• =?UTF-8?Q?Smithsonian_-_Why_Did_Greenland=e2=80=99s_Vikings_Vanish?= =?

    From a425couple@21:1/5 to All on Thu Sep 9 08:01:25 2021
    XPost: soc.history.war.misc

    from https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/why-greenland-vikings-vanished-180962119/

    Go to citation for pictures and maps.
    This also disagrees with Diamond's views.

    Why Did Greenland’s Vikings Vanish?

    Newly discovered evidence is upending our understanding of how early
    settlers made a life on the island — and why they suddenly disappeared
    The remnants of a Viking barn
    The remnants of a Viking barn still stand at what had been the
    settlement of Gardar. (Ciril Jazbec)
    By Tim Folger
    SMITHSONIAN MAGAZINE | SUBSCRIBE
    MARCH 2017
    2.9K583292
    On the grassy slope of a fjord near the southernmost tip of Greenland
    stand the ruins of a church built by Viking settlers more than a century
    before Columbus sailed to the Americas. The thick granite-block walls
    remain intact, as do the 20-foot-high gables. The wooden roof, rafters
    and doors collapsed and rotted away long ago. Now sheep come and go at
    will, munching wild thyme where devout Norse Christian converts once
    knelt in prayer.

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    The Vikings called this fjord Hvalsey, which means “Whale Island” in Old Norse. It was here that Sigrid Bjornsdottir wed Thorstein Olafsson on
    Sunday, September 16, 1408. The couple had been sailing from Norway to
    Iceland when they were blown off course; they ended up settling in
    Greenland, which by then had been a Viking colony for some 400 years.
    Their marriage was mentioned in three letters written between 1409 and
    1424, and was then recorded for posterity by medieval Icelandic scribes. Another record from the period noted that one person had been burned at
    the stake at Hvalsey for witchcraft.

    But the documents are most remarkable—and baffling—for what they don’t contain: any hint of hardship or imminent catastrophe for the Viking
    settlers in Greenland, who’d been living at the very edge of the known
    world ever since a renegade Icelander named Erik the Red arrived in a
    fleet of 14 longships in 985. For those letters were the last anyone
    ever heard from the Norse Greenlanders.

    They vanished from history.

    Preview thumbnail for video 'Subscribe to Smithsonian magazine now for
    just $12
    Subscribe to Smithsonian magazine now for just $12
    This article is a selection from the March issue of Smithsonian magazine
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    “If there was trouble, we might reasonably have thought that there would
    be some mention of it,” says Ian Simpson, an archaeologist at the
    University of Stirling, in Scotland. But according to the letters, he
    says, “it was just an ordinary wedding in an orderly community.”

    Europeans didn’t return to Greenland until the early 18th century. When
    they did, they found the ruins of the Viking settlements but no trace of
    the inhabitants. The fate of Greenland’s Vikings—who never numbered more than 2,500—has intrigued and confounded generations of archaeologists.

    Those tough seafaring warriors came to one of the world’s most
    formidable environments and made it their home. And they didn’t just get
    by: They built manor houses and hundreds of farms; they imported stained
    glass; they raised sheep, goats and cattle; they traded furs,
    walrus-tusk ivory, live polar bears and other exotic arctic goods with
    Europe. “These guys were really out on the frontier,” says Andrew
    Dugmore, a geographer at the University of Edinburgh. “They’re not just there for a few years. They’re there for generations—for centuries.”

    So what happened to them?

    **********

    Thomas McGovern used to think he knew. An archaeologist at Hunter
    College of the City University of New York, McGovern has spent more than
    40 years piecing together the history of the Norse settlements in
    Greenland. With his heavy white beard and thick build, he could pass for
    a Viking chieftain, albeit a bespectacled one. Over Skype, here’s how he summarized what had until recently been the consensus view, which he
    helped establish: “Dumb Norsemen go into the north outside the range of
    their economy, mess up the environment and then they all die when it
    gets cold.”

    Thomas McGovern
    Thomas McGovern (with Viking-era animal bones): The Greenlanders’ end
    was “grim.” (Reed Young)
    Accordingly, the Vikings were not just dumb, they also had dumb luck:
    They discovered Greenland during a time known as the Medieval Warm
    Period, which lasted from about 900 to 1300. Sea ice decreased during
    those centuries, so sailing from Scandinavia to Greenland became less hazardous. Longer growing seasons made it feasible to graze cattle,
    sheep and goats in the meadows along sheltered fjords on Greenland’s southwest coast. In short, the Vikings simply transplanted their
    medieval European lifestyle to an uninhabited new land, theirs for the
    taking.

