• OT - Robert Leckie and democracy

    From a425couple@21:1/5 to All on Mon Nov 1 15:09:24 2021
    Yes, it is Off Topic, but I think it is related
    to our frequent discussion on the great divide.

    I like Robert Leckie.
    He was a Marine who then wrote 40 books.
    As he wrote in 1998,

    Why, then, were five Presidents unable to contain
    Communism in Indo-China?
    Probably because of their naïve but mistaken belief that
    democracy can flourish in any soil. In truth, democracy
    -free speech society with truly representative government -
    is a rare bloom, which has seldom blossomed outside Europe
    or the English-speaking countries of the world. To have
    attempted to graft it onto South Vietnam's population of
    peasants, ignoring their psychology, their traditions, their
    rigidly structured society, their indifference to the Western gods
    of Ballot Box and Freedom and their attachment to a charismatic
    leader, be he emperor, king or commissar, was the original and
    major mistake of the war.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Surreyman@21:1/5 to All on Tue Nov 2 01:01:49 2021
    On Monday, November 1, 2021 at 10:09:24 PM UTC, a425couple wrote:
    Yes, it is Off Topic, but I think it is related
    to our frequent discussion on the great divide.

    I like Robert Leckie.
    He was a Marine who then wrote 40 books.
    As he wrote in 1998,

    Why, then, were five Presidents unable to contain
    Communism in Indo-China?
    Probably because of their naïve but mistaken belief that
    democracy can flourish in any soil. In truth, democracy
    -free speech society with truly representative government -
    is a rare bloom, which has seldom blossomed outside Europe
    or the English-speaking countries of the world. To have
    attempted to graft it onto South Vietnam's population of
    peasants, ignoring their psychology, their traditions, their
    rigidly structured society, their indifference to the Western gods
    of Ballot Box and Freedom and their attachment to a charismatic
    leader, be he emperor, king or commissar, was the original and
    major mistake of the war.

    As was the unbelievable "Arab Spring".
    Destined for disaster and so obvious to anyone who knew NA/ME.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From a425couple@21:1/5 to Surreyman on Tue Nov 2 15:50:59 2021
    On 11/2/2021 1:01 AM, Surreyman wrote:
    On Monday, November 1, 2021 at 10:09:24 PM UTC, a425couple wrote:
    Yes, it is Off Topic, but I think it is related
    to our frequent discussion on the great divide.

    I like Robert Leckie.
    He was a Marine who then wrote 40 books.
    As he wrote in 1998,

    Why, then, were five Presidents unable to contain
    Communism in Indo-China?
    Probably because of their naïve but mistaken belief that
    democracy can flourish in any soil. In truth, democracy
    -free speech society with truly representative government -
    is a rare bloom, which has seldom blossomed outside Europe
    or the English-speaking countries of the world. To have
    attempted to graft it onto South Vietnam's population of
    peasants, ignoring their psychology, their traditions, their
    rigidly structured society, their indifference to the Western gods
    of Ballot Box and Freedom and their attachment to a charismatic
    leader, be he emperor, king or commissar, was the original and
    major mistake of the war.

    As was the unbelievable "Arab Spring".
    Destined for disaster and so obvious to anyone

    Yes, indeed.
    We keep thinking times have changed,
    or new devices like cell phone & computers,
    have changed what dictators or dominators can do.

    Just walk in like a HMFIC badass, and do what is
    best for your own country, I guess.

    Maybe a re-read would be worthwhile: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy#Middle_Ages


    who knew NA/ME.

    What do you mean NA/ME ?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Eric Stevens@21:1/5 to All on Wed Nov 3 16:04:15 2021
    On Mon, 1 Nov 2021 15:09:24 -0700, a425couple <a425couple@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    Yes, it is Off Topic, but I think it is related
    to our frequent discussion on the great divide.

    I like Robert Leckie.
    He was a Marine who then wrote 40 books.
    As he wrote in 1998,

    Why, then, were five Presidents unable to contain
    Communism in Indo-China?
    Probably because of their naïve but mistaken belief that
    democracy can flourish in any soil. In truth, democracy
    -free speech society with truly representative government -
    is a rare bloom, which has seldom blossomed outside Europe
    or the English-speaking countries of the world. To have
    attempted to graft it onto South Vietnam's population of
    peasants, ignoring their psychology, their traditions, their
    rigidly structured society, their indifference to the Western gods
    of Ballot Box and Freedom and their attachment to a charismatic
    leader, be he emperor, king or commissar, was the original and
    major mistake of the war.

    Yes, Lord Louis Mountbatten got it right the first time although he
    was overruled by the brothers Dulles. He wanted to set up Vietnam
    under Ho Chi Minh from the beginning.
    --

    Regards,

    Eric Stevens

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Surreyman@21:1/5 to All on Wed Nov 3 01:13:25 2021
    On Tuesday, November 2, 2021 at 10:51:00 PM UTC, a425couple wrote:
    On 11/2/2021 1:01 AM, Surreyman wrote:
    On Monday, November 1, 2021 at 10:09:24 PM UTC, a425couple wrote:
    Yes, it is Off Topic, but I think it is related
    to our frequent discussion on the great divide.

    I like Robert Leckie.
    He was a Marine who then wrote 40 books.
    As he wrote in 1998,

    Why, then, were five Presidents unable to contain
    Communism in Indo-China?
    Probably because of their naïve but mistaken belief that
    democracy can flourish in any soil. In truth, democracy
    -free speech society with truly representative government -
    is a rare bloom, which has seldom blossomed outside Europe
    or the English-speaking countries of the world. To have
    attempted to graft it onto South Vietnam's population of
    peasants, ignoring their psychology, their traditions, their
    rigidly structured society, their indifference to the Western gods
    of Ballot Box and Freedom and their attachment to a charismatic
    leader, be he emperor, king or commissar, was the original and
    major mistake of the war.

    As was the unbelievable "Arab Spring".
    Destined for disaster and so obvious to anyone
    Yes, indeed.
    We keep thinking times have changed,
    or new devices like cell phone & computers,
    have changed what dictators or dominators can do.

    Just walk in like a HMFIC badass, and do what is
    best for your own country, I guess.

    Maybe a re-read would be worthwhile: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy#Middle_Ages


    who knew NA/ME.

    What do you mean NA/ME ?

    North Africa/Middle East

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)