Greetings all...to fit with the know chronology.
Does anyone have any information on the family and wives of William Sidney who was MP for Sussex in 1429 and 1433 and died in 1449. He was buried at Cranley, Surrey.
I am descended from his daughter Ann who married John Michelgrove (d. 1459) of Michelgrove in Clapham, Sussex. I think Ann Sidney was born mid to late 1430's and she later married an Apsley after her first husband died.
William apparenty had 3 wives or possibly only two according to some sources. His wives seem to be Cecily Michell, Elizabeth (or Isabel) St. John and finally Thomasine Lunsford nee Barrington. I think Elizabeth St. John is my Ann's mother as this seems
But who is Isabel or Elizabeth St. John? One source has her as a daughter of Lord St. John but I can find no evidence of this in Complete Peerage as the Last Lord St. John at the appropriate time was a Poynings.
Any help will be appreciated.
Brenden (Gold Coast, Qld)
Here are my notes for John Michelgrove III d1459. As to William Sidney of Kingsham, he is a mystery [to me].ultimately ended up in the hands of the heirs of John Tavener, to wit Joan Wheghelton alias Whelton, and Margaret Scarddevyle. This Joan Whelton had married the father of John Michelgrove III.
The Sidney family was said to hold the manor of Kingsham, and thru the marriage of Mary/Anne Sidney this manor was brought to the family of Michelgrove then Shelley. HOWEVER, this manor had sometime earlier been divested by the Sidney family and had
It is said her grandson John Michelgrove had married Anne/Mary Sidney. [See memorial of their daughter Elizabeth Michelgrove aka Shelley].
NOTES
John Michelgrove III 1413- 1459 and Joan ?- after 1459
John Michelgrove III was born around 1413. An inquisition was taken at Chichester in 1438 after the death of his mother Joan Michelgrove formerly the wife of John Michelgrove II. John Michelgrove III was said to be 25 years on the day of theinquisition was taken and was said to be heir to both of them.
In 1441 John Michelgrove, as patron presented two chaplains for the chapel at St. Giles, Wotton. He was evidently a man of standing as he was given a number of commissions in the county. In 1446 he was appointed with others to distribute an allowanceof tax to poor towns desolate or greatly overcharged as a result of the civil wars. In 1456 he was commissioned to survey the walls and ditches in the county; and to inquire into the escape of a prisoner from Chichester goal. In 1457 he was granted a
John Michelgrove III died on 27 January 1458/9 [27 Jan 1459 n.s.]. His son and heir was John Michelgrove IV then aged 22 years, who died shortly thereafter. The inquisitions taken on the deaths on both of these two, in 1459 and 1461 show almostidentical land holdings. They both refer to holdings at Bradbrigge (Broadbridge) in Bosham, by service of rendering one white chicken whenever the King and his heirs ride by the land.
John Michelgrove III also married a Joan who was still living at the latter's death. The Escheator for Sussex made in 1460 an assignment of dower to Joan the wife said John Michelgrove III of a third part of Wotton for the term of her natural life. Thesurname of his wife is not certain. Some say her surname was Shoyerwell???[but no sources are given].
Note: There were two couples John and Joan Michelgrove, one John Michelgrove III and Joan who died after 1460; and his parents John Michelgrove II and Joan who died in 1438, which has lead to some spurious genealogies.
Paul
Sunshine Coast, Qld
Here are my notes on his songives the age of his son and heir, John the younger as 22 years and 11 months on 22 April 1459. The inquisitions taken on the deaths of these two, in 1459 and 1461 show almost identical land holdings. In Kent these were the manor of Fauconherst with the
Here are my notes on the son.
JOHN MICHELGROVE IV was born in March 1436, probably in either Sussex or Kent, to John Michelgrove (1413-1459) and Joan. It is said he apparently married Mary/Anne? Sidney about 1450 of Kent, England.
John Michelgrove was a young man of 23 years when he died on 21 November 1459, only ten months after the death of his father John Michelgrove, esquire the elder. The later died on 27 January 1458/9 [27 Jan 1459 n.s.] and his inquisition post mortem
The main difference between the land holdings of the father and son is that the son held only two parts of Fauconherst and Wotton. At the the time of his fathers inquisition in 1458/9 the Escheator for Sussex made an assignment of dower to Joan wife ofthe late John Michelgrove III of a third part of Wotton for the term of her natural life. John the younger is referred to as son and heir of John Senior in the assignment, but not specifically of Joan the widow.
It is not known where he was born or died, but it is believed he resided at Michelgrove House, Sussex.England, age 50 [further sources needed].
MARY/ANNE? SIDNEY, his apparent wife, was born about 1428 of Kent, England, to William Sydney of Kingsham (1390-1449) and Cecily Michell (1390-1447.) She married John Michelgrove about 1450 of Sussex, England. Mary Sidney passed away about 1478,
However, it should be noted that the Michelgroves had acquired by 1414 a half share of the manor of Kingsham through their grandmother Joan Whegleton, who apparently was a descendant and heir of the Sydneys. The other half was held by her sisterMargaret Scardevyle. But by 1428 William Sydney was said to possess a 1/3 share of the manor. John Michelgrove III father of the current John acted as a third party to the conveyance of this Manor to William Sydney and his heir males by Isabel St. John
John junior’s SOLE daughter and heir was Elizabeth Michelgrove who was born 28 March 1460 some 3 months after her father died.and Spottiswoode, 18991920.v5 p157
References
Great Britain. Public Record Office, and H. C. Maxwell Lyte. Inquisitions And Assessments Relating to Feudal Aids: With Other Analogous Documents Preserved In the Public Record Office. A.D. 1284-1431. London: Printed for H. M. Stationery off., by Eyre
"Sussex Fines: 21." 25 Henry VI https://www.british-history.ac.uk/feet-of-fines-sussex/vol3/pp255-260#h3-0003. Accessed 20 Oct. 2021.
"#254 - Calendar of the Fine rolls preserved in the Public ... v.19 1452-1461.." Full View https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293024017919&view=1up&seq=254&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#610 - Calendar of the patent rolls preserved in the Public ... 1452-1461 Henry VI v.6. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015031079547&view=1up&seq=610&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"Catalogue description Michelgrove, John Kent, Sussex." Discovery https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C6544445. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.baptism at Ernle on that day .
"#107 - Calendar of the patent rolls. 1461-1467. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293027026339&view=1up&seq=107&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#294 - Calendar of the Fine rolls preserved in the Public ... v.19 1452-1461. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293024017919&view=1up&seq=294&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#28 - Proofs of age of Sussex families, temp. Edw. II to Edw. IV.." Full View https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.hx1fkv&view=1up&seq=28&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 16 Oct. 2021.
Notes
MICHELGROVE . - Proof of the age of ELIZABETH , daughter and heir of John MICHELGROVE , Taken at Steyning , 29th March , 15 Edw . IV . ( 1475 ) .
John Wolff deposes that the said Elizabeth is upwards of fourteen years old , for she was born at Ernle , on March 28th , 39 Hen . VI . ( 1461 ) ; and that Elizabeth , wife of Thomas Taweke , Esq . , one of her godmothers , told him she had been at her
John Remys deposes that she is fourteen years old , because on the day abovesaid he met John Ernle , her godfather , going to Ernle church to her baptism .was buried at Clapham .
John Hunt recollects the day , because he rode with Joan Ernle , the other godmother , to Ernle church on that day to the baptism .
John Broker — because the godfather and godmothers , and many other persons , came into his house on that day , directly after the baptism of the said Elizabeth , to eat and to drink , and they told him of it .
Richard Millward — because on that day John Ernle , the godfather , met him and told him of the baptism .
John Ederuhem because the horses of John Ernle , the god father , stood at his house on that day , and after the baptism he told him he was the godfather .
William Atte Lee because he was in Ernle church on that day to hear mass . Richard French - - because in going to the church to see the baptism , he fell with his right leg against a ladder , in the parish of Ernle , and broke his leg , which he shall never forget .
William Clement – because the day was very windy , and part of his house was unroofed by the wind .
Nicholas Shepherd , John Mansell , and John Grey - because on that day they met a woman named Isabella Tryse , who was the midwife at the birth of the said Elizabeth , and she told them of her birth and baptism .
Robert Comber and John Duke because they met Thomas Elyot , the chaplain of Ernle , who told them he had baptised the said Elizabeth , in Ernle church on that day . 3
1 The writ was sued out by Sir John and the inquisition was held the day after Shelley , whom she had already , though so she was fourteen ; her husband lost no young , married . She ob . 30th June , 1513 , time therefore in acquiring her or her and
3 The writ was dated 8th Nov . 1474 , 3 Inq . 15 Edw . IV . No . 66 ..Shermanbury also settled on said William and Alice. Manor of Hoope in Rudgwick settled 16 Hen. VIII. on himself for life and afterwards on Richard Shelley and Mary his wife. Lands called "Lymeborn" in Fittleworth,"Wayhurst" in Rudgwick, "la Lee" in
https://www.sussexrecordsociety.org/olb/srs014/
Citation
Sussex Record Society Volume 14 page 201.
Notes
JOHN SHELLEY,
esq.
Vol. 46, No. 14.
Steyning, 29 June 19 Hen. VIII. Died 3 Jan. 18 Hen. VIII.
Heir, son William Shelley, the Judge, aged 48 and more.
Lands. Manor of Applesham, advowson of and lands in Combes settled 26 Sept. 18 Hen. VIII. on Alice, wife of William Shelley his son and heir, remainder to William S. and his heirs. Moiety of manor and advowson of Denton in Denton and "Sakam" in
ELIZABETH, widow of JOHN SHELLEY, esq., and daughter and heir of John Michelgrove, otherwise called John Fawkenor, esq. Vol. 46, No. 15.chapel of Wootton, and lands in Patching and Heene, lands called "Wantley" in Sullington. So seized she married John Shelley, and they 10 July 3 Hen. VIII. on the marriage of their son William S. with Alice, one of the sisters and heirs apparent of
Steyning, 29 June 19 Hen. VIII. Died 30 July 5 Hen. VIII.
Heir, son William Shelley, now one of the Justices of the King's Bench, and aged 48 and more.
Lands called " Michelgrove " and other lands in Clapham, " Bulshams " in Yapton, lands in Barnham, manor of Benstede, lands in Fittleworth, Petworth, Stopham, Pulborough, Cbichester, Funtingdon, Bosham, Wootton near Fakington. and advowson of the
On Sunday, 24 October 2021 at 01:34:07 UTC+2, macken...@gmail.com wrote:gives the age of his son and heir, John the younger as 22 years and 11 months on 22 April 1459. The inquisitions taken on the deaths of these two, in 1459 and 1461 show almost identical land holdings. In Kent these were the manor of Fauconherst with the
Here are my notes on his son
Here are my notes on the son.
JOHN MICHELGROVE IV was born in March 1436, probably in either Sussex or Kent, to John Michelgrove (1413-1459) and Joan. It is said he apparently married Mary/Anne? Sidney about 1450 of Kent, England.
John Michelgrove was a young man of 23 years when he died on 21 November 1459, only ten months after the death of his father John Michelgrove, esquire the elder. The later died on 27 January 1458/9 [27 Jan 1459 n.s.] and his inquisition post mortem
of the late John Michelgrove III of a third part of Wotton for the term of her natural life. John the younger is referred to as son and heir of John Senior in the assignment, but not specifically of Joan the widow.The main difference between the land holdings of the father and son is that the son held only two parts of Fauconherst and Wotton. At the the time of his fathers inquisition in 1458/9 the Escheator for Sussex made an assignment of dower to Joan wife
England, age 50 [further sources needed].It is not known where he was born or died, but it is believed he resided at Michelgrove House, Sussex.
MARY/ANNE? SIDNEY, his apparent wife, was born about 1428 of Kent, England, to William Sydney of Kingsham (1390-1449) and Cecily Michell (1390-1447.) She married John Michelgrove about 1450 of Sussex, England. Mary Sidney passed away about 1478,
Margaret Scardevyle. But by 1428 William Sydney was said to possess a 1/3 share of the manor. John Michelgrove III father of the current John acted as a third party to the conveyance of this Manor to William Sydney and his heir males by Isabel St. JohnHowever, it should be noted that the Michelgroves had acquired by 1414 a half share of the manor of Kingsham through their grandmother Joan Whegleton, who apparently was a descendant and heir of the Sydneys. The other half was held by her sister
Eyre and Spottiswoode, 18991920.v5 p157John junior’s SOLE daughter and heir was Elizabeth Michelgrove who was born 28 March 1460 some 3 months after her father died.
References
Great Britain. Public Record Office, and H. C. Maxwell Lyte. Inquisitions And Assessments Relating to Feudal Aids: With Other Analogous Documents Preserved In the Public Record Office. A.D. 1284-1431. London: Printed for H. M. Stationery off., by
2021."Sussex Fines: 21." 25 Henry VI https://www.british-history.ac.uk/feet-of-fines-sussex/vol3/pp255-260#h3-0003. Accessed 20 Oct. 2021.
"#254 - Calendar of the Fine rolls preserved in the Public ... v.19 1452-1461.." Full View https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293024017919&view=1up&seq=254&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#610 - Calendar of the patent rolls preserved in the Public ... 1452-1461 Henry VI v.6. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015031079547&view=1up&seq=610&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct.
her baptism at Ernle on that day ."Catalogue description Michelgrove, John Kent, Sussex." Discovery https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C6544445. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#107 - Calendar of the patent rolls. 1461-1467. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293027026339&view=1up&seq=107&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#294 - Calendar of the Fine rolls preserved in the Public ... v.19 1452-1461. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293024017919&view=1up&seq=294&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#28 - Proofs of age of Sussex families, temp. Edw. II to Edw. IV.." Full View https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.hx1fkv&view=1up&seq=28&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 16 Oct. 2021.
Notes
MICHELGROVE . - Proof of the age of ELIZABETH , daughter and heir of John MICHELGROVE , Taken at Steyning , 29th March , 15 Edw . IV . ( 1475 ) .
John Wolff deposes that the said Elizabeth is upwards of fourteen years old , for she was born at Ernle , on March 28th , 39 Hen . VI . ( 1461 ) ; and that Elizabeth , wife of Thomas Taweke , Esq . , one of her godmothers , told him she had been at
was buried at Clapham .John Remys deposes that she is fourteen years old , because on the day abovesaid he met John Ernle , her godfather , going to Ernle church to her baptism .
John Hunt recollects the day , because he rode with Joan Ernle , the other godmother , to Ernle church on that day to the baptism .
John Broker — because the godfather and godmothers , and many other persons , came into his house on that day , directly after the baptism of the said Elizabeth , to eat and to drink , and they told him of it .
Richard Millward — because on that day John Ernle , the godfather , met him and told him of the baptism .
John Ederuhem because the horses of John Ernle , the god father , stood at his house on that day , and after the baptism he told him he was the godfather .
William Atte Lee because he was in Ernle church on that day to hear mass . Richard French - - because in going to the church to see the baptism , he fell with his right leg against a ladder , in the parish of Ernle , and broke his leg , which he shall never forget .
William Clement – because the day was very windy , and part of his house was unroofed by the wind .
Nicholas Shepherd , John Mansell , and John Grey - because on that day they met a woman named Isabella Tryse , who was the midwife at the birth of the said Elizabeth , and she told them of her birth and baptism .
Robert Comber and John Duke because they met Thomas Elyot , the chaplain of Ernle , who told them he had baptised the said Elizabeth , in Ernle church on that day . 3
1 The writ was sued out by Sir John and the inquisition was held the day after Shelley , whom she had already , though so she was fourteen ; her husband lost no young , married . She ob . 30th June , 1513 , time therefore in acquiring her or her and
Shermanbury also settled on said William and Alice. Manor of Hoope in Rudgwick settled 16 Hen. VIII. on himself for life and afterwards on Richard Shelley and Mary his wife. Lands called "Lymeborn" in Fittleworth,"Wayhurst" in Rudgwick, "la Lee" in3 The writ was dated 8th Nov . 1474 , 3 Inq . 15 Edw . IV . No . 66 ..
https://www.sussexrecordsociety.org/olb/srs014/
Citation
Sussex Record Society Volume 14 page 201.
Notes
JOHN SHELLEY,
esq.
Vol. 46, No. 14.
Steyning, 29 June 19 Hen. VIII. Died 3 Jan. 18 Hen. VIII.
Heir, son William Shelley, the Judge, aged 48 and more.
Lands. Manor of Applesham, advowson of and lands in Combes settled 26 Sept. 18 Hen. VIII. on Alice, wife of William Shelley his son and heir, remainder to William S. and his heirs. Moiety of manor and advowson of Denton in Denton and "Sakam" in
chapel of Wootton, and lands in Patching and Heene, lands called "Wantley" in Sullington. So seized she married John Shelley, and they 10 July 3 Hen. VIII. on the marriage of their son William S. with Alice, one of the sisters and heirs apparent ofELIZABETH, widow of JOHN SHELLEY, esq., and daughter and heir of John Michelgrove, otherwise called John Fawkenor, esq. Vol. 46, No. 15.
Steyning, 29 June 19 Hen. VIII. Died 30 July 5 Hen. VIII.
Heir, son William Shelley, now one of the Justices of the King's Bench, and aged 48 and more.
Lands called " Michelgrove " and other lands in Clapham, " Bulshams " in Yapton, lands in Barnham, manor of Benstede, lands in Fittleworth, Petworth, Stopham, Pulborough, Cbichester, Funtingdon, Bosham, Wootton near Fakington. and advowson of the
Hi All,Lewknor of Sherfield Sussex and "unknown" daughter of Michelgrove. This information comes from "Sussex Archaeological Collections, History and Antiquities of the County". Looking at the site "Our Royal Titled and Commoner Ancestors", I can see the the
I was very pleased to find these Michelgrove messages and I have been reading them with great interest. I am researching the Lewknor line of Sussex. Bennet Lewknor (whose 2nd husband was Thomas Twisden, direct ancestor) was the daughter of Richard
I am a bit confused as you say in the inquisition post mortem of John Michelgrove III (died 1458/9) his widow was Joan?? I thought (according to the above messages) his wife was Mary/Anne d 1478.to a lot in Wikitrees.
According to the website "Our Royal Titled and Commoner Ancestors", John Michelgrove & Mary Sidney have 2 daus, Elizabeth & unknown. No mention of son John d1459. I think maybe the Elizabeth is the dau of John IV. A mistake maybe. This tree is referred
Going back to the Joan & Mary/Anne Sidney question, am I reading this incorrectly?
Thanks in advance
Gillian
On Thursday, 16 June 2022 at 13:38:17 UTC+2, Gillian Mckenna wrote:gives the age of his son and heir, John the younger as 22 years and 11 months on 22 April 1459. The inquisitions taken on the deaths of these two, in 1459 and 1461 show almost identical land holdings. In Kent these were the manor of Fauconherst with the
On Sunday, 24 October 2021 at 01:34:07 UTC+2, macken...@gmail.com wrote:
Here are my notes on his son
Here are my notes on the son.
JOHN MICHELGROVE IV was born in March 1436, probably in either Sussex or Kent, to John Michelgrove (1413-1459) and Joan. It is said he apparently married Mary/Anne? Sidney about 1450 of Kent, England.
John Michelgrove was a young man of 23 years when he died on 21 November 1459, only ten months after the death of his father John Michelgrove, esquire the elder. The later died on 27 January 1458/9 [27 Jan 1459 n.s.] and his inquisition post mortem
wife of the late John Michelgrove III of a third part of Wotton for the term of her natural life. John the younger is referred to as son and heir of John Senior in the assignment, but not specifically of Joan the widow.The main difference between the land holdings of the father and son is that the son held only two parts of Fauconherst and Wotton. At the the time of his fathers inquisition in 1458/9 the Escheator for Sussex made an assignment of dower to Joan
England, age 50 [further sources needed].It is not known where he was born or died, but it is believed he resided at Michelgrove House, Sussex.
MARY/ANNE? SIDNEY, his apparent wife, was born about 1428 of Kent, England, to William Sydney of Kingsham (1390-1449) and Cecily Michell (1390-1447.) She married John Michelgrove about 1450 of Sussex, England. Mary Sidney passed away about 1478,
Margaret Scardevyle. But by 1428 William Sydney was said to possess a 1/3 share of the manor. John Michelgrove III father of the current John acted as a third party to the conveyance of this Manor to William Sydney and his heir males by Isabel St. JohnHowever, it should be noted that the Michelgroves had acquired by 1414 a half share of the manor of Kingsham through their grandmother Joan Whegleton, who apparently was a descendant and heir of the Sydneys. The other half was held by her sister
Eyre and Spottiswoode, 18991920.v5 p157John junior’s SOLE daughter and heir was Elizabeth Michelgrove who was born 28 March 1460 some 3 months after her father died.
References
Great Britain. Public Record Office, and H. C. Maxwell Lyte. Inquisitions And Assessments Relating to Feudal Aids: With Other Analogous Documents Preserved In the Public Record Office. A.D. 1284-1431. London: Printed for H. M. Stationery off., by
2021."Sussex Fines: 21." 25 Henry VI https://www.british-history.ac.uk/feet-of-fines-sussex/vol3/pp255-260#h3-0003. Accessed 20 Oct. 2021.
"#254 - Calendar of the Fine rolls preserved in the Public ... v.19 1452-1461.." Full View https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293024017919&view=1up&seq=254&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#610 - Calendar of the patent rolls preserved in the Public ... 1452-1461 Henry VI v.6. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015031079547&view=1up&seq=610&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct.
her baptism at Ernle on that day ."Catalogue description Michelgrove, John Kent, Sussex." Discovery https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C6544445. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#107 - Calendar of the patent rolls. 1461-1467. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293027026339&view=1up&seq=107&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#294 - Calendar of the Fine rolls preserved in the Public ... v.19 1452-1461. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293024017919&view=1up&seq=294&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#28 - Proofs of age of Sussex families, temp. Edw. II to Edw. IV.." Full View https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.hx1fkv&view=1up&seq=28&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 16 Oct. 2021.
Notes
MICHELGROVE . - Proof of the age of ELIZABETH , daughter and heir of John MICHELGROVE , Taken at Steyning , 29th March , 15 Edw . IV . ( 1475 ) .
John Wolff deposes that the said Elizabeth is upwards of fourteen years old , for she was born at Ernle , on March 28th , 39 Hen . VI . ( 1461 ) ; and that Elizabeth , wife of Thomas Taweke , Esq . , one of her godmothers , told him she had been at
and was buried at Clapham .John Remys deposes that she is fourteen years old , because on the day abovesaid he met John Ernle , her godfather , going to Ernle church to her baptism .
John Hunt recollects the day , because he rode with Joan Ernle , the other godmother , to Ernle church on that day to the baptism .
John Broker — because the godfather and godmothers , and many other persons , came into his house on that day , directly after the baptism of the said Elizabeth , to eat and to drink , and they told him of it .
Richard Millward — because on that day John Ernle , the godfather , met him and told him of the baptism .
John Ederuhem because the horses of John Ernle , the god father , stood at his house on that day , and after the baptism he told him he was the godfather .
William Atte Lee because he was in Ernle church on that day to hear mass .
Richard French - - because in going to the church to see the baptism , he fell with his right leg against a ladder , in the parish of Ernle , and broke his leg , which he shall never forget .
William Clement – because the day was very windy , and part of his house was unroofed by the wind .
Nicholas Shepherd , John Mansell , and John Grey - because on that day they met a woman named Isabella Tryse , who was the midwife at the birth of the said Elizabeth , and she told them of her birth and baptism .
