• The 5 Most Common Jobs in a Medieval City (+6 to 10)

    From a425couple@21:1/5 to All on Sun Nov 28 20:31:42 2021
    XPost: alt.economics

    from https://flipboard.com/@BettyLawMorgan/the-5-most-common-jobs-in-a-medieval-city---medievalists-net/a-LBlw7GMpSni6uT_9_ljc3A%3Aa%3A2457232568-57e0c7fd47%2Fmedievalists.net

    or
    https://www.medievalists.net/2021/11/most-common-jobs-medieval-city/

    The 5 Most Common Jobs in a Medieval City

    By Lucie Laumonier

    What were the most common jobs in a late medieval city? In this piece,
    we’ll look at the case of fifteenth-century Montpellier, a city located
    in the South of France.

    Established in the late tenth century, Montpellier had become, three
    hundred years later, one of the main urban centres of Southern France.
    Before the Black Death, more than 30,000 called the city home.
    Montpellier was famous for its university that taught medicine and the
    trade goods that came with access to the Mediterranean, a dozen
    kilometres away. Detailed information on its population comes from a
    series of tax records spanning c. 1380-1480 that yield the names of
    nearly 10,000 householders, and the occupation of approximately 6,500 of
    them. So, who were the most numerous urban workers?

    To answer this question, I’ve looked at tax records dated 1435-1446 in
    which a little under 2,200 households are listed. The profession of the head-householder is known in two-thirds of the cases. A handful of women
    who helmed their own household also declared a profession to the city’s authorities. Dozens and dozens of occupations existed at once in the
    city, a result of the great fragmentation of chains of production in the
    Middle Ages. The five most common jobs were farming, carpentry,
    butchery, shoemaking and Church-related work.


    A view of Montpellier from 1572, part of Civitates Orbis Terrarum by
    Georg Braun and Frans Hogenberg

    1 – Farming
    Peasants made up 25% of the workers whose occupation was known in
    1435-1446, and 16.5% of all the taxpayers. In Toulouse and Avignon, in
    the fifteenth century, peasants made up 17% of the testators with a
    known occupation. Unsurprisingly, peasants were more numerous in the
    suburbs than in the walled city. Most of the fields were located outside
    of the city’s walls, even if medieval urban centres did count a large
    number of gardens, orchards and small vegetable beds. Urban peasants,
    called “ploughmen” in the Montpellier fiscal sources tilled, sowed and harvested the fields. Others raised cattle, pigs and chickens. Some
    laboured in their orchards and vegetable beds.

    Although numerous, the Montpellier agriculturalists could not produce
    enough food to supply the entire city. Rather, grain, meat and other
    foodstuff had to be imported from the city’s backcountry and overseas commercial partners. Imports of grain were essential to sustain urban populations. At times of food shortages, such as during the great famine
    of the early fourteenth century, the death toll in urban centres was staggering. In Montpellier, the chronicle asserts that people resorted
    to eating grass to survive.

    If you want to learn more about urban peasants, check out my article on
    urban agriculture!

    2 – Carpentry
    Called “fustiers” in the local vernacular, the carpenters formed an ill-defined professional group. “Carpenters” could build houses, make furniture, or chop and sell firewood. The “fustiers” only made up 6% of
    the taxpayers whose occupation was known in 1435-46 (81 individuals,
    including a woman). But the art of “fusterie” was essential to medieval communities. The workers built housing and furniture and provided heat
    to all households. Carpenters were frequently hired by the city’s
    government to undertake construction work on public buildings.


    Carpenters in a 14th-century copy of Tacuina sanitatis
    In Montpellier, the carpenters tended to live close to the city’s
    ditches. The reason is that trees imported from the nearby woods were
    stored and drenched in the ditches before their processing. Cutting down
    the timber into workable pieces was undertaken by specialized workers,
    called “ressaires” in the local vernacular, a term that could be
    translated as “pitsawyers”. Few “ressaires” appear in fiscal documents, suggesting that the carpenters could have done the job themselves, or
    that pitsawyers identified themselves as carpenters.

    3 – Butchery
    Medieval people who were Christians refrained from eating meat during
    Lent and fast days (in total nearly 150 days a year). But still, they
    ate large quantities of meat the rest of the year. In the South of
    France, from the Atlantic to the Mediterranean, people ate on average 26 kilograms of meat per year or a ration of 120 grams on the days they
    were allowed to. In modern France, people eat on average 160 grams of
    meat daily–not far from the medieval rates.

    The Montpellier butchers made up 4% of the 1435-46 taxpayers whose
    occupation was known. During that period of time, some sixty butchers
    laboured at once in the city, for a population of fewer than 20,000 people–one butcher for 300 inhabitants, approximately. In Toulouse, in
    the early fourteenth century, the ratio was one butcher for 225 people.