    But eventually, the conventional narrative continues, they had problems. Overgrazing led to soil erosion. A lack of wood—Greenland has very few
    trees, mostly scrubby birch and willow in the southernmost
    fjords—prevented them from building new ships or repairing old ones. But
    the greatest challenge—and the coup de grâce—came when the climate began to cool, triggered by an event on the far side of the world.

    In 1257, a volcano on the Indonesian island of Lombok erupted.
    Geologists rank it as the most powerful eruption of the last 7,000
    years. Climate scientists have found its ashy signature in ice cores
    drilled in Antarctica and in Greenland’s vast ice sheet, which covers
    some 80 percent of the country. Sulfur ejected from the volcano into the stratosphere reflected solar energy back into space, cooling Earth’s
    climate. “It had a global impact,” McGovern says. “Europeans had a long period of famine”—like Scotland’s infamous “seven ill years” in the 1690s, but worse. “The onset was somewhere just after 1300 and continued
    into the 1320s, 1340s. It was pretty grim. A lot of people starving to death.”

    Amid that calamity, so the story goes, Greenland’s Vikings—numbering
    5,000 at their peak—never gave up their old ways. They failed to learn
    from the Inuit, who arrived in northern Greenland a century or two after
    the Vikings landed in the south. They kept their livestock, and when
    their animals starved, so did they. The more flexible Inuit, with a
    culture focused on hunting marine mammals, thrived.

    That is what archaeologists believed until a few years ago. McGovern’s
    own PhD dissertation made the same arguments. Jared Diamond, the UCLA geographer, showcased the idea in Collapse, his 2005 best seller about environmental catastrophes. “The Norse were undone by the same social
    glue that had enabled them to master Greenland’s difficulties,” Diamond wrote. “The values to which people cling most stubbornly under
    inappropriate conditions are those values that were previously the
    source of their greatest triumphs over adversity.”

    But over the last decade a radically different picture of Viking life in Greenland has started to emerge from the remains of the old settlements,
    and it has received scant coverage outside of academia. “It’s a good
    thing they can’t make you give your PhD back once you’ve got it,” McGovern jokes. He and the small community of scholars who study the
    Norse experience in Greenland no longer believe that the Vikings were
    ever so numerous, or heedlessly despoiled their new home, or failed to
    adapt when confronted with challenges that threatened them with
    annihilation.

    “It’s a very different story from my dissertation,” says McGovern. “It’s
    scarier. You can do a lot of things right—you can be highly adaptive;
    you can be very flexible; you can be resilient—and you go extinct
    anyway.” And according to other archaeologists, the plot thickens even
    more: It may be that Greenland’s Vikings didn’t vanish, at least not all
    of them.

    **********

    Lush grass now covers most of what was once the most important Viking settlement in Greenland. Gardar, as the Norse called it, was the
    official residence of their bishop. A few foundation stones are all that
    remain of Gardar’s cathedral, the pride of Norse Greenland, with stained glass and a heavy bronze bell. Far more impressive now are the nearby
    ruins of an enormous barn. Vikings from Sweden to Greenland measured
    their status by the cattle they owned, and the Greenlanders spared no
    effort to protect their livestock. The barn’s Stonehenge-like partition
    and the thick turf and stone walls that sheltered prized animals during
    brutal winters have endured longer than Gardar’s most sacred architecture.

    Disko Bay
    Vikings sailed hundreds of miles from their settlements to hunt walrus
    in Disko Bay. (Guilbert Gates)
    Gardar’s ruins occupy a small fenced-in field abutting the backyards of Igaliku, an Inuit sheep-farming community of about 30 brightly painted
    wooden houses overlooking a fjord backed by 5,000-foot-high snowcapped mountains. No roads run between towns in Greenland—planes and boats are
    the only options for traversing a coastline corrugated by innumerable
    fjords and glacial tongues. On an uncommonly warm and bright August
    afternoon, I caught a boat from Igaliku with a Slovenian photographer
    named Ciril Jazbec and rode a few miles southwest on Aniaaq fjord, a
    region Erik the Red must have known well. Late in the afternoon, with
    the arctic summer sun still high in the sky, we got off at a rocky beach
    where an Inuit farmer named Magnus Hansen was waiting for us in his
    pickup truck. After we loaded the truck with our backpacks and essential supplies requested by the archaeologists—a case of beer, two bottles of Scotch, a carton of menthol cigarettes and some tins of snuff—Hansen
    drove us to our destination: a Viking homestead being excavated by
    Konrad Smiarowski, one of McGovern’s doctoral students.

