I've just come across an incredible ancestry claimed for one Martha Harper, the supposed daughter of William Harper and Susan Pickering. Martha was the wife of John Proctor. She has two connections to the Salem Witchcraft Trials through her son Johnand the mother of her grandson's wife, Jane Martin. I haven't had a chance to check it out as I've just now come across it and was wondering if anyone has come across this? To say that I am skeptical of such claims (going back to European aristocracy and,
A terça-feira, 2 de novembro de 2021 à(s) 03:23:26 UTC, pdaw...@gmail.com escreveu:and the mother of her grandson's wife, Jane Martin. I haven't had a chance to check it out as I've just now come across it and was wondering if anyone has come across this? To say that I am skeptical of such claims (going back to European aristocracy and,
I've just come across an incredible ancestry claimed for one Martha Harper, the supposed daughter of William Harper and Susan Pickering. Martha was the wife of John Proctor. She has two connections to the Salem Witchcraft Trials through her son John
Could you, please, tell us what the supposed ancestry is?By that, I mean telling us what the line back to nobility is.
I would say that this is the relevant pageBe careful of this line. It's got some pretty obviously bad genealogy. See for example "Sir William Beauchamp Bart Proctor" - ?? And very skimpy on sources...
https://www.familysearch.org/tree/pedigree/landscape/LR61-G4M
Here's the link:I'll leave it to someone else to wander through this Geni tree to see if there is any possible royal ancestry here. I find the tree format here very hard to use - at least compared to other formats like Family Search and Genealogics.
https://www.geni.com/people/Martha-Proctor/5660075566670047027
On Wednesday, November 3, 2021 at 8:19:44 PM UTC-7, pdaw...@gmail.com wrote:
Here's the link:I'll leave it to someone else to wander through this Geni tree to see if there is any possible royal ancestry here. I find the tree format here very hard to use - at least compared to other formats like Family Search and Genealogics.
https://www.geni.com/people/Martha-Proctor/5660075566670047027
Can Geni provide a family tree with just ancestors of the root person and not all the collateral descendant branches?
Op 04-11-2021 om 04:56 schreef John Higgins:
On Wednesday, November 3, 2021 at 8:19:44 PM UTC-7, pdaw...@gmail.com wrote:
Here's the link:I'll leave it to someone else to wander through this Geni tree to see if there is any possible royal ancestry here. I find the tree format here very hard to use - at least compared to other formats like Family Search and Genealogics.
https://www.geni.com/people/Martha-Proctor/5660075566670047027
Can Geni provide a family tree with just ancestors of the root person and not all the collateral descendant branches?
Not that I know, but when you pin a person, you can let Geni figure out any relationship, like this one:
Martha Proctor
→
William Harper
her father
→
Cecilia "Cecily" Harpur - Collier
his mother
→
Joyce Collier
her mother
→
Thomas Skrymsher (Scrimshire)
her father
→
Alice Skrymsher
his mother
→
Thomas Widdrington
her father
→
Elizabet Widdrington
his mother
→
Sir Thomas Grey, Kt., of Werke and Heaton
her father
→
Joan (Jane) de Mowbray
his mother
→
Elizabeth de Segrave, Baroness de Mowbray
her mother
→
Margaret, Duchess of Norfolk
her mother
→
Thomas of Brotherton, 1st Earl of Norfolk
her father
→
Edward I "Longshanks", King of England
You are missing a generation
Elizabeth (Grey) Widdrington was the daughter of
Thomas /Grey/ of Heton and Warke; Knt
d 5 Aug 1415 executed; North Gate, Southampton, Hampshire, England
by his wife Alice de /Neville/
This Thomas was the son of
Thomas de /Grey/ of Berwick and Chillingham; Knt
"aged 10" 1369
by his wife
Joan (aka Catherine) de /Mowbray/
living in 1402
Op 04-11-2021 om 19:35 schreef Will Johnson:It seems that you cannot read the full profiles in Geni (including sources if there re any) unless you're a paid-up member of Geni. Understandable but frustrating.
You are missing a generation
Elizabeth (Grey) Widdrington was the daughter of
Thomas /Grey/ of Heton and Warke; Knt
d 5 Aug 1415 executed; North Gate, Southampton, Hampshire, England
by his wife Alice de /Neville/
This Thomas was the son of
Thomas de /Grey/ of Berwick and Chillingham; Knt
"aged 10" 1369
by his wife
Joan (aka Catherine) de /Mowbray/
living in 1402
I'm not. These persons are all there, but you need to take into account that Geni often displays women by their married name, if they were entered that way.
This is something that I really don't like, but on Geni it's the reality that I have to live with. It's rather confusing, I know, because it cause Elizabeth Grey to be displayed as Elizabet Widdrington.
So much for the American way ...
cheers,
Enno
It seems that you cannot read the full profiles in Geni (including sources if there re any) unless you're a paid-up member of Geni. Understandable but frustrating.
Let me re-state the questionable part of the descent in the more customary format, using what appears to be Geni's idea of the line - and using maiden names instead of married names for the women:
1. Elizabeth Grey, m. Sir Roger Widdrington
2. Thomas Widdrington, m.
3. Alice Widdrington, m. William Skrymsher
4. Thomas Skrymsher, m. Alice "Skrymsher" [no maiden name given]
5. Joyce Skrymsher/Scrimshire, m. Sir Robert Terrell Colyer (Collier), of Darlaston
6. Cecilia Collier, m. Thomas Harper, Sr.
7. William Harper, m. Susan "Harper" [no maiden name given - perhaps Pickering?]
8. Martha Harper; m. Robert Proctor
Op 05-11-2021 om 19:28 schreef John Higgins:profiles connected to you in any way.
