On Friday, July 15, 2016 at 9:41:31 AM UTC+3, Martin Edwards wrote:
On 7/14/2016 10:43 AM, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
The Phoenicians called themselves Canaanites
Some argue from this that there really were no "Israelites", they were simply inland Phoenicians and spoke more or less the same language.
Even today the majority in Scotland do not speak Gaelic, and the
dividing line between "Scots" and English with a Scottish accent is unclear. The "Geordie" accent of Northeast England can be pretty impenenetrable to the rest of the country.
That was probably true. Neverthless the Phoenician cities had
a written standard that is distinguishable from the southern
Canaanites dialects in writing. From Greek transcriptions we know
that Biblical Hebrew in the 3rd cent. BCE preserved phonemic
distinctions from Proto-Semitic not distinguished in the idiom
of the inventors of the alphabet, the Phoenicians.
--
Myth, after all, is what we believe naturally. History is what we must painfully learn and struggle to remember. -Albert Goldman
On Wednesday, July 13, 2016 at 1:23:43 AM UTC+3, Italo wrote:
Yusuf B Gursey <ygu...@gmail.com> schreef:
On Tuesday, July 12, 2016 at 1:39:01 PM UTC+3, Italo wrote:
Yusuf B Gursey <ygu...@gmail.com> schreef:
On Tuesday, July 12, 2016 at 7:02:25 AM UTC+3, Oh so rich & successful JTEM wrote:
Well?
It would be a no brainer to make the archaeological identification
if so.
The archaelogical definition of "Phoenicians" does not quite cover the historical usage of the term.
Herodotus specifically mentions the "Phoenicians" of Askalon as the same people that founded the oldest sanctuary of Aphrodite, at Paphos, Cyprus.
And these Askalonians attacked Sidon "one year before the fall of Troy" (Justinus 18.3) - mirroring Paris' Teucrians capturing Sidon (Cypria, summary by Proclus).
1. I am using contempopary usage.
contempopulary ?
typo. Contemporary.
2. "Phoenicia" in ancient usage included teh whole
Eastern Mediterranian coast at times.
At times, maybe (but where?). Mostly it is reserved for the area belonging with Tyre and Sidon.
Canaan and Phoenicia seem both to mean "purple.
The Phoenicians called themselves Canaanites.
3. Herodotus includes legendary material.
That is not the issue, it is corroborated by pseudo-Skylax who calls Askalon "a city of the Tyrians".
But Tyre taking over Askalon is 7th c at the earliest.
The issue is anachronistic usage, both with Greek and with biblical authors.
Personally, I believe that also the "Phoenicians" of Samothrace and Thebes were rather Pelasgians and Philistines.
Similar confusion with the Danites (led by Menelaus, the Plisthenid, I suppose) that held the sea-coast from Askalon northwards (_far northwards_ actually, but then the same are labeled Canaanite Hivites).
--
b o y c o t t a m e r i c a n p r o d u c t s
On Saturday, July 16, 2016 at 7:16:49 AM UTC+3, Oh so rich & successful JTEM wrote:
Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
[snip]
Hebrew and Phoenician were two dialects.
That's all.
Sure you can CHERRY PICK from amongst the
later ancient Hebrews, compare one of them
to Phoenician & pretend they don't match,
but that's dishonest.
The "later ancient Hebrews" had preserved phonemes
lost to the "earlier" Phoenicians. Go figure. OTOH Phoenician
has some basic vocabulary not found in the epigraphy
further south at the same period. Calling them dialects
or seperate languages is a matter of sociology. They
were closely related and on the whole mutually intelligibile
(so are the Germanic Scandivanian languages).
-- --
http://jtem.tumblr.com/post/147466389883
Yusuf B Gursey, Im a Sailor by trade, 30yrs on the ocean ive went thru a few thousand books. I consider myself an amateur
historian and Im impressed with your knowledge on the Phoenicians, philistines and the caananites.
There is no solid proof or none that I have found that links the 4 different peoples.
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