    The homestead lies at the end of a hilly dirt road a few miles inland on Hansen’s farm. It’s no accident that most modern Inuit farms in
    Greenland are found near Viking sites: On our trip down the fjord, we
    were told that every local farmer knows the Norse chose the best
    locations for their homesteads.

    The Vikings established two outposts in Greenland: one along the fjords
    of the southwest coast, known historically as the Eastern Settlement,
    where Gardar is located, and a smaller colony about 240 miles north,
    called the Western Settlement. Nearly every summer for the last several
    years, Smiarowski has returned to various sites in the Eastern
    Settlement to understand how the Vikings managed to live here for so
    many centuries, and what happened to them in the end.

    This season’s site, a thousand-year-old Norse homestead, was once part
    of a vital community. “Everyone was connected over this huge landscape,” Smiarowski says. “If we walked for a day we could visit probably 20
    different farms.”

    He and his team of seven students have spent several weeks digging into
    a midden—a trash heap—just below the homestead’s tumbled ruins. On a cold, damp morning, Cameron Turley, a PhD candidate at the City
    University of New York, stands in the ankle-deep water of a drainage
    ditch. He’ll spend most of the day here, a heavy hose draped over his shoulder, rinsing mud from artifacts collected in a wood-framed sieve
    held by Michalina Kardynal, an undergraduate from Cardinal Stefan
    Wyszynski University in Warsaw. This morning they’ve found a delicate
    wooden comb, its teeth intact. They’re also finding seal bones. Lots of
    them.

    “Probably about 50 percent of all bones at this site will be seal
    bones,” Smiarowski says as we stand by the drainage ditch in a light
    rain. He speaks from experience: Seal bones have been abundant at every
    site he has studied, and his findings have been pivotal in reassessing
    how the Norse adapted to life in Greenland. The ubiquity of seal bones
    is evidence that the Norse began hunting the animals “from the very beginning,” Smiarowski says. “We see harp and hooded seal bones from the earliest layers at all sites.”

    A seal-based diet would have been a drastic shift from
    beef-and-dairy-centric Scandinavian fare. But a study of human skeletal
    remains from both the Eastern and Western settlements showed that the
    Vikings quickly adopted a new diet. Over time, the food we eat leaves a chemical stamp on our bones—marine-based diets mark us with different
    ratios of certain chemical elements than terrestrial foods do. Five
    years ago, researchers based in Scandinavia and Scotland analyzed the
    skeletons of 118 individuals from the earliest periods of settlement to
    the latest. The results perfectly complement Smiarow­ski’s fieldwork:
    Over time, people ate an increasingly marine diet, he says.

    It’s raining heavily now, and we’re huddled beneath a blue tarp next to
    the midden, sipping coffee and ingesting some terrestrial chemical
    elements in the form of cookies. In the earliest days of the
    settlements, Smiarowski says, the study found that marine animals made
    up 30 to 40 percent of the Norse diet. The percentage steadily climbed,
    until, by the end of the settlement period, 80 percent of the Norse diet
    came from the sea. Beef eventually became a luxury, most likely because
    the volcano-induced climate change made it vastly more difficult to
    raise cattle in Greenland.

    Judging from the bones Smiarowski has uncovered, most of the seafood
    consisted of seals—few fish bones have been found. Yet it appears the
    Norse were careful: They limited their hunting of the local harbor seal,
    Phoca vitulina, a species that raises its young on beaches, making it
    easy prey. (The harbor seal is critically endangered in Greenland today
    due to overhunting.) “They could have wiped them out, and they didn’t,” Smiarowski says. Instead, they pursued the more abundant—and more
    difficult to catch—harp seal, Phoca groenlandica, which migrates up the
    west coast of Greenland every spring on the way from Canada. Those
    hunts, he says, must have been well-organized communal affairs, with the
    meat distributed to the entire settlement—seal bones have been found at homestead sites even far inland. The regular arrival of the seals in the spring, just when the Vikings’ winter stores of cheese and meat were
    running low, would have been keenly anticipated.



    The last news of Greenland’s Vikings came from Hvalsey. (Ciril Jazbec) “People came from different farms; some provided labor, some provided boats,” Smiarowski says, speculating. “Maybe there were several centers organizing things along the coast of the Eastern Settlement. Then the
    catch was divided among the farms, I would assume according to how much
    each farm contributed to the hunt.” The annual spring seal hunt might
    have resembled communal whale hunts practiced to this day by the Faroe Islanders, who are the descendants of Vikings.