    A medieval manuscript image of a man and a woman slaughtering a pig
    Butchers usually specialized in one specific type of animal: pork,
    mutton, or beef. Among the Montpellier butchers whose specialization is
    known, 55% sold mutton meat; 35% sold beef; and 10% sold pork. The
    animals’ offals were processed by workers known as “tripiers” who would prepare and cook the offals to make, for instance, pies or sausage.
    Poultry was sold by a different type of workers, called “poulterers.”
    Few appeared in local documents, suggesting that most people kept
    chickens in their backyards for eggs and white meat.

    4 – Shoemaking
    The Montpellier cobblers, who made and repaired shoes, were quite
    numerous, making up 4% of the workers paying taxes in 1435-46. They were organized in different guilds, based on the street in which they kept
    their shops. In 1360, nine cobblers’ guilds were attested in documents,
    all situated within the city’s walls. After the devastation caused by
    the Black Death and the subsequent plague epidemics, the number of
    cobblers’ guilds declined. In 1444, only five shoemakers’ guilds
    appeared in the Montpellier sources. Cobblers worked with leather, which
    was processed in the northern neighbourhoods of the city. Tannery was a
    highly polluting industry.


    Detail of Shoemakers from the Altarpiece of St. Mark by Arnau Bassa —
    Image by Ramon Manent/ Wikimedia Commons
    Shoemaking could be an even bigger employer in other medieval towns. In
    the Catalonian town of Manresa, near Barcelona, cobblers were the most
    numerous workers mentioned in fiscal records. They made up 15% of the
    local workforce, coming first before the local farmers. It is not
    surprising to know that Manresa was a centre for shoe production in
    Catalonia.

    5 – Church Work
    The category “cleric” encompasses deacons, chaplains and priests, monks
    and nuns, priors and prioresses, and even the local bishop, who
    possessed some estates in the city. Clerics made up a little under 4% of
    the taxpayers with a known profession. In England, the Poll Tax records
    of 1377 showed that 2% of the households were clerical. But demographer
    Josiah Russell and historian Michael Postan have postulated that the
    clerical population was probably twice as large, matching our estimates
    for Montpellier.


    Choir, from Book of Hours, Paris 1450 – c. 14 British Library MS Harley
    2971 f. 109v
    In the Mediterranean city, the clerical population was probably even
    larger than what fiscal sources suggest. But many clerics were exempted
    from personal taxation and did not appear in fiscal documents. For
    instance, Montpellier was the home of dozens and dozens of students who
    had travelled across France and Europe to attend its famous university
    to learn medicine or law. Students enrolled in medieval universities
    were considered clerics. But fiscal documents seldom recorded liberal
    arts, medicine and law students. If they had been inscribed in tax
    records, no doubt that the estimate of the Montpellier clerical
    population would have been higher.

    Support Medievalists on Patreon
    More medieval jobs
    Here are the sixth to tenth most common jobs in late medieval
    Montpellier, according to the 1435-46 tax records:

    6 – Tailors
    7 – Notaries
    8 – Barbers
    9 – Retailers
    10 – Stonemasons

    This article has looked at the most common jobs based on the sheer
    number of occurrences of occupational titles. But, due to the great fragmentation of chains of production in the Middle Ages, the
    distribution of occupational titles does not reflect the size or
    importance of a given industry. For instance, none of the top-five jobs includes workers of the textile industry, although textile production represented a major source of income for the people of Montpellier.
    Weavers, shearers, dyers, drapers, even tailors, cotton makers,
    embroiderers and needle makers were all part of the industry. In terms
    of industry size, food production and retail, textile work, construction
    work and international trades were the main employment sectors of the
    late medieval city.

    Lucie Laumonier is an Affiliate assistant professor at Concordia
    University. Click here to view her Academia.edu page or follow her on
    Instagram at The French Medievalist.

    Click here to read more from Lucie Laumonier

    Further Reading:
    Jeff Fynn-Paul, Family, Work, and Household in Late Medieval Iberia: A
    Social History of Manresa at the Time of the Black Death (Routledge, 2017)

    Valerie Garver (ed.), A Cultural History of Work in the Medieval Age, (Bloomsbury, 2019)

    Kathryn Reyerson, Women’s Networks in Medieval France. Gender and
    Community in Montpellier, 1300-1350 (Palgrave, 2016)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From SolomonW@21:1/5 to All on Mon Nov 29 15:45:49 2021
    XPost: alt.economics

    On Sun, 28 Nov 2021 20:31:42 -0800, a425couple wrote:

    from https://flipboard.com/@BettyLawMorgan/the-5-most-common-jobs-in-a-medieval-city---medievalists-net/a-LBlw7GMpSni6uT_9_ljc3A%3Aa%3A2457232568-57e0c7fd47%2Fmedievalists.net

    or
    https://www.medievalists.net/2021/11/most-common-jobs-medieval-city/

    The 5 Most Common Jobs in a Medieval City

    By Lucie Laumonier

    What were the most common jobs in a late medieval city? In this piece,
    well look at the case of fifteenth-century Montpellier, a city located
    in the South of France.

