• A Quora - What were the clergy and popes' reactions to Gutenberg Bible

    From a425couple@21:1/5 to All on Mon Oct 4 10:17:48 2021
    XPost: alt.economics

    Andrew Boyd
    Professor of Ecumenism and Interreligious Dialogue September 26

    What were the clergy and popes' reactions to the Gutenberg Bible and the printing press?

    There is a rather significant letter of 12 March 1455 from Enea Silvio Piccolomini, the future Pope Pius II, to Cardinal Juan de Carvajal, for
    whom he worked.

    It is the only source from which we know how many bibles were printed
    (180). It also praises Gutenberg as a marvelous man, and that the print
    is “exceedingly clean and correct in their script, and without error,
    such as Your Eminence could read effortlessly without glasses.”

    Previously, bibles were expensive. An entire community of Christians
    might have to chip in together to afford one, and it would be kept at
    the church for all to access, usually, because vast majority were not
    literate, by having a literate person read to them, and sometimes the
    books were even chained to the lectern so it wouldn’t be stolen and
    sold, they were that valuable and rare. Nobles might own one.

    Now, not only were they going to be cheaply available, they were easier
    to read. the clergy were enthusiastic, as was the pope. The first
    printing sold out almost immediately. In relatively short order, printed
    bibles were in the hands of Catholics everywhere. It was a great thing.

    --------------


    David Ecale
    September 28

    There was a documentary on Gutenberg some few years ago on TV. The best take-out of the show was a quip that the commentator listed. It went
    something like this:
    Gutenberg: Dear Abbot, ow many bibles would you like?

    Abbot: We’ll take six.

    ——

    The Bible became the Church’s version of a “Book of the Month Club best seller!” Every parish wanted one of its own.

    What the Church missed was that the printing press would become a
    significant piece of fuel that fired the Reformation. For Martin Luther,
    John Calvin, and their lot would have had no significant way to spread
    their translations without it.

    It took the Church some time to get into the game with the Douay Bible.
    But, the religious wars had already begun and the Douay was a second
    fiddle to the flood of other translations.

    Don Stursma
    September 27
    Wasn’t there concern that if ordinary people could get their hands on
    the Bible, they might read it and begin to question church doctrine? Or
    did that come later.

    Andrew Boyd
    September 27
    That wasn’t really an issue, but it’s a popular anti-Catholic trope. The only problem that came up was people peddling bad translations or mistranslations to support heretical views. But, for example, in
    Tyndale’s time, the market was so flooded with translations, that
    everyone who wanted one already had one.

    Don Stursma
    September 27
    Please be aware there was no Catholic Church bashing intent in my question.

    Yes, didn’t think so! :)

    Peter Green
    Thu
    It wasn't as simple as either side portrays it. But the major issue historically raised by Protestants was not so much that access to
    scriptures was banned, as that availability of vernacular translations
    was very limited.

    After the Albergensian Crusade there was considerable unease about lay
    access to the Bible, which is why devotional books “…of hours" etc grew
    in popularity. These contained extracts from the gospels and 22 of the
    Psalms for devotional purposes, together with a variety of prayers and meditations. But reading the epistles wasn't encouraged.

    Particularly in the Netherlands and to an extent in England, vernacular versions were also produced.

    However more of the Bible was read in masses, as we find in allusions
    and references in Chaucer and elsewhere. There was also a healthy
    tradition of biblical plays which made many stories of the Old and New testaments known. But while fairly large sections of the gospels were translated into Old English before 1100, and there was a tradition of vernacular preaching in that period, Latin became dominant in Church,
    making lay people more dependant on the plays for information.

    Considering that literacy was fairly low and hand written books were
    extremely expensive, in effect, lay people had very limited direct
    access to the Bible until printing became established.

    And, while Protestants actively promoted Bible reading from the 1520s,
    and promoted the printing of Bibles, naturally Catholics were uneasy
    about it until after the authorised Douay version was published.

    Effectively, the Catholic Church was caught on the hop and had nothing
    to offer as an alternative to Protestant translations; and there was a
    mindset that the Vulgate was the only reliable version, so that, while Protestant translations were generally good for their time, they were
    from Greek and Hebrew) Aramaic, which posed a problem alongside the
    political one in recommending then for general use.

    The other issue was that different dioceses had different policies, with
    some being fairly open to lay access to at least parts of the
    scriptures, and some quite restrictive.

    This was the situation until the late 19th century when some of the last episcopal declarations against Bible reading were issued.

    From memory, the really big boost to Bible reading among Catholics was publication of the Jerusalem Bible in 1966, which, in conjunction with
    Vatican II, clarified the church's position and made it uniform.

    You could probably say that lay access to scriptures was overall more
    limited among Catholics than among Protestants after the Reformation,
    but the restrictions, though with an historical basis, were neither
    consistent in any particular place nor uniform over time.

    Don Stursma
    Yeah history is messy. Believe the wide availability of copies

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  • From SolomonW@21:1/5 to All on Tue Oct 5 17:57:14 2021
    XPost: alt.economics

    On Mon, 4 Oct 2021 10:17:48 -0700, a425couple wrote:

    because vast majority were not
    literate, by having a literate person read to them,

    The Latin would not help

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