Robert Comber and John Duke because they met Thomas Elyot , the chaplain of Ernle , who told them he had baptised the said Elizabeth , in Ernle church on that day . 3
1 The writ was sued out by Sir John and the inquisition was held the day after Shelley , whom she had already , though so she was fourteen ; her husband lost no young , married . She ob . 30th June , 1513 , time therefore in acquiring her or her
Shermanbury also settled on said William and Alice. Manor of Hoope in Rudgwick settled 16 Hen. VIII. on himself for life and afterwards on Richard Shelley and Mary his wife. Lands called "Lymeborn" in Fittleworth,"Wayhurst" in Rudgwick, "la Lee" in3 The writ was dated 8th Nov . 1474 , 3 Inq . 15 Edw . IV . No . 66 ..
https://www.sussexrecordsociety.org/olb/srs014/
Citation
Sussex Record Society Volume 14 page 201.
Notes
JOHN SHELLEY,
esq.
Vol. 46, No. 14.
Steyning, 29 June 19 Hen. VIII. Died 3 Jan. 18 Hen. VIII.
Heir, son William Shelley, the Judge, aged 48 and more.
Lands. Manor of Applesham, advowson of and lands in Combes settled 26 Sept. 18 Hen. VIII. on Alice, wife of William Shelley his son and heir, remainder to William S. and his heirs. Moiety of manor and advowson of Denton in Denton and "Sakam" in
chapel of Wootton, and lands in Patching and Heene, lands called "Wantley" in Sullington. So seized she married John Shelley, and they 10 July 3 Hen. VIII. on the marriage of their son William S. with Alice, one of the sisters and heirs apparent ofELIZABETH, widow of JOHN SHELLEY, esq., and daughter and heir of John Michelgrove, otherwise called John Fawkenor, esq. Vol. 46, No. 15.
Steyning, 29 June 19 Hen. VIII. Died 30 July 5 Hen. VIII.
Heir, son William Shelley, now one of the Justices of the King's Bench, and aged 48 and more.
Lands called " Michelgrove " and other lands in Clapham, " Bulshams " in Yapton, lands in Barnham, manor of Benstede, lands in Fittleworth, Petworth, Stopham, Pulborough, Cbichester, Funtingdon, Bosham, Wootton near Fakington. and advowson of the
Lewknor of Sherfield Sussex and "unknown" daughter of Michelgrove. This information comes from "Sussex Archaeological Collections, History and Antiquities of the County". Looking at the site "Our Royal Titled and Commoner Ancestors", I can see the theHi All,
I was very pleased to find these Michelgrove messages and I have been reading them with great interest. I am researching the Lewknor line of Sussex. Bennet Lewknor (whose 2nd husband was Thomas Twisden, direct ancestor) was the daughter of Richard
referred to a lot in Wikitrees.I am a bit confused as you say in the inquisition post mortem of John Michelgrove III (died 1458/9) his widow was Joan?? I thought (according to the above messages) his wife was Mary/Anne d 1478.
According to the website "Our Royal Titled and Commoner Ancestors", John Michelgrove & Mary Sidney have 2 daus, Elizabeth & unknown. No mention of son John d1459. I think maybe the Elizabeth is the dau of John IV. A mistake maybe. This tree is
seem from the information given above that maybe the family tree in the Visitation of Sussex (Lewknor tree) is incorrect? Maybe Miss Michelgrove was the daughter of John senior and Joan? I have been playing around with the dates and both scenarios couldGoing back to the Joan & Mary/Anne Sidney question, am I reading this incorrectly?
Thanks in advance
GillianHi Again,
Yes I think that I read the previous messages incorrectly! Sorry about that.
For my Lewknor line, the mysterious Miss Michelgrove is said to be the daughter of John Michelgrove and Mary Sidney. However, the sole descendent of John and Mary was Elizabeth their daughter. I do not know how my Miss Michelgrove fits in. It would
Does anyone have any information?
Thanks
Gillian
On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 7:00:20 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:mortem gives the age of his son and heir, John the younger as 22 years and 11 months on 22 April 1459. The inquisitions taken on the deaths of these two, in 1459 and 1461 show almost identical land holdings. In Kent these were the manor of Fauconherst
On Thursday, 16 June 2022 at 13:38:17 UTC+2, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Sunday, 24 October 2021 at 01:34:07 UTC+2, macken...@gmail.com wrote:
Here are my notes on his son
Here are my notes on the son.
JOHN MICHELGROVE IV was born in March 1436, probably in either Sussex or Kent, to John Michelgrove (1413-1459) and Joan. It is said he apparently married Mary/Anne? Sidney about 1450 of Kent, England.
John Michelgrove was a young man of 23 years when he died on 21 November 1459, only ten months after the death of his father John Michelgrove, esquire the elder. The later died on 27 January 1458/9 [27 Jan 1459 n.s.] and his inquisition post
wife of the late John Michelgrove III of a third part of Wotton for the term of her natural life. John the younger is referred to as son and heir of John Senior in the assignment, but not specifically of Joan the widow.The main difference between the land holdings of the father and son is that the son held only two parts of Fauconherst and Wotton. At the the time of his fathers inquisition in 1458/9 the Escheator for Sussex made an assignment of dower to Joan
England, age 50 [further sources needed].It is not known where he was born or died, but it is believed he resided at Michelgrove House, Sussex.
MARY/ANNE? SIDNEY, his apparent wife, was born about 1428 of Kent, England, to William Sydney of Kingsham (1390-1449) and Cecily Michell (1390-1447.) She married John Michelgrove about 1450 of Sussex, England. Mary Sidney passed away about 1478,
Margaret Scardevyle. But by 1428 William Sydney was said to possess a 1/3 share of the manor. John Michelgrove III father of the current John acted as a third party to the conveyance of this Manor to William Sydney and his heir males by Isabel St. JohnHowever, it should be noted that the Michelgroves had acquired by 1414 a half share of the manor of Kingsham through their grandmother Joan Whegleton, who apparently was a descendant and heir of the Sydneys. The other half was held by her sister
Eyre and Spottiswoode, 18991920.v5 p157John junior’s SOLE daughter and heir was Elizabeth Michelgrove who was born 28 March 1460 some 3 months after her father died.
References
Great Britain. Public Record Office, and H. C. Maxwell Lyte. Inquisitions And Assessments Relating to Feudal Aids: With Other Analogous Documents Preserved In the Public Record Office. A.D. 1284-1431. London: Printed for H. M. Stationery off., by
2021."Sussex Fines: 21." 25 Henry VI https://www.british-history.ac.uk/feet-of-fines-sussex/vol3/pp255-260#h3-0003. Accessed 20 Oct. 2021.
"#254 - Calendar of the Fine rolls preserved in the Public ... v.19 1452-1461.." Full View https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293024017919&view=1up&seq=254&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#610 - Calendar of the patent rolls preserved in the Public ... 1452-1461 Henry VI v.6. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015031079547&view=1up&seq=610&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct.
at her baptism at Ernle on that day ."Catalogue description Michelgrove, John Kent, Sussex." Discovery https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C6544445. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#107 - Calendar of the patent rolls. 1461-1467. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293027026339&view=1up&seq=107&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#294 - Calendar of the Fine rolls preserved in the Public ... v.19 1452-1461. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293024017919&view=1up&seq=294&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#28 - Proofs of age of Sussex families, temp. Edw. II to Edw. IV.." Full View https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.hx1fkv&view=1up&seq=28&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 16 Oct. 2021.
Notes
MICHELGROVE . - Proof of the age of ELIZABETH , daughter and heir of John MICHELGROVE , Taken at Steyning , 29th March , 15 Edw . IV . ( 1475 ) .
John Wolff deposes that the said Elizabeth is upwards of fourteen years old , for she was born at Ernle , on March 28th , 39 Hen . VI . ( 1461 ) ; and that Elizabeth , wife of Thomas Taweke , Esq . , one of her godmothers , told him she had been
and was buried at Clapham .John Remys deposes that she is fourteen years old , because on the day abovesaid he met John Ernle , her godfather , going to Ernle church to her baptism .
John Hunt recollects the day , because he rode with Joan Ernle , the other godmother , to Ernle church on that day to the baptism .
John Broker — because the godfather and godmothers , and many other persons , came into his house on that day , directly after the baptism of the said Elizabeth , to eat and to drink , and they told him of it .
Richard Millward — because on that day John Ernle , the godfather , met him and told him of the baptism .
John Ederuhem because the horses of John Ernle , the god father , stood at his house on that day , and after the baptism he told him he was the godfather .
William Atte Lee because he was in Ernle church on that day to hear mass .
Richard French - - because in going to the church to see the baptism , he fell with his right leg against a ladder , in the parish of Ernle , and broke his leg , which he shall never forget .
William Clement – because the day was very windy , and part of his house was unroofed by the wind .
Nicholas Shepherd , John Mansell , and John Grey - because on that day they met a woman named Isabella Tryse , who was the midwife at the birth of the said Elizabeth , and she told them of her birth and baptism .
Robert Comber and John Duke because they met Thomas Elyot , the chaplain of Ernle , who told them he had baptised the said Elizabeth , in Ernle church on that day . 3
1 The writ was sued out by Sir John and the inquisition was held the day after Shelley , whom she had already , though so she was fourteen ; her husband lost no young , married . She ob . 30th June , 1513 , time therefore in acquiring her or her
Shermanbury also settled on said William and Alice. Manor of Hoope in Rudgwick settled 16 Hen. VIII. on himself for life and afterwards on Richard Shelley and Mary his wife. Lands called "Lymeborn" in Fittleworth,"Wayhurst" in Rudgwick, "la Lee" in3 The writ was dated 8th Nov . 1474 , 3 Inq . 15 Edw . IV . No . 66 ..
https://www.sussexrecordsociety.org/olb/srs014/
Citation
Sussex Record Society Volume 14 page 201.
Notes
JOHN SHELLEY,
esq.
Vol. 46, No. 14.
Steyning, 29 June 19 Hen. VIII. Died 3 Jan. 18 Hen. VIII.
Heir, son William Shelley, the Judge, aged 48 and more.
Lands. Manor of Applesham, advowson of and lands in Combes settled 26 Sept. 18 Hen. VIII. on Alice, wife of William Shelley his son and heir, remainder to William S. and his heirs. Moiety of manor and advowson of Denton in Denton and "Sakam" in
chapel of Wootton, and lands in Patching and Heene, lands called "Wantley" in Sullington. So seized she married John Shelley, and they 10 July 3 Hen. VIII. on the marriage of their son William S. with Alice, one of the sisters and heirs apparent ofELIZABETH, widow of JOHN SHELLEY, esq., and daughter and heir of John Michelgrove, otherwise called John Fawkenor, esq. Vol. 46, No. 15.
Steyning, 29 June 19 Hen. VIII. Died 30 July 5 Hen. VIII.
Heir, son William Shelley, now one of the Justices of the King's Bench, and aged 48 and more.
Lands called " Michelgrove " and other lands in Clapham, " Bulshams " in Yapton, lands in Barnham, manor of Benstede, lands in Fittleworth, Petworth, Stopham, Pulborough, Cbichester, Funtingdon, Bosham, Wootton near Fakington. and advowson of the
Lewknor of Sherfield Sussex and "unknown" daughter of Michelgrove. This information comes from "Sussex Archaeological Collections, History and Antiquities of the County". Looking at the site "Our Royal Titled and Commoner Ancestors", I can see the theHi All,
I was very pleased to find these Michelgrove messages and I have been reading them with great interest. I am researching the Lewknor line of Sussex. Bennet Lewknor (whose 2nd husband was Thomas Twisden, direct ancestor) was the daughter of Richard
referred to a lot in Wikitrees.I am a bit confused as you say in the inquisition post mortem of John Michelgrove III (died 1458/9) his widow was Joan?? I thought (according to the above messages) his wife was Mary/Anne d 1478.
According to the website "Our Royal Titled and Commoner Ancestors", John Michelgrove & Mary Sidney have 2 daus, Elizabeth & unknown. No mention of son John d1459. I think maybe the Elizabeth is the dau of John IV. A mistake maybe. This tree is
seem from the information given above that maybe the family tree in the Visitation of Sussex (Lewknor tree) is incorrect? Maybe Miss Michelgrove was the daughter of John senior and Joan? I have been playing around with the dates and both scenarios couldGoing back to the Joan & Mary/Anne Sidney question, am I reading this incorrectly?
Thanks in advance
GillianHi Again,
Yes I think that I read the previous messages incorrectly! Sorry about that.
For my Lewknor line, the mysterious Miss Michelgrove is said to be the daughter of John Michelgrove and Mary Sidney. However, the sole descendent of John and Mary was Elizabeth their daughter. I do not know how my Miss Michelgrove fits in. It would
Does anyone have any information?
Thanks
GillianBennet Lewknor was the daughter of Richard /Lewknor/ of Brambletye
He in turn was the son of Thomas /Lewknor/ of Horsted Keynes, Sussex; Knt by Philippe /Dallingridge/
On Monday, 20 June 2022 at 14:56:21 UTC+2, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:mortem gives the age of his son and heir, John the younger as 22 years and 11 months on 22 April 1459. The inquisitions taken on the deaths of these two, in 1459 and 1461 show almost identical land holdings. In Kent these were the manor of Fauconherst
On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 7:00:20 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Thursday, 16 June 2022 at 13:38:17 UTC+2, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Sunday, 24 October 2021 at 01:34:07 UTC+2, macken...@gmail.com wrote:
Here are my notes on his son
Here are my notes on the son.
JOHN MICHELGROVE IV was born in March 1436, probably in either Sussex or Kent, to John Michelgrove (1413-1459) and Joan. It is said he apparently married Mary/Anne? Sidney about 1450 of Kent, England.
John Michelgrove was a young man of 23 years when he died on 21 November 1459, only ten months after the death of his father John Michelgrove, esquire the elder. The later died on 27 January 1458/9 [27 Jan 1459 n.s.] and his inquisition post
wife of the late John Michelgrove III of a third part of Wotton for the term of her natural life. John the younger is referred to as son and heir of John Senior in the assignment, but not specifically of Joan the widow.The main difference between the land holdings of the father and son is that the son held only two parts of Fauconherst and Wotton. At the the time of his fathers inquisition in 1458/9 the Escheator for Sussex made an assignment of dower to Joan
England, age 50 [further sources needed].It is not known where he was born or died, but it is believed he resided at Michelgrove House, Sussex.
MARY/ANNE? SIDNEY, his apparent wife, was born about 1428 of Kent, England, to William Sydney of Kingsham (1390-1449) and Cecily Michell (1390-1447.) She married John Michelgrove about 1450 of Sussex, England. Mary Sidney passed away about 1478,
sister Margaret Scardevyle. But by 1428 William Sydney was said to possess a 1/3 share of the manor. John Michelgrove III father of the current John acted as a third party to the conveyance of this Manor to William Sydney and his heir males by Isabel St.However, it should be noted that the Michelgroves had acquired by 1414 a half share of the manor of Kingsham through their grandmother Joan Whegleton, who apparently was a descendant and heir of the Sydneys. The other half was held by her
by Eyre and Spottiswoode, 18991920.v5 p157John junior’s SOLE daughter and heir was Elizabeth Michelgrove who was born 28 March 1460 some 3 months after her father died.
References
Great Britain. Public Record Office, and H. C. Maxwell Lyte. Inquisitions And Assessments Relating to Feudal Aids: With Other Analogous Documents Preserved In the Public Record Office. A.D. 1284-1431. London: Printed for H. M. Stationery off.,
Oct. 2021."Sussex Fines: 21." 25 Henry VI https://www.british-history.ac.uk/feet-of-fines-sussex/vol3/pp255-260#h3-0003. Accessed 20 Oct. 2021.
"#254 - Calendar of the Fine rolls preserved in the Public ... v.19 1452-1461.." Full View https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293024017919&view=1up&seq=254&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#610 - Calendar of the patent rolls preserved in the Public ... 1452-1461 Henry VI v.6. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015031079547&view=1up&seq=610&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17
been at her baptism at Ernle on that day ."Catalogue description Michelgrove, John Kent, Sussex." Discovery https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C6544445. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#107 - Calendar of the patent rolls. 1461-1467. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293027026339&view=1up&seq=107&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#294 - Calendar of the Fine rolls preserved in the Public ... v.19 1452-1461. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293024017919&view=1up&seq=294&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#28 - Proofs of age of Sussex families, temp. Edw. II to Edw. IV.." Full View https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.hx1fkv&view=1up&seq=28&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 16 Oct. 2021.
Notes
MICHELGROVE . - Proof of the age of ELIZABETH , daughter and heir of John MICHELGROVE , Taken at Steyning , 29th March , 15 Edw . IV . ( 1475 ) .
John Wolff deposes that the said Elizabeth is upwards of fourteen years old , for she was born at Ernle , on March 28th , 39 Hen . VI . ( 1461 ) ; and that Elizabeth , wife of Thomas Taweke , Esq . , one of her godmothers , told him she had
her and was buried at Clapham .John Remys deposes that she is fourteen years old , because on the day abovesaid he met John Ernle , her godfather , going to Ernle church to her baptism .
John Hunt recollects the day , because he rode with Joan Ernle , the other godmother , to Ernle church on that day to the baptism .
John Broker — because the godfather and godmothers , and many other persons , came into his house on that day , directly after the baptism of the said Elizabeth , to eat and to drink , and they told him of it .
Richard Millward — because on that day John Ernle , the godfather , met him and told him of the baptism .
John Ederuhem because the horses of John Ernle , the god father , stood at his house on that day , and after the baptism he told him he was the godfather .
William Atte Lee because he was in Ernle church on that day to hear mass .
Richard French - - because in going to the church to see the baptism , he fell with his right leg against a ladder , in the parish of Ernle , and broke his leg , which he shall never forget .
William Clement – because the day was very windy , and part of his house was unroofed by the wind .
Nicholas Shepherd , John Mansell , and John Grey - because on that day they met a woman named Isabella Tryse , who was the midwife at the birth of the said Elizabeth , and she told them of her birth and baptism .
Robert Comber and John Duke because they met Thomas Elyot , the chaplain of Ernle , who told them he had baptised the said Elizabeth , in Ernle church on that day . 3
1 The writ was sued out by Sir John and the inquisition was held the day after Shelley , whom she had already , though so she was fourteen ; her husband lost no young , married . She ob . 30th June , 1513 , time therefore in acquiring her or
Shermanbury also settled on said William and Alice. Manor of Hoope in Rudgwick settled 16 Hen. VIII. on himself for life and afterwards on Richard Shelley and Mary his wife. Lands called "Lymeborn" in Fittleworth,"Wayhurst" in Rudgwick, "la Lee" in3 The writ was dated 8th Nov . 1474 , 3 Inq . 15 Edw . IV . No . 66 ..
https://www.sussexrecordsociety.org/olb/srs014/
Citation
Sussex Record Society Volume 14 page 201.
Notes
JOHN SHELLEY,
esq.
Vol. 46, No. 14.
Steyning, 29 June 19 Hen. VIII. Died 3 Jan. 18 Hen. VIII.
Heir, son William Shelley, the Judge, aged 48 and more.
Lands. Manor of Applesham, advowson of and lands in Combes settled 26 Sept. 18 Hen. VIII. on Alice, wife of William Shelley his son and heir, remainder to William S. and his heirs. Moiety of manor and advowson of Denton in Denton and "Sakam" in
the chapel of Wootton, and lands in Patching and Heene, lands called "Wantley" in Sullington. So seized she married John Shelley, and they 10 July 3 Hen. VIII. on the marriage of their son William S. with Alice, one of the sisters and heirs apparent ofELIZABETH, widow of JOHN SHELLEY, esq., and daughter and heir of John Michelgrove, otherwise called John Fawkenor, esq. Vol. 46, No. 15.
Steyning, 29 June 19 Hen. VIII. Died 30 July 5 Hen. VIII.
Heir, son William Shelley, now one of the Justices of the King's Bench, and aged 48 and more.
Lands called " Michelgrove " and other lands in Clapham, " Bulshams " in Yapton, lands in Barnham, manor of Benstede, lands in Fittleworth, Petworth, Stopham, Pulborough, Cbichester, Funtingdon, Bosham, Wootton near Fakington. and advowson of
Richard Lewknor of Sherfield Sussex and "unknown" daughter of Michelgrove. This information comes from "Sussex Archaeological Collections, History and Antiquities of the County". Looking at the site "Our Royal Titled and Commoner Ancestors", I can seeHi All,
I was very pleased to find these Michelgrove messages and I have been reading them with great interest. I am researching the Lewknor line of Sussex. Bennet Lewknor (whose 2nd husband was Thomas Twisden, direct ancestor) was the daughter of
referred to a lot in Wikitrees.I am a bit confused as you say in the inquisition post mortem of John Michelgrove III (died 1458/9) his widow was Joan?? I thought (according to the above messages) his wife was Mary/Anne d 1478.
According to the website "Our Royal Titled and Commoner Ancestors", John Michelgrove & Mary Sidney have 2 daus, Elizabeth & unknown. No mention of son John d1459. I think maybe the Elizabeth is the dau of John IV. A mistake maybe. This tree is
seem from the information given above that maybe the family tree in the Visitation of Sussex (Lewknor tree) is incorrect? Maybe Miss Michelgrove was the daughter of John senior and Joan? I have been playing around with the dates and both scenarios couldGoing back to the Joan & Mary/Anne Sidney question, am I reading this incorrectly?
Thanks in advance
GillianHi Again,
Yes I think that I read the previous messages incorrectly! Sorry about that.
For my Lewknor line, the mysterious Miss Michelgrove is said to be the daughter of John Michelgrove and Mary Sidney. However, the sole descendent of John and Mary was Elizabeth their daughter. I do not know how my Miss Michelgrove fits in. It would
Does anyone have any information?
Thanks
HiGillianBennet Lewknor was the daughter of Richard /Lewknor/ of Brambletye
He in turn was the son of Thomas /Lewknor/ of Horsted Keynes, Sussex; Knt by Philippe /Dallingridge/
I have Richard Lewknor of Sherfield and not Brambletyre and Richard was the son of Roger Lewknor and Eleanor Camoys.
Sussex Archaeological Collections.
Gillian
On Wednesday, June 22, 2022 at 10:18:59 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:mortem gives the age of his son and heir, John the younger as 22 years and 11 months on 22 April 1459. The inquisitions taken on the deaths of these two, in 1459 and 1461 show almost identical land holdings. In Kent these were the manor of Fauconherst
On Monday, 20 June 2022 at 14:56:21 UTC+2, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 7:00:20 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Thursday, 16 June 2022 at 13:38:17 UTC+2, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Sunday, 24 October 2021 at 01:34:07 UTC+2, macken...@gmail.com wrote:
Here are my notes on his son
Here are my notes on the son.
JOHN MICHELGROVE IV was born in March 1436, probably in either Sussex or Kent, to John Michelgrove (1413-1459) and Joan. It is said he apparently married Mary/Anne? Sidney about 1450 of Kent, England.
John Michelgrove was a young man of 23 years when he died on 21 November 1459, only ten months after the death of his father John Michelgrove, esquire the elder. The later died on 27 January 1458/9 [27 Jan 1459 n.s.] and his inquisition post
Joan wife of the late John Michelgrove III of a third part of Wotton for the term of her natural life. John the younger is referred to as son and heir of John Senior in the assignment, but not specifically of Joan the widow.The main difference between the land holdings of the father and son is that the son held only two parts of Fauconherst and Wotton. At the the time of his fathers inquisition in 1458/9 the Escheator for Sussex made an assignment of dower to
1478, England, age 50 [further sources needed].It is not known where he was born or died, but it is believed he resided at Michelgrove House, Sussex.
