• Pedigree Collapse and Reports

    From Joe Makowiec@21:1/5 to All on Mon Aug 17 15:05:55 2020
    Is there some genealogy software out there which will output a report
    listing all the paths between Person X and Person Y? For example, I just
    went through and was able to trace two paths to one of my ancestors. In
    one, I'm the 9th great grandchild; in the other, I'm the 10th. My old go-
    to, The Master Genealogist (TMG) would do this, but the report has gotten broken in recent years. I also have Roots Magic 7 (RM7), but that seems
    to only do the shortest path. I'd appreciate any other suggestions.

    --
    Joe Makowiec
    http://makowiec.org/
    Email: http://makowiec.org/contact/?Joe
    Usenet Improvement Project: http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/

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  • From john@21:1/5 to Joe Makowiec on Mon Aug 17 19:53:47 2020
    On 17/08/2020 17:05, Joe Makowiec wrote:
    Is there some genealogy software out there which will output a
    report listing all the paths between Person X and Person Y? For
    example, I just went through and was able to trace two paths to one
    of my ancestors. In one, I'm the 9th great grandchild; in the other,
    I'm the 10th. My old go- to, The Master Genealogist (TMG) would do
    this, but the report has gotten broken in recent years. I also have
    Roots Magic 7 (RM7), but that seems to only do the shortest path. I'd
    appreciate any other suggestions.


    Although the TMG Report | Relationship Chart option seems to fail if
    there is more than one path and only give the shortest path, my v9.05
    TMG Tools | Relationship Calculator still gives multiple relationships.

    In Tools | Relationship Calculator you can select the
    Relationships and then select Progenitors. So possibly you could
    determine the full relationship in a series of steps? Calculate the intermediate paths from you to the progenitors and from the progenitors
    to your target ancestor using the Relationship Chart to generate the intermediate steps relationship charts?
    (X->J->Y rather than X->Y)

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  • From Joe Makowiec@21:1/5 to Richard Damon on Mon Aug 17 19:02:17 2020
    On 17 Aug 2020 in soc.genealogy.computing, Richard Damon wrote:

    On 8/17/20 1:53 PM, john wrote:

    On 17/08/2020 17:05, Joe Makowiec wrote:
    Is there some genealogy software out there which will output a
    report listing all the paths between Person X and Person Y? For

    In Tools | Relationship Calculator you can select the
    Relationships and then select Progenitors. So possibly you could
    determine the full relationship in a series of steps? Calculate the
    intermediate paths from you to the progenitors and from the
    progenitors to your target ancestor using the Relationship Chart to
    generate the intermediate steps relationship charts?
     (X->J->Y rather than X->Y)

    IF is a pure descent issue, you could also build a focus group of
    people who are descendant of the ancestor and also ancestors of the descendant with a filter, and then make a temporary dataset of that
    group to run a report.

    Thanks, john and Richard.

    I think that's ultimately going to be the answer. I had so hoped that
    there would be at least a semi-automated way to do it. And it gets even
    messier when one starts looking at cousin relationships.

    --
    Joe Makowiec
    http://makowiec.org/
    Email: http://makowiec.org/contact/?Joe
    Usenet Improvement Project: http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/

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  • From Richard Damon@21:1/5 to john on Mon Aug 17 14:17:23 2020
    On 8/17/20 1:53 PM, john wrote:

    On 17/08/2020 17:05, Joe Makowiec wrote:
    Is there some genealogy software out there which will output a
    report listing all the paths between Person X and Person Y? For
    example, I just went through and was able to trace two paths to one
    of my ancestors. In one, I'm the 9th great grandchild; in the other,
    I'm the 10th. My old go- to, The Master Genealogist (TMG) would do
    this, but the report has gotten broken in recent years. I also have
    Roots Magic 7 (RM7), but that seems to only do the shortest path. I'd
     appreciate any other suggestions.


    Although the TMG Report | Relationship Chart option seems to fail if
    there is more than one path and only give the shortest path, my v9.05
    TMG Tools | Relationship Calculator still gives multiple relationships.

    In Tools | Relationship Calculator you can select the
    Relationships and then select Progenitors. So possibly you could
    determine the full relationship in a series of steps? Calculate the intermediate paths from you to the progenitors and from the progenitors
    to your target ancestor using the Relationship Chart to generate the intermediate steps relationship charts?
     (X->J->Y rather than X->Y)

    IF is a pure descent issue, you could also build a focus group of people
    who are descendant of the ancestor and also ancestors of the descendant
    with a filter, and then make a temporary dataset of that group to run a
    report.

