• A "What-if" from Quora - What would have happened to the USA if Britain

    From a425couple@21:1/5 to All on Mon Oct 4 09:55:45 2021
    XPost: alt.history.what-if

    I read:
    Geoffrey Thorndyke
    Lived in the UK since 1944 September 14

    What would have happened to the USA if Britain had been defeated at the
    Battle of Britain?
    Logic says that the most likely result of the RAF losing the battle
    would be a cessation of hostilities. The Germans could not have invaded,
    they would never have got past the Navy. The RAF would remain in being
    as only 2 Groups were actively opposed to the Luftwaffe during the
    battle. So let us say there was a cease fire and Hitler concentrated on
    Europe, leaving the UK with it’s Empire.

    So that also takes Canada out of the War as well as other Countries in
    the Empire. Whether the UK would have stayed in North Africa to protect
    our access to the Suez canal, no one knows. What the Italians would do
    is also moot. Now as far as I am aware the USA only officially entered
    WW2 when Germany declared War on them after the Japanese attack at Pearl Harbour. If the UK stopped fighting towards the end of 1940 why would
    Germany have declared War on the USA over a year after hostilities
    ceased with the UK ?

    This scenario leaves Germany with Just Russia to defeat, with a much
    larger Luftwaffe, hundreds more experienced aircrew, and many more
    soldiers, guns and materials as it does not have to defend against RAF
    Bomber command.

    Arguably you have a German Empire in Europe, a British Empire in many
    parts of the World and USA fighting Japan. Only without inputs from
    British and European scientists the “Bomb” might have taken longer to complete and the defeat of Japan delayed.

    Logically in this scenario there is no reason why the USA would get
    involved in the conflict in Europe. A very different World in fact.

    (I disagree with Thorndyke. I can not see WSC doing
    a "cessation of hostilities". Then, the much more
    important Battle of the Atlantic, would continue.
    And in late 1941 the USA would continue to get drawn in.
    But then, here are other's opinions:)

    Peter Valentine

    It seems likely that a cessation of hstilities, which is what Hitler
    dreamed of as he never wanted a conflict with Britain, its Commonweath
    and Empire, would have led to trade deals with Germany. They would have
    loved to buy some of our military equipment (tihnk 4-engined heavy
    bombers). A cessation of hostilities would have encouraged such

    This, in turn, would have led to the demise of Russia and thus of communism.

    How that would have shaped the future is anyone’s guess.

    Brythonic Man
    September 15

    Agreed Geoffrey, coupled with the fact that Germany and Britain would
    have the jet engine, which was in operation at the very end of WWII, the
    USA was nowhere near. Germany had rocket technology, the V2 was used
    against Britain but was developing very quickly to become even more threatening.

    Some of the Royal Navy (the largest in the world at the time) might have
    made it to Canada, but most of it would have been taken over by the
    Nazis. There would have been no Mers el Kabir incident, so the all the
    French Navy would have been intact for the Nazis to use as well. Iceland
    would have been occupied by the Germans instead of the British, giving
    them control of a substantial part of the North Atlantic.

    A Pan European Nazi superpower would have emerged and not having to
    worry about Britain and Commonwealth allies, the Soviets would have been
    been defeated by the Germans from the west and to a lesser extent the
    Japanese from the east, particularly bearing in mind that The Arctic
    Convoys delivering much needed armaments to the Soviet Union by the
    Royal Navy would never have taken place.

    British owned countries in Africa, the Far East and also India may
    possibly have continued in some kind of peace deal, but personally I
    believe that would have been highly unlikely as Japan had it's eye on
    India as well as China.

    As you mentioned, the Amerkia Bomber was only on the planning board, but
    with the availability of jet powered fighters by 1944 development of jet powered bombers would not have been far away. Those bombers would have
    most certainly been used from Hitler's plan to use the Azores as a base
    for attack on the American east coast. The oilfields in the Middle East
    would have been under Nazis control, because the German defeat by the
    British and ANZAC forces at El Alamein in 1942 would never have taken place.

    You mentioned that it would probably have taken longer for the Americans
    to develop the Atom bomb without the help of the British, but given that
    the British on thier own would have eventually developed the bomb
    themselves it would have created a further issue for the USA. In all probability the Americans would have been ahead of the British in
    developing the A-bomb, but of course the British scientists would now be working for the Nazis. With the USA still well behind in developing the
    jet engine, there is no way they could have retaliated with nuclear
    bombs as it was more than a 6,000 mile non stop round journey for props,
    so potentially by the late 1940’s the east coast of America could have
    been hit by the A-bomb with the Amerkia Bomber having been upgraded from
    a prop to a jet, plus the threat from the west by the Japanese.

    Thankfully, the British were victorious in 1940 by defeating the
    Luftwaffe and even if they had lost, the Royal Navy would have been a
    major obstacle for the German armed forces to run rampant though the
    British Isles.

    Stephen Phillips
    September 18
    Much depends in this scenario on what happens to British oil. If
    cessation of hostilities led to trading oil with Germany and perhaps
    Japan, then we have a different world indeed, probably no Pearl Harbour
    for instance. No trade in oil would likely have led to further conflict
    down the line. The USSR without logistical support from the UK and US
    would have made the eastern front more uncertain.

    Eloise Hellyer
    September 22
    I agree with everything except the bit about input from European
    scientists. They were Jewish and this is why they fled their homes which
    were occupied by Germany and went to the States. Of course, after the
    war we got Werner con Braun which we wouldn’t have in your scenario, but that’s a different story.

    Martin Hogbin
    23h ago
    Actually, nuclear weapons could have been developed first by Britain or
    Germany or even both working together.

    That axis could have had nuclear weapons and the means to deliver them.

    That would have really changed the world.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich Rostrom@21:1/5 to All on Mon Oct 4 18:31:07 2021
    XPost: alt.history.what-if

    On 10/4/21 11:55 AM, a425couple wrote:
    I read:
    Geoffrey Thorndyke
    Lived in the UK since 1944 September 14

    What would have happened to the USA if Britain had been defeated at the Battle of Britain?
    Logic says that the most likely result of the RAF losing the battle
    would be a cessation of hostilities.

    Neither HItler nor Churchill were being "logical" at this time.

    Germany definitely intended to attempt the invasion of Britain if
    the Luftwaffe gained air supremacy over the Channel. THe attack
    wold almost certainly fail, with significant losses to both the
    German army and the Royal Navy.

    I doubt very much whether either side would want a truce after that.

    Nous sommes dans une pot de chambre, et nous y serons emmerdés.
    --- General Auguste-Alexandre Ducrot at Sedan, 1870.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)