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  • Jacquetta (Ellys) Digby and her sister Jillian (Ellys) Fielding

    From Johnny Brananas@21:1/5 to All on Wed Oct 27 08:07:33 2021
    Jacquetta (Ellys), wife of Everard Digby, has numerous descendants, including Americans Simon Lynde of Boston and John Umphreville / Humphreville of New Haven.

    Mostly, we are told vaguely she was the daughter of "[Sir ?] John Ellys of Devonshire."

    I notice that the 1619 Warwickshire Visitation, under Fielding [one of whom married Jacquetta's apparent sister and coheiress Jillian], shows this John Elys of Devonshire with a wife "Elianor Da. of Sr William Russell of Hertfordsh."

    https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_visitation_of_the_county_of_Warwick/4_sUAAAAQAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=piers+elys+digbye+feldinge&pg=PA11&printsec=frontcover

    Can anyone elaborate on this family (Ellys/ Russall)? I notice the discussion below seems to find the tombstone heraldry problematic.

    https://www.google.com/books/edition/Host_bibliographic_record_for_boundwith/-ZNpAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=everard+jacqueta+digbie&pg=PA68&printsec=frontcover

    Many sources say Everard Fielding's wife Julis / Jillian was a Russell, seemingly leaving out the Ellis connection altogether.

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  • From taf@21:1/5 to wjhons...@gmail.com on Wed Oct 27 21:04:47 2021
    On Wednesday, October 27, 2021 at 8:33:53 PM UTC-7, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:

    Well I can say that Julian (Ellis) Fielding outlived her husband Everard, as she
    is given money etc in his will dated 1515

    Just to be incredibly pedantic, this means she was living at the time he wrote his will, not necessarily that she outlived him.

    taf

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  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to Will Johnson on Wed Oct 27 20:42:19 2021
    On Wednesday, October 27, 2021 at 8:33:53 PM UTC-7, Will Johnson wrote:

    Well I can say that Julian (Ellis) Fielding outlived her husband Everard, as she is given money etc in his will dated 1515

    And here is a document in which the two alleged brothers-in-law are named jointly

    https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/4c1f06f8-24cd-42e0-a06a-dd4574db9173

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  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to ravinma...@yahoo.com on Wed Oct 27 20:33:51 2021
    On Wednesday, October 27, 2021 at 8:07:35 AM UTC-7, ravinma...@yahoo.com wrote:
    Jacquetta (Ellys), wife of Everard Digby, has numerous descendants, including Americans Simon Lynde of Boston and John Umphreville / Humphreville of New Haven.

    Mostly, we are told vaguely she was the daughter of "[Sir ?] John Ellys of Devonshire."

    I notice that the 1619 Warwickshire Visitation, under Fielding [one of whom married Jacquetta's apparent sister and coheiress Jillian], shows this John Elys of Devonshire with a wife "Elianor Da. of Sr William Russell of Hertfordsh."

    https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_visitation_of_the_county_of_Warwick/4_sUAAAAQAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=piers+elys+digbye+feldinge&pg=PA11&printsec=frontcover

    Can anyone elaborate on this family (Ellys/ Russall)? I notice the discussion below seems to find the tombstone heraldry problematic.

    https://www.google.com/books/edition/Host_bibliographic_record_for_boundwith/-ZNpAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=everard+jacqueta+digbie&pg=PA68&printsec=frontcover

    Many sources say Everard Fielding's wife Julis / Jillian was a Russell, seemingly leaving out the Ellis connection altogether.

    Well I can say that Julian (Ellis) Fielding outlived her husband Everard, as she is given money etc in his will dated 1515

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From John Higgins@21:1/5 to taf on Thu Oct 28 11:56:20 2021
    On Wednesday, October 27, 2021 at 9:04:49 PM UTC-7, taf wrote:
    On Wednesday, October 27, 2021 at 8:33:53 PM UTC-7, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:

    Well I can say that Julian (Ellis) Fielding outlived her husband Everard, as she
    is given money etc in his will dated 1515
    Just to be incredibly pedantic, this means she was living at the time he wrote his will, not necessarily that she outlived him.

    taf

    I had the same thought, but Will apparently didn't know that (per Nichols, Leics, 4:287-288) Sir Everard Feilding's will was dated 19 April 1515 and proved 30 April 1515. So, it's a fair bet that his wife (who is called "Jylys" by Nichols - !!) did in
    fact survive her husband in this case.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From taf@21:1/5 to jhigg...@yahoo.com on Thu Oct 28 12:30:42 2021
    On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 11:56:21 AM UTC-7, jhigg...@yahoo.com wrote:
    On Wednesday, October 27, 2021 at 9:04:49 PM UTC-7, taf wrote:
    On Wednesday, October 27, 2021 at 8:33:53 PM UTC-7, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:

    Well I can say that Julian (Ellis) Fielding outlived her husband Everard, as she
    is given money etc in his will dated 1515
    Just to be incredibly pedantic, this means she was living at the time he wrote his
    will, not necessarily that she outlived him.