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  • From Charlie Hoffpauir@21:1/5 to makowiec@invalid.invalid on Mon Aug 17 18:58:59 2020
    On Mon, 17 Aug 2020 19:02:17 -0000 (UTC), Joe Makowiec <makowiec@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 17 Aug 2020 in soc.genealogy.computing, Richard Damon wrote:

    On 8/17/20 1:53 PM, john wrote:

    On 17/08/2020 17:05, Joe Makowiec wrote:
    Is there some genealogy software out there which will output a
    report listing all the paths between Person X and Person Y? For
    <snipped>
    I think that's ultimately going to be the answer. I had so hoped that
    there would be at least a semi-automated way to do it. And it gets even >messier when one starts looking at cousin relationships.

    Joe,
    Actually, RM does a fairly decent job for cousin relationships. Ask
    for the relationship calculator for two cousins, and you get a list of
    the various relationships, plus the common ancestor(s) for each
    relationship. I often use this report to calculate the Coefficient of Relationship fo a cousin and myself when we have multiple ancestors in
    common. Of course, I have to do the calculation by hand, whereas RM
    could do it easily if they would only add that feature.

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  • From Joe Makowiec@21:1/5 to Charlie Hoffpauir on Tue Aug 18 11:24:32 2020
    On 17 Aug 2020 in soc.genealogy.computing, Charlie Hoffpauir wrote:

    Actually, RM does a fairly decent job for cousin relationships. Ask
    for the relationship calculator for two cousins, and you get a list
    of the various relationships, plus the common ancestor(s) for each relationship. I often use this report to calculate the Coefficient
    of Relationship fo a cousin and myself when we have multiple
    ancestors in common. Of course, I have to do the calculation by
    hand, whereas RM could do it easily if they would only add that
    feature.

    Thanks, Charlie.

    The issue then becomes finding the path to the common ancestors. In
    the relationship chart, Roots Magic 7 (RM) only does the shortest
    route. I just tried a couple of cases - me to my 9th and 10th g
    grandfather; me to someone with whom I have at least 7 cousin
    relationships, the shortest of which is 6th cousin thrice removed.
    That was the only path RM returned on a chart. Both RM and The Master Genealogist (TMG) identified all 7 relationships in the relationship calculator. TMG returns all 7 paths in a chart, but the display of the
    chart is borked.

    Also noted: the relationship calculator missed the 10th g grandfather relationship. One path goes through a great grandmother; the other,
    longer path goes through her husband, my great grandfather. So while
    RM works well for simple cases, it misses some and doesn't offer a way
    to trace more than one path.

    --
    Joe Makowiec
    http://makowiec.org/
    Email: http://makowiec.org/contact/?Joe
    Usenet Improvement Project: http://twovoyagers.com/improve-usenet.org/

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  • From Charlie Hoffpauir@21:1/5 to makowiec@invalid.invalid on Tue Aug 18 10:56:11 2020
    On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 11:24:32 -0000 (UTC), Joe Makowiec <makowiec@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    The issue then becomes finding the path to the common ancestors. In
    the relationship chart, Roots Magic 7 (RM) only does the shortest
    route. I just tried a couple of cases - me to my 9th and 10th g
    grandfather; me to someone with whom I have at least 7 cousin
    relationships, the shortest of which is 6th cousin thrice removed.
    That was the only path RM returned on a chart.

    Yes, RMs charting shows only one path, presumably the shortest.I use
    the Relationship Calculator results to calculate the Coefficient of Relationship, because the value of that coefficient is directly
    related to the theoretical Autosomal DNA results for the two
    individuals, and easily explains Autosomal DNA values much higher than
    would ordinarily be expected for the relationship shown by the
    "shortest path". Here's the results for me and a distant cousin:


    Thomas Weldon Hoffpauir and Charles Richard "Charlie" Hoffpauir

    1. Fourth cousin once removed (common ancestor: Thomas Hoffpauir &
    Marie Charlotte Prillard)
    2. Fourth cousin (common ancestor: Thomas Hoffpauir & Marie Charlotte Prillard)
    3. Fourth cousin once removed (common ancestor: Edward Forman II &
    Nancy Anna Perry)
    4. Fourth cousin once removed (common ancestor: George Faulk &
    Adelaide Hargrave)
    5. Fourth cousin twice removed (common ancestor: John Perry & Penelope
    Perry)
    6. Fourth cousin twice removed (common ancestor: Luke Faulk & Celeste
    Reples)
    7. Fourth cousin (common ancestor: Joseph Ephraim Forman & Mary
    Elizabeth Brown)
    8. Fourth cousin (common ancestor: Pierre Stutes & Amelia Hoffpauir)
    9. Fifth cousin (common ancestor: Edward Forman)
    10. Fifth cousin once removed (common ancestor: Edward Forman)
    11. Fourth cousin once removed (common ancestor: Thomas Hoffpauir &
    Marie Charlotte Prillard)

    Notice that the common ancestor pair of Thomas and Marie Charlotte
    appear three times in the results, indicating three different ways
    they are Thomas' and my common ancestors.