    Established in the late tenth century, Montpellier had become, three
    hundred years later, one of the main urban centres of Southern France.
    Before the Black Death, more than 30,000 called the city home.
    Montpellier was famous for its university that taught medicine and the
    trade goods that came with access to the Mediterranean, a dozen
    kilometres away. Detailed information on its population comes from a
    series of tax records spanning c. 1380-1480 that yield the names of
    nearly 10,000 householders, and the occupation of approximately 6,500 of them. So, who were the most numerous urban workers?

    To answer this question, Ive looked at tax records dated 1435-1446 in
    which a little under 2,200 households are listed. The profession of the head-householder is known in two-thirds of the cases. A handful of women
    who helmed their own household also declared a profession to the citys authorities. Dozens and dozens of occupations existed at once in the
    city, a result of the great fragmentation of chains of production in the Middle Ages. The five most common jobs were farming, carpentry,
    butchery, shoemaking and Church-related work.


    A view of Montpellier from 1572, part of Civitates Orbis Terrarum by
    Georg Braun and Frans Hogenberg

    1 V Farming
    Peasants made up 25% of the workers whose occupation was known in
    1435-1446, and 16.5% of all the taxpayers. In Toulouse and Avignon, in
    the fifteenth century, peasants made up 17% of the testators with a
    known occupation. Unsurprisingly, peasants were more numerous in the
    suburbs than in the walled city. Most of the fields were located outside
    of the citys walls, even if medieval urban centres did count a large
    number of gardens, orchards and small vegetable beds. Urban peasants,
    called ploughmen in the Montpellier fiscal sources tilled, sowed and harvested the fields. Others raised cattle, pigs and chickens. Some
    laboured in their orchards and vegetable beds.

    Although numerous, the Montpellier agriculturalists could not produce
    enough food to supply the entire city. Rather, grain, meat and other foodstuff had to be imported from the citys backcountry and overseas commercial partners. Imports of grain were essential to sustain urban populations. At times of food shortages, such as during the great famine
    of the early fourteenth century, the death toll in urban centres was staggering. In Montpellier, the chronicle asserts that people resorted
    to eating grass to survive.

    If you want to learn more about urban peasants, check out my article on
    urban agriculture!

    2 V Carpentry
    Called fustiers in the local vernacular, the carpenters formed an ill-defined professional group. Carpenters could build houses, make furniture, or chop and sell firewood. The fustiers only made up 6% of
    the taxpayers whose occupation was known in 1435-46 (81 individuals, including a woman). But the art of fusterie was essential to medieval communities. The workers built housing and furniture and provided heat
    to all households. Carpenters were frequently hired by the citys
    government to undertake construction work on public buildings.


    Carpenters in a 14th-century copy of Tacuina sanitatis
    In Montpellier, the carpenters tended to live close to the citys
    ditches. The reason is that trees imported from the nearby woods were
    stored and drenched in the ditches before their processing. Cutting down
    the timber into workable pieces was undertaken by specialized workers,
    called ressaires in the local vernacular, a term that could be
    translated as pitsawyers. Few ressaires appear in fiscal documents, suggesting that the carpenters could have done the job themselves, or
    that pitsawyers identified themselves as carpenters.

    3 V Butchery
    Medieval people who were Christians refrained from eating meat during
    Lent and fast days (in total nearly 150 days a year). But still, they
    ate large quantities of meat the rest of the year. In the South of
    France, from the Atlantic to the Mediterranean, people ate on average 26 kilograms of meat per year or a ration of 120 grams on the days they
    were allowed to. In modern France, people eat on average 160 grams of
    meat dailyVnot far from the medieval rates.

    The Montpellier butchers made up 4% of the 1435-46 taxpayers whose
    occupation was known. During that period of time, some sixty butchers laboured at once in the city, for a population of fewer than 20,000 peopleVone butcher for 300 inhabitants, approximately. In Toulouse, in
    the early fourteenth century, the ratio was one butcher for 225 people.