    I had the same thought, but Will apparently didn't know that (per Nichols, Leics,
    4:287-288) Sir Everard Feilding's will was dated 19 April 1515 and proved 30 April 1515. So, it's a fair bet that his wife (who is called "Jylys" by Nichols - !!)
    did in fact survive her husband in this case.

    Indeed, likely. I can recall coming across a few instances where the wife suddenly died while the husband was in his final days, but they are by far the exception.

    taf

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  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to All on Thu Oct 28 14:31:56 2021
    https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=pst.000032377101&view=1up&seq=387&skin=2021&size=150&q1=everard

    What exactly is he calling the wife here? "Yelling Russell"??

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From taf@21:1/5 to wjhons...@gmail.com on Thu Oct 28 16:55:52 2021
    On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 2:31:57 PM UTC-7, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
    https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=pst.000032377101&view=1up&seq=387&skin=2021&size=150&q1=everard

    What exactly is he calling the wife here? "Yelling Russell"??

    The poor reproduction makes it unclear, but to me it looks like 'Iellus' was intended.

    taf

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From taf@21:1/5 to taf on Thu Oct 28 17:10:02 2021
    On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 4:55:53 PM UTC-7, taf wrote:
    On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 2:31:57 PM UTC-7, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
    https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=pst.000032377101&view=1up&seq=387&skin=2021&size=150&q1=everard

    What exactly is he calling the wife here? "Yelling Russell"??
    The poor reproduction makes it unclear, but to me it looks like 'Iellus' was intended.

    On second thought, the penultimate letter is the same as in her surname and appears the same as twice in Feyldyng in the panel above, so I am going with 'Iellys Russeyll'.

    taf

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  • From Johnny Brananas@21:1/5 to taf on Fri Oct 29 08:23:56 2021
    On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 8:10:03 PM UTC-4, taf wrote:
    On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 4:55:53 PM UTC-7, taf wrote:
    On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 2:31:57 PM UTC-7, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
    https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=pst.000032377101&view=1up&seq=387&skin=2021&size=150&q1=everard

    What exactly is he calling the wife here? "Yelling Russell"??
    The poor reproduction makes it unclear, but to me it looks like 'Iellus' was intended.
    On second thought, the penultimate letter is the same as in her surname and appears the same as twice in Feyldyng in the panel above, so I am going with 'Iellys Russeyll'.

    taf

    Perhaps her first name was really Ellys, an odd first name with attendant difficulties in spelling. Ellys Russell ... maybe not really a sister of Jacquetta Ellys?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From taf@21:1/5 to jhigg...@yahoo.com on Fri Oct 29 11:48:54 2021
    On Thursday, October 28, 2021 at 11:56:21 AM UTC-7, jhigg...@yahoo.com wrote:

    I had the same thought, but Will apparently didn't know that (per Nichols, Leics, 4:287-288)
    Sir Everard Feilding's will was dated 19 April 1515 and proved 30 April 1515. So, it's a fair
    bet that his wife (who is called "Jylys" by Nichols - !!) did in fact survive her husband in this
    case.

    Or rather than betting, . . . . From an account of burials in the parish churches of Northamptonshire:

    NORTHAMPTON: BLACK FRIARS or DOMINICANS. Our Lady.
    To be buried “afore the aulter of our blessed Lady in the Blakefryers”: Sir Everard Fielding, kt. 1515 (P.C.C. 5, Holder). “To be buried in the churche of the Blake frears byfor the ymage of our Lady in the tombe of my husband ” : Dame Gyllys
    Fielding, 1529 (D. 68).

    'D. 68' refers to vol. D, Archdeaconry of Northampton probate registry.

    https://books.google.com/books?id=QKM8AAAAIAAJ&pg=PA446

    taf

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From taf@21:1/5 to ravinma...@yahoo.com on Fri Oct 29 15:27:28 2021
    On Friday, October 29, 2021 at 8:23:57 AM UTC-7, ravinma...@yahoo.com wrote:

    Perhaps her first name was really Ellys, an odd first name with attendant difficulties in
    spelling. Ellys Russell ... maybe not really a sister of Jacquetta Ellys?

    Intriguing possibility, but at least with regard to the given name, I am finding a half dozen additional women at the time named Gyllys/Gylys, so that seems the most likely 'real name '.

    taf

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Johnny Brananas@21:1/5 to taf on Fri Oct 29 15:42:48 2021
    On Friday, October 29, 2021 at 6:27:29 PM UTC-4, taf wrote:
    On Friday, October 29, 2021 at 8:23:57 AM UTC-7, ravinma...@yahoo.com wrote:

    Perhaps her first name was really Ellys, an odd first name with attendant difficulties in
    spelling. Ellys Russell ... maybe not really a sister of Jacquetta Ellys?
    Intriguing possibility, but at least with regard to the given name, I am finding a half dozen additional women at the time named Gyllys/Gylys, so that seems the most likely 'real name '.

    taf

    Maybe like the daughter of the 4th Earl of Angus ... "Egidia or Giles."

    https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Scots_Peerage/-lZmAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&bsq=giles

    (There are other instances in _Scots Peerage_ of women called "Giles.")

    So maybe there was a sort of foreign air about the name (Frenchified or Scottish). A little more unusual than just plain Jill or Gillian.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)