MARY/ANNE? SIDNEY, his apparent wife, was born about 1428 of Kent, England, to William Sydney of Kingsham (1390-1449) and Cecily Michell (1390-1447.) She married John Michelgrove about 1450 of Sussex, England. Mary Sidney passed away about
sister Margaret Scardevyle. But by 1428 William Sydney was said to possess a 1/3 share of the manor. John Michelgrove III father of the current John acted as a third party to the conveyance of this Manor to William Sydney and his heir males by Isabel St.However, it should be noted that the Michelgroves had acquired by 1414 a half share of the manor of Kingsham through their grandmother Joan Whegleton, who apparently was a descendant and heir of the Sydneys. The other half was held by her
by Eyre and Spottiswoode, 18991920.v5 p157John junior’s SOLE daughter and heir was Elizabeth Michelgrove who was born 28 March 1460 some 3 months after her father died.
References
Great Britain. Public Record Office, and H. C. Maxwell Lyte. Inquisitions And Assessments Relating to Feudal Aids: With Other Analogous Documents Preserved In the Public Record Office. A.D. 1284-1431. London: Printed for H. M. Stationery off.,
Oct. 2021."Sussex Fines: 21." 25 Henry VI https://www.british-history.ac.uk/feet-of-fines-sussex/vol3/pp255-260#h3-0003. Accessed 20 Oct. 2021.
"#254 - Calendar of the Fine rolls preserved in the Public ... v.19 1452-1461.." Full View https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293024017919&view=1up&seq=254&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#610 - Calendar of the patent rolls preserved in the Public ... 1452-1461 Henry VI v.6. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015031079547&view=1up&seq=610&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17
"Catalogue description Michelgrove, John Kent, Sussex." Discovery https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C6544445. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#107 - Calendar of the patent rolls. 1461-1467. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293027026339&view=1up&seq=107&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#294 - Calendar of the Fine rolls preserved in the Public ... v.19 1452-1461. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293024017919&view=1up&seq=294&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
been at her baptism at Ernle on that day ."#28 - Proofs of age of Sussex families, temp. Edw. II to Edw. IV.." Full View https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.hx1fkv&view=1up&seq=28&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 16 Oct. 2021.
Notes
MICHELGROVE . - Proof of the age of ELIZABETH , daughter and heir of John MICHELGROVE , Taken at Steyning , 29th March , 15 Edw . IV . ( 1475 ) .
John Wolff deposes that the said Elizabeth is upwards of fourteen years old , for she was born at Ernle , on March 28th , 39 Hen . VI . ( 1461 ) ; and that Elizabeth , wife of Thomas Taweke , Esq . , one of her godmothers , told him she had
her and was buried at Clapham .John Remys deposes that she is fourteen years old , because on the day abovesaid he met John Ernle , her godfather , going to Ernle church to her baptism .
John Hunt recollects the day , because he rode with Joan Ernle , the other godmother , to Ernle church on that day to the baptism .
John Broker — because the godfather and godmothers , and many other persons , came into his house on that day , directly after the baptism of the said Elizabeth , to eat and to drink , and they told him of it .
Richard Millward — because on that day John Ernle , the godfather , met him and told him of the baptism .
John Ederuhem because the horses of John Ernle , the god father , stood at his house on that day , and after the baptism he told him he was the godfather .
William Atte Lee because he was in Ernle church on that day to hear mass .
Richard French - - because in going to the church to see the baptism , he fell with his right leg against a ladder , in the parish of Ernle , and broke his leg , which he shall never forget .
William Clement – because the day was very windy , and part of his house was unroofed by the wind .
Nicholas Shepherd , John Mansell , and John Grey - because on that day they met a woman named Isabella Tryse , who was the midwife at the birth of the said Elizabeth , and she told them of her birth and baptism .
Robert Comber and John Duke because they met Thomas Elyot , the chaplain of Ernle , who told them he had baptised the said Elizabeth , in Ernle church on that day . 3
1 The writ was sued out by Sir John and the inquisition was held the day after Shelley , whom she had already , though so she was fourteen ; her husband lost no young , married . She ob . 30th June , 1513 , time therefore in acquiring her or
in Shermanbury also settled on said William and Alice. Manor of Hoope in Rudgwick settled 16 Hen. VIII. on himself for life and afterwards on Richard Shelley and Mary his wife. Lands called "Lymeborn" in Fittleworth,"Wayhurst" in Rudgwick, "la Lee" in3 The writ was dated 8th Nov . 1474 , 3 Inq . 15 Edw . IV . No . 66 ..
https://www.sussexrecordsociety.org/olb/srs014/
Citation
Sussex Record Society Volume 14 page 201.
Notes
JOHN SHELLEY,
esq.
Vol. 46, No. 14.
Steyning, 29 June 19 Hen. VIII. Died 3 Jan. 18 Hen. VIII.
Heir, son William Shelley, the Judge, aged 48 and more.
Lands. Manor of Applesham, advowson of and lands in Combes settled 26 Sept. 18 Hen. VIII. on Alice, wife of William Shelley his son and heir, remainder to William S. and his heirs. Moiety of manor and advowson of Denton in Denton and "Sakam"
the chapel of Wootton, and lands in Patching and Heene, lands called "Wantley" in Sullington. So seized she married John Shelley, and they 10 July 3 Hen. VIII. on the marriage of their son William S. with Alice, one of the sisters and heirs apparent ofELIZABETH, widow of JOHN SHELLEY, esq., and daughter and heir of John Michelgrove, otherwise called John Fawkenor, esq. Vol. 46, No. 15.
Steyning, 29 June 19 Hen. VIII. Died 30 July 5 Hen. VIII.
Heir, son William Shelley, now one of the Justices of the King's Bench, and aged 48 and more.
Lands called " Michelgrove " and other lands in Clapham, " Bulshams " in Yapton, lands in Barnham, manor of Benstede, lands in Fittleworth, Petworth, Stopham, Pulborough, Cbichester, Funtingdon, Bosham, Wootton near Fakington. and advowson of
Richard Lewknor of Sherfield Sussex and "unknown" daughter of Michelgrove. This information comes from "Sussex Archaeological Collections, History and Antiquities of the County". Looking at the site "Our Royal Titled and Commoner Ancestors", I can seeHi All,
I was very pleased to find these Michelgrove messages and I have been reading them with great interest. I am researching the Lewknor line of Sussex. Bennet Lewknor (whose 2nd husband was Thomas Twisden, direct ancestor) was the daughter of
referred to a lot in Wikitrees.I am a bit confused as you say in the inquisition post mortem of John Michelgrove III (died 1458/9) his widow was Joan?? I thought (according to the above messages) his wife was Mary/Anne d 1478.
According to the website "Our Royal Titled and Commoner Ancestors", John Michelgrove & Mary Sidney have 2 daus, Elizabeth & unknown. No mention of son John d1459. I think maybe the Elizabeth is the dau of John IV. A mistake maybe. This tree is
would seem from the information given above that maybe the family tree in the Visitation of Sussex (Lewknor tree) is incorrect? Maybe Miss Michelgrove was the daughter of John senior and Joan? I have been playing around with the dates and both scenariosGoing back to the Joan & Mary/Anne Sidney question, am I reading this incorrectly?
Thanks in advance
GillianHi Again,
Yes I think that I read the previous messages incorrectly! Sorry about that.
For my Lewknor line, the mysterious Miss Michelgrove is said to be the daughter of John Michelgrove and Mary Sidney. However, the sole descendent of John and Mary was Elizabeth their daughter. I do not know how my Miss Michelgrove fits in. It
Does anyone have any information?
Thanks
Could you specify an exact source citation so I can look it up and see what it actually statesHiGillianBennet Lewknor was the daughter of Richard /Lewknor/ of Brambletye
He in turn was the son of Thomas /Lewknor/ of Horsted Keynes, Sussex; Knt by Philippe /Dallingridge/
I have Richard Lewknor of Sherfield and not Brambletyre and Richard was the son of Roger Lewknor and Eleanor Camoys.
Sussex Archaeological Collections.
Gillian
On Wednesday, June 22, 2022 at 10:18:59 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:mortem gives the age of his son and heir, John the younger as 22 years and 11 months on 22 April 1459. The inquisitions taken on the deaths of these two, in 1459 and 1461 show almost identical land holdings. In Kent these were the manor of Fauconherst
On Monday, 20 June 2022 at 14:56:21 UTC+2, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 7:00:20 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Thursday, 16 June 2022 at 13:38:17 UTC+2, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Sunday, 24 October 2021 at 01:34:07 UTC+2, macken...@gmail.com wrote:
Here are my notes on his son
Here are my notes on the son.
JOHN MICHELGROVE IV was born in March 1436, probably in either Sussex or Kent, to John Michelgrove (1413-1459) and Joan. It is said he apparently married Mary/Anne? Sidney about 1450 of Kent, England.
John Michelgrove was a young man of 23 years when he died on 21 November 1459, only ten months after the death of his father John Michelgrove, esquire the elder. The later died on 27 January 1458/9 [27 Jan 1459 n.s.] and his inquisition post
Joan wife of the late John Michelgrove III of a third part of Wotton for the term of her natural life. John the younger is referred to as son and heir of John Senior in the assignment, but not specifically of Joan the widow.The main difference between the land holdings of the father and son is that the son held only two parts of Fauconherst and Wotton. At the the time of his fathers inquisition in 1458/9 the Escheator for Sussex made an assignment of dower to
1478, England, age 50 [further sources needed].It is not known where he was born or died, but it is believed he resided at Michelgrove House, Sussex.
MARY/ANNE? SIDNEY, his apparent wife, was born about 1428 of Kent, England, to William Sydney of Kingsham (1390-1449) and Cecily Michell (1390-1447.) She married John Michelgrove about 1450 of Sussex, England. Mary Sidney passed away about
sister Margaret Scardevyle. But by 1428 William Sydney was said to possess a 1/3 share of the manor. John Michelgrove III father of the current John acted as a third party to the conveyance of this Manor to William Sydney and his heir males by Isabel St.However, it should be noted that the Michelgroves had acquired by 1414 a half share of the manor of Kingsham through their grandmother Joan Whegleton, who apparently was a descendant and heir of the Sydneys. The other half was held by her
by Eyre and Spottiswoode, 18991920.v5 p157John junior’s SOLE daughter and heir was Elizabeth Michelgrove who was born 28 March 1460 some 3 months after her father died.
References
Great Britain. Public Record Office, and H. C. Maxwell Lyte. Inquisitions And Assessments Relating to Feudal Aids: With Other Analogous Documents Preserved In the Public Record Office. A.D. 1284-1431. London: Printed for H. M. Stationery off.,
Oct. 2021."Sussex Fines: 21." 25 Henry VI https://www.british-history.ac.uk/feet-of-fines-sussex/vol3/pp255-260#h3-0003. Accessed 20 Oct. 2021.
"#254 - Calendar of the Fine rolls preserved in the Public ... v.19 1452-1461.." Full View https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293024017919&view=1up&seq=254&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#610 - Calendar of the patent rolls preserved in the Public ... 1452-1461 Henry VI v.6. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015031079547&view=1up&seq=610&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17
"Catalogue description Michelgrove, John Kent, Sussex." Discovery https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C6544445. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#107 - Calendar of the patent rolls. 1461-1467. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293027026339&view=1up&seq=107&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#294 - Calendar of the Fine rolls preserved in the Public ... v.19 1452-1461. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293024017919&view=1up&seq=294&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
been at her baptism at Ernle on that day ."#28 - Proofs of age of Sussex families, temp. Edw. II to Edw. IV.." Full View https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.hx1fkv&view=1up&seq=28&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 16 Oct. 2021.
Notes
MICHELGROVE . - Proof of the age of ELIZABETH , daughter and heir of John MICHELGROVE , Taken at Steyning , 29th March , 15 Edw . IV . ( 1475 ) .
John Wolff deposes that the said Elizabeth is upwards of fourteen years old , for she was born at Ernle , on March 28th , 39 Hen . VI . ( 1461 ) ; and that Elizabeth , wife of Thomas Taweke , Esq . , one of her godmothers , told him she had
her and was buried at Clapham .John Remys deposes that she is fourteen years old , because on the day abovesaid he met John Ernle , her godfather , going to Ernle church to her baptism .
John Hunt recollects the day , because he rode with Joan Ernle , the other godmother , to Ernle church on that day to the baptism .
John Broker — because the godfather and godmothers , and many other persons , came into his house on that day , directly after the baptism of the said Elizabeth , to eat and to drink , and they told him of it .
Richard Millward — because on that day John Ernle , the godfather , met him and told him of the baptism .
John Ederuhem because the horses of John Ernle , the god father , stood at his house on that day , and after the baptism he told him he was the godfather .
William Atte Lee because he was in Ernle church on that day to hear mass .
Richard French - - because in going to the church to see the baptism , he fell with his right leg against a ladder , in the parish of Ernle , and broke his leg , which he shall never forget .
William Clement – because the day was very windy , and part of his house was unroofed by the wind .
Nicholas Shepherd , John Mansell , and John Grey - because on that day they met a woman named Isabella Tryse , who was the midwife at the birth of the said Elizabeth , and she told them of her birth and baptism .
Robert Comber and John Duke because they met Thomas Elyot , the chaplain of Ernle , who told them he had baptised the said Elizabeth , in Ernle church on that day . 3
1 The writ was sued out by Sir John and the inquisition was held the day after Shelley , whom she had already , though so she was fourteen ; her husband lost no young , married . She ob . 30th June , 1513 , time therefore in acquiring her or
in Shermanbury also settled on said William and Alice. Manor of Hoope in Rudgwick settled 16 Hen. VIII. on himself for life and afterwards on Richard Shelley and Mary his wife. Lands called "Lymeborn" in Fittleworth,"Wayhurst" in Rudgwick, "la Lee" in3 The writ was dated 8th Nov . 1474 , 3 Inq . 15 Edw . IV . No . 66 ..
https://www.sussexrecordsociety.org/olb/srs014/
Citation
Sussex Record Society Volume 14 page 201.
Notes
JOHN SHELLEY,
esq.
Vol. 46, No. 14.
Steyning, 29 June 19 Hen. VIII. Died 3 Jan. 18 Hen. VIII.
Heir, son William Shelley, the Judge, aged 48 and more.
Lands. Manor of Applesham, advowson of and lands in Combes settled 26 Sept. 18 Hen. VIII. on Alice, wife of William Shelley his son and heir, remainder to William S. and his heirs. Moiety of manor and advowson of Denton in Denton and "Sakam"
the chapel of Wootton, and lands in Patching and Heene, lands called "Wantley" in Sullington. So seized she married John Shelley, and they 10 July 3 Hen. VIII. on the marriage of their son William S. with Alice, one of the sisters and heirs apparent ofELIZABETH, widow of JOHN SHELLEY, esq., and daughter and heir of John Michelgrove, otherwise called John Fawkenor, esq. Vol. 46, No. 15.
Steyning, 29 June 19 Hen. VIII. Died 30 July 5 Hen. VIII.
Heir, son William Shelley, now one of the Justices of the King's Bench, and aged 48 and more.
Lands called " Michelgrove " and other lands in Clapham, " Bulshams " in Yapton, lands in Barnham, manor of Benstede, lands in Fittleworth, Petworth, Stopham, Pulborough, Cbichester, Funtingdon, Bosham, Wootton near Fakington. and advowson of
Richard Lewknor of Sherfield Sussex and "unknown" daughter of Michelgrove. This information comes from "Sussex Archaeological Collections, History and Antiquities of the County". Looking at the site "Our Royal Titled and Commoner Ancestors", I can seeHi All,
I was very pleased to find these Michelgrove messages and I have been reading them with great interest. I am researching the Lewknor line of Sussex. Bennet Lewknor (whose 2nd husband was Thomas Twisden, direct ancestor) was the daughter of
referred to a lot in Wikitrees.I am a bit confused as you say in the inquisition post mortem of John Michelgrove III (died 1458/9) his widow was Joan?? I thought (according to the above messages) his wife was Mary/Anne d 1478.
According to the website "Our Royal Titled and Commoner Ancestors", John Michelgrove & Mary Sidney have 2 daus, Elizabeth & unknown. No mention of son John d1459. I think maybe the Elizabeth is the dau of John IV. A mistake maybe. This tree is
would seem from the information given above that maybe the family tree in the Visitation of Sussex (Lewknor tree) is incorrect? Maybe Miss Michelgrove was the daughter of John senior and Joan? I have been playing around with the dates and both scenariosGoing back to the Joan & Mary/Anne Sidney question, am I reading this incorrectly?
Thanks in advance
GillianHi Again,
Yes I think that I read the previous messages incorrectly! Sorry about that.
For my Lewknor line, the mysterious Miss Michelgrove is said to be the daughter of John Michelgrove and Mary Sidney. However, the sole descendent of John and Mary was Elizabeth their daughter. I do not know how my Miss Michelgrove fits in. It
Does anyone have any information?
Thanks
Could you specify an exact source citation so I can look it up and see what it actually statesHiGillianBennet Lewknor was the daughter of Richard /Lewknor/ of Brambletye
He in turn was the son of Thomas /Lewknor/ of Horsted Keynes, Sussex; Knt by Philippe /Dallingridge/
I have Richard Lewknor of Sherfield and not Brambletyre and Richard was the son of Roger Lewknor and Eleanor Camoys.
Sussex Archaeological Collections.
Gillian
On Wednesday, 22 June 2022 at 22:11:29 UTC+2, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:post mortem gives the age of his son and heir, John the younger as 22 years and 11 months on 22 April 1459. The inquisitions taken on the deaths of these two, in 1459 and 1461 show almost identical land holdings. In Kent these were the manor of
On Wednesday, June 22, 2022 at 10:18:59 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Monday, 20 June 2022 at 14:56:21 UTC+2, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 7:00:20 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Thursday, 16 June 2022 at 13:38:17 UTC+2, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Sunday, 24 October 2021 at 01:34:07 UTC+2, macken...@gmail.com wrote:
Here are my notes on his son
Here are my notes on the son.
JOHN MICHELGROVE IV was born in March 1436, probably in either Sussex or Kent, to John Michelgrove (1413-1459) and Joan. It is said he apparently married Mary/Anne? Sidney about 1450 of Kent, England.
John Michelgrove was a young man of 23 years when he died on 21 November 1459, only ten months after the death of his father John Michelgrove, esquire the elder. The later died on 27 January 1458/9 [27 Jan 1459 n.s.] and his inquisition
Joan wife of the late John Michelgrove III of a third part of Wotton for the term of her natural life. John the younger is referred to as son and heir of John Senior in the assignment, but not specifically of Joan the widow.The main difference between the land holdings of the father and son is that the son held only two parts of Fauconherst and Wotton. At the the time of his fathers inquisition in 1458/9 the Escheator for Sussex made an assignment of dower to
1478, England, age 50 [further sources needed].It is not known where he was born or died, but it is believed he resided at Michelgrove House, Sussex.
MARY/ANNE? SIDNEY, his apparent wife, was born about 1428 of Kent, England, to William Sydney of Kingsham (1390-1449) and Cecily Michell (1390-1447.) She married John Michelgrove about 1450 of Sussex, England. Mary Sidney passed away about
sister Margaret Scardevyle. But by 1428 William Sydney was said to possess a 1/3 share of the manor. John Michelgrove III father of the current John acted as a third party to the conveyance of this Manor to William Sydney and his heir males by Isabel St.However, it should be noted that the Michelgroves had acquired by 1414 a half share of the manor of Kingsham through their grandmother Joan Whegleton, who apparently was a descendant and heir of the Sydneys. The other half was held by her
off., by Eyre and Spottiswoode, 18991920.v5 p157John junior’s SOLE daughter and heir was Elizabeth Michelgrove who was born 28 March 1460 some 3 months after her father died.
References
Great Britain. Public Record Office, and H. C. Maxwell Lyte. Inquisitions And Assessments Relating to Feudal Aids: With Other Analogous Documents Preserved In the Public Record Office. A.D. 1284-1431. London: Printed for H. M. Stationery
17 Oct. 2021."Sussex Fines: 21." 25 Henry VI https://www.british-history.ac.uk/feet-of-fines-sussex/vol3/pp255-260#h3-0003. Accessed 20 Oct. 2021.
"#254 - Calendar of the Fine rolls preserved in the Public ... v.19 1452-1461.." Full View https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293024017919&view=1up&seq=254&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#610 - Calendar of the patent rolls preserved in the Public ... 1452-1461 Henry VI v.6. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015031079547&view=1up&seq=610&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed
2021."Catalogue description Michelgrove, John Kent, Sussex." Discovery https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C6544445. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#107 - Calendar of the patent rolls. 1461-1467. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293027026339&view=1up&seq=107&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#294 - Calendar of the Fine rolls preserved in the Public ... v.19 1452-1461. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293024017919&view=1up&seq=294&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct.
been at her baptism at Ernle on that day ."#28 - Proofs of age of Sussex families, temp. Edw. II to Edw. IV.." Full View https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.hx1fkv&view=1up&seq=28&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 16 Oct. 2021.
Notes
MICHELGROVE . - Proof of the age of ELIZABETH , daughter and heir of John MICHELGROVE , Taken at Steyning , 29th March , 15 Edw . IV . ( 1475 ) .
John Wolff deposes that the said Elizabeth is upwards of fourteen years old , for she was born at Ernle , on March 28th , 39 Hen . VI . ( 1461 ) ; and that Elizabeth , wife of Thomas Taweke , Esq . , one of her godmothers , told him she had
or her and was buried at Clapham .John Remys deposes that she is fourteen years old , because on the day abovesaid he met John Ernle , her godfather , going to Ernle church to her baptism .
John Hunt recollects the day , because he rode with Joan Ernle , the other godmother , to Ernle church on that day to the baptism .
John Broker — because the godfather and godmothers , and many other persons , came into his house on that day , directly after the baptism of the said Elizabeth , to eat and to drink , and they told him of it .
Richard Millward — because on that day John Ernle , the godfather , met him and told him of the baptism .
John Ederuhem because the horses of John Ernle , the god father , stood at his house on that day , and after the baptism he told him he was the godfather .
William Atte Lee because he was in Ernle church on that day to hear mass .
Richard French - - because in going to the church to see the baptism , he fell with his right leg against a ladder , in the parish of Ernle , and broke his leg , which he shall never forget .
William Clement – because the day was very windy , and part of his house was unroofed by the wind .
Nicholas Shepherd , John Mansell , and John Grey - because on that day they met a woman named Isabella Tryse , who was the midwife at the birth of the said Elizabeth , and she told them of her birth and baptism .
Robert Comber and John Duke because they met Thomas Elyot , the chaplain of Ernle , who told them he had baptised the said Elizabeth , in Ernle church on that day . 3
1 The writ was sued out by Sir John and the inquisition was held the day after Shelley , whom she had already , though so she was fourteen ; her husband lost no young , married . She ob . 30th June , 1513 , time therefore in acquiring her
in Shermanbury also settled on said William and Alice. Manor of Hoope in Rudgwick settled 16 Hen. VIII. on himself for life and afterwards on Richard Shelley and Mary his wife. Lands called "Lymeborn" in Fittleworth,"Wayhurst" in Rudgwick, "la Lee" in3 The writ was dated 8th Nov . 1474 , 3 Inq . 15 Edw . IV . No . 66 ..
https://www.sussexrecordsociety.org/olb/srs014/
Citation
Sussex Record Society Volume 14 page 201.
Notes
JOHN SHELLEY,
esq.
Vol. 46, No. 14.
Steyning, 29 June 19 Hen. VIII. Died 3 Jan. 18 Hen. VIII.
Heir, son William Shelley, the Judge, aged 48 and more.
