• Plausibility check: different geographical homes for football codes

    From Chrysi Cat@21:1/5 to All on Fri Nov 12 00:19:20 2021
    XPost: alt.history.what-if

    As some of us might (or might not; my Jill ass may be the nearest thing
    to a jock in here), football season--no matter which set of laws you
    might subscribe to--is near the middle of its run (and I've been
    thinking about this since at *least* the beginning of the season).

    Then the now-familiar crowing about how "the UK have embraced the
    American game!" -- "no they haven't; if they had there'd be a gridiron
    field in every village greater than 1000 population" started ensuing
    about a month after that.

    It got me to thinking: all of the people who founded most of these games
    were of similar genetic stock, and the ancestral game of all of them was
    the town ball game.

    Is there any way that gridiron ball instead originates in the UK? In particular, I'd think that the possible cause would be that the first
    reform to make townball less-deadly might be the imposition of--in some order--a set number of players, and the down-and-distance system. Then eventually, just as happened in most every modern football code, the
    field would get shrunk and it would become possible to score repeatedly
    in order to get beyond that.

    Bonus points if you can come up with a way that North America instead
    embraces the association game, possibly by it being an *American* who
    first commits the etymological fallacy that "the game is called football
    not because it's played ON foot, but because it's supposed to only be
    played WITH the foot".

    I don't really have a suggestion for myself, but if at all possible I
    *would* prefer that the absolute first PoD be footy related rather than
    it being a knock-on effect from, say, the colonial revolution failing?


    --
    Chrysi Cat
    1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
    Transgoddess, quick to anger
    Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From The Horny Goat@21:1/5 to All on Fri Nov 12 08:58:54 2021
    On Fri, 12 Nov 2021 00:19:20 -0700, Chrysi Cat <Chrysicat@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    It got me to thinking: all of the people who founded most of these games
    were of similar genetic stock, and the ancestral game of all of them was
    the town ball game.

    Is there any way that gridiron ball instead originates in the UK? In >particular, I'd think that the possible cause would be that the first
    reform to make townball less-deadly might be the imposition of--in some >order--a set number of players, and the down-and-distance system. Then >eventually, just as happened in most every modern football code, the
    field would get shrunk and it would become possible to score repeatedly
    in order to get beyond that.

    Why not? Rugby after all started at the school that bears its name.
    There's no particular reason it couldn't have started at an American
    school.

    On the other hand one local municipal councillor of English origin
    once told me 'never get rugby and soccer confused - rugby is a
    ruffian's game played by gentlemen while soccer is a gentlemen's game
    played by ruffians' and from that it should be obvious what sport he
    played at the club level well into his 50s and beyond.

    Though in my opinion rugby is a superior game to (American) football
    as it's continuous action with no substitutions which to me puts a
    premium on speed.

    Admittedly I may be a bit prejudiced since I have a second cousin who
    was a top British national some 50 years ago.... https://www.sportspages.com/product/ronnie_lamont_(instonians_ireland_british_lions)_26509

    For myself, I never got the chance to play as my eyesight wasn't up to
    snuff and rugby is not a game friendly to those who wear glasses or
    contacts.

    Canadians have long felt they invented 'North American football' as
    the first recorded game played under rules resembling the present day
    was in 1874 between McGill (Montreal) and Harvard - and was played
    under McGill rules. Like many other things, Americans have adopted
    other peoples' inventions and adapted them and made them their own.

    The Canadian Grey Cup started in 1907 and long predates most cups in
    football like sports including any collegiate or pro cup in the
    US.....

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chrysi Cat@21:1/5 to The Horny Goat on Sat Nov 13 21:23:15 2021
    On 11/12/2021 9:58 AM, The Horny Goat wrote:
    On Fri, 12 Nov 2021 00:19:20 -0700, Chrysi Cat <Chrysicat@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    It got me to thinking: all of the people who founded most of these games
    were of similar genetic stock, and the ancestral game of all of them was
    the town ball game.

    Is there any way that gridiron ball instead originates in the UK? In
    particular, I'd think that the possible cause would be that the first
    reform to make townball less-deadly might be the imposition of--in some
    order--a set number of players, and the down-and-distance system. Then
    eventually, just as happened in most every modern football code, the
    field would get shrunk and it would become possible to score repeatedly
    in order to get beyond that.

    Why not? Rugby after all started at the school that bears its name.
    There's no particular reason it couldn't have started at an American
    school.


    I PROBABLY goofed in my original question. It was likely just as much
    about "does the gridiron game go international instead if the Yanks
    found the Association game" as anything.

    Though when I think about it, maybe it shouldn't?

    It's not as if most of the places to adopt football as a national sport
    were overly friendly on political terms with the British Empire...


    On the other hand one local municipal councillor of English origin
    once told me 'never get rugby and soccer confused - rugby is a
    ruffian's game played by gentlemen while soccer is a gentlemen's game
    played by ruffians' and from that it should be obvious what sport he
    played at the club level well into his 50s and beyond.

    Though in my opinion rugby is a superior game to (American) football
    as it's continuous action with no substitutions which to me puts a
    premium on speed.

    Admittedly I may be a bit prejudiced since I have a second cousin who
    was a top British national some 50 years ago.... https://www.sportspages.com/product/ronnie_lamont_(instonians_ireland_british_lions)_26509

    For myself, I never got the chance to play as my eyesight wasn't up to
    snuff and rugby is not a game friendly to those who wear glasses or
    contacts.

    Canadians have long felt they invented 'North American football' as
    the first recorded game played under rules resembling the present day
    was in 1874 between McGill (Montreal) and Harvard - and was played
    under McGill rules. Like many other things, Americans have adopted
    other peoples' inventions and adapted them and made them their own.

    The Canadian Grey Cup started in 1907 and long predates most cups in
    football like sports including any collegiate or pro cup in the
    US.....



    --
    Chrysi Cat
    1/2 anthrocat, nearly 1/2 anthrofox, all magical
    Transgoddess, quick to anger
    Call me Chrysi or call me Kat, I'll respond to either!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)