    A medieval manuscript image of a man and a woman slaughtering a pig
    Butchers usually specialized in one specific type of animal: pork,
    mutton, or beef. Among the Montpellier butchers whose specialization is known, 55% sold mutton meat; 35% sold beef; and 10% sold pork. The
    animals offals were processed by workers known as tripiers who would prepare and cook the offals to make, for instance, pies or sausage.
    Poultry was sold by a different type of workers, called poulterers.
    Few appeared in local documents, suggesting that most people kept
    chickens in their backyards for eggs and white meat.

    4 V Shoemaking
    The Montpellier cobblers, who made and repaired shoes, were quite
    numerous, making up 4% of the workers paying taxes in 1435-46. They were organized in different guilds, based on the street in which they kept
    their shops. In 1360, nine cobblers guilds were attested in documents,
    all situated within the citys walls. After the devastation caused by
    the Black Death and the subsequent plague epidemics, the number of
    cobblers guilds declined. In 1444, only five shoemakers guilds
    appeared in the Montpellier sources. Cobblers worked with leather, which
    was processed in the northern neighbourhoods of the city. Tannery was a highly polluting industry.


    Detail of Shoemakers from the Altarpiece of St. Mark by Arnau Bassa X
    Image by Ramon Manent/ Wikimedia Commons
    Shoemaking could be an even bigger employer in other medieval towns. In
    the Catalonian town of Manresa, near Barcelona, cobblers were the most numerous workers mentioned in fiscal records. They made up 15% of the
    local workforce, coming first before the local farmers. It is not
    surprising to know that Manresa was a centre for shoe production in Catalonia.

    5 V Church Work
    The category cleric encompasses deacons, chaplains and priests, monks
    and nuns, priors and prioresses, and even the local bishop, who
    possessed some estates in the city. Clerics made up a little under 4% of
    the taxpayers with a known profession. In England, the Poll Tax records
    of 1377 showed that 2% of the households were clerical. But demographer Josiah Russell and historian Michael Postan have postulated that the
    clerical population was probably twice as large, matching our estimates
    for Montpellier.


    Choir, from Book of Hours, Paris 1450 V c. 14 British Library MS Harley
    2971 f. 109v
    In the Mediterranean city, the clerical population was probably even
    larger than what fiscal sources suggest. But many clerics were exempted
    from personal taxation and did not appear in fiscal documents. For
    instance, Montpellier was the home of dozens and dozens of students who
    had travelled across France and Europe to attend its famous university
    to learn medicine or law. Students enrolled in medieval universities
    were considered clerics. But fiscal documents seldom recorded liberal
    arts, medicine and law students. If they had been inscribed in tax
    records, no doubt that the estimate of the Montpellier clerical
    population would have been higher.

    Support Medievalists on Patreon
    More medieval jobs
    Here are the sixth to tenth most common jobs in late medieval
    Montpellier, according to the 1435-46 tax records:

    6 V Tailors
    7 V Notaries
    8 V Barbers
    9 V Retailers
    10 V Stonemasons

    This article has looked at the most common jobs based on the sheer
    number of occurrences of occupational titles. But, due to the great fragmentation of chains of production in the Middle Ages, the
    distribution of occupational titles does not reflect the size or
    importance of a given industry. For instance, none of the top-five jobs includes workers of the textile industry, although textile production represented a major source of income for the people of Montpellier.
    Weavers, shearers, dyers, drapers, even tailors, cotton makers,
    embroiderers and needle makers were all part of the industry. In terms
    of industry size, food production and retail, textile work, construction
    work and international trades were the main employment sectors of the
    late medieval city.

    Lucie Laumonier is an Affiliate assistant professor at Concordia
    University. Click here to view her Academia.edu page or follow her on Instagram at The French Medievalist.

    Click here to read more from Lucie Laumonier

    Further Reading:
    Jeff Fynn-Paul, Family, Work, and Household in Late Medieval Iberia: A
    Social History of Manresa at the Time of the Black Death (Routledge, 2017)

    Valerie Garver (ed.), A Cultural History of Work in the Medieval Age, (Bloomsbury, 2019)

    Kathryn Reyerson, Womens Networks in Medieval France. Gender and
    Community in Montpellier, 1300-1350 (Palgrave, 2016)

    Interesting, it does not seem to match what I thought it would.

    Most people in medieval cities were not taxpayers to the city. Here we have
    a city of 30,000 and an analysis of 6,500 people. So what we have here is
    the local elite.



    The next point is *women* jobs are not shown, e.g. dressmakers, women hairdressers, housekeepers, etc.