Lands. Manor of Applesham, advowson of and lands in Combes settled 26 Sept. 18 Hen. VIII. on Alice, wife of William Shelley his son and heir, remainder to William S. and his heirs. Moiety of manor and advowson of Denton in Denton and "Sakam"
of the chapel of Wootton, and lands in Patching and Heene, lands called "Wantley" in Sullington. So seized she married John Shelley, and they 10 July 3 Hen. VIII. on the marriage of their son William S. with Alice, one of the sisters and heirs apparentELIZABETH, widow of JOHN SHELLEY, esq., and daughter and heir of John Michelgrove, otherwise called John Fawkenor, esq. Vol. 46, No. 15.
Steyning, 29 June 19 Hen. VIII. Died 30 July 5 Hen. VIII.
Heir, son William Shelley, now one of the Justices of the King's Bench, and aged 48 and more.
Lands called " Michelgrove " and other lands in Clapham, " Bulshams " in Yapton, lands in Barnham, manor of Benstede, lands in Fittleworth, Petworth, Stopham, Pulborough, Cbichester, Funtingdon, Bosham, Wootton near Fakington. and advowson
Richard Lewknor of Sherfield Sussex and "unknown" daughter of Michelgrove. This information comes from "Sussex Archaeological Collections, History and Antiquities of the County". Looking at the site "Our Royal Titled and Commoner Ancestors", I can seeHi All,
I was very pleased to find these Michelgrove messages and I have been reading them with great interest. I am researching the Lewknor line of Sussex. Bennet Lewknor (whose 2nd husband was Thomas Twisden, direct ancestor) was the daughter of
is referred to a lot in Wikitrees.I am a bit confused as you say in the inquisition post mortem of John Michelgrove III (died 1458/9) his widow was Joan?? I thought (according to the above messages) his wife was Mary/Anne d 1478.
According to the website "Our Royal Titled and Commoner Ancestors", John Michelgrove & Mary Sidney have 2 daus, Elizabeth & unknown. No mention of son John d1459. I think maybe the Elizabeth is the dau of John IV. A mistake maybe. This tree
would seem from the information given above that maybe the family tree in the Visitation of Sussex (Lewknor tree) is incorrect? Maybe Miss Michelgrove was the daughter of John senior and Joan? I have been playing around with the dates and both scenariosGoing back to the Joan & Mary/Anne Sidney question, am I reading this incorrectly?
Thanks in advance
GillianHi Again,
Yes I think that I read the previous messages incorrectly! Sorry about that.
For my Lewknor line, the mysterious Miss Michelgrove is said to be the daughter of John Michelgrove and Mary Sidney. However, the sole descendent of John and Mary was Elizabeth their daughter. I do not know how my Miss Michelgrove fits in. It
Does anyone have any information?
Thanks
HiCould you specify an exact source citation so I can look it up and see what it actually statesHiGillianBennet Lewknor was the daughter of Richard /Lewknor/ of Brambletye
He in turn was the son of Thomas /Lewknor/ of Horsted Keynes, Sussex; Knt by Philippe /Dallingridge/
I have Richard Lewknor of Sherfield and not Brambletyre and Richard was the son of Roger Lewknor and Eleanor Camoys.
Sussex Archaeological Collections.
Gillian
The source is Sussex Archaeological Collections P98.
Regards
Gillian
Richard Lewkenor of Brambletye died childless, when his heirs were said to the grand daughters of his late wife i.e. Elizabeth St Clair by her 1st husband William Lovell.Could you specify an exact source citation so I can look it up and see what it actually statesBennet Lewknor was the daughter of Richard /Lewknor/ of BrambletyeHi
He in turn was the son of Thomas /Lewknor/ of Horsted Keynes, Sussex; Knt by Philippe /Dallingridge/
I have Richard Lewknor of Sherfield and not Brambletyre and Richard was the son of Roger Lewknor and Eleanor Camoys.
Sussex Archaeological Collections.
Gillian
and a dictionary of heraldry ...Could you specify an exact source citation so I can look it up and see what it actually states
Another source:
Page 60 https://archive.org/details/baronetageofengl01wott/page/90/mode/2up?q=bennetta+lewkenor
The baronetage of England : containing a genealogical and historical account of all the English baronets now existing : ... illustrated with their coats of arms ... : to which is added an account of such Nova Scotia baronets as are of English families :
by Wotton, Thomas, d. 1766; Kimber, Edward, 1719-1769; Johnson, R. (Richard), 1733 or 4-1793; Wotton, Thomas, d. 1766
On Wednesday, 22 June 2022 at 22:11:29 UTC+2, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:post mortem gives the age of his son and heir, John the younger as 22 years and 11 months on 22 April 1459. The inquisitions taken on the deaths of these two, in 1459 and 1461 show almost identical land holdings. In Kent these were the manor of
On Wednesday, June 22, 2022 at 10:18:59 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Monday, 20 June 2022 at 14:56:21 UTC+2, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 7:00:20 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Thursday, 16 June 2022 at 13:38:17 UTC+2, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Sunday, 24 October 2021 at 01:34:07 UTC+2, macken...@gmail.com wrote:
Here are my notes on his son
Here are my notes on the son.
JOHN MICHELGROVE IV was born in March 1436, probably in either Sussex or Kent, to John Michelgrove (1413-1459) and Joan. It is said he apparently married Mary/Anne? Sidney about 1450 of Kent, England.
John Michelgrove was a young man of 23 years when he died on 21 November 1459, only ten months after the death of his father John Michelgrove, esquire the elder. The later died on 27 January 1458/9 [27 Jan 1459 n.s.] and his inquisition
Joan wife of the late John Michelgrove III of a third part of Wotton for the term of her natural life. John the younger is referred to as son and heir of John Senior in the assignment, but not specifically of Joan the widow.The main difference between the land holdings of the father and son is that the son held only two parts of Fauconherst and Wotton. At the the time of his fathers inquisition in 1458/9 the Escheator for Sussex made an assignment of dower to
1478, England, age 50 [further sources needed].It is not known where he was born or died, but it is believed he resided at Michelgrove House, Sussex.
MARY/ANNE? SIDNEY, his apparent wife, was born about 1428 of Kent, England, to William Sydney of Kingsham (1390-1449) and Cecily Michell (1390-1447.) She married John Michelgrove about 1450 of Sussex, England. Mary Sidney passed away about
sister Margaret Scardevyle. But by 1428 William Sydney was said to possess a 1/3 share of the manor. John Michelgrove III father of the current John acted as a third party to the conveyance of this Manor to William Sydney and his heir males by Isabel St.However, it should be noted that the Michelgroves had acquired by 1414 a half share of the manor of Kingsham through their grandmother Joan Whegleton, who apparently was a descendant and heir of the Sydneys. The other half was held by her
off., by Eyre and Spottiswoode, 18991920.v5 p157John junior’s SOLE daughter and heir was Elizabeth Michelgrove who was born 28 March 1460 some 3 months after her father died.
References
Great Britain. Public Record Office, and H. C. Maxwell Lyte. Inquisitions And Assessments Relating to Feudal Aids: With Other Analogous Documents Preserved In the Public Record Office. A.D. 1284-1431. London: Printed for H. M. Stationery
17 Oct. 2021."Sussex Fines: 21." 25 Henry VI https://www.british-history.ac.uk/feet-of-fines-sussex/vol3/pp255-260#h3-0003. Accessed 20 Oct. 2021.
"#254 - Calendar of the Fine rolls preserved in the Public ... v.19 1452-1461.." Full View https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293024017919&view=1up&seq=254&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#610 - Calendar of the patent rolls preserved in the Public ... 1452-1461 Henry VI v.6. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015031079547&view=1up&seq=610&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed
2021."Catalogue description Michelgrove, John Kent, Sussex." Discovery https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C6544445. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#107 - Calendar of the patent rolls. 1461-1467. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293027026339&view=1up&seq=107&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#294 - Calendar of the Fine rolls preserved in the Public ... v.19 1452-1461. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293024017919&view=1up&seq=294&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct.
been at her baptism at Ernle on that day ."#28 - Proofs of age of Sussex families, temp. Edw. II to Edw. IV.." Full View https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.hx1fkv&view=1up&seq=28&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 16 Oct. 2021.
Notes
MICHELGROVE . - Proof of the age of ELIZABETH , daughter and heir of John MICHELGROVE , Taken at Steyning , 29th March , 15 Edw . IV . ( 1475 ) .
John Wolff deposes that the said Elizabeth is upwards of fourteen years old , for she was born at Ernle , on March 28th , 39 Hen . VI . ( 1461 ) ; and that Elizabeth , wife of Thomas Taweke , Esq . , one of her godmothers , told him she had
or her and was buried at Clapham .John Remys deposes that she is fourteen years old , because on the day abovesaid he met John Ernle , her godfather , going to Ernle church to her baptism .
John Hunt recollects the day , because he rode with Joan Ernle , the other godmother , to Ernle church on that day to the baptism .
John Broker — because the godfather and godmothers , and many other persons , came into his house on that day , directly after the baptism of the said Elizabeth , to eat and to drink , and they told him of it .
Richard Millward — because on that day John Ernle , the godfather , met him and told him of the baptism .
John Ederuhem because the horses of John Ernle , the god father , stood at his house on that day , and after the baptism he told him he was the godfather .
William Atte Lee because he was in Ernle church on that day to hear mass .
Richard French - - because in going to the church to see the baptism , he fell with his right leg against a ladder , in the parish of Ernle , and broke his leg , which he shall never forget .
William Clement – because the day was very windy , and part of his house was unroofed by the wind .
Nicholas Shepherd , John Mansell , and John Grey - because on that day they met a woman named Isabella Tryse , who was the midwife at the birth of the said Elizabeth , and she told them of her birth and baptism .
Robert Comber and John Duke because they met Thomas Elyot , the chaplain of Ernle , who told them he had baptised the said Elizabeth , in Ernle church on that day . 3
1 The writ was sued out by Sir John and the inquisition was held the day after Shelley , whom she had already , though so she was fourteen ; her husband lost no young , married . She ob . 30th June , 1513 , time therefore in acquiring her
in Shermanbury also settled on said William and Alice. Manor of Hoope in Rudgwick settled 16 Hen. VIII. on himself for life and afterwards on Richard Shelley and Mary his wife. Lands called "Lymeborn" in Fittleworth,"Wayhurst" in Rudgwick, "la Lee" in3 The writ was dated 8th Nov . 1474 , 3 Inq . 15 Edw . IV . No . 66 ..
https://www.sussexrecordsociety.org/olb/srs014/
Citation
Sussex Record Society Volume 14 page 201.
Notes
JOHN SHELLEY,
esq.
Vol. 46, No. 14.
Steyning, 29 June 19 Hen. VIII. Died 3 Jan. 18 Hen. VIII.
Heir, son William Shelley, the Judge, aged 48 and more.
Lands. Manor of Applesham, advowson of and lands in Combes settled 26 Sept. 18 Hen. VIII. on Alice, wife of William Shelley his son and heir, remainder to William S. and his heirs. Moiety of manor and advowson of Denton in Denton and "Sakam"
of the chapel of Wootton, and lands in Patching and Heene, lands called "Wantley" in Sullington. So seized she married John Shelley, and they 10 July 3 Hen. VIII. on the marriage of their son William S. with Alice, one of the sisters and heirs apparentELIZABETH, widow of JOHN SHELLEY, esq., and daughter and heir of John Michelgrove, otherwise called John Fawkenor, esq. Vol. 46, No. 15.
Steyning, 29 June 19 Hen. VIII. Died 30 July 5 Hen. VIII.
Heir, son William Shelley, now one of the Justices of the King's Bench, and aged 48 and more.
Lands called " Michelgrove " and other lands in Clapham, " Bulshams " in Yapton, lands in Barnham, manor of Benstede, lands in Fittleworth, Petworth, Stopham, Pulborough, Cbichester, Funtingdon, Bosham, Wootton near Fakington. and advowson
Richard Lewknor of Sherfield Sussex and "unknown" daughter of Michelgrove. This information comes from "Sussex Archaeological Collections, History and Antiquities of the County". Looking at the site "Our Royal Titled and Commoner Ancestors", I can seeHi All,
I was very pleased to find these Michelgrove messages and I have been reading them with great interest. I am researching the Lewknor line of Sussex. Bennet Lewknor (whose 2nd husband was Thomas Twisden, direct ancestor) was the daughter of
is referred to a lot in Wikitrees.I am a bit confused as you say in the inquisition post mortem of John Michelgrove III (died 1458/9) his widow was Joan?? I thought (according to the above messages) his wife was Mary/Anne d 1478.
According to the website "Our Royal Titled and Commoner Ancestors", John Michelgrove & Mary Sidney have 2 daus, Elizabeth & unknown. No mention of son John d1459. I think maybe the Elizabeth is the dau of John IV. A mistake maybe. This tree
would seem from the information given above that maybe the family tree in the Visitation of Sussex (Lewknor tree) is incorrect? Maybe Miss Michelgrove was the daughter of John senior and Joan? I have been playing around with the dates and both scenariosGoing back to the Joan & Mary/Anne Sidney question, am I reading this incorrectly?
Thanks in advance
GillianHi Again,
Yes I think that I read the previous messages incorrectly! Sorry about that.
For my Lewknor line, the mysterious Miss Michelgrove is said to be the daughter of John Michelgrove and Mary Sidney. However, the sole descendent of John and Mary was Elizabeth their daughter. I do not know how my Miss Michelgrove fits in. It
Does anyone have any information?
Thanks
HiCould you specify an exact source citation so I can look it up and see what it actually statesHiGillianBennet Lewknor was the daughter of Richard /Lewknor/ of Brambletye
He in turn was the son of Thomas /Lewknor/ of Horsted Keynes, Sussex; Knt by Philippe /Dallingridge/
I have Richard Lewknor of Sherfield and not Brambletyre and Richard was the son of Roger Lewknor and Eleanor Camoys.
Sussex Archaeological Collections.
Gillian
The source is Sussex Archaeological Collections P98.
Regards
Gillian
On Thursday, June 23, 2022 at 1:52:58 PM UTC-7, daveR wView https://babel.hathitrust.org
Richard Lewkenor of Brambletye died childless, when his heirs were said to the grand daughters of his late wife i.e. Elizabeth St Clair by her 1st husband William Lovell.Your *own* heirs cannot be your step-grandchildren
On Friday, June 24, 2022 at 7:13:13 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:post mortem gives the age of his son and heir, John the younger as 22 years and 11 months on 22 April 1459. The inquisitions taken on the deaths of these two, in 1459 and 1461 show almost identical land holdings. In Kent these were the manor of
On Wednesday, 22 June 2022 at 22:11:29 UTC+2, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, June 22, 2022 at 10:18:59 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Monday, 20 June 2022 at 14:56:21 UTC+2, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 7:00:20 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Thursday, 16 June 2022 at 13:38:17 UTC+2, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Sunday, 24 October 2021 at 01:34:07 UTC+2, macken...@gmail.com wrote:
Here are my notes on his son
Here are my notes on the son.
JOHN MICHELGROVE IV was born in March 1436, probably in either Sussex or Kent, to John Michelgrove (1413-1459) and Joan. It is said he apparently married Mary/Anne? Sidney about 1450 of Kent, England.
John Michelgrove was a young man of 23 years when he died on 21 November 1459, only ten months after the death of his father John Michelgrove, esquire the elder. The later died on 27 January 1458/9 [27 Jan 1459 n.s.] and his inquisition
to Joan wife of the late John Michelgrove III of a third part of Wotton for the term of her natural life. John the younger is referred to as son and heir of John Senior in the assignment, but not specifically of Joan the widow.The main difference between the land holdings of the father and son is that the son held only two parts of Fauconherst and Wotton. At the the time of his fathers inquisition in 1458/9 the Escheator for Sussex made an assignment of dower
about 1478, England, age 50 [further sources needed].It is not known where he was born or died, but it is believed he resided at Michelgrove House, Sussex.
MARY/ANNE? SIDNEY, his apparent wife, was born about 1428 of Kent, England, to William Sydney of Kingsham (1390-1449) and Cecily Michell (1390-1447.) She married John Michelgrove about 1450 of Sussex, England. Mary Sidney passed away
sister Margaret Scardevyle. But by 1428 William Sydney was said to possess a 1/3 share of the manor. John Michelgrove III father of the current John acted as a third party to the conveyance of this Manor to William Sydney and his heir males by Isabel St.However, it should be noted that the Michelgroves had acquired by 1414 a half share of the manor of Kingsham through their grandmother Joan Whegleton, who apparently was a descendant and heir of the Sydneys. The other half was held by her
off., by Eyre and Spottiswoode, 18991920.v5 p157John junior’s SOLE daughter and heir was Elizabeth Michelgrove who was born 28 March 1460 some 3 months after her father died.
References
Great Britain. Public Record Office, and H. C. Maxwell Lyte. Inquisitions And Assessments Relating to Feudal Aids: With Other Analogous Documents Preserved In the Public Record Office. A.D. 1284-1431. London: Printed for H. M. Stationery
Accessed 17 Oct. 2021."Sussex Fines: 21." 25 Henry VI https://www.british-history.ac.uk/feet-of-fines-sussex/vol3/pp255-260#h3-0003. Accessed 20 Oct. 2021.
"#254 - Calendar of the Fine rolls preserved in the Public ... v.19 1452-1461.." Full View https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293024017919&view=1up&seq=254&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#610 - Calendar of the patent rolls preserved in the Public ... 1452-1461 Henry VI v.6. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015031079547&view=1up&seq=610&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove.
2021."Catalogue description Michelgrove, John Kent, Sussex." Discovery https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C6544445. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#107 - Calendar of the patent rolls. 1461-1467. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293027026339&view=1up&seq=107&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#294 - Calendar of the Fine rolls preserved in the Public ... v.19 1452-1461. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293024017919&view=1up&seq=294&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct.
had been at her baptism at Ernle on that day ."#28 - Proofs of age of Sussex families, temp. Edw. II to Edw. IV.." Full View https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.hx1fkv&view=1up&seq=28&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 16 Oct. 2021.
Notes
MICHELGROVE . - Proof of the age of ELIZABETH , daughter and heir of John MICHELGROVE , Taken at Steyning , 29th March , 15 Edw . IV . ( 1475 ) .
John Wolff deposes that the said Elizabeth is upwards of fourteen years old , for she was born at Ernle , on March 28th , 39 Hen . VI . ( 1461 ) ; and that Elizabeth , wife of Thomas Taweke , Esq . , one of her godmothers , told him she
or her and was buried at Clapham .John Remys deposes that she is fourteen years old , because on the day abovesaid he met John Ernle , her godfather , going to Ernle church to her baptism .
John Hunt recollects the day , because he rode with Joan Ernle , the other godmother , to Ernle church on that day to the baptism .
John Broker — because the godfather and godmothers , and many other persons , came into his house on that day , directly after the baptism of the said Elizabeth , to eat and to drink , and they told him of it .
Richard Millward — because on that day John Ernle , the godfather , met him and told him of the baptism .
John Ederuhem because the horses of John Ernle , the god father , stood at his house on that day , and after the baptism he told him he was the godfather .
William Atte Lee because he was in Ernle church on that day to hear mass .
Richard French - - because in going to the church to see the baptism , he fell with his right leg against a ladder , in the parish of Ernle , and broke his leg , which he shall never forget .
William Clement – because the day was very windy , and part of his house was unroofed by the wind .
Nicholas Shepherd , John Mansell , and John Grey - because on that day they met a woman named Isabella Tryse , who was the midwife at the birth of the said Elizabeth , and she told them of her birth and baptism .
Robert Comber and John Duke because they met Thomas Elyot , the chaplain of Ernle , who told them he had baptised the said Elizabeth , in Ernle church on that day . 3
1 The writ was sued out by Sir John and the inquisition was held the day after Shelley , whom she had already , though so she was fourteen ; her husband lost no young , married . She ob . 30th June , 1513 , time therefore in acquiring her
Sakam" in Shermanbury also settled on said William and Alice. Manor of Hoope in Rudgwick settled 16 Hen. VIII. on himself for life and afterwards on Richard Shelley and Mary his wife. Lands called "Lymeborn" in Fittleworth,"Wayhurst" in Rudgwick, "la Lee"3 The writ was dated 8th Nov . 1474 , 3 Inq . 15 Edw . IV . No . 66 ..
https://www.sussexrecordsociety.org/olb/srs014/
Citation
Sussex Record Society Volume 14 page 201.
Notes
JOHN SHELLEY,
esq.
Vol. 46, No. 14.
Steyning, 29 June 19 Hen. VIII. Died 3 Jan. 18 Hen. VIII. Heir, son William Shelley, the Judge, aged 48 and more.
Lands. Manor of Applesham, advowson of and lands in Combes settled 26 Sept. 18 Hen. VIII. on Alice, wife of William Shelley his son and heir, remainder to William S. and his heirs. Moiety of manor and advowson of Denton in Denton and "
advowson of the chapel of Wootton, and lands in Patching and Heene, lands called "Wantley" in Sullington. So seized she married John Shelley, and they 10 July 3 Hen. VIII. on the marriage of their son William S. with Alice, one of the sisters and heirsELIZABETH, widow of JOHN SHELLEY, esq., and daughter and heir of John Michelgrove, otherwise called John Fawkenor, esq. Vol. 46, No. 15.
Steyning, 29 June 19 Hen. VIII. Died 30 July 5 Hen. VIII. Heir, son William Shelley, now one of the Justices of the King's Bench, and aged 48 and more.
Lands called " Michelgrove " and other lands in Clapham, " Bulshams " in Yapton, lands in Barnham, manor of Benstede, lands in Fittleworth, Petworth, Stopham, Pulborough, Cbichester, Funtingdon, Bosham, Wootton near Fakington. and
Richard Lewknor of Sherfield Sussex and "unknown" daughter of Michelgrove. This information comes from "Sussex Archaeological Collections, History and Antiquities of the County". Looking at the site "Our Royal Titled and Commoner Ancestors", I can seeHi All,
I was very pleased to find these Michelgrove messages and I have been reading them with great interest. I am researching the Lewknor line of Sussex. Bennet Lewknor (whose 2nd husband was Thomas Twisden, direct ancestor) was the daughter of
is referred to a lot in Wikitrees.I am a bit confused as you say in the inquisition post mortem of John Michelgrove III (died 1458/9) his widow was Joan?? I thought (according to the above messages) his wife was Mary/Anne d 1478.
According to the website "Our Royal Titled and Commoner Ancestors", John Michelgrove & Mary Sidney have 2 daus, Elizabeth & unknown. No mention of son John d1459. I think maybe the Elizabeth is the dau of John IV. A mistake maybe. This tree
would seem from the information given above that maybe the family tree in the Visitation of Sussex (Lewknor tree) is incorrect? Maybe Miss Michelgrove was the daughter of John senior and Joan? I have been playing around with the dates and both scenariosGoing back to the Joan & Mary/Anne Sidney question, am I reading this incorrectly?
Thanks in advance
GillianHi Again,
Yes I think that I read the previous messages incorrectly! Sorry about that.
For my Lewknor line, the mysterious Miss Michelgrove is said to be the daughter of John Michelgrove and Mary Sidney. However, the sole descendent of John and Mary was Elizabeth their daughter. I do not know how my Miss Michelgrove fits in. It
HiDoes anyone have any information?
Thanks
HiCould you specify an exact source citation so I can look it up and see what it actually statesHiGillianBennet Lewknor was the daughter of Richard /Lewknor/ of Brambletye He in turn was the son of Thomas /Lewknor/ of Horsted Keynes, Sussex; Knt by Philippe /Dallingridge/
I have Richard Lewknor of Sherfield and not Brambletyre and Richard was the son of Roger Lewknor and Eleanor Camoys.
Sussex Archaeological Collections.
Gillian
The source is Sussex Archaeological Collections P98.
