjecting other ethnicities to oppression.

    Remember, when Russia called up 300,000 men for military service and an estimated more than 200,000 fled the country in a week?

    And AP just released phone calls of Russian soldiers who want to flee
    their units.

    Russia can barely keep up the bonuses needed to keep drawing volunteers
    into the military, and that's without paying many of the death bonuses. Because, yes, Russian families are supposed to get death gratuities, but
    Russia is reportedly hiding many deaths to prevent paying out.

    Meanwhile, the Russian economy continues to flash warning signs, the
    economy that's needed to provide those bonuses. As well as pay for the
    massive amounts of destroyed war material.

    A conscription further damages the economy, requires more money for
    training, money for enforcement, and then more money for death bonuses and funerals. Indeed, Putin is reportedly afraid to call another mass
    mobilization precisely because of the damage to the economy and popular sentiment.

    The Russian economy is in the toilet
    Most media credulously prints whatever economic numbers that Russia
    claims. But more skeptical economists have double-checked Russia's claims. First, the bulk of Russia's income, as always, comes from the sale of
    Urals Crude. But Urals Crude is trading at less than $62 a barrel as of
    the time of writing. And that's despite massive OPEC production cuts and
    Russia restricting exports. So Russia is collecting little per barrel
    while also selling fewer barrels.

    The exact numbers are hidden since so much Russian oil is smuggled on a
    "dark" tanker fleet, that Russia had to buy, but oil revenues are
    definitely down.

    Meanwhile, Russia claims that its economy has grown while admitting that
    large portions of it now exclusively produce war goods instead of consumer goods. But even those numbers are suspect, since researchers at the
    European Central Bank found that Russia claimed its factories were humming
    at full-strength even as air quality data and energy consumption showed
    quite clearly that Russian factories must have either gone entirely solar
    or else were sitting dormant.

    Economist Dr. Joeri Schasfoort held a YouTube live with one of the
    European Central Bank researchers on his channel Money & Macro. He said academics largely trusted Russia's numbers before the war, but its data
    since sanctions started are entirely suspect.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZMi9QZqy6M

    So, yes, Russia is the larger country with the larger population. But with
    its economy already strained, its men already fleeing conscription at
    nearly the pace that men are accepting it, and it taking heavier losses
    than Ukraine, it's not actually clear that it has some endless pool of soldiers.

    Instead, we should see Russia as an already wounded animal. We may not
    know how much blood it has left. But we also know it will pass out or die before it hits zero. Imagining that Russia can bleed forever is a weird,
    dark fantasy.

    https://news.yahoo.com/where-russias-next-wave-men-193803935.html

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Just Wondering@21:1/5 to useapen on Wed Nov 29 13:38:53 2023
    XPost: alt.current-events.russia, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.guns XPost: talk.politics.misc, alt.military

    On 11/29/2023 2:18 AM, useapen wrote:
    There seems to be a recurring point made in the current discussion around
    the Russo-Ukrainian War. Ukraine will always struggle with manpower as a smaller, democratic country. And Russia will always thrive in the manpower fight because it is larger and run by an autocrat.

    So Ukraine and Russia are two battling animals, and Russia can bleed for longer than Ukraine can fight.

    But...what? Did we all forget that Russia announced a conscription of
    300,000 last year and saw hundreds of thousands of Russians flee the
    country? Indeed, over 1 million Russians entered Georgia in the nine
    months after the Russian invasion of Ukraine. So, let's interrogate the
    idea that Russia has an endless pool of manpower.

    But first, we should acknowledge that Ukraine also faces real manpower shortages.

    Ukraine's manpower struggles

    We should get this out of the way because, while the author unabashedly supports Ukraine, it would be quite dishonest to discuss Russia's manpower woes without admitting that Ukraine faces a lot of the same problems.

    Ukraine has the much smaller population of the two countries. Ukraine has just shy of 14 million men aged 15-64 years. Russia has over 45 million. Ukraine's pool is literally less than a third of the size.