    Finally, I find barbers strange. Surely only the rich would use them
    unless they have other duties like surgeons.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From a425couple@21:1/5 to SolomonW on Mon Nov 29 11:23:44 2021
    XPost: alt.economics

    On 11/28/2021 8:45 PM, SolomonW wrote:
    On Sun, 28 Nov 2021 20:31:42 -0800, a425couple wrote:
    ----
    or
    https://www.medievalists.net/2021/11/most-common-jobs-medieval-city/

    The 5 Most Common Jobs in a Medieval City

    By Lucie Laumonier
    ---
    To answer this question, I’ve looked at tax records dated 1435-1446 in
    which a little under 2,200 households are listed. ---

    A view of Montpellier from 1572, part of Civitates Orbis Terrarum by
    Georg Braun and Frans Hogenberg

    1 – Farming ---

    2 – Carpentry ---
    (fuel and construction and furniture)

    3 – Butchery
    France, from the Atlantic to the Mediterranean, people ate on average 26
    kilograms of meat per year or a ration of 120 grams on the days they
    were allowed to.

    Interesting, or near what we now consider a healthy
    4 oz serving.


    A medieval manuscript image of a man and a woman slaughtering a pig
    Butchers usually specialized in one specific type of animal: pork,
    mutton, or beef. Among the Montpellier butchers whose specialization is
    known, 55% sold mutton meat; 35% sold beef; and 10% sold pork. ---
    Poultry was sold by a different type of workers, called “poulterers.”
    Few appeared in local documents, suggesting that most people kept
    chickens in their backyards for eggs and white meat.

    4 – Shoemaking ---

    5 – Church Work

    6 – Tailors
    7 – Notaries
    8 – Barbers
    9 – Retailers
    10 – Stonemasons

    ----

    Interesting, it does not seem to match what I thought it would.

    Agreed.
    One town only, not total picture.
    I would think, that the majority of farmers,
    and 'ranchers' lived outside Montpellier.

    And their is no mention of mining.
    Coal was commonly used for heating in some cities.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_coal_mining

    no mention of metal worker,

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_metallurgy

    no mention of merchant or trader.

    or boatmen to use the River Lez
    for transport or fishing.


    Most people in medieval cities were not taxpayers to the city. Here we have
    a city of 30,000 and an analysis of 6,500 people. So what we have here is
    the local elite.

    The next point is *women* jobs are not shown, e.g. dressmakers, women hairdressers, housekeepers, etc.

    Finally, I find barbers strange. Surely only the rich would use them
    unless they have other duties like surgeons.


    I agree with your above.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Peter Jason@21:1/5 to a425couple@hotmail.com on Tue Nov 30 07:17:47 2021
    XPost: alt.economics

    On Mon, 29 Nov 2021 11:23:44 -0800, a425couple
    <a425couple@hotmail.com> wrote:

    On 11/28/2021 8:45 PM, SolomonW wrote:
    On Sun, 28 Nov 2021 20:31:42 -0800, a425couple wrote:
    ----
    or
    https://www.medievalists.net/2021/11/most-common-jobs-medieval-city/

    The 5 Most Common Jobs in a Medieval City

    By Lucie Laumonier
    ---
    To answer this question, Ive looked at tax records dated 1435-1446 in
    which a little under 2,200 households are listed. ---

    A view of Montpellier from 1572, part of Civitates Orbis Terrarum by
    Georg Braun and Frans Hogenberg

    1 Farming ---

    2 Carpentry ---
    (fuel and construction and furniture)

    3 Butchery
    France, from the Atlantic to the Mediterranean, people ate on average 26 >>> kilograms of meat per year or a ration of 120 grams on the days they
    were allowed to.

    Interesting, or near what we now consider a healthy
    4 oz serving.


    A medieval manuscript image of a man and a woman slaughtering a pig
    Butchers usually specialized in one specific type of animal: pork,
    mutton, or beef. Among the Montpellier butchers whose specialization is
    known, 55% sold mutton meat; 35% sold beef; and 10% sold pork. ---
    Poultry was sold by a different type of workers, called poulterers.
    Few appeared in local documents, suggesting that most people kept
    chickens in their backyards for eggs and white meat.

    4 Shoemaking ---

    5 Church Work

    6 Tailors
    7 Notaries
    8 Barbers
    9 Retailers
    10 Stonemasons

    ----

    Interesting, it does not seem to match what I thought it would.

    Agreed.
    One town only, not total picture.
    I would think, that the majority of farmers,
    and 'ranchers' lived outside Montpellier.

    And their is no mention of mining.
    Coal was commonly used for heating in some cities.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_coal_mining

    no mention of metal worker,

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_metallurgy

    no mention of merchant or trader.

    or boatmen to use the River Lez
    for transport or fishing.