    The obvious limitation of this kind of calculation is that for
    accuracy, I need to have "all" of both Thomas Weldon and my ancestors
    in my database.... so at best my calculation produces an
    approximation.

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  • From Charlie Hoffpauir@21:1/5 to invalid@invalid.com on Tue Aug 18 11:47:16 2020
    On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 10:56:11 -0500, Charlie Hoffpauir
    <invalid@invalid.com> wrote:

    On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 11:24:32 -0000 (UTC), Joe Makowiec ><makowiec@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    The issue then becomes finding the path to the common ancestors. In
    the relationship chart, Roots Magic 7 (RM) only does the shortest
    route. I just tried a couple of cases - me to my 9th and 10th g >>grandfather; me to someone with whom I have at least 7 cousin >>relationships, the shortest of which is 6th cousin thrice removed.
    That was the only path RM returned on a chart.

    Yes, RMs charting shows only one path, presumably the shortest.I use
    the Relationship Calculator results to calculate the Coefficient of >Relationship, because the value of that coefficient is directly
    related to the theoretical Autosomal DNA results for the two
    individuals, and easily explains Autosomal DNA values much higher than
    would ordinarily be expected for the relationship shown by the
    "shortest path". Here's the results for me and a distant cousin:


    Thomas Weldon Hoffpauir and Charles Richard "Charlie" Hoffpauir

    1. Fourth cousin once removed (common ancestor: Thomas Hoffpauir &
    Marie Charlotte Prillard)
    2. Fourth cousin (common ancestor: Thomas Hoffpauir & Marie Charlotte >Prillard)
    3. Fourth cousin once removed (common ancestor: Edward Forman II &
    Nancy Anna Perry)
    4. Fourth cousin once removed (common ancestor: George Faulk &
    Adelaide Hargrave)
    5. Fourth cousin twice removed (common ancestor: John Perry & Penelope
    Perry)
    6. Fourth cousin twice removed (common ancestor: Luke Faulk & Celeste
    Reples)
    7. Fourth cousin (common ancestor: Joseph Ephraim Forman & Mary
    Elizabeth Brown)
    8. Fourth cousin (common ancestor: Pierre Stutes & Amelia Hoffpauir)
    9. Fifth cousin (common ancestor: Edward Forman)
    10. Fifth cousin once removed (common ancestor: Edward Forman)
    11. Fourth cousin once removed (common ancestor: Thomas Hoffpauir &
    Marie Charlotte Prillard)

    Notice that the common ancestor pair of Thomas and Marie Charlotte
    appear three times in the results, indicating three different ways
    they are Thomas' and my common ancestors.

    The obvious limitation of this kind of calculation is that for
    accuracy, I need to have "all" of both Thomas Weldon and my ancestors
    in my database.... so at best my calculation produces an
    approximation.

    I'd buy any genealogy program that would create a chart of this relationship.... until then I have to do it by hand. Here's a link to
    what it looks like on my dropbox: https://www.dropbox.com/s/y2zt6hc381949jm/Relationship%20Chart.pdf?dl=0

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  • From Steve Hayes@21:1/5 to makowiec@invalid.invalid on Wed Aug 19 03:31:22 2020
    On Tue, 18 Aug 2020 11:24:32 -0000 (UTC), Joe Makowiec <makowiec@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 17 Aug 2020 in soc.genealogy.computing, Charlie Hoffpauir wrote:
    The issue then becomes finding the path to the common ancestors. In
    the relationship chart, Roots Magic 7 (RM) only does the shortest
    route. I just tried a couple of cases - me to my 9th and 10th g
    grandfather; me to someone with whom I have at least 7 cousin
    relationships, the shortest of which is 6th cousin thrice removed.
    That was the only path RM returned on a chart. Both RM and The Master >Genealogist (TMG) identified all 7 relationships in the relationship >calculator. TMG returns all 7 paths in a chart, but the display of the
    chart is borked.

    Since RM uses SQLite, perhaps someone could write a supplementary
    program to support just that function?


    --
    Steve Hayes
    Web: http://hayesgreene.wordpress.com/
    http://hayesgreene.blogspot.com
    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/afgen/

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