    And Ukraine has faced problems with draft dodging. An estimated 20,000 fighting-age men fled by November of 2023. That's five brigades worth, an entire division, if Ukraine was into divisions.

    Meanwhile, it has already lost an estimated 200,000 casualties among its troops and over 26,000 civilian casualties.

    Ukraine, in theory, has millions more men that it can press into service.
    But in practical terms, its military has tripled in size since February
    2022 but probably couldn't double again without major strain.

    Russia's manpower struggles
    So, yes, Russia's population is nearly triple the size of Ukraine's. And
    it's taking losses at just 1.5 times the rate of Ukraine (an estimated 300,000 Russian casualties to 200,000 Ukrainian ones). If Russia and
    Ukraine both poured their men's blood into a pit at the current rates, Ukraine would run out long before Russia.

    But Russia is fighting a war of choice and aggression very poorly. And its poor and disenfranchised masses understand that they're being used as
    fodder for Putin's vanity war. Russia's population is surprisingly
    diverse, with five minorities representing over 1 percent each of the population, and over 23 percent of Russians not claiming Russian
    ethnicity.

    But Russia is disproportionately calling up its ethnic minorities, and they've noticed. And, believe it or not, oppressed minorities would
    typically rather not die subjecting other ethnicities to oppression.

    Remember, when Russia called up 300,000 men for military service and an estimated more than 200,000 fled the country in a week?

    And AP just released phone calls of Russian soldiers who want to flee
    their units.

    Russia can barely keep up the bonuses needed to keep drawing volunteers
    into the military, and that's without paying many of the death bonuses. Because, yes, Russian families are supposed to get death gratuities, but Russia is reportedly hiding many deaths to prevent paying out.

    Meanwhile, the Russian economy continues to flash warning signs, the
    economy that's needed to provide those bonuses. As well as pay for the massive amounts of destroyed war material.

    A conscription further damages the economy, requires more money for
    training, money for enforcement, and then more money for death bonuses and funerals. Indeed, Putin is reportedly afraid to call another mass mobilization precisely because of the damage to the economy and popular sentiment.

    The Russian economy is in the toilet
    Most media credulously prints whatever economic numbers that Russia
    claims. But more skeptical economists have double-checked Russia's claims. First, the bulk of Russia's income, as always, comes from the sale of
    Urals Crude. But Urals Crude is trading at less than $62 a barrel as of
    the time of writing. And that's despite massive OPEC production cuts and Russia restricting exports. So Russia is collecting little per barrel
    while also selling fewer barrels.

    The exact numbers are hidden since so much Russian oil is smuggled on a "dark" tanker fleet, that Russia had to buy, but oil revenues are
    definitely down.

    Meanwhile, Russia claims that its economy has grown while admitting that large portions of it now exclusively produce war goods instead of consumer goods. But even those numbers are suspect, since researchers at the
    European Central Bank found that Russia claimed its factories were humming
    at full-strength even as air quality data and energy consumption showed
    quite clearly that Russian factories must have either gone entirely solar
    or else were sitting dormant.

    Economist Dr. Joeri Schasfoort held a YouTube live with one of the
    European Central Bank researchers on his channel Money & Macro. He said academics largely trusted Russia's numbers before the war, but its data
    since sanctions started are entirely suspect.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZMi9QZqy6M

    So, yes, Russia is the larger country with the larger population. But with its economy already strained, its men already fleeing conscription at
    nearly the pace that men are accepting it, and it taking heavier losses
    than Ukraine, it's not actually clear that it has some endless pool of soldiers.

    Instead, we should see Russia as an already wounded animal. We may not
    know how much blood it has left. But we also know it will pass out or die before it hits zero. Imagining that Russia can bleed forever is a weird,
    dark fantasy.

    https://news.yahoo.com/where-russias-next-wave-men-193803935.html

    It would be nice of when countries declared war, people would
    refuse to go.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gronk@21:1/5 to useapen on Thu Dec 7 22:51:05 2023
    XPost: alt.current-events.russia, alt.fan.rush-limbaugh, talk.politics.guns XPost: talk.politics.misc, alt.military

    useapen wrote:


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)