    Most people in medieval cities were not taxpayers to the city. Here we have >> a city of 30,000 and an analysis of 6,500 people. So what we have here is
    the local elite.

    The next point is *women* jobs are not shown, e.g. dressmakers, women
    hairdressers, housekeepers, etc.

    Finally, I find barbers strange. Surely only the rich would use them
    unless they have other duties like surgeons.


    I agree with your above.

    Also bong cleaning. Sewage pits had to be dug out occasionally and
    the contents carted away.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From a425couple@21:1/5 to Peter Jason on Thu Dec 2 09:02:20 2021
    XPost: alt.economics

    On 11/29/2021 12:17 PM, Peter Jason wrote:
    On Mon, 29 Nov 2021 11:23:44 -0800, a425couple
    <a425couple@hotmail.com> wrote:

    On 11/28/2021 8:45 PM, SolomonW wrote:
    On Sun, 28 Nov 2021 20:31:42 -0800, a425couple wrote:
    ----
    or
    https://www.medievalists.net/2021/11/most-common-jobs-medieval-city/

    The 5 Most Common Jobs in a Medieval City

    By Lucie Laumonier
    ---
    To answer this question, I’ve looked at tax records dated 1435-1446 in >>>> which a little under 2,200 households are listed. ---

    A view of Montpellier from 1572, part of Civitates Orbis Terrarum by
    Georg Braun and Frans Hogenberg

    1 – Farming ---

    2 – Carpentry ---
    (fuel and construction and furniture)

    3 – Butchery
    France, from the Atlantic to the Mediterranean, people ate on average 26 >>>> kilograms of meat per year or a ration of 120 grams on the days they
    were allowed to.

    Interesting, or near what we now consider a healthy
    4 oz serving.


    A medieval manuscript image of a man and a woman slaughtering a pig
    Butchers usually specialized in one specific type of animal: pork,
    mutton, or beef. Among the Montpellier butchers whose specialization is >>>> known, 55% sold mutton meat; 35% sold beef; and 10% sold pork. ---
    Poultry was sold by a different type of workers, called “poulterers.” >>>> Few appeared in local documents, suggesting that most people kept
    chickens in their backyards for eggs and white meat.

    4 – Shoemaking ---

    5 – Church Work

    6 – Tailors
    7 – Notaries
    8 – Barbers
    9 – Retailers
    10 – Stonemasons

    ----

    Interesting, it does not seem to match what I thought it would.

    Agreed.
    One town only, not total picture.
    I would think, that the majority of farmers,
    and 'ranchers' lived outside Montpellier.

    And their is no mention of mining.
    Coal was commonly used for heating in some cities.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_coal_mining

    no mention of metal worker,

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_metallurgy

    no mention of merchant or trader.

    or boatmen to use the River Lez
    for transport or fishing.


    Most people in medieval cities were not taxpayers to the city. Here we have >>> a city of 30,000 and an analysis of 6,500 people. So what we have here is >>> the local elite.

    The next point is *women* jobs are not shown, e.g. dressmakers, women
    hairdressers, housekeepers, etc.

    Finally, I find barbers strange. Surely only the rich would use them
    unless they have other duties like surgeons.


    I agree with your above.

    Also bong cleaning. Sewage pits had to be dug out occasionally and
    the contents carted away.

    Certainly a needed job.
    But perhaps regularly done by workers from outside
    the city walls of Montpellier.
    They have to cart the waste out, so likely they lived
    outside the walls.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From a425couple@21:1/5 to All on Thu Dec 2 08:59:51 2021
    XPost: alt.economics

    On 11/29/2021 11:23 AM, a425couple wrote:
    On 11/28/2021 8:45 PM, SolomonW wrote:
    On Sun, 28 Nov 2021 20:31:42 -0800, a425couple wrote:
    ----
    or
    https://www.medievalists.net/2021/11/most-common-jobs-medieval-city/

    The 5 Most Common Jobs in a Medieval City

    By Lucie Laumonier
    ---
    To answer this question, I’ve looked at tax records dated 1435-1446 in >>> which a little under 2,200 households are listed. ---

    A view of Montpellier from 1572, part of Civitates Orbis Terrarum by
    Georg Braun and Frans Hogenberg

    1 – Farming ---
    2 – Carpentry ---
    (fuel and construction and furniture)
    3 – Butchery
    -------

    4 – Shoemaking ---
    5 – Church Work

    6 – Tailors
    7 – Notaries
    8 – Barbers
    9 – Retailers
    10 – Stonemasons


    Upon further thought & misc. reading, I'm really
    surprised at the absence of 2 trades.

