• We don't know most Roman recipes!

    From Oh so rich & successful JTEM@21:1/5 to All on Thu Nov 12 22:05:12 2020
    Look. We don't have that much information. We do
    not have a good grasp on the sociopolitical dynamics
    of ancient Rome. All we have is the highly baised
    opinions of modern scholars which are loosely based
    (if based at all) on ancient sources which themselves
    did not survive.

    You read that right.

    Almost none of our ancient Roman sources come to
    us from ancient Romans. Almost all of our records
    are latter day manuscripts. Supposedly they're all copies
    of originals, yes, but few mention those originals, offer
    any provenance what so ever.

    I'll explain.

    You can actually go to Washington DC and view an original
    copy of the Declaration of Independence. And that copy has
    in turn been the basis for many copies of the document.

    Right?

    So you can hold a copy of the U.S. Declaration of Independence
    in your hand that's only a few weeks old but still know exactly
    what it is a copy of -- WHERE the source document was found,
    the one they based the document on.

    Not too many of our versions of ancient books have any clear
    lineage to an original ancient source document.

    "Well, hey, I was in Rome last week, my Uncle Ted had a thousand
    year old copy of Josephus written in his own hand and I made
    this and another copy, so enjoy."

    Never happens.

    What I'm saying is that we don't know. It took us a millennia of
    prodding to figure out their concrete and we had examples of
    the stuff to look at! We're still scratching our heads over how
    they made some of their glass, and we can't nail down common
    recipes! Garum was ubiquitous and we believe we know the
    process but nobody knows the recipe. There are precisely ZERO
    modern products said to be Roman garum, though many
    products which are described as similar...

    Yet, morons state with such certainty that they know why Rome
    fell, that they KNOW all the forces at work, the KNOW how these
    forces interact... THEY KNOW!




    -- --

    https://uapro.tumblr.com/post/634644176738418688/theyd-love-to-see-some-ufoparanormal

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  • From reader@21:1/5 to All on Sat Nov 14 02:25:06 2020
    When multiple coppies of the same document are known the odds of them being
    in the line of of n original are greatly increased.

    We don't have the original frog, only copies of it. We don't assume there wasn't an original similar frog because only copies are currently known.

    If one only found copies of the declaration of independence it is a
    reasonable conclusion to think they all point to an original of the same content.

    The consensus of scholarship often follows what other ancient copies of documents also mention of the document in question. It is not uncommon for
    a source known only by such reference to later show up as a newly
    discovered copy of it.

    Look. We don't have that much information. We do
    not have a good grasp on the sociopolitical dynamics
    of ancient Rome. All we have is the highly baised
    opinions of modern scholars which are loosely based
    (if based at all) on ancient sources which themselves
    did not survive.

    You read that right.

    Almost none of our ancient Roman sources come to
    us from ancient Romans. Almost all of our records
    are latter day manuscripts. Supposedly they're all copies
    of originals, yes, but few mention those originals, offer
    any provenance what so ever.

    I'll explain.

    You can actually go to Washington DC and view an original
    copy of the Declaration of Independence. And that copy has
    in turn been the basis for many copies of the document.

    Right?

    So you can hold a copy of the U.S. Declaration of Independence
    in your hand that's only a few weeks old but still know exactly
    what it is a copy of -- WHERE the source document was found,
    the one they based the document on.

    Not too many of our versions of ancient books have any clear
    lineage to an original ancient source document.

    "Well, hey, I was in Rome last week, my Uncle Ted had a thousand
    year old copy of Josephus written in his own hand and I made
    this and another copy, so enjoy."

    Never happens.

    What I'm saying is that we don't know. It took us a millennia of
    prodding to figure out their concrete and we had examples of
    the stuff to look at! We're still scratching our heads over how
    they made some of their glass, and we can't nail down common
    recipes! Garum was ubiquitous and we believe we know the
    process but nobody knows the recipe. There are precisely ZERO
    modern products said to be Roman garum, though many
    products which are described as similar...

    Yet, morons state with such certainty that they know why Rome
    fell, that they KNOW all the forces at work, the KNOW how these
    forces interact... THEY KNOW!




    -- --

    https://uapro.tumblr.com/post/634644176738418688/theyd-love-to-see-some-ufoparanormal

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Oh so rich & successful JTEM@21:1/5 to reader on Mon Nov 16 18:01:38 2020
    reader wrote:
    When multiple coppies of the same document are known the odds of them being in the line of of n original are greatly increased.

    If multiple copies exist and none of them date within 600 years of the
    supposed original, that's not true at all.

    If one only found copies of the declaration of independence it is a reasonable conclusion to think they all point to an original of the same content.

    You failed to read a word I typed...