    The Norse harnessed their organizational energy for an even more
    important task: annual walrus hunts. Smiarowski, McGovern and other archaeologists now suspect that the Vikings first traveled to Greenland
    not in search of new land to farm—a motive mentioned in some of the old sagas—but to acquire walrus-tusk ivory, one of medieval Europe’s most valuable trade items. Who, they ask, would risk crossing hundreds of
    miles of arctic seas just to farm in conditions far worse than those at
    home? As a low-bulk, high-value item, ivory would have been an
    irresistible lure for seafaring traders.

    Many ivory artifacts from the Middle Ages, whether religious or secular,
    were carved from walrus tusks, and the Vikings, with their ships and
    far-flung trading networks, monopolized the commodity in Northern
    Europe. After hunting walruses to extinction in Iceland, the Norse must
    have sought them out in Greenland. They found large herds in Disko Bay,
    about 600 miles north of the Eastern Settlement and 300 miles north of
    the Western Settlement. “The sagas would have us believe that it was
    Erik the Red who went out and explored [Greenland],” says Jette
    Arneborg, a senior researcher at the National Museum of Denmark, who,
    like McGovern, has studied the Norse settlements for decades. “But the initiative might have been from elite farmers in Iceland who wanted to
    keep up the ivory trade—it might have been in an attempt to continue
    this trade that they went farther west.”

    Smiarowski and other archaeologists have unearthed ivory fragments at
    nearly every site they’ve studied. It seems the Eastern and Western settlements may have pooled their resources in an annual walrus hunt,
    sending out parties of young men every summer. “An individual farm
    couldn’t do it,” he says. “You would need a really good boat and a crew. And you need to get there. It’s far away.” Written records from the
    period mention sailing times of 27 days to the hunting grounds from the
    Eastern Settlement and 15 days from the Western Settlement.

    To maximize cargo space, the walrus hunters would have returned home
    with only the most valuable parts of the animal—the hides, which were fashioned into ships’ rigging, and parts of the animals’ skulls. “They did the extraction of the ivory here on-site,” Smiarowski says. “Not
    that many actually on this site here, but on most other sites you have
    these chips of walrus maxilla [the upper jaw]—very dense bone. It’s
    quite distinct from other bones. It’s almost like rock—very hard.”



    A bishop’s ring and the top of his crosier from the Gardar ruins (Ciril Jazbec)
    How profitable was the ivory trade? Every six years, the Norse in
    Greenland and Iceland paid a tithe to the Norwegian king. A document
    from 1327, recording the shipment of a single boatload of tusks to
    Bergen, Norway, shows that that boatload, with tusks from 260 walruses,
    was worth more than all the woolen cloth sent to the king by nearly
    4,000 Icelandic farms for one six-year period.

    Archaeologists once assumed that the Norse in Greenland were primarily
    farmers who did some hunting on the side. Now it seems clear that the
    reverse was true. They were ivory hunters first and foremost, their
    farms only a means to an end. Why else would ivory fragments be so
    prevalent among the excavated sites? And why else would the Vikings send
    so many able-bodied men on hunting expeditions to the far north at the
    height of the farming season? “There was a huge potential for ivory export,” says Smiarowski, “and they set up farms to support that.” Ivory drew them to Greenland, ivory kept them there, and their attachment to
    that toothy trove may be what eventually doomed them.

    **********

    When the Norse arrived in Greenland, there were no locals to teach them
    how to live. “The Scandinavians had this remarkable ability to colonize
    these high-latitude islands,” says Andrew Dugmore. “You have to be able
    to hunt wild animals; you have to build up your livestock; you have to
    work hard to exist in these areas....This is about as far as you can
    push the farming system in the Northern Hemisphere.”

    And push it they did. The growing season was short, and the land
    vulnerable to overgrazing. Ian Simpson has spent many seasons in
    Greenland studying soil layers where the Vikings farmed. The strata, he
    says, clearly show the impact of their arrival: The earliest layers are thinner, with less organic material, but within a generation or two the
    layers stabilized and the organic matter built up as the Norse farmwomen manured and improved their fields while the men were out hunting. “You
    can interpret that as being a sign of adaptation, of them getting used
    to the landscape and being able to read it a little better,” Simpson says.

    For all their intrepidness, though, the Norse were far from
    self-sufficient, and imported grains, iron, wine and other essentials.
    Ivory was their currency. “Norse society in Greenland couldn’t survive without trade with Europe,” says Arneborg, “and that’s from day one.”