Regards
GillianWhy are you taking shortcuts?
SAC has dozens and dozens of volumes.
Which volume
On Friday, 24 June 2022 at 17:34:57 UTC+2, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:post mortem gives the age of his son and heir, John the younger as 22 years and 11 months on 22 April 1459. The inquisitions taken on the deaths of these two, in 1459 and 1461 show almost identical land holdings. In Kent these were the manor of
On Friday, June 24, 2022 at 7:13:13 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Wednesday, 22 June 2022 at 22:11:29 UTC+2, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, June 22, 2022 at 10:18:59 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Monday, 20 June 2022 at 14:56:21 UTC+2, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 7:00:20 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Thursday, 16 June 2022 at 13:38:17 UTC+2, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Sunday, 24 October 2021 at 01:34:07 UTC+2, macken...@gmail.com wrote:
Here are my notes on his son
Here are my notes on the son.
JOHN MICHELGROVE IV was born in March 1436, probably in either Sussex or Kent, to John Michelgrove (1413-1459) and Joan. It is said he apparently married Mary/Anne? Sidney about 1450 of Kent, England.
John Michelgrove was a young man of 23 years when he died on 21 November 1459, only ten months after the death of his father John Michelgrove, esquire the elder. The later died on 27 January 1458/9 [27 Jan 1459 n.s.] and his inquisition
to Joan wife of the late John Michelgrove III of a third part of Wotton for the term of her natural life. John the younger is referred to as son and heir of John Senior in the assignment, but not specifically of Joan the widow.The main difference between the land holdings of the father and son is that the son held only two parts of Fauconherst and Wotton. At the the time of his fathers inquisition in 1458/9 the Escheator for Sussex made an assignment of dower
about 1478, England, age 50 [further sources needed].It is not known where he was born or died, but it is believed he resided at Michelgrove House, Sussex.
MARY/ANNE? SIDNEY, his apparent wife, was born about 1428 of Kent, England, to William Sydney of Kingsham (1390-1449) and Cecily Michell (1390-1447.) She married John Michelgrove about 1450 of Sussex, England. Mary Sidney passed away
her sister Margaret Scardevyle. But by 1428 William Sydney was said to possess a 1/3 share of the manor. John Michelgrove III father of the current John acted as a third party to the conveyance of this Manor to William Sydney and his heir males by IsabelHowever, it should be noted that the Michelgroves had acquired by 1414 a half share of the manor of Kingsham through their grandmother Joan Whegleton, who apparently was a descendant and heir of the Sydneys. The other half was held by
Stationery off., by Eyre and Spottiswoode, 18991920.v5 p157John junior’s SOLE daughter and heir was Elizabeth Michelgrove who was born 28 March 1460 some 3 months after her father died.
References
Great Britain. Public Record Office, and H. C. Maxwell Lyte. Inquisitions And Assessments Relating to Feudal Aids: With Other Analogous Documents Preserved In the Public Record Office. A.D. 1284-1431. London: Printed for H. M.
Accessed 17 Oct. 2021."Sussex Fines: 21." 25 Henry VI https://www.british-history.ac.uk/feet-of-fines-sussex/vol3/pp255-260#h3-0003. Accessed 20 Oct. 2021.
"#254 - Calendar of the Fine rolls preserved in the Public ... v.19 1452-1461.." Full View https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293024017919&view=1up&seq=254&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#610 - Calendar of the patent rolls preserved in the Public ... 1452-1461 Henry VI v.6. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015031079547&view=1up&seq=610&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove.
2021."Catalogue description Michelgrove, John Kent, Sussex." Discovery https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C6544445. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#107 - Calendar of the patent rolls. 1461-1467. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293027026339&view=1up&seq=107&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#294 - Calendar of the Fine rolls preserved in the Public ... v.19 1452-1461. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293024017919&view=1up&seq=294&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct.
had been at her baptism at Ernle on that day ."#28 - Proofs of age of Sussex families, temp. Edw. II to Edw. IV.." Full View https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.hx1fkv&view=1up&seq=28&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 16 Oct. 2021.
Notes
MICHELGROVE . - Proof of the age of ELIZABETH , daughter and heir of John MICHELGROVE , Taken at Steyning , 29th March , 15 Edw . IV . ( 1475 ) .
John Wolff deposes that the said Elizabeth is upwards of fourteen years old , for she was born at Ernle , on March 28th , 39 Hen . VI . ( 1461 ) ; and that Elizabeth , wife of Thomas Taweke , Esq . , one of her godmothers , told him she
her or her and was buried at Clapham .John Remys deposes that she is fourteen years old , because on the day abovesaid he met John Ernle , her godfather , going to Ernle church to her baptism .
John Hunt recollects the day , because he rode with Joan Ernle , the other godmother , to Ernle church on that day to the baptism .
John Broker — because the godfather and godmothers , and many other persons , came into his house on that day , directly after the baptism of the said Elizabeth , to eat and to drink , and they told him of it .
Richard Millward — because on that day John Ernle , the godfather , met him and told him of the baptism .
John Ederuhem because the horses of John Ernle , the god father , stood at his house on that day , and after the baptism he told him he was the godfather .
William Atte Lee because he was in Ernle church on that day to hear mass .
Richard French - - because in going to the church to see the baptism , he fell with his right leg against a ladder , in the parish of Ernle , and broke his leg , which he shall never forget .
William Clement – because the day was very windy , and part of his house was unroofed by the wind .
Nicholas Shepherd , John Mansell , and John Grey - because on that day they met a woman named Isabella Tryse , who was the midwife at the birth of the said Elizabeth , and she told them of her birth and baptism .
Robert Comber and John Duke because they met Thomas Elyot , the chaplain of Ernle , who told them he had baptised the said Elizabeth , in Ernle church on that day . 3
1 The writ was sued out by Sir John and the inquisition was held the day after Shelley , whom she had already , though so she was fourteen ; her husband lost no young , married . She ob . 30th June , 1513 , time therefore in acquiring
Sakam" in Shermanbury also settled on said William and Alice. Manor of Hoope in Rudgwick settled 16 Hen. VIII. on himself for life and afterwards on Richard Shelley and Mary his wife. Lands called "Lymeborn" in Fittleworth,"Wayhurst" in Rudgwick, "la Lee"3 The writ was dated 8th Nov . 1474 , 3 Inq . 15 Edw . IV . No . 66 ..
https://www.sussexrecordsociety.org/olb/srs014/
Citation
Sussex Record Society Volume 14 page 201.
Notes
JOHN SHELLEY,
esq.
Vol. 46, No. 14.
Steyning, 29 June 19 Hen. VIII. Died 3 Jan. 18 Hen. VIII. Heir, son William Shelley, the Judge, aged 48 and more. Lands. Manor of Applesham, advowson of and lands in Combes settled 26 Sept. 18 Hen. VIII. on Alice, wife of William Shelley his son and heir, remainder to William S. and his heirs. Moiety of manor and advowson of Denton in Denton and "
advowson of the chapel of Wootton, and lands in Patching and Heene, lands called "Wantley" in Sullington. So seized she married John Shelley, and they 10 July 3 Hen. VIII. on the marriage of their son William S. with Alice, one of the sisters and heirsELIZABETH, widow of JOHN SHELLEY, esq., and daughter and heir of John Michelgrove, otherwise called John Fawkenor, esq. Vol. 46, No. 15.
Steyning, 29 June 19 Hen. VIII. Died 30 July 5 Hen. VIII. Heir, son William Shelley, now one of the Justices of the King's Bench, and aged 48 and more.
Lands called " Michelgrove " and other lands in Clapham, " Bulshams " in Yapton, lands in Barnham, manor of Benstede, lands in Fittleworth, Petworth, Stopham, Pulborough, Cbichester, Funtingdon, Bosham, Wootton near Fakington. and
of Richard Lewknor of Sherfield Sussex and "unknown" daughter of Michelgrove. This information comes from "Sussex Archaeological Collections, History and Antiquities of the County". Looking at the site "Our Royal Titled and Commoner Ancestors", I can seeHi All,
I was very pleased to find these Michelgrove messages and I have been reading them with great interest. I am researching the Lewknor line of Sussex. Bennet Lewknor (whose 2nd husband was Thomas Twisden, direct ancestor) was the daughter
tree is referred to a lot in Wikitrees.I am a bit confused as you say in the inquisition post mortem of John Michelgrove III (died 1458/9) his widow was Joan?? I thought (according to the above messages) his wife was Mary/Anne d 1478.
According to the website "Our Royal Titled and Commoner Ancestors", John Michelgrove & Mary Sidney have 2 daus, Elizabeth & unknown. No mention of son John d1459. I think maybe the Elizabeth is the dau of John IV. A mistake maybe. This
It would seem from the information given above that maybe the family tree in the Visitation of Sussex (Lewknor tree) is incorrect? Maybe Miss Michelgrove was the daughter of John senior and Joan? I have been playing around with the dates and bothGoing back to the Joan & Mary/Anne Sidney question, am I reading this incorrectly?
Thanks in advance
GillianHi Again,
Yes I think that I read the previous messages incorrectly! Sorry about that.
For my Lewknor line, the mysterious Miss Michelgrove is said to be the daughter of John Michelgrove and Mary Sidney. However, the sole descendent of John and Mary was Elizabeth their daughter. I do not know how my Miss Michelgrove fits in.
Does anyone have any information?
Thanks
HiCould you specify an exact source citation so I can look it up and see what it actually statesHiGillianBennet Lewknor was the daughter of Richard /Lewknor/ of Brambletye He in turn was the son of Thomas /Lewknor/ of Horsted Keynes, Sussex; Knt by Philippe /Dallingridge/
I have Richard Lewknor of Sherfield and not Brambletyre and Richard was the son of Roger Lewknor and Eleanor Camoys.
Sussex Archaeological Collections.
Gillian
The source is Sussex Archaeological Collections P98.
Regards
HiGillianWhy are you taking shortcuts?
SAC has dozens and dozens of volumes.
Which volume
Sorry, Volume 3.
Regards
Gillian
On Saturday, June 25, 2022 at 10:48:16 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:inquisition post mortem gives the age of his son and heir, John the younger as 22 years and 11 months on 22 April 1459. The inquisitions taken on the deaths of these two, in 1459 and 1461 show almost identical land holdings. In Kent these were the manor
On Friday, 24 June 2022 at 17:34:57 UTC+2, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, June 24, 2022 at 7:13:13 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Wednesday, 22 June 2022 at 22:11:29 UTC+2, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, June 22, 2022 at 10:18:59 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Monday, 20 June 2022 at 14:56:21 UTC+2, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 7:00:20 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Thursday, 16 June 2022 at 13:38:17 UTC+2, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Sunday, 24 October 2021 at 01:34:07 UTC+2, macken...@gmail.com wrote:
Here are my notes on his son
Here are my notes on the son.
JOHN MICHELGROVE IV was born in March 1436, probably in either Sussex or Kent, to John Michelgrove (1413-1459) and Joan. It is said he apparently married Mary/Anne? Sidney about 1450 of Kent, England.
John Michelgrove was a young man of 23 years when he died on 21 November 1459, only ten months after the death of his father John Michelgrove, esquire the elder. The later died on 27 January 1458/9 [27 Jan 1459 n.s.] and his
dower to Joan wife of the late John Michelgrove III of a third part of Wotton for the term of her natural life. John the younger is referred to as son and heir of John Senior in the assignment, but not specifically of Joan the widow.The main difference between the land holdings of the father and son is that the son held only two parts of Fauconherst and Wotton. At the the time of his fathers inquisition in 1458/9 the Escheator for Sussex made an assignment of
about 1478, England, age 50 [further sources needed].It is not known where he was born or died, but it is believed he resided at Michelgrove House, Sussex.
MARY/ANNE? SIDNEY, his apparent wife, was born about 1428 of Kent, England, to William Sydney of Kingsham (1390-1449) and Cecily Michell (1390-1447.) She married John Michelgrove about 1450 of Sussex, England. Mary Sidney passed away
her sister Margaret Scardevyle. But by 1428 William Sydney was said to possess a 1/3 share of the manor. John Michelgrove III father of the current John acted as a third party to the conveyance of this Manor to William Sydney and his heir males by IsabelHowever, it should be noted that the Michelgroves had acquired by 1414 a half share of the manor of Kingsham through their grandmother Joan Whegleton, who apparently was a descendant and heir of the Sydneys. The other half was held by
Stationery off., by Eyre and Spottiswoode, 18991920.v5 p157John junior’s SOLE daughter and heir was Elizabeth Michelgrove who was born 28 March 1460 some 3 months after her father died.
References
Great Britain. Public Record Office, and H. C. Maxwell Lyte. Inquisitions And Assessments Relating to Feudal Aids: With Other Analogous Documents Preserved In the Public Record Office. A.D. 1284-1431. London: Printed for H. M.
Accessed 17 Oct. 2021."Sussex Fines: 21." 25 Henry VI https://www.british-history.ac.uk/feet-of-fines-sussex/vol3/pp255-260#h3-0003. Accessed 20 Oct. 2021.
"#254 - Calendar of the Fine rolls preserved in the Public ... v.19 1452-1461.." Full View https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293024017919&view=1up&seq=254&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#610 - Calendar of the patent rolls preserved in the Public ... 1452-1461 Henry VI v.6. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015031079547&view=1up&seq=610&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove.
Oct. 2021."Catalogue description Michelgrove, John Kent, Sussex." Discovery https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C6544445. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#107 - Calendar of the patent rolls. 1461-1467. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293027026339&view=1up&seq=107&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#294 - Calendar of the Fine rolls preserved in the Public ... v.19 1452-1461. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293024017919&view=1up&seq=294&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17
she had been at her baptism at Ernle on that day ."#28 - Proofs of age of Sussex families, temp. Edw. II to Edw. IV.." Full View https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.hx1fkv&view=1up&seq=28&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 16 Oct. 2021.
Notes
MICHELGROVE . - Proof of the age of ELIZABETH , daughter and heir of John MICHELGROVE , Taken at Steyning , 29th March , 15 Edw . IV . ( 1475 ) .
John Wolff deposes that the said Elizabeth is upwards of fourteen years old , for she was born at Ernle , on March 28th , 39 Hen . VI . ( 1461 ) ; and that Elizabeth , wife of Thomas Taweke , Esq . , one of her godmothers , told him
her or her and was buried at Clapham .John Remys deposes that she is fourteen years old , because on the day abovesaid he met John Ernle , her godfather , going to Ernle church to her baptism .
John Hunt recollects the day , because he rode with Joan Ernle , the other godmother , to Ernle church on that day to the baptism .
John Broker — because the godfather and godmothers , and many other persons , came into his house on that day , directly after the baptism of the said Elizabeth , to eat and to drink , and they told him of it .
Richard Millward — because on that day John Ernle , the godfather , met him and told him of the baptism .
John Ederuhem because the horses of John Ernle , the god father , stood at his house on that day , and after the baptism he told him he was the godfather .
William Atte Lee because he was in Ernle church on that day to hear mass .
Richard French - - because in going to the church to see the baptism , he fell with his right leg against a ladder , in the parish of Ernle , and broke his leg , which he shall never forget .
William Clement – because the day was very windy , and part of his house was unroofed by the wind .
Nicholas Shepherd , John Mansell , and John Grey - because on that day they met a woman named Isabella Tryse , who was the midwife at the birth of the said Elizabeth , and she told them of her birth and baptism .
Robert Comber and John Duke because they met Thomas Elyot , the chaplain of Ernle , who told them he had baptised the said Elizabeth , in Ernle church on that day . 3
1 The writ was sued out by Sir John and the inquisition was held the day after Shelley , whom she had already , though so she was fourteen ; her husband lost no young , married . She ob . 30th June , 1513 , time therefore in acquiring
Sakam" in Shermanbury also settled on said William and Alice. Manor of Hoope in Rudgwick settled 16 Hen. VIII. on himself for life and afterwards on Richard Shelley and Mary his wife. Lands called "Lymeborn" in Fittleworth,"Wayhurst" in Rudgwick, "la Lee"3 The writ was dated 8th Nov . 1474 , 3 Inq . 15 Edw . IV . No . 66 ..
https://www.sussexrecordsociety.org/olb/srs014/
Citation
Sussex Record Society Volume 14 page 201.
Notes
JOHN SHELLEY,
esq.
Vol. 46, No. 14.
Steyning, 29 June 19 Hen. VIII. Died 3 Jan. 18 Hen. VIII. Heir, son William Shelley, the Judge, aged 48 and more. Lands. Manor of Applesham, advowson of and lands in Combes settled 26 Sept. 18 Hen. VIII. on Alice, wife of William Shelley his son and heir, remainder to William S. and his heirs. Moiety of manor and advowson of Denton in Denton and "
advowson of the chapel of Wootton, and lands in Patching and Heene, lands called "Wantley" in Sullington. So seized she married John Shelley, and they 10 July 3 Hen. VIII. on the marriage of their son William S. with Alice, one of the sisters and heirsELIZABETH, widow of JOHN SHELLEY, esq., and daughter and heir of John Michelgrove, otherwise called John Fawkenor, esq. Vol. 46, No. 15.
Steyning, 29 June 19 Hen. VIII. Died 30 July 5 Hen. VIII. Heir, son William Shelley, now one of the Justices of the King's Bench, and aged 48 and more.
Lands called " Michelgrove " and other lands in Clapham, " Bulshams " in Yapton, lands in Barnham, manor of Benstede, lands in Fittleworth, Petworth, Stopham, Pulborough, Cbichester, Funtingdon, Bosham, Wootton near Fakington. and
of Richard Lewknor of Sherfield Sussex and "unknown" daughter of Michelgrove. This information comes from "Sussex Archaeological Collections, History and Antiquities of the County". Looking at the site "Our Royal Titled and Commoner Ancestors", I can seeHi All,
I was very pleased to find these Michelgrove messages and I have been reading them with great interest. I am researching the Lewknor line of Sussex. Bennet Lewknor (whose 2nd husband was Thomas Twisden, direct ancestor) was the daughter
tree is referred to a lot in Wikitrees.I am a bit confused as you say in the inquisition post mortem of John Michelgrove III (died 1458/9) his widow was Joan?? I thought (according to the above messages) his wife was Mary/Anne d 1478.
According to the website "Our Royal Titled and Commoner Ancestors", John Michelgrove & Mary Sidney have 2 daus, Elizabeth & unknown. No mention of son John d1459. I think maybe the Elizabeth is the dau of John IV. A mistake maybe. This
It would seem from the information given above that maybe the family tree in the Visitation of Sussex (Lewknor tree) is incorrect? Maybe Miss Michelgrove was the daughter of John senior and Joan? I have been playing around with the dates and bothGoing back to the Joan & Mary/Anne Sidney question, am I reading this incorrectly?
Thanks in advance
GillianHi Again,
Yes I think that I read the previous messages incorrectly! Sorry about that.
For my Lewknor line, the mysterious Miss Michelgrove is said to be the daughter of John Michelgrove and Mary Sidney. However, the sole descendent of John and Mary was Elizabeth their daughter. I do not know how my Miss Michelgrove fits in.
this.Does anyone have any information?
Thanks
HiCould you specify an exact source citation so I can look it up and see what it actually statesHiGillianBennet Lewknor was the daughter of Richard /Lewknor/ of Brambletye
He in turn was the son of Thomas /Lewknor/ of Horsted Keynes, Sussex; Knt by Philippe /Dallingridge/
I have Richard Lewknor of Sherfield and not Brambletyre and Richard was the son of Roger Lewknor and Eleanor Camoys.
Sussex Archaeological Collections.
Gillian
The source is Sussex Archaeological Collections P98.
Regards
HiGillianWhy are you taking shortcuts?
SAC has dozens and dozens of volumes.
Which volume
Sorry, Volume 3.
Regards
GillianIt turns out the SAC reference is not independent. It merely cites The Baronetage article 1741 by wotton, kimber, johnson which you already cited. However in addition they add this placename which is not in the original, without citing how they know
At any rate, it's not a scholarly article exactly, but merely a descent chart without the supporting references
On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 2:41:59 AM UTC+1, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:inquisition post mortem gives the age of his son and heir, John the younger as 22 years and 11 months on 22 April 1459. The inquisitions taken on the deaths of these two, in 1459 and 1461 show almost identical land holdings. In Kent these were the manor
On Saturday, June 25, 2022 at 10:48:16 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Friday, 24 June 2022 at 17:34:57 UTC+2, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, June 24, 2022 at 7:13:13 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Wednesday, 22 June 2022 at 22:11:29 UTC+2, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, June 22, 2022 at 10:18:59 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Monday, 20 June 2022 at 14:56:21 UTC+2, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 7:00:20 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Thursday, 16 June 2022 at 13:38:17 UTC+2, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Sunday, 24 October 2021 at 01:34:07 UTC+2, macken...@gmail.com wrote:
Here are my notes on his son
Here are my notes on the son.
JOHN MICHELGROVE IV was born in March 1436, probably in either Sussex or Kent, to John Michelgrove (1413-1459) and Joan. It is said he apparently married Mary/Anne? Sidney about 1450 of Kent, England.
John Michelgrove was a young man of 23 years when he died on 21 November 1459, only ten months after the death of his father John Michelgrove, esquire the elder. The later died on 27 January 1458/9 [27 Jan 1459 n.s.] and his
dower to Joan wife of the late John Michelgrove III of a third part of Wotton for the term of her natural life. John the younger is referred to as son and heir of John Senior in the assignment, but not specifically of Joan the widow.The main difference between the land holdings of the father and son is that the son held only two parts of Fauconherst and Wotton. At the the time of his fathers inquisition in 1458/9 the Escheator for Sussex made an assignment of
away about 1478, England, age 50 [further sources needed].It is not known where he was born or died, but it is believed he resided at Michelgrove House, Sussex.
MARY/ANNE? SIDNEY, his apparent wife, was born about 1428 of Kent, England, to William Sydney of Kingsham (1390-1449) and Cecily Michell (1390-1447.) She married John Michelgrove about 1450 of Sussex, England. Mary Sidney passed
by her sister Margaret Scardevyle. But by 1428 William Sydney was said to possess a 1/3 share of the manor. John Michelgrove III father of the current John acted as a third party to the conveyance of this Manor to William Sydney and his heir males byHowever, it should be noted that the Michelgroves had acquired by 1414 a half share of the manor of Kingsham through their grandmother Joan Whegleton, who apparently was a descendant and heir of the Sydneys. The other half was held
Stationery off., by Eyre and Spottiswoode, 18991920.v5 p157John junior’s SOLE daughter and heir was Elizabeth Michelgrove who was born 28 March 1460 some 3 months after her father died.
References
Great Britain. Public Record Office, and H. C. Maxwell Lyte. Inquisitions And Assessments Relating to Feudal Aids: With Other Analogous Documents Preserved In the Public Record Office. A.D. 1284-1431. London: Printed for H. M.
Accessed 17 Oct. 2021."Sussex Fines: 21." 25 Henry VI https://www.british-history.ac.uk/feet-of-fines-sussex/vol3/pp255-260#h3-0003. Accessed 20 Oct. 2021.
"#254 - Calendar of the Fine rolls preserved in the Public ... v.19 1452-1461.." Full View https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293024017919&view=1up&seq=254&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#610 - Calendar of the patent rolls preserved in the Public ... 1452-1461 Henry VI v.6. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015031079547&view=1up&seq=610&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove.
Oct. 2021."Catalogue description Michelgrove, John Kent, Sussex." Discovery https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C6544445. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#107 - Calendar of the patent rolls. 1461-1467. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293027026339&view=1up&seq=107&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#294 - Calendar of the Fine rolls preserved in the Public ... v.19 1452-1461. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293024017919&view=1up&seq=294&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17
she had been at her baptism at Ernle on that day ."#28 - Proofs of age of Sussex families, temp. Edw. II to Edw. IV.." Full View https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.hx1fkv&view=1up&seq=28&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 16 Oct. 2021.
