• What If - Britain's King Charles III gets buried in Jerusalem ?

    From a425couple@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 12 11:22:31 2022
    XPost: alt.history.what-if

    interesting read, from:
    https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-716906

    Britain's King Charles III is a problem for the Palestinians - opinion
    The royals’ desire to be buried in Jerusalem demonstrates a longstanding affection for the capital of the Holy Land - known as "Christian Zionism."
    By STEPHEN M. FLATOW Published: SEPTEMBER 12, 2022 04:05
    Updated: SEPTEMBER 12, 2022 08:21Email Twitter Facebook fb-messenger
    KING CHARLES III, as the Prince of Wales, meets with Palestinian
    Authority head Mahmoud Abbas in Bethlehem, 2020. (photo credit: FLASH90)

    The ascent of Prince Charles to the British throne King Charles III is a problem for advocates of the Palestinian Arab cause. The new king’s connection to a key Jewish holy site in eastern Jerusalem could focus
    attention on a subject that the Arabs are anxious to avoid.

    King Charles III’s grandmother, Princess Alice, and her aunt, Grand
    Duchess Elisabeth, are both buried in a small Christian cemetery on the
    Mount of Olives, near the largest Jewish cemetery in the world.

    The Mount of Olives is in that part of the city that the Palestinian
    Authority calls “Arab East Jerusalem.” The PA says that the area should
    be the “capital of Palestine.” According to the PA, Zionists – whether Jews or Christians – have no right to be there. They’re “illegal settlers.”

    The cemetery where the two royals are buried belongs to the Church of
    Mary Magdalene, a Russian Orthodox church and convent that was built at
    the foot of the Mount of Olives in 1886 by Tsar Alexander II. It is
    located directly across the Kidron Valley from the Temple Mount, the
    holiest site in Judaism.

    Princess Alice, who lived in Greece during World War II, sheltered a
    Jewish family from the Nazis and was posthumously honored by Yad Vashem
    as one of the Righteous Among the Nations. Alice, who passed away in
    1969, left instructions to be buried at Mary Magdalene cemetery. Her
    remains were transferred there in 1988.

    PRINCE CHARLES and a Holocaust survivor light a candle at Central Hall Westminster, as his wife, Camilla, looks on. (credit: Courtesy)
    PRINCE CHARLES and a Holocaust survivor light a candle at Central Hall Westminster, as his wife, Camilla, looks on. (credit: Courtesy)
    The British Royals practiced Christian Zionism
    The royals’ desire to be buried in Jerusalem demonstrates a longstanding affection for the capital of the Holy Land, something that reflects what
    we call “Christian Zionism.”

    Whether or not Alice or Elisabeth ever called themselves “Christian Zionists” – and whether or not the new king thinks of himself as such – doesn’t matter. The historical facts speak for themselves. Charles knows
    that his Bible describes the founder of their religion traveling and
    residing in territories with Hebrew, not Arabic, names – because those
    areas were, and are, central parts of the Jewish homeland. If there had
    been a Palestinian Authority in those days, no doubt it would have
    denounced Jesus as a “Zionist settler.”

    As prince, Charles visited the graves of his grandmother, and her aunt,
    when he attended the funeral of Shimon Peres in 2016. Perhaps, in the
    PA’s eyes, that made him an “accessory to Zionist settlement activity.” Interestingly, Charles’s visit to the Mount of Olives was undertaken secretly, without the knowledge of the public or news media, apparently
    for fear of offending the Palestinian Authority.

    It’s easy to see why the PA would have been angry over Prince Charles’s visit to his relatives’ graves. Any focus on the Mount of Olives is a
    public relations disaster for the Palestinians. It reminds the world
    that one of the most important Jewish religious sites in the world is
    situated in eastern Jerusalem – shattering the myth that it’s an
    all-Arab territory that belongs to the Palestinians.

    The PA and its media allies call it “Arab East Jerusalem,” but that’s just a propaganda term. The Jewish people’s roots in eastern Jerusalem
    go back thousands of years, long before any Arab claims.

    THERE’S ANOTHER reason that talking about the Mount of Olives is a
    public relations headache for Arab propagandists. Anybody who takes even
    the briefest glance at the mount’s recent history discovers that when
    the “moderate” Jordanians occupied it from 1949 to 1967, they destroyed thousands of Jewish tombstones, which they used for paving roads and
    building latrines in Jordanian Army barracks.

    That experience reminds everyone how Arab regimes have mistreated Jewish
    holy sites throughout the century – a legacy the PA itself has continued
    to the present day, with its repeated desecrations of the Tomb of Joseph
    in Nablus, and the Tomb of Rachel in Bethlehem. When will the Jordanians
    and the PA pay reparations for all the damage they have done to Jewish religious sites?