    Then, in the 13th century, after three centuries, their world changed profoundly. First, the climate cooled because of the volcanic eruption
    in Indonesia. Sea ice increased, and so did ocean storms—ice cores from
    that period contain more salt from oceanic winds that blew over the ice
    sheet. Second, the market for walrus ivory collapsed, partly because
    Portugal and other countries started to open trade routes into
    sub-Saharan Africa, which brought elephant ivory to the European market.
    “The fashion for ivory began to wane,” says Dugmore, “and there was also the competition with elephant ivory, which was much better quality.” And finally, the Black Death devastated Europe. There is no evidence that
    the plague ever reached Greenland, but half the population of
    Norway—which was Greenland’s lifeline to the civilized world—perished.

    The Norse probably could have survived any one of those calamities
    separately. After all, they remained in Greenland for at least a century
    after the climate changed, so the onset of colder conditions alone
    wasn’t enough to undo them. Moreover, they were still building new churches—like the one at Hvalsey—in the 14th century. But all three
    blows must have left them reeling. With nothing to exchange for European goods—and with fewer Europeans left—their way of life would have been impossible to maintain. The Greenland Vikings were essentially victims
    of globalization and a pandemic.

    “If you consider the world today, many communities will face exposure to climate change,” says Dugmore. “They’ll also face issues of globalization. The really difficult bit is when you have exposure to both.”

    **********

    So what was the endgame like in Greenland? Although archaeologists now
    agree that the Norse did about as well as any society could in
    confronting existential threats, they remain divided over how the
    Vikings’ last days played out. Some believe that the Norse, faced with
    the triple threat of economic collapse, pandemic and climate change,
    simply packed up and left. Others say the Norse, despite their adaptive ingenuity, met a far grimmer fate.

    For McGovern, the answer is clear. “I think in the end this was a real tragedy. This was the loss of a small community, a thousand people maybe
    at the end. This was extinction.”

    The Norse, he says, were especially vulnerable to sudden death at sea.
    Revised population estimates, based on more accurate tallies of the
    number of farms and graves, put the Norse Greenlanders at no more than
    2,500 at their peak—less than half the conventional figure. Every spring
    and summer, nearly all the men would be far from home, hunting. As
    conditions for raising cattle worsened, the seal hunts would have been
    ever more vital—and more hazardous. Despite the decline of the ivory
    trade, the Norse apparently continued to hunt walrus until the very end.
    So a single storm at sea could have wiped out a substantial number of Greenland’s men—and by the 14th century the weather was increasingly stormy. “You see similar things happening at other places and other
    times,” McGovern says. “In 1881, there was a catastrophic storm when the Shetland fishing fleet was out in these little boats. In one afternoon
    about 80 percent of the men and boys of the Shetlands drowned. A whole
    bunch of little communities never recovered.”



    Erik the Red slept here: Qassiarsuk features replicas of a Viking church
    and longhouse. (Ciril Jazbec)
    Norse society itself comprised two very small communities: the Eastern
    and Western settlements. With such a sparse population, any loss—whether
    from death or emigration—would have placed an enormous strain on the survivors. “If there weren’t enough of them, the seal hunt would not be successful,” says Smiarowski. “And if it was not successful for a couple
    of years in a row, then it would be devastating.”

    McGovern thinks a few people might have migrated out, but he rules out
    any sort of exodus. If Greenlanders had emigrated en masse to Iceland or Norway, surely there would have been a record of such an event. Both
    countries were literate societies, with a penchant for writing down
    important news. “If you had hundreds or a thousand people coming out of Greenland,” McGovern says, “someone would have noticed.”

    Niels Lynnerup, a forensic anthropologist at the University of
    Copenhagen who has studied Viking burial sites in Greenland, isn’t so
    sure. “I think in Greenland it happened very gradually and
    undramatically,” he tells me as we sit in his office, beneath a poster
    of the Belgian cartoon character Tintin. “Maybe it’s the usual human
    story. People move to where there are resources. And they move away when something doesn’t work for them.” As for the silence of the historical record, he says, a gradual departure might not have attracted much
    attention.

    The ruins themselves hint at an orderly departure. There is no evidence
    of conflict with the Inuit or of any intentional damage to homesteads.
    And aside from a gold ring found on the skeletal finger of a bishop at
    Gardar, and his narwhal-tusk staff, no items of real value have been
    found at any sites in Greenland. “When you abandon a small settlement,
    what do you take with you? The valuables, the family jewelry,” says
    Lynnerup. “You don’t leave your sword or your good metal knife....You don’t abandon Christ on his crucifix. You take that along. I’m sure the cathedral would have had some paraphernalia—cups, candelabras—which we
    know medieval churches have, but which have never been found in Greenland.”