    11 - Bakery - are they thinking everybody baked
    their own bread at their homes?
    12 - Brewers - Seems very unlikely everybody made their
    own brew / beer, or that someone hauled enough
    from outside into the town.
    - From Gies (granted this was thirteenth century England,
    but still valid) "Every village not only had it's brewers,
    but had them all up and down the street.



    no mention of metal worker, -----

    no mention of merchant or trader. ----

    or boatmen to use the River Lez
    for transport or fishing.



    The next point is *women* jobs are not shown, e.g. dressmakers, women
    hairdressers, housekeepers, etc.

    Finally, I find barbers strange. Surely only the rich would use them
    unless they have other duties like surgeons.

    I agree with your above.


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From a425couple@21:1/5 to All on Thu Dec 2 10:40:30 2021
    XPost: alt.economics

    On 12/2/2021 8:59 AM, a425couple wrote:
    On 11/29/2021 11:23 AM, a425couple wrote:
    On 11/28/2021 8:45 PM, SolomonW wrote:
    On Sun, 28 Nov 2021 20:31:42 -0800, a425couple wrote:
    ----
    or
    https://www.medievalists.net/2021/11/most-common-jobs-medieval-city/

    The 5 Most Common Jobs in a Medieval City

    By Lucie Laumonier
    ---
    To answer this question, I’ve looked at tax records dated 1435-1446 in >>>> which a little under 2,200 households are listed. ---

    A view of Montpellier from 1572, part of Civitates Orbis Terrarum by
    Georg Braun and Frans Hogenberg

    1 – Farming ---
    2 – Carpentry ---
             (fuel and construction and furniture)
    3 – Butchery
    -------

    4 – Shoemaking ---
    5 – Church Work

    6 – Tailors
    7 – Notaries
    8 – Barbers
    9 – Retailers
    10 – Stonemasons


    Upon further thought & misc. reading, I'm really
    surprised at the absence of 2 trades.

    11 - Bakery - are they thinking everybody baked
      their own bread at their homes?
    12 - Brewers - Seems very unlikely everybody made their
       own brew / beer, or that someone hauled enough
       from outside into the town.
       - From Gies (granted this was thirteenth century England,
       but still valid) "Every village not only had it's brewers,
       but had them all up and down the street.

    "Ale was as necessary to life in an English medieval village as bread"

    Here is another way to read, about that:

    Tales of the Middle Ages - Inns and Taverns - Gode Cookery http://www.godecookery.com › mtales › mtales13
    One village craft was so widely practiced that it hardly belonged to
    craftsmen. Every village not only had its brewers, but had them all up
    and down the street.

    and clicking on that http, I get to read:

    Gode Cookery Presents
    Tales of the Middle Ages
    True stories, fables and anecdotes from the Middle Ages

    Inns and Taverns
    Inns appeared in England in the twelfth and thirteenth centuries, and
    were apparently fairly common, especially in towns, by the fifteenth
    century. The earliest buildings still standing today, such as New Inn, Gloucester, or King's Head, Aylesbury, date from this time. While inns
    provided lodgings for travelers, taverns were drinking houses seeking to
    cater for the more prosperous levels of society. The leading taverners
    in larger towns were themselves vintners or acted as agents for
    vintners. The Vintner's Company of London, for instance, secured an
    essential monopoly of the retail trade in the city in 1364. A tavern of
    the later Medieval period might be imagined as a fairly substantial
    building of several rooms and a generous cellar. Taverns had signs to
    advertise their presence to potential customers, and branches and leaves
    would be hung over the door to give notice that wine could be purchased.
    Some taverns sold wine as their only beverage, and a customer could also purchase food brought in from a convenient cook-shop. Taverns seldom
    offered lodgings or very elaborate feasting, such as would be expected
    at inns. Pastimes like gambling, singing, and seeking prostitutes were a
    more common part of the tavern scene.

    Excerpt from: Pleasures and Pastimes in Medieval England by Compton
    Reeves. New York: Oxford University Press, 1998.


    The favorite adult recreation of the villagers was undoubtedly drinking.
    Both men and women gathered in the "tavern," usually meaning the house
    of a neighbor who had recently brewed a batch of ale, cheap at the
    established price of three gallons for a penny. There they passed the
    evening like modern villagers visiting the local pub. Accidents,
    quarrels, and acts of violence sometimes followed a session of drinking,
    in the thirteenth century as well as subsequent ones. Some misadventures
    may be deduced from the terse manorial court records. The rolls of the
    royal coroners, reporting fatal accidents, spell out many in graphic
    detail: In 1276 in Elstow, Osbert le Wuayl, son of William Cristmasse,
    coming home at about midnight "Drunk and disgustingly over-fed," after
    an evening in Bedford, fell and struck his head fatally on a stone
    "breaking the whole of his head." One man stumbled off his horse riding
    home from the tavern; another fell into a well in the marketplace and
    drowned; a third, relieving himself in a pond, fell in; still another,
    carrying a pot of ale down the village street, was bitten by a dog,
    tripped while picking up a stone to throw, and struck his head against a
    wall; a child slipped from her drunken mother's lap into a pan of hot
    milk on the hearth.