    The existence of the Church of Mary Magdalene is yet another PR headache
    for the Palestinians. It was established in 1886 – at a time when no
    Arabs called the area “Palestine” or called themselves “Palestinians.” That is yet another reminder that Palestinian national identity is a
    recent and shallow invention, created not because Palestinians are any different from Jordanians or Syrians, but simply as a weapon against the
    Jews.

    The founders of the Mary Magdalene church would have scoffed at the
    notion that the land on which their church was built, and where the
    remains of Alice and Elisabeth were “settled,” is “occupied Palestinian territory.” They know that the Bible which they revere calls the
    territory the Land of Israel, not “Palestine.” They know that the Bible repeatedly refers to Jerusalem as the capital of the Jews – and that Jerusalem is not even mentioned in the Koran.

    How King Charles III interacts with Israel, and whether or not he visits
    his illustrious family’s graves in Jerusalem, remains to be seen. But
    the facts about why his relatives are buried there, and who the city and
    the country belong to, are part of a historical record that cannot be
    denied.



    The writer is an attorney and the father of Alisa Flatow, who was
    murdered in an Iranian-sponsored Palestinian terrorist attack in 1995.
    He is the author of A Father’s Story: My Fight for Justice Against
    Iranian Terror.

    Tags East Jerusalem Palestinians history Israeli Palestinian Conflict
    mount of olives prince charles British Royals Royal Family King Charles
    The Jerusalem Post Annual Conference | September 12, New York
    Celebrating Nine Decades of Sharing Israel with the World

    comments include:

    Philadelphian
    15 hours ago

    Congratulations to the Jerusalem Post for publishing a decent story for
    once.

    While I understand this to be an opinion piece, I think it's important
    that the article included many facts the Palestinians and anyone else
    cannot dispute when it comes to who the territory actually belongs to.


    Yo-Semite Sam
    14 hours ago

    It belongs to he who can win the war de jour, and, thereafter, keep the
    land, and then win the next war. Keep winning or lose the land. Simple!

    It's all about war. It's all about winning. Might makes right. Or didn't
    you know that?

    Why do you think that nations collectively spend tens of trillions of
    coin on their war machines?

    davefromorange
    9 hours ago

    Well written and factual article. I would challenge the mainstream news
    media outlets to carry this article if they have any integrity.

    Nadav Katz / נדב כץ
    12 hours ago

    P a l e s t i n i a n i s m, like Pan-Arabism and like Islamism, negate
    the very existence of the Jewish people as a people - despite nearly
    4,000 years of its existence - and is committed to obliterate all that
    is Jewish in the national home of the Jewish people.

    Yet, international law - based on historic and moral grounds - defines
    our country, since 1920, "the national home of the Jewish people" where
    Jews may settle and dwell in it at will, and re-constitute Jewish
    sovereignty over it.

    The fact that Palestinianists demonstrate difficulties with the fact
    that world leaders adhere to the historic, moral, and legal rights of
    the Jewish people as a people tells a lot about Palestinianism, and the
    story is ugly!!

    G
    15 hours ago

    Old Roman Empire Maps list the location as Judea prior to the
    destruction of Jerusalem. They renamed it to eliminate the name of the
    Jews from the location in the same way that Carthage was plowed and s
    with salt. This has nothing to do with Jesus and the Mount of Olives
    since Christians were an offspring of Judaism, but primarily spread in
    areas without Jewish education such as Greece and Rome because
    worshiping a man in Judaism is idolatry.

    Lone Stranger X
    11 hours ago

    No doubt if the new King will attempt to visit his grandmother he will
    have more security from the Israeli government than they give us Jews
    who go there.

    HFrank12
    7 hours ago

    Absurd analysis. Charles is a woke progressive. According to UK Guardian (2020): The Prince of Wales has sympathised with the Palestinian people, speaking of the hardships they face and saying he wished them “freedom, justice and equality” in the future. Charles’s words of support – spoken during his first visit to the Palestinian occupied territories. “It
    breaks my heart therefore that we should continue to see so much
    suffering and division. No one arriving in Bethlehem today could miss
    the signs of continued hardship and the situation you face."


    Malone Cooper
    3 hours ago

    All that 'continued hardship, suffering and division'. If it is that bad
    why oh why have 'Palestinians' rejected every offer for their own state
    ? Rejecting the very first offer, a partition of the land in 1947, is
    the sole reason for the plight of 'Palestinians' today. Bad decisions
    have bad consequences.


    Jorge Ginsberg
    7 hours ago

    That is the way someone who wants to be politically correct speaks,
    nothing more than that.

    I remind you that England alone is home to more than 3.5 million Muslims
    whom the king does not wish to anger.

    Do you really believe that King Charles loves the Palestinians? Don't be
    naive .....