Notes
MICHELGROVE . - Proof of the age of ELIZABETH , daughter and heir of John MICHELGROVE , Taken at Steyning , 29th March , 15 Edw . IV . ( 1475 ) .
John Wolff deposes that the said Elizabeth is upwards of fourteen years old , for she was born at Ernle , on March 28th , 39 Hen . VI . ( 1461 ) ; and that Elizabeth , wife of Thomas Taweke , Esq . , one of her godmothers , told him
acquiring her or her and was buried at Clapham .John Remys deposes that she is fourteen years old , because on the day abovesaid he met John Ernle , her godfather , going to Ernle church to her baptism .
John Hunt recollects the day , because he rode with Joan Ernle , the other godmother , to Ernle church on that day to the baptism .
John Broker — because the godfather and godmothers , and many other persons , came into his house on that day , directly after the baptism of the said Elizabeth , to eat and to drink , and they told him of it .
Richard Millward — because on that day John Ernle , the godfather , met him and told him of the baptism .
John Ederuhem because the horses of John Ernle , the god father , stood at his house on that day , and after the baptism he told him he was the godfather .
William Atte Lee because he was in Ernle church on that day to hear mass .
Richard French - - because in going to the church to see the baptism , he fell with his right leg against a ladder , in the parish of Ernle , and broke his leg , which he shall never forget .
William Clement – because the day was very windy , and part of his house was unroofed by the wind .
Nicholas Shepherd , John Mansell , and John Grey - because on that day they met a woman named Isabella Tryse , who was the midwife at the birth of the said Elizabeth , and she told them of her birth and baptism .
Robert Comber and John Duke because they met Thomas Elyot , the chaplain of Ernle , who told them he had baptised the said Elizabeth , in Ernle church on that day . 3
1 The writ was sued out by Sir John and the inquisition was held the day after Shelley , whom she had already , though so she was fourteen ; her husband lost no young , married . She ob . 30th June , 1513 , time therefore in
and "Sakam" in Shermanbury also settled on said William and Alice. Manor of Hoope in Rudgwick settled 16 Hen. VIII. on himself for life and afterwards on Richard Shelley and Mary his wife. Lands called "Lymeborn" in Fittleworth,"Wayhurst" in Rudgwick, "3 The writ was dated 8th Nov . 1474 , 3 Inq . 15 Edw . IV . No . 66 ..
https://www.sussexrecordsociety.org/olb/srs014/
Citation
Sussex Record Society Volume 14 page 201.
Notes
JOHN SHELLEY,
esq.
Vol. 46, No. 14.
Steyning, 29 June 19 Hen. VIII. Died 3 Jan. 18 Hen. VIII.
Heir, son William Shelley, the Judge, aged 48 and more. Lands. Manor of Applesham, advowson of and lands in Combes settled 26 Sept. 18 Hen. VIII. on Alice, wife of William Shelley his son and heir, remainder to William S. and his heirs. Moiety of manor and advowson of Denton in Denton
advowson of the chapel of Wootton, and lands in Patching and Heene, lands called "Wantley" in Sullington. So seized she married John Shelley, and they 10 July 3 Hen. VIII. on the marriage of their son William S. with Alice, one of the sisters and heirsELIZABETH, widow of JOHN SHELLEY, esq., and daughter and heir of John Michelgrove, otherwise called John Fawkenor, esq. Vol. 46, No. 15.
Steyning, 29 June 19 Hen. VIII. Died 30 July 5 Hen. VIII.
Heir, son William Shelley, now one of the Justices of the King's Bench, and aged 48 and more.
Lands called " Michelgrove " and other lands in Clapham, " Bulshams " in Yapton, lands in Barnham, manor of Benstede, lands in Fittleworth, Petworth, Stopham, Pulborough, Cbichester, Funtingdon, Bosham, Wootton near Fakington. and
daughter of Richard Lewknor of Sherfield Sussex and "unknown" daughter of Michelgrove. This information comes from "Sussex Archaeological Collections, History and Antiquities of the County". Looking at the site "Our Royal Titled and Commoner Ancestors",Hi All,
I was very pleased to find these Michelgrove messages and I have been reading them with great interest. I am researching the Lewknor line of Sussex. Bennet Lewknor (whose 2nd husband was Thomas Twisden, direct ancestor) was the
This tree is referred to a lot in Wikitrees.I am a bit confused as you say in the inquisition post mortem of John Michelgrove III (died 1458/9) his widow was Joan?? I thought (according to the above messages) his wife was Mary/Anne d 1478.
According to the website "Our Royal Titled and Commoner Ancestors", John Michelgrove & Mary Sidney have 2 daus, Elizabeth & unknown. No mention of son John d1459. I think maybe the Elizabeth is the dau of John IV. A mistake maybe.
in. It would seem from the information given above that maybe the family tree in the Visitation of Sussex (Lewknor tree) is incorrect? Maybe Miss Michelgrove was the daughter of John senior and Joan? I have been playing around with the dates and bothGoing back to the Joan & Mary/Anne Sidney question, am I reading this incorrectly?
Thanks in advance
GillianHi Again,
Yes I think that I read the previous messages incorrectly! Sorry about that.
For my Lewknor line, the mysterious Miss Michelgrove is said to be the daughter of John Michelgrove and Mary Sidney. However, the sole descendent of John and Mary was Elizabeth their daughter. I do not know how my Miss Michelgrove fits
this.Does anyone have any information?
Thanks
HiCould you specify an exact source citation so I can look it up and see what it actually statesHiGillianBennet Lewknor was the daughter of Richard /Lewknor/ of Brambletye
He in turn was the son of Thomas /Lewknor/ of Horsted Keynes, Sussex; Knt by Philippe /Dallingridge/
I have Richard Lewknor of Sherfield and not Brambletyre and Richard was the son of Roger Lewknor and Eleanor Camoys.
Sussex Archaeological Collections.
Gillian
The source is Sussex Archaeological Collections P98.
Regards
HiGillianWhy are you taking shortcuts?
SAC has dozens and dozens of volumes.
Which volume
Sorry, Volume 3.
Regards
GillianIt turns out the SAC reference is not independent. It merely cites The Baronetage article 1741 by wotton, kimber, johnson which you already cited. However in addition they add this placename which is not in the original, without citing how they know
At any rate, it's not a scholarly article exactly, but merely a descent chart without the supporting referencesI also have a ref to SAC Vol 137 (1999) pp 153-9, which may have more, but unfortunately I have not kept details.
On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 1:37:02 AM UTC+10, gillianm...@gmail.com wrote:inquisition post mortem gives the age of his son and heir, John the younger as 22 years and 11 months on 22 April 1459. The inquisitions taken on the deaths of these two, in 1459 and 1461 show almost identical land holdings. In Kent these were the manor
On Saturday, 2 July 2022 at 14:13:32 UTC+2, adrianc...@btinternet.com wrote:
On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 2:41:59 AM UTC+1, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, June 25, 2022 at 10:48:16 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Friday, 24 June 2022 at 17:34:57 UTC+2, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, June 24, 2022 at 7:13:13 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Wednesday, 22 June 2022 at 22:11:29 UTC+2, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, June 22, 2022 at 10:18:59 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Monday, 20 June 2022 at 14:56:21 UTC+2, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 7:00:20 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Thursday, 16 June 2022 at 13:38:17 UTC+2, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Sunday, 24 October 2021 at 01:34:07 UTC+2, macken...@gmail.com wrote:
Here are my notes on his son
Here are my notes on the son.
JOHN MICHELGROVE IV was born in March 1436, probably in either Sussex or Kent, to John Michelgrove (1413-1459) and Joan. It is said he apparently married Mary/Anne? Sidney about 1450 of Kent, England.
John Michelgrove was a young man of 23 years when he died on 21 November 1459, only ten months after the death of his father John Michelgrove, esquire the elder. The later died on 27 January 1458/9 [27 Jan 1459 n.s.] and his
of dower to Joan wife of the late John Michelgrove III of a third part of Wotton for the term of her natural life. John the younger is referred to as son and heir of John Senior in the assignment, but not specifically of Joan the widow.The main difference between the land holdings of the father and son is that the son held only two parts of Fauconherst and Wotton. At the the time of his fathers inquisition in 1458/9 the Escheator for Sussex made an assignment
away about 1478, England, age 50 [further sources needed].It is not known where he was born or died, but it is believed he resided at Michelgrove House, Sussex.
MARY/ANNE? SIDNEY, his apparent wife, was born about 1428 of Kent, England, to William Sydney of Kingsham (1390-1449) and Cecily Michell (1390-1447.) She married John Michelgrove about 1450 of Sussex, England. Mary Sidney passed
held by her sister Margaret Scardevyle. But by 1428 William Sydney was said to possess a 1/3 share of the manor. John Michelgrove III father of the current John acted as a third party to the conveyance of this Manor to William Sydney and his heir malesHowever, it should be noted that the Michelgroves had acquired by 1414 a half share of the manor of Kingsham through their grandmother Joan Whegleton, who apparently was a descendant and heir of the Sydneys. The other half was
Stationery off., by Eyre and Spottiswoode, 18991920.v5 p157John junior’s SOLE daughter and heir was Elizabeth Michelgrove who was born 28 March 1460 some 3 months after her father died.
References
Great Britain. Public Record Office, and H. C. Maxwell Lyte. Inquisitions And Assessments Relating to Feudal Aids: With Other Analogous Documents Preserved In the Public Record Office. A.D. 1284-1431. London: Printed for H. M.
michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021."Sussex Fines: 21." 25 Henry VI https://www.british-history.ac.uk/feet-of-fines-sussex/vol3/pp255-260#h3-0003. Accessed 20 Oct. 2021.
"#254 - Calendar of the Fine rolls preserved in the Public ... v.19 1452-1461.." Full View https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293024017919&view=1up&seq=254&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#610 - Calendar of the patent rolls preserved in the Public ... 1452-1461 Henry VI v.6. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015031079547&view=1up&seq=610&skin=2021&q1=
Accessed 17 Oct. 2021."Catalogue description Michelgrove, John Kent, Sussex." Discovery https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C6544445. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#107 - Calendar of the patent rolls. 1461-1467. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293027026339&view=1up&seq=107&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#294 - Calendar of the Fine rolls preserved in the Public ... v.19 1452-1461. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293024017919&view=1up&seq=294&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove.
him she had been at her baptism at Ernle on that day ."#28 - Proofs of age of Sussex families, temp. Edw. II to Edw. IV.." Full View https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.hx1fkv&view=1up&seq=28&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 16 Oct. 2021.
Notes
MICHELGROVE . - Proof of the age of ELIZABETH , daughter and heir of John MICHELGROVE , Taken at Steyning , 29th March , 15 Edw . IV . ( 1475 ) .
John Wolff deposes that the said Elizabeth is upwards of fourteen years old , for she was born at Ernle , on March 28th , 39 Hen . VI . ( 1461 ) ; and that Elizabeth , wife of Thomas Taweke , Esq . , one of her godmothers , told
acquiring her or her and was buried at Clapham .John Remys deposes that she is fourteen years old , because on the day abovesaid he met John Ernle , her godfather , going to Ernle church to her baptism .
John Hunt recollects the day , because he rode with Joan Ernle , the other godmother , to Ernle church on that day to the baptism .
John Broker — because the godfather and godmothers , and many other persons , came into his house on that day , directly after the baptism of the said Elizabeth , to eat and to drink , and they told him of it .
Richard Millward — because on that day John Ernle , the godfather , met him and told him of the baptism .
John Ederuhem because the horses of John Ernle , the god father , stood at his house on that day , and after the baptism he told him he was the godfather .
William Atte Lee because he was in Ernle church on that day to hear mass .
Richard French - - because in going to the church to see the baptism , he fell with his right leg against a ladder , in the parish of Ernle , and broke his leg , which he shall never forget .
William Clement – because the day was very windy , and part of his house was unroofed by the wind .
Nicholas Shepherd , John Mansell , and John Grey - because on that day they met a woman named Isabella Tryse , who was the midwife at the birth of the said Elizabeth , and she told them of her birth and baptism .
Robert Comber and John Duke because they met Thomas Elyot , the chaplain of Ernle , who told them he had baptised the said Elizabeth , in Ernle church on that day . 3
1 The writ was sued out by Sir John and the inquisition was held the day after Shelley , whom she had already , though so she was fourteen ; her husband lost no young , married . She ob . 30th June , 1513 , time therefore in
Denton and "Sakam" in Shermanbury also settled on said William and Alice. Manor of Hoope in Rudgwick settled 16 Hen. VIII. on himself for life and afterwards on Richard Shelley and Mary his wife. Lands called "Lymeborn" in Fittleworth,"Wayhurst" in3 The writ was dated 8th Nov . 1474 , 3 Inq . 15 Edw . IV . No . 66 ..
https://www.sussexrecordsociety.org/olb/srs014/ Citation
Sussex Record Society Volume 14 page 201.
Notes
JOHN SHELLEY,
esq.
Vol. 46, No. 14.
Steyning, 29 June 19 Hen. VIII. Died 3 Jan. 18 Hen. VIII.
Heir, son William Shelley, the Judge, aged 48 and more.
Lands. Manor of Applesham, advowson of and lands in Combes settled 26 Sept. 18 Hen. VIII. on Alice, wife of William Shelley his son and heir, remainder to William S. and his heirs. Moiety of manor and advowson of Denton in
and advowson of the chapel of Wootton, and lands in Patching and Heene, lands called "Wantley" in Sullington. So seized she married John Shelley, and they 10 July 3 Hen. VIII. on the marriage of their son William S. with Alice, one of the sisters andELIZABETH, widow of JOHN SHELLEY, esq., and daughter and heir of John Michelgrove, otherwise called John Fawkenor, esq. Vol. 46, No. 15.
Steyning, 29 June 19 Hen. VIII. Died 30 July 5 Hen. VIII.
Heir, son William Shelley, now one of the Justices of the King's Bench, and aged 48 and more.
Lands called " Michelgrove " and other lands in Clapham, " Bulshams " in Yapton, lands in Barnham, manor of Benstede, lands in Fittleworth, Petworth, Stopham, Pulborough, Cbichester, Funtingdon, Bosham, Wootton near Fakington.
daughter of Richard Lewknor of Sherfield Sussex and "unknown" daughter of Michelgrove. This information comes from "Sussex Archaeological Collections, History and Antiquities of the County". Looking at the site "Our Royal Titled and Commoner Ancestors",Hi All,
I was very pleased to find these Michelgrove messages and I have been reading them with great interest. I am researching the Lewknor line of Sussex. Bennet Lewknor (whose 2nd husband was Thomas Twisden, direct ancestor) was the
This tree is referred to a lot in Wikitrees.I am a bit confused as you say in the inquisition post mortem of John Michelgrove III (died 1458/9) his widow was Joan?? I thought (according to the above messages) his wife was Mary/Anne d 1478.
According to the website "Our Royal Titled and Commoner Ancestors", John Michelgrove & Mary Sidney have 2 daus, Elizabeth & unknown. No mention of son John d1459. I think maybe the Elizabeth is the dau of John IV. A mistake maybe.
fits in. It would seem from the information given above that maybe the family tree in the Visitation of Sussex (Lewknor tree) is incorrect? Maybe Miss Michelgrove was the daughter of John senior and Joan? I have been playing around with the dates andGoing back to the Joan & Mary/Anne Sidney question, am I reading this incorrectly?
Thanks in advance
GillianHi Again,
Yes I think that I read the previous messages incorrectly! Sorry about that.
For my Lewknor line, the mysterious Miss Michelgrove is said to be the daughter of John Michelgrove and Mary Sidney. However, the sole descendent of John and Mary was Elizabeth their daughter. I do not know how my Miss Michelgrove
know this.Does anyone have any information?
Thanks
HiCould you specify an exact source citation so I can look it up and see what it actually statesHiGillianBennet Lewknor was the daughter of Richard /Lewknor/ of Brambletye
He in turn was the son of Thomas /Lewknor/ of Horsted Keynes, Sussex; Knt by Philippe /Dallingridge/
I have Richard Lewknor of Sherfield and not Brambletyre and Richard was the son of Roger Lewknor and Eleanor Camoys.
Sussex Archaeological Collections.
Gillian
The source is Sussex Archaeological Collections P98.
Regards
HiGillianWhy are you taking shortcuts?
SAC has dozens and dozens of volumes.
Which volume
Sorry, Volume 3.
Regards
GillianIt turns out the SAC reference is not independent. It merely cites The Baronetage article 1741 by wotton, kimber, johnson which you already cited. However in addition they add this placename which is not in the original, without citing how they
is not the Richard Lewknor I am interested in.Hi All,At any rate, it's not a scholarly article exactly, but merely a descent chart without the supporting referencesI also have a ref to SAC Vol 137 (1999) pp 153-9, which may have more, but unfortunately I have not kept details.
Thanks for replies. The SAC vol 137 article is very interesting about Sir John Lewknor son of Sir Thomas. Sir John was killed at the battle of Tewkesbury. A lot of info about his life and mentions his brother Richard of Brambletye. Unfortunately this
Richard. He is possibly written as Ricd but difficult to read. I can see sons Thomas, Roger, Roger the younger, Edward, George, Reynold & William. There is also a son in law George Baynbridge.There is a will for Sir Roger Lewknor the father written 23rd July and proved 28th Nov 1478. According to various trees online this will mentions that Roger had a son Richard. I have a copy of this will but I am having difficultly "seeing" the son
wardrobe. Two owners/heirs died mysteriously after his visitation to Sussex, the castle was then left without a male heir, a court case over the age of the young heiress was filed and then she married a Shelley (previously a Faulkner).I have no sources for Bennet Lewknor daughter of Richard and "Miss Michelgrove" except for the tree in SAC vol 3 which does not give any references.
Regardshttps://ancestors.familysearch.org/en/G3JW-51M/sir-john-de-michelgrove-de-fauconer-iii-1398-1459
Gillian
There may be a change of name from Michelgrove/Faulkner/Fauconer to Lewknor and Shelley as a result of the changes of fortune during the war of the roses. Apparently Michelgrove was seized for a time by Henry VIII, the funds used for his personal
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Michelgrove-1
kind regards,
Melodee
On Saturday, 2 July 2022 at 14:13:32 UTC+2, adrianc...@btinternet.com wrote:inquisition post mortem gives the age of his son and heir, John the younger as 22 years and 11 months on 22 April 1459. The inquisitions taken on the deaths of these two, in 1459 and 1461 show almost identical land holdings. In Kent these were the manor
On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 2:41:59 AM UTC+1, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, June 25, 2022 at 10:48:16 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Friday, 24 June 2022 at 17:34:57 UTC+2, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, June 24, 2022 at 7:13:13 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Wednesday, 22 June 2022 at 22:11:29 UTC+2, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, June 22, 2022 at 10:18:59 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Monday, 20 June 2022 at 14:56:21 UTC+2, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 7:00:20 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Thursday, 16 June 2022 at 13:38:17 UTC+2, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Sunday, 24 October 2021 at 01:34:07 UTC+2, macken...@gmail.com wrote:
Here are my notes on his son
Here are my notes on the son.
JOHN MICHELGROVE IV was born in March 1436, probably in either Sussex or Kent, to John Michelgrove (1413-1459) and Joan. It is said he apparently married Mary/Anne? Sidney about 1450 of Kent, England.
John Michelgrove was a young man of 23 years when he died on 21 November 1459, only ten months after the death of his father John Michelgrove, esquire the elder. The later died on 27 January 1458/9 [27 Jan 1459 n.s.] and his
dower to Joan wife of the late John Michelgrove III of a third part of Wotton for the term of her natural life. John the younger is referred to as son and heir of John Senior in the assignment, but not specifically of Joan the widow.The main difference between the land holdings of the father and son is that the son held only two parts of Fauconherst and Wotton. At the the time of his fathers inquisition in 1458/9 the Escheator for Sussex made an assignment of
away about 1478, England, age 50 [further sources needed].It is not known where he was born or died, but it is believed he resided at Michelgrove House, Sussex.
MARY/ANNE? SIDNEY, his apparent wife, was born about 1428 of Kent, England, to William Sydney of Kingsham (1390-1449) and Cecily Michell (1390-1447.) She married John Michelgrove about 1450 of Sussex, England. Mary Sidney passed
held by her sister Margaret Scardevyle. But by 1428 William Sydney was said to possess a 1/3 share of the manor. John Michelgrove III father of the current John acted as a third party to the conveyance of this Manor to William Sydney and his heir malesHowever, it should be noted that the Michelgroves had acquired by 1414 a half share of the manor of Kingsham through their grandmother Joan Whegleton, who apparently was a descendant and heir of the Sydneys. The other half was
Stationery off., by Eyre and Spottiswoode, 18991920.v5 p157John junior’s SOLE daughter and heir was Elizabeth Michelgrove who was born 28 March 1460 some 3 months after her father died.
References
Great Britain. Public Record Office, and H. C. Maxwell Lyte. Inquisitions And Assessments Relating to Feudal Aids: With Other Analogous Documents Preserved In the Public Record Office. A.D. 1284-1431. London: Printed for H. M.
Accessed 17 Oct. 2021."Sussex Fines: 21." 25 Henry VI https://www.british-history.ac.uk/feet-of-fines-sussex/vol3/pp255-260#h3-0003. Accessed 20 Oct. 2021.
"#254 - Calendar of the Fine rolls preserved in the Public ... v.19 1452-1461.." Full View https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293024017919&view=1up&seq=254&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#610 - Calendar of the patent rolls preserved in the Public ... 1452-1461 Henry VI v.6. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015031079547&view=1up&seq=610&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove.
17 Oct. 2021."Catalogue description Michelgrove, John Kent, Sussex." Discovery https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C6544445. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#107 - Calendar of the patent rolls. 1461-1467. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293027026339&view=1up&seq=107&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#294 - Calendar of the Fine rolls preserved in the Public ... v.19 1452-1461. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293024017919&view=1up&seq=294&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed
him she had been at her baptism at Ernle on that day ."#28 - Proofs of age of Sussex families, temp. Edw. II to Edw. IV.." Full View https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.hx1fkv&view=1up&seq=28&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 16 Oct. 2021.
Notes
MICHELGROVE . - Proof of the age of ELIZABETH , daughter and heir of John MICHELGROVE , Taken at Steyning , 29th March , 15 Edw . IV . ( 1475 ) .
John Wolff deposes that the said Elizabeth is upwards of fourteen years old , for she was born at Ernle , on March 28th , 39 Hen . VI . ( 1461 ) ; and that Elizabeth , wife of Thomas Taweke , Esq . , one of her godmothers , told
acquiring her or her and was buried at Clapham .John Remys deposes that she is fourteen years old , because on the day abovesaid he met John Ernle , her godfather , going to Ernle church to her baptism .
John Hunt recollects the day , because he rode with Joan Ernle , the other godmother , to Ernle church on that day to the baptism .
John Broker — because the godfather and godmothers , and many other persons , came into his house on that day , directly after the baptism of the said Elizabeth , to eat and to drink , and they told him of it .
Richard Millward — because on that day John Ernle , the godfather , met him and told him of the baptism .
John Ederuhem because the horses of John Ernle , the god father , stood at his house on that day , and after the baptism he told him he was the godfather .
William Atte Lee because he was in Ernle church on that day to hear mass .
Richard French - - because in going to the church to see the baptism , he fell with his right leg against a ladder , in the parish of Ernle , and broke his leg , which he shall never forget .
William Clement – because the day was very windy , and part of his house was unroofed by the wind .