    We know where the original is. Washington DC could vanish tomorrow and
    we'd still know that the copies are a copy of an original that was located at the National Archives. We do not have any of this with ancient "sources."
    The copies appear when & where they do, with almost never so much as a
    hint of whatever source document they were allegedly copied from.

    We do not know everyday recipes! We can and do fill volumes with things
    about ancient Rome which are a mystery to us -- common things! We have
    no clue why Roman fell apart from the extremely generic "Barbarians broke stuff."





    -- --

    https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/634441176280383488

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  • From reader@21:1/5 to All on Tue Nov 17 20:38:02 2020
    reader wrote:
    When multiple coppies of the same document are known the odds of them being >> in the line of of n original are greatly increased.

    If multiple copies exist and none of them date within 600 years of the >supposed original, that's not true at all.


    Sorry old chap, that is 557.3 years, not 600

    The rest of this "jut so" story is irrelevnt in the extreme for those who
    have experience and actually work in such matters where such documents
    are the staple.

    Besides, we get fresh copies of them daily from the ufo time machines.


    If one only found copies of the declaration of independence it is a
    reasonable conclusion to think they all point to an original of the same
    content.

    You failed to read a word I typed...

    We know where the original is. Washington DC could vanish tomorrow and
    we'd still know that the copies are a copy of an original that was located at >the National Archives. We do not have any of this with ancient "sources."
    The copies appear when & where they do, with almost never so much as a
    hint of whatever source document they were allegedly copied from.

    We do not know everyday recipes! We can and do fill volumes with things >about ancient Rome which are a mystery to us -- common things! We have
    no clue why Roman fell apart from the extremely generic "Barbarians broke >stuff."





    -- --

    https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/634441176280383488

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Md Yusup@21:1/5 to All on Tue Dec 22 08:26:42 2020
    On Friday, November 13, 2020 at 12:05:14 PM UTC+6, Oh so rich & successful JTEM wrote:
    Look. We don't have that much information. We do
    not have a good grasp on the sociopolitical dynamics
    of ancient Rome. All we have is the highly baised
    opinions of modern scholars which are loosely based
    (if based at all) on ancient sources which themselves
    did not survive.

    You read that right.

    Almost none of our ancient Roman sources come to
    us from ancient Romans. Almost all of our records
    are latter day manuscripts. Supposedly they're all copies
    of originals, yes, but few mention those originals, offer
    any provenance what so ever.

    I'll explain.

    You can actually go to Washington DC and view an original
    copy of the Declaration of Independence. And that copy has
    in turn been the basis for many copies of the document.

    Right?

    So you can hold a copy of the U.S. Declaration of Independence
    in your hand that's only a few weeks old but still know exactly
    what it is a copy of -- WHERE the source document was found,
    the one they based the document on.

    Not too many of our versions of ancient books have any clear
    lineage to an original ancient source document.

    "Well, hey, I was in Rome last week, my Uncle Ted had a thousand
    year old copy of Josephus written in his own hand and I made
    this and another copy, so enjoy."

    Never happens.

    What I'm saying is that we don't know. It took us a millennia of
    prodding to figure out their concrete and we had examples of
    the stuff to look at! We're still scratching our heads over how
    they made some of their glass, and we can't nail down common
    recipes! Garum was ubiquitous and we believe we know the
    process but nobody knows the recipe. There are precisely ZERO
    modern products said to be Roman garum, though many
    products which are described as similar...

    Yet, morons state with such certainty that they know why Rome
    fell, that they KNOW all the forces at work, the KNOW how these
    forces interact... THEY KNOW!




    -- --

    https://uapro.tumblr.com/post/634644176738418688/theyd-love-to-see-some-ufoparanormal
    This is a greater pleasure by https://www.fileour.com/adobe-after-effects-cc-download-for-windows/
    So thanks.

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    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Oh so rich & successful JTEM@21:1/5 to reader on Thu Dec 24 12:09:32 2020
    reader wrote:

    Sorry old chap, that is 557.3 years, not 600

    The rest of this "jut so" story is

    You're babbling. Incoherently. In reply to yourself. And *This* is what
    passes for "Rational Discourse" in your book!

    Do you know what provenance is? Any clue what so ever?

    If someone hands you an oil lamp and says "It's from ancient Israel"
    that isn't provenance. And if someone hands you a book and says
    "It's a copy of an original Josephus manuscript" that isn't provenance
    either.

    Like I said, and you were incapable of grasping, even if Washington DC
    were vaporized by an asteroid tomorrow we still have the lineage for
    every copy -- or, as in many cases, "Reproduction" -- of the Constitution.
    We know what they copied. We know where they found it, how it got
    there. For almost every ancient Roman "Source" this is not true. It's not
    true for any Josephus, any Caesar or Tacitus... Pliney the Elder... Younger...

    And I know I say this without your willingness to so much as try to
    understand but, it amuses me. So there.





    -- --

    https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/638414697346023424

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