    H Katz
    4 hours ago

    the greatest weapon the radical palestinians have and rely on is general worldwide virulent anti semitism

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  • From Dimensional Traveler@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 12 12:05:20 2022
    XPost: alt.history.what-if

    Way outside the remit of these groups, not a historical what-if.

    --
    I've done good in this world. Now I'm tired and just want to be a cranky
    dirty old man.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Horny Goat@21:1/5 to a425couple@hotmail.com on Tue Sep 13 13:52:40 2022
    On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 11:22:31 -0700, a425couple
    <a425couple@hotmail.com> wrote:

    That is the way someone who wants to be politically correct speaks,
    nothing more than that.

    I remind you that England alone is home to more than 3.5 million Muslims
    whom the king does not wish to anger.

    Do you really believe that King Charles loves the Palestinians? Don't be >naive .....

    Charles is hardly a babe in the woods on political matters and I'm
    sure will manage and given there are Muslims amongst the upper ranks
    of the Conservative Party I doubt he'd have any trouble inviting them
    for tea to be instructed on how to avoid any political time bombs with
    the Muslim community (1). As for the Queen, the plan is already set
    for her burial and I would be staggered if she did not have the major
    say in her burial site.

    As for Princess Alice she plays a role with the Queen since her son
    Prince Philip was still in the Royal Navy at the time of their
    engagement and needed a ring for his princess. Alice gave him her
    wedding tiara for the diamond (that became the Queen's engagement
    ring) and the interesting part is that that particular tiara was given
    to her by Nicholas and Alexandra - yup the last Tsar of all the
    Russias.

    So I think we can reasonably guess that the Queen wore a Russian
    diamond for a very long time.

    (1) Just like Barack Obama did when he called the chief Muslim
    chaplain in the US armed forces shortly after he had approved the
    attack on Osama bin Laden to ensure the troops wouldn't do anything to
    outrage Muslims in the disposition of bin Laden's body after his
    death. Obama was said to have said "we wanted to treat him
    respectfully but dead"

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  • From The Horny Goat@21:1/5 to dtravel@sonic.net on Tue Sep 13 13:54:11 2022
    On Mon, 12 Sep 2022 12:05:20 -0700, Dimensional Traveler
    <dtravel@sonic.net> wrote:

    Way outside the remit of these groups, not a historical what-if.

    Very true and not really a what if since the burial of King Charles
    III would create an outrage if done in 2022 since he is very
    definitely not dead.

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  • From John Dallman@21:1/5 to The Horny Goat on Tue Sep 13 22:43:00 2022
    In article <jsq1ih1vh1bogug54hrn86piu7ired28h3@4ax.com>, lcraver@home.ca
    (The Horny Goat) wrote:

    As for the Queen, the plan is already set for her burial and I would
    be staggered if she did not have the major say in her burial site.

    It's been intended to be the King George VI Memorial Chapel since that
    was completed in 1969. It's inside St George's Chapel at Windsor Castle.

    George, Elizabeth and their two daughters were catapulted to the throne
    by the Abdication. Their bonds as a family seem to have been crucial to
    their sense of duty and success. If they wanted to be buried in the same
    place, no-one with a shred of humanity could deny them.

    John

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  • From The Horny Goat@21:1/5 to All on Tue Sep 13 21:37:53 2022
    On Tue, 13 Sep 2022 22:43 +0100 (BST), jgd@cix.co.uk (John Dallman)
    wrote:

    In article <jsq1ih1vh1bogug54hrn86piu7ired28h3@4ax.com>, lcraver@home.ca
    (The Horny Goat) wrote:

    As for the Queen, the plan is already set for her burial and I would
    be staggered if she did not have the major say in her burial site.

    It's been intended to be the King George VI Memorial Chapel since that
    was completed in 1969. It's inside St George's Chapel at Windsor Castle.

    George, Elizabeth and their two daughters were catapulted to the throne
    by the Abdication. Their bonds as a family seem to have been crucial to
    their sense of duty and success. If they wanted to be buried in the same >place, no-one with a shred of humanity could deny them.

    John

    OK - the other thing that surprised me was that it will be at
    Westminster Abbey not St Pauls where most previous royal send-offs
    have been. Again I presume the Queen herself dictated that.

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  • From a425couple@21:1/5 to Dimensional Traveler on Wed Sep 21 09:57:42 2022
    XPost: alt.history.what-if

    On 09/12/2022 12:05 PM, Dimensional Traveler wrote:
    Way outside the remit of these groups, not a historical what-if.


    I had forgotten about that. Hmmm,,,,,

    However, not too long ago Louis Epstein asked.
    "Are we getting to the tag line"

    It is my firm opinion,
    1. that when posts scolding posters,
    2. that when those demanding rules be enforced,

    outnumber topics being discussed,, the end draws near.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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