Nicholas Shepherd , John Mansell , and John Grey - because on that day they met a woman named Isabella Tryse , who was the midwife at the birth of the said Elizabeth , and she told them of her birth and baptism .
Robert Comber and John Duke because they met Thomas Elyot , the chaplain of Ernle , who told them he had baptised the said Elizabeth , in Ernle church on that day . 3
1 The writ was sued out by Sir John and the inquisition was held the day after Shelley , whom she had already , though so she was fourteen ; her husband lost no young , married . She ob . 30th June , 1513 , time therefore in
and "Sakam" in Shermanbury also settled on said William and Alice. Manor of Hoope in Rudgwick settled 16 Hen. VIII. on himself for life and afterwards on Richard Shelley and Mary his wife. Lands called "Lymeborn" in Fittleworth,"Wayhurst" in Rudgwick, "3 The writ was dated 8th Nov . 1474 , 3 Inq . 15 Edw . IV . No . 66 ..
https://www.sussexrecordsociety.org/olb/srs014/ Citation
Sussex Record Society Volume 14 page 201.
Notes
JOHN SHELLEY,
esq.
Vol. 46, No. 14.
Steyning, 29 June 19 Hen. VIII. Died 3 Jan. 18 Hen. VIII.
Heir, son William Shelley, the Judge, aged 48 and more.
Lands. Manor of Applesham, advowson of and lands in Combes settled 26 Sept. 18 Hen. VIII. on Alice, wife of William Shelley his son and heir, remainder to William S. and his heirs. Moiety of manor and advowson of Denton in Denton
advowson of the chapel of Wootton, and lands in Patching and Heene, lands called "Wantley" in Sullington. So seized she married John Shelley, and they 10 July 3 Hen. VIII. on the marriage of their son William S. with Alice, one of the sisters and heirsELIZABETH, widow of JOHN SHELLEY, esq., and daughter and heir of John Michelgrove, otherwise called John Fawkenor, esq. Vol. 46, No. 15.
Steyning, 29 June 19 Hen. VIII. Died 30 July 5 Hen. VIII.
Heir, son William Shelley, now one of the Justices of the King's Bench, and aged 48 and more.
Lands called " Michelgrove " and other lands in Clapham, " Bulshams " in Yapton, lands in Barnham, manor of Benstede, lands in Fittleworth, Petworth, Stopham, Pulborough, Cbichester, Funtingdon, Bosham, Wootton near Fakington. and
daughter of Richard Lewknor of Sherfield Sussex and "unknown" daughter of Michelgrove. This information comes from "Sussex Archaeological Collections, History and Antiquities of the County". Looking at the site "Our Royal Titled and Commoner Ancestors",Hi All,
I was very pleased to find these Michelgrove messages and I have been reading them with great interest. I am researching the Lewknor line of Sussex. Bennet Lewknor (whose 2nd husband was Thomas Twisden, direct ancestor) was the
This tree is referred to a lot in Wikitrees.I am a bit confused as you say in the inquisition post mortem of John Michelgrove III (died 1458/9) his widow was Joan?? I thought (according to the above messages) his wife was Mary/Anne d 1478.
According to the website "Our Royal Titled and Commoner Ancestors", John Michelgrove & Mary Sidney have 2 daus, Elizabeth & unknown. No mention of son John d1459. I think maybe the Elizabeth is the dau of John IV. A mistake maybe.
fits in. It would seem from the information given above that maybe the family tree in the Visitation of Sussex (Lewknor tree) is incorrect? Maybe Miss Michelgrove was the daughter of John senior and Joan? I have been playing around with the dates andGoing back to the Joan & Mary/Anne Sidney question, am I reading this incorrectly?
Thanks in advance
GillianHi Again,
Yes I think that I read the previous messages incorrectly! Sorry about that.
For my Lewknor line, the mysterious Miss Michelgrove is said to be the daughter of John Michelgrove and Mary Sidney. However, the sole descendent of John and Mary was Elizabeth their daughter. I do not know how my Miss Michelgrove
know this.Does anyone have any information?
Thanks
HiCould you specify an exact source citation so I can look it up and see what it actually statesHiGillianBennet Lewknor was the daughter of Richard /Lewknor/ of Brambletye
He in turn was the son of Thomas /Lewknor/ of Horsted Keynes, Sussex; Knt by Philippe /Dallingridge/
I have Richard Lewknor of Sherfield and not Brambletyre and Richard was the son of Roger Lewknor and Eleanor Camoys.
Sussex Archaeological Collections.
Gillian
The source is Sussex Archaeological Collections P98.
Regards
HiGillianWhy are you taking shortcuts?
SAC has dozens and dozens of volumes.
Which volume
Sorry, Volume 3.
Regards
GillianIt turns out the SAC reference is not independent. It merely cites The Baronetage article 1741 by wotton, kimber, johnson which you already cited. However in addition they add this placename which is not in the original, without citing how they
is not the Richard Lewknor I am interested in.Hi All,At any rate, it's not a scholarly article exactly, but merely a descent chart without the supporting referencesI also have a ref to SAC Vol 137 (1999) pp 153-9, which may have more, but unfortunately I have not kept details.
Thanks for replies. The SAC vol 137 article is very interesting about Sir John Lewknor son of Sir Thomas. Sir John was killed at the battle of Tewkesbury. A lot of info about his life and mentions his brother Richard of Brambletye. Unfortunately this
There is a will for Sir Roger Lewknor the father written 23rd July and proved 28th Nov 1478. According to various trees online this will mentions that Roger had a son Richard. I have a copy of this will but I am having difficultly "seeing" the sonRichard. He is possibly written as Ricd but difficult to read. I can see sons Thomas, Roger, Roger the younger, Edward, George, Reynold & William. There is also a son in law George Baynbridge.
I have no sources for Bennet Lewknor daughter of Richard and "Miss Michelgrove" except for the tree in SAC vol 3 which does not give any references.
Regards
Gillian
On Tuesday, September 20, 2022 at 9:46:56 AM UTC+10, Mel101 wrote:inquisition post mortem gives the age of his son and heir, John the younger as 22 years and 11 months on 22 April 1459. The inquisitions taken on the deaths of these two, in 1459 and 1461 show almost identical land holdings. In Kent these were the manor
On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 1:37:02 AM UTC+10, gillianm...@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, 2 July 2022 at 14:13:32 UTC+2, adrianc...@btinternet.com wrote:
On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 2:41:59 AM UTC+1, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, June 25, 2022 at 10:48:16 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Friday, 24 June 2022 at 17:34:57 UTC+2, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, June 24, 2022 at 7:13:13 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Wednesday, 22 June 2022 at 22:11:29 UTC+2, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, June 22, 2022 at 10:18:59 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Monday, 20 June 2022 at 14:56:21 UTC+2, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 7:00:20 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Thursday, 16 June 2022 at 13:38:17 UTC+2, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Sunday, 24 October 2021 at 01:34:07 UTC+2, macken...@gmail.com wrote:
Here are my notes on his son
Here are my notes on the son.
JOHN MICHELGROVE IV was born in March 1436, probably in either Sussex or Kent, to John Michelgrove (1413-1459) and Joan. It is said he apparently married Mary/Anne? Sidney about 1450 of Kent, England.
John Michelgrove was a young man of 23 years when he died on 21 November 1459, only ten months after the death of his father John Michelgrove, esquire the elder. The later died on 27 January 1458/9 [27 Jan 1459 n.s.] and his
assignment of dower to Joan wife of the late John Michelgrove III of a third part of Wotton for the term of her natural life. John the younger is referred to as son and heir of John Senior in the assignment, but not specifically of Joan the widow.The main difference between the land holdings of the father and son is that the son held only two parts of Fauconherst and Wotton. At the the time of his fathers inquisition in 1458/9 the Escheator for Sussex made an
passed away about 1478, England, age 50 [further sources needed].It is not known where he was born or died, but it is believed he resided at Michelgrove House, Sussex.
MARY/ANNE? SIDNEY, his apparent wife, was born about 1428 of Kent, England, to William Sydney of Kingsham (1390-1449) and Cecily Michell (1390-1447.) She married John Michelgrove about 1450 of Sussex, England. Mary Sidney
held by her sister Margaret Scardevyle. But by 1428 William Sydney was said to possess a 1/3 share of the manor. John Michelgrove III father of the current John acted as a third party to the conveyance of this Manor to William Sydney and his heir malesHowever, it should be noted that the Michelgroves had acquired by 1414 a half share of the manor of Kingsham through their grandmother Joan Whegleton, who apparently was a descendant and heir of the Sydneys. The other half was
Stationery off., by Eyre and Spottiswoode, 18991920.v5 p157John junior’s SOLE daughter and heir was Elizabeth Michelgrove who was born 28 March 1460 some 3 months after her father died.
References
Great Britain. Public Record Office, and H. C. Maxwell Lyte. Inquisitions And Assessments Relating to Feudal Aids: With Other Analogous Documents Preserved In the Public Record Office. A.D. 1284-1431. London: Printed for H. M.
michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021."Sussex Fines: 21." 25 Henry VI https://www.british-history.ac.uk/feet-of-fines-sussex/vol3/pp255-260#h3-0003. Accessed 20 Oct. 2021.
"#254 - Calendar of the Fine rolls preserved in the Public ... v.19 1452-1461.." Full View https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293024017919&view=1up&seq=254&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#610 - Calendar of the patent rolls preserved in the Public ... 1452-1461 Henry VI v.6. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015031079547&view=1up&seq=610&skin=2021&q1=
Accessed 17 Oct. 2021."Catalogue description Michelgrove, John Kent, Sussex." Discovery https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C6544445. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#107 - Calendar of the patent rolls. 1461-1467. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293027026339&view=1up&seq=107&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#294 - Calendar of the Fine rolls preserved in the Public ... v.19 1452-1461. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293024017919&view=1up&seq=294&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove.
told him she had been at her baptism at Ernle on that day ."#28 - Proofs of age of Sussex families, temp. Edw. II to Edw. IV.." Full View https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.hx1fkv&view=1up&seq=28&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 16 Oct. 2021.
Notes
MICHELGROVE . - Proof of the age of ELIZABETH , daughter and heir of John MICHELGROVE , Taken at Steyning , 29th March , 15 Edw . IV . ( 1475 ) .
John Wolff deposes that the said Elizabeth is upwards of fourteen years old , for she was born at Ernle , on March 28th , 39 Hen . VI . ( 1461 ) ; and that Elizabeth , wife of Thomas Taweke , Esq . , one of her godmothers ,
acquiring her or her and was buried at Clapham .John Remys deposes that she is fourteen years old , because on the day abovesaid he met John Ernle , her godfather , going to Ernle church to her baptism .
John Hunt recollects the day , because he rode with Joan Ernle , the other godmother , to Ernle church on that day to the baptism .
John Broker — because the godfather and godmothers , and many other persons , came into his house on that day , directly after the baptism of the said Elizabeth , to eat and to drink , and they told him of it .
Richard Millward — because on that day John Ernle , the godfather , met him and told him of the baptism .
John Ederuhem because the horses of John Ernle , the god father , stood at his house on that day , and after the baptism he told him he was the godfather .
William Atte Lee because he was in Ernle church on that day to hear mass .
Richard French - - because in going to the church to see the baptism , he fell with his right leg against a ladder , in the parish of Ernle , and broke his leg , which he shall never forget .
William Clement – because the day was very windy , and part of his house was unroofed by the wind .
Nicholas Shepherd , John Mansell , and John Grey - because on that day they met a woman named Isabella Tryse , who was the midwife at the birth of the said Elizabeth , and she told them of her birth and baptism .
Robert Comber and John Duke because they met Thomas Elyot , the chaplain of Ernle , who told them he had baptised the said Elizabeth , in Ernle church on that day . 3
1 The writ was sued out by Sir John and the inquisition was held the day after Shelley , whom she had already , though so she was fourteen ; her husband lost no young , married . She ob . 30th June , 1513 , time therefore in
Denton and "Sakam" in Shermanbury also settled on said William and Alice. Manor of Hoope in Rudgwick settled 16 Hen. VIII. on himself for life and afterwards on Richard Shelley and Mary his wife. Lands called "Lymeborn" in Fittleworth,"Wayhurst" in3 The writ was dated 8th Nov . 1474 , 3 Inq . 15 Edw . IV . No . 66 ..
https://www.sussexrecordsociety.org/olb/srs014/ Citation
Sussex Record Society Volume 14 page 201.
Notes
JOHN SHELLEY,
esq.
Vol. 46, No. 14.
Steyning, 29 June 19 Hen. VIII. Died 3 Jan. 18 Hen. VIII.
Heir, son William Shelley, the Judge, aged 48 and more.
Lands. Manor of Applesham, advowson of and lands in Combes settled 26 Sept. 18 Hen. VIII. on Alice, wife of William Shelley his son and heir, remainder to William S. and his heirs. Moiety of manor and advowson of Denton in
and advowson of the chapel of Wootton, and lands in Patching and Heene, lands called "Wantley" in Sullington. So seized she married John Shelley, and they 10 July 3 Hen. VIII. on the marriage of their son William S. with Alice, one of the sisters andELIZABETH, widow of JOHN SHELLEY, esq., and daughter and heir of John Michelgrove, otherwise called John Fawkenor, esq. Vol. 46, No. 15.
Steyning, 29 June 19 Hen. VIII. Died 30 July 5 Hen. VIII.
Heir, son William Shelley, now one of the Justices of the King's Bench, and aged 48 and more.
Lands called " Michelgrove " and other lands in Clapham, " Bulshams " in Yapton, lands in Barnham, manor of Benstede, lands in Fittleworth, Petworth, Stopham, Pulborough, Cbichester, Funtingdon, Bosham, Wootton near Fakington.
daughter of Richard Lewknor of Sherfield Sussex and "unknown" daughter of Michelgrove. This information comes from "Sussex Archaeological Collections, History and Antiquities of the County". Looking at the site "Our Royal Titled and Commoner Ancestors",Hi All,
I was very pleased to find these Michelgrove messages and I have been reading them with great interest. I am researching the Lewknor line of Sussex. Bennet Lewknor (whose 2nd husband was Thomas Twisden, direct ancestor) was the
maybe. This tree is referred to a lot in Wikitrees.I am a bit confused as you say in the inquisition post mortem of John Michelgrove III (died 1458/9) his widow was Joan?? I thought (according to the above messages) his wife was Mary/Anne d 1478.
According to the website "Our Royal Titled and Commoner Ancestors", John Michelgrove & Mary Sidney have 2 daus, Elizabeth & unknown. No mention of son John d1459. I think maybe the Elizabeth is the dau of John IV. A mistake
fits in. It would seem from the information given above that maybe the family tree in the Visitation of Sussex (Lewknor tree) is incorrect? Maybe Miss Michelgrove was the daughter of John senior and Joan? I have been playing around with the dates andGoing back to the Joan & Mary/Anne Sidney question, am I reading this incorrectly?
Thanks in advance
GillianHi Again,
Yes I think that I read the previous messages incorrectly! Sorry about that.
For my Lewknor line, the mysterious Miss Michelgrove is said to be the daughter of John Michelgrove and Mary Sidney. However, the sole descendent of John and Mary was Elizabeth their daughter. I do not know how my Miss Michelgrove
know this.Does anyone have any information?
Thanks
HiCould you specify an exact source citation so I can look it up and see what it actually statesHiGillianBennet Lewknor was the daughter of Richard /Lewknor/ of Brambletye
He in turn was the son of Thomas /Lewknor/ of Horsted Keynes, Sussex; Knt by Philippe /Dallingridge/
I have Richard Lewknor of Sherfield and not Brambletyre and Richard was the son of Roger Lewknor and Eleanor Camoys.
Sussex Archaeological Collections.
Gillian
The source is Sussex Archaeological Collections P98.
Regards
HiGillianWhy are you taking shortcuts?
SAC has dozens and dozens of volumes.
Which volume
Sorry, Volume 3.
Regards
GillianIt turns out the SAC reference is not independent. It merely cites The Baronetage article 1741 by wotton, kimber, johnson which you already cited. However in addition they add this placename which is not in the original, without citing how they
this is not the Richard Lewknor I am interested in.Hi All,At any rate, it's not a scholarly article exactly, but merely a descent chart without the supporting referencesI also have a ref to SAC Vol 137 (1999) pp 153-9, which may have more, but unfortunately I have not kept details.
Thanks for replies. The SAC vol 137 article is very interesting about Sir John Lewknor son of Sir Thomas. Sir John was killed at the battle of Tewkesbury. A lot of info about his life and mentions his brother Richard of Brambletye. Unfortunately
Richard. He is possibly written as Ricd but difficult to read. I can see sons Thomas, Roger, Roger the younger, Edward, George, Reynold & William. There is also a son in law George Baynbridge.There is a will for Sir Roger Lewknor the father written 23rd July and proved 28th Nov 1478. According to various trees online this will mentions that Roger had a son Richard. I have a copy of this will but I am having difficultly "seeing" the son
wardrobe. Two owners/heirs died mysteriously after his visitation to Sussex, the castle was then left without a male heir, a court case over the age of the young heiress was filed and then she married a Shelley (previously a Faulkner).I have no sources for Bennet Lewknor daughter of Richard and "Miss Michelgrove" except for the tree in SAC vol 3 which does not give any references.
Regardshttps://ancestors.familysearch.org/en/G3JW-51M/sir-john-de-michelgrove-de-fauconer-iii-1398-1459
Gillian
There may be a change of name from Michelgrove/Faulkner/Fauconer to Lewknor and Shelley as a result of the changes of fortune during the war of the roses. Apparently Michelgrove was seized for a time by Henry VIII, the funds used for his personal
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Michelgrove-1
kind regards,https://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1509-1558/member/shelley-william-1479-1549
Melodee
SHELLEY, William (by 1479-1549), of London and Michelgrove, Suss.
On Tuesday, 20 September 2022 at 01:57:21 UTC+2, Mel101 wrote:inquisition post mortem gives the age of his son and heir, John the younger as 22 years and 11 months on 22 April 1459. The inquisitions taken on the deaths of these two, in 1459 and 1461 show almost identical land holdings. In Kent these were the manor
On Tuesday, September 20, 2022 at 9:46:56 AM UTC+10, Mel101 wrote:
On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 1:37:02 AM UTC+10, gillianm...@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, 2 July 2022 at 14:13:32 UTC+2, adrianc...@btinternet.com wrote:
On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 2:41:59 AM UTC+1, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, June 25, 2022 at 10:48:16 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Friday, 24 June 2022 at 17:34:57 UTC+2, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, June 24, 2022 at 7:13:13 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Wednesday, 22 June 2022 at 22:11:29 UTC+2, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, June 22, 2022 at 10:18:59 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Monday, 20 June 2022 at 14:56:21 UTC+2, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 7:00:20 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Thursday, 16 June 2022 at 13:38:17 UTC+2, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Sunday, 24 October 2021 at 01:34:07 UTC+2, macken...@gmail.com wrote:
Here are my notes on his son
Here are my notes on the son.
JOHN MICHELGROVE IV was born in March 1436, probably in either Sussex or Kent, to John Michelgrove (1413-1459) and Joan. It is said he apparently married Mary/Anne? Sidney about 1450 of Kent, England.
John Michelgrove was a young man of 23 years when he died on 21 November 1459, only ten months after the death of his father John Michelgrove, esquire the elder. The later died on 27 January 1458/9 [27 Jan 1459 n.s.] and his
assignment of dower to Joan wife of the late John Michelgrove III of a third part of Wotton for the term of her natural life. John the younger is referred to as son and heir of John Senior in the assignment, but not specifically of Joan the widow.The main difference between the land holdings of the father and son is that the son held only two parts of Fauconherst and Wotton. At the the time of his fathers inquisition in 1458/9 the Escheator for Sussex made an
passed away about 1478, England, age 50 [further sources needed].It is not known where he was born or died, but it is believed he resided at Michelgrove House, Sussex.
MARY/ANNE? SIDNEY, his apparent wife, was born about 1428 of Kent, England, to William Sydney of Kingsham (1390-1449) and Cecily Michell (1390-1447.) She married John Michelgrove about 1450 of Sussex, England. Mary Sidney
was held by her sister Margaret Scardevyle. But by 1428 William Sydney was said to possess a 1/3 share of the manor. John Michelgrove III father of the current John acted as a third party to the conveyance of this Manor to William Sydney and his heirHowever, it should be noted that the Michelgroves had acquired by 1414 a half share of the manor of Kingsham through their grandmother Joan Whegleton, who apparently was a descendant and heir of the Sydneys. The other half
M. Stationery off., by Eyre and Spottiswoode, 18991920.v5 p157John junior’s SOLE daughter and heir was Elizabeth Michelgrove who was born 28 March 1460 some 3 months after her father died.
References
Great Britain. Public Record Office, and H. C. Maxwell Lyte. Inquisitions And Assessments Relating to Feudal Aids: With Other Analogous Documents Preserved In the Public Record Office. A.D. 1284-1431. London: Printed for H.
michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021."Sussex Fines: 21." 25 Henry VI https://www.british-history.ac.uk/feet-of-fines-sussex/vol3/pp255-260#h3-0003. Accessed 20 Oct. 2021.
"#254 - Calendar of the Fine rolls preserved in the Public ... v.19 1452-1461.." Full View https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293024017919&view=1up&seq=254&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#610 - Calendar of the patent rolls preserved in the Public ... 1452-1461 Henry VI v.6. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015031079547&view=1up&seq=610&skin=2021&q1=
Accessed 17 Oct. 2021."Catalogue description Michelgrove, John Kent, Sussex." Discovery https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C6544445. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#107 - Calendar of the patent rolls. 1461-1467. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293027026339&view=1up&seq=107&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#294 - Calendar of the Fine rolls preserved in the Public ... v.19 1452-1461. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293024017919&view=1up&seq=294&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove.
told him she had been at her baptism at Ernle on that day ."#28 - Proofs of age of Sussex families, temp. Edw. II to Edw. IV.." Full View https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.hx1fkv&view=1up&seq=28&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 16 Oct. 2021.
Notes
MICHELGROVE . - Proof of the age of ELIZABETH , daughter and heir of John MICHELGROVE , Taken at Steyning , 29th March , 15 Edw . IV . ( 1475 ) .
John Wolff deposes that the said Elizabeth is upwards of fourteen years old , for she was born at Ernle , on March 28th , 39 Hen . VI . ( 1461 ) ; and that Elizabeth , wife of Thomas Taweke , Esq . , one of her godmothers ,
acquiring her or her and was buried at Clapham .John Remys deposes that she is fourteen years old , because on the day abovesaid he met John Ernle , her godfather , going to Ernle church to her baptism .
John Hunt recollects the day , because he rode with Joan Ernle , the other godmother , to Ernle church on that day to the baptism .
John Broker — because the godfather and godmothers , and many other persons , came into his house on that day , directly after the baptism of the said Elizabeth , to eat and to drink , and they told him of it .
Richard Millward — because on that day John Ernle , the godfather , met him and told him of the baptism .
John Ederuhem because the horses of John Ernle , the god father , stood at his house on that day , and after the baptism he told him he was the godfather .
William Atte Lee because he was in Ernle church on that day to hear mass .
Richard French - - because in going to the church to see the baptism , he fell with his right leg against a ladder , in the parish of Ernle , and broke his leg , which he shall never forget .
William Clement – because the day was very windy , and part of his house was unroofed by the wind .
Nicholas Shepherd , John Mansell , and John Grey - because on that day they met a woman named Isabella Tryse , who was the midwife at the birth of the said Elizabeth , and she told them of her birth and baptism .