    Jette Arneborg and her colleagues found evidence of a tidy leave-taking
    at a Western Settlement homestead known as the Farm Beneath the Sands.
    The doors on all but one of the rooms had rotted away, and there were
    signs that abandoned sheep had entered those doorless rooms. But one
    room retained a door, and it was closed. “It was totally clean. No sheep
    had been in that room,” says Arneborg. For her, the implications are
    obvious. “They cleaned up, took what they wanted, and left. They even
    closed the doors.”

    Perhaps the Norse could have toughed it out in Greenland by fully
    adopting the ways of the Inuit. But that would have meant a complete
    surrender of their identity. They were civilized Europeans—not
    skraelings, or wretches, as they called the Inuit. “Why didn’t the Norse just go native?” Lynnerup asks. “Why didn’t the Puritans just go native? But of course they didn’t. There was never any question of the Europeans
    who came to America becoming nomadic and living off buffalo.”

    We do know that at least two people made it out of Greenland alive:
    Sigrid Bjornsdottir and Thorstein Olafsson, the couple who married at Hvalsey’s church. They eventually settled in Iceland, and in 1424, for reasons lost to history, they needed to provide letters and witnesses
    proving that they had been married in Greenland. Whether they were among
    a lucky few survivors or part of a larger immigrant community may remain unknown. But there’s a chance that Greenland’s Vikings never vanished,
    that their descendants are with us still.

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  • From a425couple@21:1/5 to All on Thu Sep 9 15:06:51 2021
    XPost: soc.history.war.misc

    On 9/9/2021 8:01 AM, a425couple wrote:
    from https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/why-greenland-vikings-vanished-180962119/


    Go to citation for pictures and maps.
    This also disagrees with Diamond's views.

    Why Did Greenland’s Vikings Vanish?

    Newly discovered evidence is upending our understanding of how early
    settlers made a life on the island — and why they suddenly disappeared
    The remnants of a Viking barn
    The remnants of a Viking barn still stand at what had been the
    settlement of Gardar. (Ciril Jazbec)
    By Tim Folger
    SMITHSONIAN MAGAZINE | SUBSCRIBE
    MARCH 2017
    2.9K583292

    more reading at:


    The Vikings: A Memorable Visit to America
    The Icelandic house of what is likely the first European-American baby
    has scholars rethinking the Norse sagas https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-vikings-a-memorable-visit-to-america-98090935/

    Archaeology news: ‘Prefect storm’ including Black Death wiped out Greenland’s vikings
    VIKINGS in Greenland died out as a result of starvation, climate change
    and even the Black Death archaeologists have revealed. https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/1231743/archaeology-news-vikings-black-death-history-greenland-climate-change

    and, there are a lot of 'nattering' comments.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From SolomonW@21:1/5 to All on Fri Sep 10 12:59:50 2021
    XPost: soc.history.war.misc

    On Thu, 9 Sep 2021 15:06:51 -0700, a425couple wrote:

    On 9/9/2021 8:01 AM, a425couple wrote:
    from
    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/why-greenland-vikings-vanished-180962119/


    Go to citation for pictures and maps.
    This also disagrees with Diamond's views.

    Why Did Greenlands Vikings Vanish?

    Newly discovered evidence is upending our understanding of how early
    settlers made a life on the island X and why they suddenly disappeared
    The remnants of a Viking barn
    The remnants of a Viking barn still stand at what had been the
    settlement of Gardar. (Ciril Jazbec)
    By Tim Folger
    SMITHSONIAN MAGAZINE | SUBSCRIBE
    MARCH 2017
    2.9K583292

    more reading at:


    The Vikings: A Memorable Visit to America
    The Icelandic house of what is likely the first European-American baby
    has scholars rethinking the Norse sagas https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-vikings-a-memorable-visit-to-america-98090935/

    Archaeology news: Prefect storm including Black Death wiped out Greenlands vikings
    VIKINGS in Greenland died out as a result of starvation, climate change
    and even the Black Death archaeologists have revealed. https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/1231743/archaeology-news-vikings-black-death-history-greenland-climate-change

    and, there are a lot of 'nattering' comments.

    Well written but little new here.

    What I found interesting is that it might not have been in search of
    farmland and who turned to ivory but ivory farmers.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Eric Stevens@21:1/5 to All on Fri Sep 10 21:06:00 2021
    XPost: soc.history.war.misc

    On Thu, 9 Sep 2021 08:01:25 -0700, a425couple <a425couple@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    from >https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/why-greenland-vikings-vanished-180962119/

    Go to citation for pictures and maps.
    This also disagrees with Diamond's views.