    One village craft was so widely practiced that it hardly belonged to
    craftsmen. Every village not only had its brewers, but had them all up
    and down the street. Many if not most of them were women. Ale was as
    necessary to life in an English medieval village as bread, but where flour-grinding and bread-baking were strictly guarded seigneurial
    monopolies, brewing was everywhere freely permitted and freely
    practiced. How the lords came to overlook this active branch of industry
    is a mystery (though they found a way to profit from it by fining the
    brewers for weak ale or faulty measure). Not only barley (etymologically related to beer) but oats and wheat were used, along with malt, as
    principal ingredients. The procedure was to make a batch of ale, display
    a sign, and turn one's house into a temporary tavern. Some equipment was needed, principally a large cauldron, but this did not prevent poor
    women from brewing. All twenty-three persons indicted by Elton village
    ale tasters in 1279 were women. Seven were pardoned because they were poor.

    Excerpts from: Life in a Medieval Village by Frances & Joseph Gies. New
    York: HarperCollins Publishers, 1990.

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  • From SolomonW@21:1/5 to All on Sun Dec 5 12:02:41 2021
    XPost: alt.economics

    On Thu, 2 Dec 2021 08:59:51 -0800, a425couple wrote:

    Upon further thought & misc. reading, I'm really
    surprised at the absence of 2 trades.

    11 - Bakery - are they thinking everybody baked
    their own bread at their homes?
    12 - Brewers - Seems very unlikely everybody made their
    own brew / beer, or that someone hauled enough
    from outside into the town.
    - From Gies (granted this was thirteenth century England,
    but still valid) "Every village not only had it's brewers,
    but had them all up and down the street.


    We would call the baker and brewer would not be taxpayers but employees of
    the appropriate retail business.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From i 4 !RFAN@21:1/5 to SolomonW on Wed Jan 26 07:58:18 2022
    On Sunday, December 5, 2021 at 6:32:39 AM UTC+5:30, SolomonW wrote:
    On Thu, 2 Dec 2021 08:59:51 -0800, a425couple wrote:

    Upon further thought & misc. reading, I'm really
    surprised at the absence of 2 trades.

    11 - Bakery - are they thinking everybody baked
    their own bread at their homes?
    12 - Brewers - Seems very unlikely everybody made their
    own brew / beer, or that someone hauled enough
    from outside into the town.
    - From Gies (granted this was thirteenth century England,
    but still valid) "Every village not only had it's brewers,
    but had them all up and down the street.
    We would call the baker and brewer would not be taxpayers but employees of the appropriate retail business.

    One village craft was so widely practiced that it hardly belonged to
    craftsmen. Every village not only had its brewers, but had them all up
    and down the street. Many if not most of them were women. Ale was as
    necessary to life in an English medieval village as bread, but where flour-grinding and bread-baking were strictly guarded seigneurial
    monopolies, brewing was everywhere freely permitted and freely
    practiced. How the lords came to overlook this active branch of industry
    is a mystery (though they found a way to profit from it by fining the
    brewers for weak ale or faulty measure). Not only barley (etymologically related to beer) but oats and wheat were used, along with malt, as
    principal ingredients. The procedure was to make a batch of ale, display
    a sign, and turn one's house into a temporary tavern. Some equipment was needed, principally a large cauldron, but this did not prevent poor
    women from brewing. All twenty-three persons indicted by Elton village
    ale tasters in 1279 were women. Seven were pardoned because they were poor.
    <a href="https://www.irfani-islam.in/2022/01/Hazrat-Tajuddin-Baba-Aulia-Shayari-In-Hindi.html">Farming</a>
    <a href="https://www.irfani-islam.in/2022/01/Tajuddin-Baba-Birthday-Status-In-Hindi.html">Carpentry</a>
    <a href="https://namazbooks.blogspot.com/2022/01/tajuddin-baba-history-in-hindi.html">Butchery</a>
    <a href="https://iislamreligion.blogspot.com/2022/01/hazrat-tajuddin-baba-history.html">Shoemaking</a>
    <a href="https://irfaniknowledge.blogspot.com/2022/01/tajuddin-baba-history-story-in-hindi.html">Church Work</a>

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