It seems that you cannot read the full profiles in Geni (including sources if there re any) unless you're a paid-up member of Geni. Understandable but frustrating.And not true. I've been a member since years, and currently have a basic account (free). And although membership has its priveleges, you can do almost everything when you're invited by a member to work together. And once invited, you can edit all
Thanks for suggesting a basic account. I did sign up for one and used it to look at Thomas Widdrington. As you say, the only real "source" given for Thomas Widdrington is the 1563-64 visitation of Yorkshire, which says that Thomas died young andLet me re-state the questionable part of the descent in the more customary format, using what appears to be Geni's idea of the line - and using maiden names instead of married names for the women:
1. Elizabeth Grey, m. Sir Roger WiddringtonHere's his profile
2. Thomas Widdrington, m.
https://www.geni.com/people/Thomas-Widdrington/6000000007605666478
for which you can see all details, if you get yourself a basic account.
There are 4 sources attached, but two are fake, meaning that they refer to profiles on My Heritage, leaving 1 reference to the visitation of Yorkshire. The other one is a picture.
The visitations don't mention a spouse or children, so that part of his profile is probably wrong.
3. Alice Widdrington, m. William Skrymsherhttps://www.geni.com/people/Alice-Skrymsher/6000000010153897503
No source whatsoever.
4. Thomas Skrymsher, m. Alice "Skrymsher" [no maiden name given]I didn't check these, but in case you create an account, here's Martha:
5. Joyce Skrymsher/Scrimshire, m. Sir Robert Terrell Colyer (Collier), of Darlaston
6. Cecilia Collier, m. Thomas Harper, Sr.
7. William Harper, m. Susan "Harper" [no maiden name given - perhaps Pickering?]
8. Martha Harper; m. Robert Proctor
https://www.geni.com/people/Martha-Proctor/5660075566670047027
Note that you can find about everyone by Googling their name with site:geni.com
HTH,
Enno
Let me re-state the questionable part of the descent in the more customary format, using what appears to be Geni's idea of the line - and using maiden names instead of married names for the women:through 8.
1. Elizabeth Grey, m. Sir Roger Widdrington
2. Thomas Widdrington, m.
3. Alice Widdrington, m. William Skrymsher
4. Thomas Skrymsher, m. Alice "Skrymsher" [no maiden name given]
5. Joyce Skrymsher/Scrimshire, m. Sir Robert Terrell Colyer (Collier), of Darlaston
6. Cecilia Collier, m. Thomas Harper, Sr.
7. William Harper, m. Susan "Harper" [no maiden name given - perhaps Pickering?]
8. Martha Harper; m. Robert Proctor
From the sources I have available, I show that Thomas Widdrngton d. sp. Although I can find sources for the families in 3 through 5, the sources do not support the persons indicated to be in those families. I know nothing about generations 6
Thanks for suggesting a basic account. I did sign up for one and used it to look at Thomas Widdrington. As you say, the only real "source" given for Thomas Widdrington is the 1563-64 visitation of Yorkshire, which says that Thomas died young andwithout issue. I checked a few other profiles and and found the only "sources' to be links to My Heritage or Genealogie Online, which I did not pursue.
Can anyone provide information about the proper parents for Alice Widdrington? Geni does not allow me to disconnect her from Thomas, unless I provide other parents before disconnecting. There's a weird rule that you can't break the tree.
I have not researched the Skrymsher family seated at Norbury, Cheshire any earlier than this Thomas Skrymsher (d. 1551), father of Joyce (Skrymsher) Colyer. But read all of Mark's posts in his thread, as they refer to various pedigrees of thisSkrymsher family which have been published. I do not know of any evidence that says the mother of this Thomas Skrymsher (d. 1551) was a Widdrington, a Northumberland gentry family which, though it did intermarry with Yorkshire gentry, did not intermarry
That is a weird rule, Enno. And an unfortunate one. Earlier this year on this newsgroup, Mark (mark66j) made a series of posts in a thread entitled 'Skrymsher of Muskham and North Deighton'. In it, he abstracts the will of Thomas Skrymsher of Norbury (buried 12 Sept 1551), dated 26 January 1550/1, proved 12 February 1551/2:
"I, Thomas Skrymsher of Norbury, Staffordshire, esquire, somewhat sick in body - to be buried in the chancel at Norbury - ... - to my daughter Colyer, £20 for the preferment of her little daughter"
https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/IRTcNuwg4yE/m/UjZnwpjqBgAJ
I have not researched the Skrymsher family seated at Norbury, Cheshire any earlier than this Thomas Skrymsher (d. 1551), father of Joyce (Skrymsher) Colyer. But read all of Mark's posts in his thread, as they refer to various pedigrees of thisSkrymsher family which have been published. I do not know of any evidence that says the mother of this Thomas Skrymsher (d. 1551) was a Widdrington, a Northumberland gentry family which, though it did intermarry with Yorkshire gentry, did not intermarry
... I found a tree with this Thomas, on Genalogie Online:
https://www.genealogieonline.nl/en/house-family/P919.php
But as usual, this one only has another tree as its source, so I can't verify anything.
This one suggests that Alice Widdrington is the same as Elizabeth Starkey.
| Sysop: | Keyop |
|---|---|
| Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
| Users: | 293 |
| Nodes: | 16 (2 / 14) |
| Uptime: | 227:31:06 |
| Calls: | 6,624 |
| Calls today: | 6 |
| Files: | 12,171 |
| Messages: | 5,318,856 |