    Why Did Greenland’s Vikings Vanish?

    Newly discovered evidence is upending our understanding of how early
    settlers made a life on the island — and why they suddenly disappeared
    The remnants of a Viking barn
    The remnants of a Viking barn still stand at what had been the
    settlement of Gardar. (Ciril Jazbec)
    By Tim Folger
    SMITHSONIAN MAGAZINE | SUBSCRIBE
    MARCH 2017
    2.9K583292
    etc....

    --- <Vast Snip> ---

    What is missing is any reference to the theory that the remnants of
    the population were captured and put into slavery by two Portuguese
    brothers whose name presently escapes me.
    --

    Regards,

    Eric Stevens

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From a425couple@21:1/5 to SolomonW on Fri Sep 10 09:56:48 2021
    XPost: soc.history.war.misc

    On 9/9/2021 7:59 PM, SolomonW wrote:
    On Thu, 9 Sep 2021 15:06:51 -0700, a425couple wrote:

    On 9/9/2021 8:01 AM, a425couple wrote:
    from
    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/why-greenland-vikings-vanished-180962119/


    Go to citation for pictures and maps.
    This also disagrees with Diamond's views.

    Why Did Greenland’s Vikings Vanish?

    Newly discovered evidence is upending our understanding of how early
    settlers made a life on the island — and why they suddenly disappeared >>> The remnants of a Viking barn
    The remnants of a Viking barn still stand at what had been the
    settlement of Gardar. (Ciril Jazbec)
    By Tim Folger
    SMITHSONIAN MAGAZINE | SUBSCRIBE
    MARCH 2017
    2.9K583292

    more reading at:

    The Vikings: A Memorable Visit to America
    The Icelandic house of what is likely the first European-American baby
    has scholars rethinking the Norse sagas
    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-vikings-a-memorable-visit-to-america-98090935/

    Archaeology news: ‘Prefect storm’ including Black Death wiped out
    Greenland’s vikings
    VIKINGS in Greenland died out as a result of starvation, climate change
    and even the Black Death archaeologists have revealed.
    https://www.express.co.uk/news/science/1231743/archaeology-news-vikings-black-death-history-greenland-climate-change

    and, there are a lot of 'nattering' comments.

    Well written but little new here. >
    Correct.
    Yeah I thought the hype indicated something new.
    But,,,, not really.
    But still, shows the revised thinking since Daimond's stupidity.

    What I found interesting is that it might not have been in search of
    farmland and who turned to ivory but ivory farmers.

    I'm reminded of this display we saw in England: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_chessmen

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From a425couple@21:1/5 to Eric Stevens on Fri Sep 10 10:40:28 2021
    XPost: soc.history.war.misc

    On 9/10/2021 2:06 AM, Eric Stevens wrote:
    On Thu, 9 Sep 2021 08:01:25 -0700, a425couple <a425couple@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    from
    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/why-greenland-vikings-vanished-180962119/

    Go to citation for pictures and maps.
    This also disagrees with Diamond's views.

    Why Did Greenland’s Vikings Vanish?

    Newly discovered evidence is upending our understanding of how early
    settlers made a life on the island — and why they suddenly disappeared
    The remnants of a Viking barn
    The remnants of a Viking barn still stand at what had been the
    settlement of Gardar. (Ciril Jazbec)
    By Tim Folger
    SMITHSONIAN MAGAZINE | SUBSCRIBE
    MARCH 2017
    2.9K583292
    etc....

    --- <Vast Snip> ---

    What is missing is any reference to the theory that the remnants of
    the population were captured and put into slavery by two Portuguese
    brothers whose name presently escapes me.

    Huh?? !!!

    I find, that this is probably what you are referring to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaspar_Corte-Real

    "In 1498, King Manuel I of Portugal took an interest in western
    exploration, likely believing that the lands recently discovered by John
    Cabot (the coast of North America) were within the realm of Portuguese
    control under the Treaty of Tordesillas. Corte-Real was one of several explorers to sail west on behalf of Portugal.[3]

    In 1500, Corte-Real reached Greenland, believing it to be east Asia (as Christopher Columbus had regarded the New World), but was unable to
    land. He set out on a second voyage in 1501, taking three caravels. The expedition was again prevented from landing at Greenland due to frozen
    seas. They changed course, and landed in a country of large rivers, pine
    trees, and berries, believed to be Labrador. There it is believed they
    captured 57 indigenous people, who were taken back to Portugal to be
    sold into slavery to assist in financing the voyage.[4] Two of the
    expedition's three ships made the return trip to Portugal, but the ship carrying Corte-Real was lost.[3]"

    I have trouble, from other readings, thinking these
    could have been the Vikings from Greenland.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From William Hyde@21:1/5 to All on Fri Sep 10 15:43:21 2021
    On Friday, September 10, 2021 at 1:40:32 PM UTC-4, a425couple wrote:
    On 9/10/2021 2:06 AM, Eric Stevens wrote:
    On Thu, 9 Sep 2021 08:01:25 -0700, a425couple <a425c...@hotmail.com> wrote:

    from
    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/why-greenland-vikings-vanished-180962119/

    Go to citation for pictures and maps.
    This also disagrees with Diamond's views.

    Why Did Greenland’s Vikings Vanish?

    Newly discovered evidence is upending our understanding of how early
    settlers made a life on the island — and why they suddenly disappeared >> The remnants of a Viking barn
    The remnants of a Viking barn still stand at what had been the
    settlement of Gardar. (Ciril Jazbec)
    By Tim Folger
    SMITHSONIAN MAGAZINE | SUBSCRIBE
    MARCH 2017
    2.9K583292
    etc....

    --- <Vast Snip> ---

    What is missing is any reference to the theory that the remnants of
    the population were captured and put into slavery by two Portuguese brothers whose name presently escapes me.

    Huh?? !!!

    I find, that this is probably what you are referring to: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaspar_Corte-Real

    In "The Frozen Echo", Sievert deduces the existence of trade between England and Greenland, kept quiet as such was in violation of Danish law. She cites imports dating from well past the last known official trading trip (1408) found in the eastern
    settlement. People could have booked or worked their passage on such ships.

    The Western settlement was perhaps dealt it's death blow by Ivar Bardarsson's taxation/pirate raid in which all their animals were taken (IB was collecting back taxes for both the church and the state).

    Not being prepared to do anything for their co-religionists, the church satisfied itself with declaring them to be heretics. The bishopric of Gardar was continued into the late 1500s as a nice sinecure, but no Bishop of Gardar actually visited the place
    after 1378.

    William Hyde

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Eric Stevens@21:1/5 to a425couple@hotmail.com on Sat Sep 11 21:31:25 2021
    XPost: soc.history.war.misc

    On Fri, 10 Sep 2021 10:40:28 -0700, a425couple
    <a425couple@hotmail.com> wrote:

    On 9/10/2021 2:06 AM, Eric Stevens wrote:
    On Thu, 9 Sep 2021 08:01:25 -0700, a425couple <a425couple@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    from
    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/why-greenland-vikings-vanished-180962119/

    Go to citation for pictures and maps.
    This also disagrees with Diamond's views.

    Why Did Greenland’s Vikings Vanish?

    Newly discovered evidence is upending our understanding of how early
    settlers made a life on the island — and why they suddenly disappeared >>> The remnants of a Viking barn
    The remnants of a Viking barn still stand at what had been the
    settlement of Gardar. (Ciril Jazbec)
    By Tim Folger
    SMITHSONIAN MAGAZINE | SUBSCRIBE
    MARCH 2017
    2.9K583292
    etc....

    --- <Vast Snip> ---

    What is missing is any reference to the theory that the remnants of
    the population were captured and put into slavery by two Portuguese
    brothers whose name presently escapes me.

    Huh?? !!!

    I find, that this is probably what you are referring to: >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaspar_Corte-Real

    "In 1498, King Manuel I of Portugal took an interest in western
    exploration, likely believing that the lands recently discovered by John >Cabot (the coast of North America) were within the realm of Portuguese >control under the Treaty of Tordesillas. Corte-Real was one of several >explorers to sail west on behalf of Portugal.[3]

    In 1500, Corte-Real reached Greenland, believing it to be east Asia (as >Christopher Columbus had regarded the New World), but was unable to
    land. He set out on a second voyage in 1501, taking three caravels. The >expedition was again prevented from landing at Greenland due to frozen
    seas. They changed course, and landed in a country of large rivers, pine >trees, and berries, believed to be Labrador. There it is believed they >captured 57 indigenous people, who were taken back to Portugal to be
    sold into slavery to assist in financing the voyage.[4] Two of the >expedition's three ships made the return trip to Portugal, but the ship >carrying Corte-Real was lost.[3]"

    I have trouble, from other readings, thinking these
    could have been the Vikings from Greenland.

    From what I can recall one of the brothers at least made separate
    voyages ... and ships disappeared ... it all got complicated and
    highly speculative with fragmentary documentation and all that, but
    the theory was proposed nevertheless..
    --

    Regards,

    Eric Stevens

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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