Robert Comber and John Duke because they met Thomas Elyot , the chaplain of Ernle , who told them he had baptised the said Elizabeth , in Ernle church on that day . 3
1 The writ was sued out by Sir John and the inquisition was held the day after Shelley , whom she had already , though so she was fourteen ; her husband lost no young , married . She ob . 30th June , 1513 , time therefore in
Denton and "Sakam" in Shermanbury also settled on said William and Alice. Manor of Hoope in Rudgwick settled 16 Hen. VIII. on himself for life and afterwards on Richard Shelley and Mary his wife. Lands called "Lymeborn" in Fittleworth,"Wayhurst" in3 The writ was dated 8th Nov . 1474 , 3 Inq . 15 Edw . IV . No . 66 ..
https://www.sussexrecordsociety.org/olb/srs014/ Citation
Sussex Record Society Volume 14 page 201.
Notes
JOHN SHELLEY,
esq.
Vol. 46, No. 14.
Steyning, 29 June 19 Hen. VIII. Died 3 Jan. 18 Hen. VIII.
Heir, son William Shelley, the Judge, aged 48 and more.
Lands. Manor of Applesham, advowson of and lands in Combes settled 26 Sept. 18 Hen. VIII. on Alice, wife of William Shelley his son and heir, remainder to William S. and his heirs. Moiety of manor and advowson of Denton in
Fakington. and advowson of the chapel of Wootton, and lands in Patching and Heene, lands called "Wantley" in Sullington. So seized she married John Shelley, and they 10 July 3 Hen. VIII. on the marriage of their son William S. with Alice, one of theELIZABETH, widow of JOHN SHELLEY, esq., and daughter and heir of John Michelgrove, otherwise called John Fawkenor, esq. Vol. 46, No. 15.
Steyning, 29 June 19 Hen. VIII. Died 30 July 5 Hen. VIII.
Heir, son William Shelley, now one of the Justices of the King's Bench, and aged 48 and more.
Lands called " Michelgrove " and other lands in Clapham, " Bulshams " in Yapton, lands in Barnham, manor of Benstede, lands in Fittleworth, Petworth, Stopham, Pulborough, Cbichester, Funtingdon, Bosham, Wootton near
the daughter of Richard Lewknor of Sherfield Sussex and "unknown" daughter of Michelgrove. This information comes from "Sussex Archaeological Collections, History and Antiquities of the County". Looking at the site "Our Royal Titled and CommonerHi All,
I was very pleased to find these Michelgrove messages and I have been reading them with great interest. I am researching the Lewknor line of Sussex. Bennet Lewknor (whose 2nd husband was Thomas Twisden, direct ancestor) was
maybe. This tree is referred to a lot in Wikitrees.I am a bit confused as you say in the inquisition post mortem of John Michelgrove III (died 1458/9) his widow was Joan?? I thought (according to the above messages) his wife was Mary/Anne d 1478.
According to the website "Our Royal Titled and Commoner Ancestors", John Michelgrove & Mary Sidney have 2 daus, Elizabeth & unknown. No mention of son John d1459. I think maybe the Elizabeth is the dau of John IV. A mistake
Michelgrove fits in. It would seem from the information given above that maybe the family tree in the Visitation of Sussex (Lewknor tree) is incorrect? Maybe Miss Michelgrove was the daughter of John senior and Joan? I have been playing around with theGoing back to the Joan & Mary/Anne Sidney question, am I reading this incorrectly?
Thanks in advance
GillianHi Again,
Yes I think that I read the previous messages incorrectly! Sorry about that.
For my Lewknor line, the mysterious Miss Michelgrove is said to be the daughter of John Michelgrove and Mary Sidney. However, the sole descendent of John and Mary was Elizabeth their daughter. I do not know how my Miss
they know this.Does anyone have any information?
Thanks
HiCould you specify an exact source citation so I can look it up and see what it actually statesHiGillianBennet Lewknor was the daughter of Richard /Lewknor/ of Brambletye
He in turn was the son of Thomas /Lewknor/ of Horsted Keynes, Sussex; Knt by Philippe /Dallingridge/
I have Richard Lewknor of Sherfield and not Brambletyre and Richard was the son of Roger Lewknor and Eleanor Camoys.
Sussex Archaeological Collections.
Gillian
The source is Sussex Archaeological Collections P98.
Regards
HiGillianWhy are you taking shortcuts?
SAC has dozens and dozens of volumes.
Which volume
Sorry, Volume 3.
Regards
GillianIt turns out the SAC reference is not independent. It merely cites The Baronetage article 1741 by wotton, kimber, johnson which you already cited. However in addition they add this placename which is not in the original, without citing how
this is not the Richard Lewknor I am interested in.Hi All,At any rate, it's not a scholarly article exactly, but merely a descent chart without the supporting referencesI also have a ref to SAC Vol 137 (1999) pp 153-9, which may have more, but unfortunately I have not kept details.
Thanks for replies. The SAC vol 137 article is very interesting about Sir John Lewknor son of Sir Thomas. Sir John was killed at the battle of Tewkesbury. A lot of info about his life and mentions his brother Richard of Brambletye. Unfortunately
son Richard. He is possibly written as Ricd but difficult to read. I can see sons Thomas, Roger, Roger the younger, Edward, George, Reynold & William. There is also a son in law George Baynbridge.There is a will for Sir Roger Lewknor the father written 23rd July and proved 28th Nov 1478. According to various trees online this will mentions that Roger had a son Richard. I have a copy of this will but I am having difficultly "seeing" the
wardrobe. Two owners/heirs died mysteriously after his visitation to Sussex, the castle was then left without a male heir, a court case over the age of the young heiress was filed and then she married a Shelley (previously a Faulkner).I have no sources for Bennet Lewknor daughter of Richard and "Miss Michelgrove" except for the tree in SAC vol 3 which does not give any references.
Regardshttps://ancestors.familysearch.org/en/G3JW-51M/sir-john-de-michelgrove-de-fauconer-iii-1398-1459
Gillian
There may be a change of name from Michelgrove/Faulkner/Fauconer to Lewknor and Shelley as a result of the changes of fortune during the war of the roses. Apparently Michelgrove was seized for a time by Henry VIII, the funds used for his personal
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Michelgrove-1
Hi Melodee,kind regards,https://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1509-1558/member/shelley-william-1479-1549
Melodee
SHELLEY, William (by 1479-1549), of London and Michelgrove, Suss.
Thanks for the links. I need to look into this Michelgrove family again. All I have is the info discussed in this forum. On Wikitree there is further info:
"Richard Lewknor Called Richard, the Younger due to an older uncle. He married (Miss) Michelgrove, daughter of John Michelgrove and Mary Sidney."
The only daughter and child of John Michelgrove and Mary Sydney was Elizabeth b1460 who married John Shelly so the Wikitree information contradicts this. The Source given in Wikitrees is:
https://our-royal-titled-noble-and-commoner-ancestors.com/p1237.htm#i37142
This site states that the mysterious "Miss Michelgrove" was the sister of Elizabeth Michelgrove b1460. The source given is : [S74] Brent Ruesch's Research Notes.
Best regards
Gillian
On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 7:03:38 AM UTC-7, gillianm...@gmail.com wrote:his inquisition post mortem gives the age of his son and heir, John the younger as 22 years and 11 months on 22 April 1459. The inquisitions taken on the deaths of these two, in 1459 and 1461 show almost identical land holdings. In Kent these were the
On Tuesday, 20 September 2022 at 01:57:21 UTC+2, Mel101 wrote:
On Tuesday, September 20, 2022 at 9:46:56 AM UTC+10, Mel101 wrote:
On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 1:37:02 AM UTC+10, gillianm...@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, 2 July 2022 at 14:13:32 UTC+2, adrianc...@btinternet.com wrote:
On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 2:41:59 AM UTC+1, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, June 25, 2022 at 10:48:16 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Friday, 24 June 2022 at 17:34:57 UTC+2, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, June 24, 2022 at 7:13:13 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Wednesday, 22 June 2022 at 22:11:29 UTC+2, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, June 22, 2022 at 10:18:59 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Monday, 20 June 2022 at 14:56:21 UTC+2, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 7:00:20 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Thursday, 16 June 2022 at 13:38:17 UTC+2, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Sunday, 24 October 2021 at 01:34:07 UTC+2, macken...@gmail.com wrote:
Here are my notes on his son
Here are my notes on the son.
JOHN MICHELGROVE IV was born in March 1436, probably in either Sussex or Kent, to John Michelgrove (1413-1459) and Joan. It is said he apparently married Mary/Anne? Sidney about 1450 of Kent, England.
John Michelgrove was a young man of 23 years when he died on 21 November 1459, only ten months after the death of his father John Michelgrove, esquire the elder. The later died on 27 January 1458/9 [27 Jan 1459 n.s.] and
assignment of dower to Joan wife of the late John Michelgrove III of a third part of Wotton for the term of her natural life. John the younger is referred to as son and heir of John Senior in the assignment, but not specifically of Joan the widow.The main difference between the land holdings of the father and son is that the son held only two parts of Fauconherst and Wotton. At the the time of his fathers inquisition in 1458/9 the Escheator for Sussex made an
passed away about 1478, England, age 50 [further sources needed].It is not known where he was born or died, but it is believed he resided at Michelgrove House, Sussex.
MARY/ANNE? SIDNEY, his apparent wife, was born about 1428 of Kent, England, to William Sydney of Kingsham (1390-1449) and Cecily Michell (1390-1447.) She married John Michelgrove about 1450 of Sussex, England. Mary Sidney
was held by her sister Margaret Scardevyle. But by 1428 William Sydney was said to possess a 1/3 share of the manor. John Michelgrove III father of the current John acted as a third party to the conveyance of this Manor to William Sydney and his heirHowever, it should be noted that the Michelgroves had acquired by 1414 a half share of the manor of Kingsham through their grandmother Joan Whegleton, who apparently was a descendant and heir of the Sydneys. The other half
M. Stationery off., by Eyre and Spottiswoode, 18991920.v5 p157John junior’s SOLE daughter and heir was Elizabeth Michelgrove who was born 28 March 1460 some 3 months after her father died.
References
Great Britain. Public Record Office, and H. C. Maxwell Lyte. Inquisitions And Assessments Relating to Feudal Aids: With Other Analogous Documents Preserved In the Public Record Office. A.D. 1284-1431. London: Printed for H.
michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021."Sussex Fines: 21." 25 Henry VI https://www.british-history.ac.uk/feet-of-fines-sussex/vol3/pp255-260#h3-0003. Accessed 20 Oct. 2021.
"#254 - Calendar of the Fine rolls preserved in the Public ... v.19 1452-1461.." Full View https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293024017919&view=1up&seq=254&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#610 - Calendar of the patent rolls preserved in the Public ... 1452-1461 Henry VI v.6. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015031079547&view=1up&seq=610&skin=2021&q1=
Accessed 17 Oct. 2021."Catalogue description Michelgrove, John Kent, Sussex." Discovery https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C6544445. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#107 - Calendar of the patent rolls. 1461-1467. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293027026339&view=1up&seq=107&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#294 - Calendar of the Fine rolls preserved in the Public ... v.19 1452-1461. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293024017919&view=1up&seq=294&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove.
told him she had been at her baptism at Ernle on that day ."#28 - Proofs of age of Sussex families, temp. Edw. II to Edw. IV.." Full View https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.hx1fkv&view=1up&seq=28&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 16 Oct. 2021.
Notes
MICHELGROVE . - Proof of the age of ELIZABETH , daughter and heir of John MICHELGROVE , Taken at Steyning , 29th March , 15 Edw . IV . ( 1475 ) .
John Wolff deposes that the said Elizabeth is upwards of fourteen years old , for she was born at Ernle , on March 28th , 39 Hen . VI . ( 1461 ) ; and that Elizabeth , wife of Thomas Taweke , Esq . , one of her godmothers ,
in acquiring her or her and was buried at Clapham .John Remys deposes that she is fourteen years old , because on the day abovesaid he met John Ernle , her godfather , going to Ernle church to her baptism .
John Hunt recollects the day , because he rode with Joan Ernle , the other godmother , to Ernle church on that day to the baptism .
John Broker — because the godfather and godmothers , and many other persons , came into his house on that day , directly after the baptism of the said Elizabeth , to eat and to drink , and they told him of it .
Richard Millward — because on that day John Ernle , the godfather , met him and told him of the baptism .
John Ederuhem because the horses of John Ernle , the god father , stood at his house on that day , and after the baptism he told him he was the godfather .
William Atte Lee because he was in Ernle church on that day to hear mass .
Richard French - - because in going to the church to see the baptism , he fell with his right leg against a ladder , in the parish of Ernle , and broke his leg , which he shall never forget .
William Clement – because the day was very windy , and part of his house was unroofed by the wind .
Nicholas Shepherd , John Mansell , and John Grey - because on that day they met a woman named Isabella Tryse , who was the midwife at the birth of the said Elizabeth , and she told them of her birth and baptism .
Robert Comber and John Duke because they met Thomas Elyot , the chaplain of Ernle , who told them he had baptised the said Elizabeth , in Ernle church on that day . 3
1 The writ was sued out by Sir John and the inquisition was held the day after Shelley , whom she had already , though so she was fourteen ; her husband lost no young , married . She ob . 30th June , 1513 , time therefore
Denton and "Sakam" in Shermanbury also settled on said William and Alice. Manor of Hoope in Rudgwick settled 16 Hen. VIII. on himself for life and afterwards on Richard Shelley and Mary his wife. Lands called "Lymeborn" in Fittleworth,"Wayhurst" in3 The writ was dated 8th Nov . 1474 , 3 Inq . 15 Edw . IV . No . 66 ..
https://www.sussexrecordsociety.org/olb/srs014/
Citation
Sussex Record Society Volume 14 page 201. Notes
JOHN SHELLEY,
esq.
Vol. 46, No. 14.
Steyning, 29 June 19 Hen. VIII. Died 3 Jan. 18 Hen. VIII.
Heir, son William Shelley, the Judge, aged 48 and more.
Lands. Manor of Applesham, advowson of and lands in Combes settled 26 Sept. 18 Hen. VIII. on Alice, wife of William Shelley his son and heir, remainder to William S. and his heirs. Moiety of manor and advowson of Denton in
Fakington. and advowson of the chapel of Wootton, and lands in Patching and Heene, lands called "Wantley" in Sullington. So seized she married John Shelley, and they 10 July 3 Hen. VIII. on the marriage of their son William S. with Alice, one of theELIZABETH, widow of JOHN SHELLEY, esq., and daughter and heir of John Michelgrove, otherwise called John Fawkenor, esq. Vol. 46, No. 15.
Steyning, 29 June 19 Hen. VIII. Died 30 July 5 Hen. VIII.
Heir, son William Shelley, now one of the Justices of the King's Bench, and aged 48 and more.
Lands called " Michelgrove " and other lands in Clapham, " Bulshams " in Yapton, lands in Barnham, manor of Benstede, lands in Fittleworth, Petworth, Stopham, Pulborough, Cbichester, Funtingdon, Bosham, Wootton near
the daughter of Richard Lewknor of Sherfield Sussex and "unknown" daughter of Michelgrove. This information comes from "Sussex Archaeological Collections, History and Antiquities of the County". Looking at the site "Our Royal Titled and CommonerHi All,
I was very pleased to find these Michelgrove messages and I have been reading them with great interest. I am researching the Lewknor line of Sussex. Bennet Lewknor (whose 2nd husband was Thomas Twisden, direct ancestor) was
maybe. This tree is referred to a lot in Wikitrees.I am a bit confused as you say in the inquisition post mortem of John Michelgrove III (died 1458/9) his widow was Joan?? I thought (according to the above messages) his wife was Mary/Anne d 1478.
According to the website "Our Royal Titled and Commoner Ancestors", John Michelgrove & Mary Sidney have 2 daus, Elizabeth & unknown. No mention of son John d1459. I think maybe the Elizabeth is the dau of John IV. A mistake
Michelgrove fits in. It would seem from the information given above that maybe the family tree in the Visitation of Sussex (Lewknor tree) is incorrect? Maybe Miss Michelgrove was the daughter of John senior and Joan? I have been playing around with theGoing back to the Joan & Mary/Anne Sidney question, am I reading this incorrectly?
Thanks in advance
GillianHi Again,
Yes I think that I read the previous messages incorrectly! Sorry about that.
For my Lewknor line, the mysterious Miss Michelgrove is said to be the daughter of John Michelgrove and Mary Sidney. However, the sole descendent of John and Mary was Elizabeth their daughter. I do not know how my Miss
they know this.Does anyone have any information?
Thanks
HiCould you specify an exact source citation so I can look it up and see what it actually statesHiGillianBennet Lewknor was the daughter of Richard /Lewknor/ of Brambletye
He in turn was the son of Thomas /Lewknor/ of Horsted Keynes, Sussex; Knt by Philippe /Dallingridge/
I have Richard Lewknor of Sherfield and not Brambletyre and Richard was the son of Roger Lewknor and Eleanor Camoys.
Sussex Archaeological Collections.
Gillian
The source is Sussex Archaeological Collections P98.
Regards
HiGillianWhy are you taking shortcuts?
SAC has dozens and dozens of volumes.
Which volume
Sorry, Volume 3.
Regards
GillianIt turns out the SAC reference is not independent. It merely cites The Baronetage article 1741 by wotton, kimber, johnson which you already cited. However in addition they add this placename which is not in the original, without citing how
Unfortunately this is not the Richard Lewknor I am interested in.Hi All,At any rate, it's not a scholarly article exactly, but merely a descent chart without the supporting referencesI also have a ref to SAC Vol 137 (1999) pp 153-9, which may have more, but unfortunately I have not kept details.
Thanks for replies. The SAC vol 137 article is very interesting about Sir John Lewknor son of Sir Thomas. Sir John was killed at the battle of Tewkesbury. A lot of info about his life and mentions his brother Richard of Brambletye.
son Richard. He is possibly written as Ricd but difficult to read. I can see sons Thomas, Roger, Roger the younger, Edward, George, Reynold & William. There is also a son in law George Baynbridge.There is a will for Sir Roger Lewknor the father written 23rd July and proved 28th Nov 1478. According to various trees online this will mentions that Roger had a son Richard. I have a copy of this will but I am having difficultly "seeing" the
wardrobe. Two owners/heirs died mysteriously after his visitation to Sussex, the castle was then left without a male heir, a court case over the age of the young heiress was filed and then she married a Shelley (previously a Faulkner).I have no sources for Bennet Lewknor daughter of Richard and "Miss Michelgrove" except for the tree in SAC vol 3 which does not give any references.
Regardshttps://ancestors.familysearch.org/en/G3JW-51M/sir-john-de-michelgrove-de-fauconer-iii-1398-1459
Gillian
There may be a change of name from Michelgrove/Faulkner/Fauconer to Lewknor and Shelley as a result of the changes of fortune during the war of the roses. Apparently Michelgrove was seized for a time by Henry VIII, the funds used for his personal
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Michelgrove-1
Hi Melodee,kind regards,https://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1509-1558/member/shelley-william-1479-1549
Melodee
SHELLEY, William (by 1479-1549), of London and Michelgrove, Suss.
Thanks for the links. I need to look into this Michelgrove family again. All I have is the info discussed in this forum. On Wikitree there is further info:
"Richard Lewknor Called Richard, the Younger due to an older uncle. He married (Miss) Michelgrove, daughter of John Michelgrove and Mary Sidney."
The only daughter and child of John Michelgrove and Mary Sydney was Elizabeth b1460 who married John Shelly so the Wikitree information contradicts this. The Source given in Wikitrees is:
https://our-royal-titled-noble-and-commoner-ancestors.com/p1237.htm#i37142
This site states that the mysterious "Miss Michelgrove" was the sister of Elizabeth Michelgrove b1460. The source given is : [S74] Brent Ruesch's Research Notes.
Best regards
GillianThis source "Our Royal Titled ...." is merely a cut and paste job from One World Tree.
It's utter and complete rubbish :)
Not trustworthy in any regard at all.
On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 8:09:59 AM UTC+10, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:his inquisition post mortem gives the age of his son and heir, John the younger as 22 years and 11 months on 22 April 1459. The inquisitions taken on the deaths of these two, in 1459 and 1461 show almost identical land holdings. In Kent these were the
On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 7:03:38 AM UTC-7, gillianm...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, 20 September 2022 at 01:57:21 UTC+2, Mel101 wrote:
On Tuesday, September 20, 2022 at 9:46:56 AM UTC+10, Mel101 wrote:
On Wednesday, July 6, 2022 at 1:37:02 AM UTC+10, gillianm...@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, 2 July 2022 at 14:13:32 UTC+2, adrianc...@btinternet.com wrote:
On Friday, July 1, 2022 at 2:41:59 AM UTC+1, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, June 25, 2022 at 10:48:16 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Friday, 24 June 2022 at 17:34:57 UTC+2, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, June 24, 2022 at 7:13:13 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Wednesday, 22 June 2022 at 22:11:29 UTC+2, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, June 22, 2022 at 10:18:59 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Monday, 20 June 2022 at 14:56:21 UTC+2, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 7:00:20 AM UTC-7, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Thursday, 16 June 2022 at 13:38:17 UTC+2, Gillian Mckenna wrote:
On Sunday, 24 October 2021 at 01:34:07 UTC+2, macken...@gmail.com wrote:
Here are my notes on his son
Here are my notes on the son.
JOHN MICHELGROVE IV was born in March 1436, probably in either Sussex or Kent, to John Michelgrove (1413-1459) and Joan. It is said he apparently married Mary/Anne? Sidney about 1450 of Kent, England.
John Michelgrove was a young man of 23 years when he died on 21 November 1459, only ten months after the death of his father John Michelgrove, esquire the elder. The later died on 27 January 1458/9 [27 Jan 1459 n.s.] and
assignment of dower to Joan wife of the late John Michelgrove III of a third part of Wotton for the term of her natural life. John the younger is referred to as son and heir of John Senior in the assignment, but not specifically of Joan the widow.The main difference between the land holdings of the father and son is that the son held only two parts of Fauconherst and Wotton. At the the time of his fathers inquisition in 1458/9 the Escheator for Sussex made an
Sidney passed away about 1478, England, age 50 [further sources needed].It is not known where he was born or died, but it is believed he resided at Michelgrove House, Sussex.
MARY/ANNE? SIDNEY, his apparent wife, was born about 1428 of Kent, England, to William Sydney of Kingsham (1390-1449) and Cecily Michell (1390-1447.) She married John Michelgrove about 1450 of Sussex, England. Mary
half was held by her sister Margaret Scardevyle. But by 1428 William Sydney was said to possess a 1/3 share of the manor. John Michelgrove III father of the current John acted as a third party to the conveyance of this Manor to William Sydney and hisHowever, it should be noted that the Michelgroves had acquired by 1414 a half share of the manor of Kingsham through their grandmother Joan Whegleton, who apparently was a descendant and heir of the Sydneys. The other
H. M. Stationery off., by Eyre and Spottiswoode, 18991920.v5 p157John junior’s SOLE daughter and heir was Elizabeth Michelgrove who was born 28 March 1460 some 3 months after her father died.
References
Great Britain. Public Record Office, and H. C. Maxwell Lyte. Inquisitions And Assessments Relating to Feudal Aids: With Other Analogous Documents Preserved In the Public Record Office. A.D. 1284-1431. London: Printed for
michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021."Sussex Fines: 21." 25 Henry VI https://www.british-history.ac.uk/feet-of-fines-sussex/vol3/pp255-260#h3-0003. Accessed 20 Oct. 2021.
"#254 - Calendar of the Fine rolls preserved in the Public ... v.19 1452-1461.." Full View https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293024017919&view=1up&seq=254&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#610 - Calendar of the patent rolls preserved in the Public ... 1452-1461 Henry VI v.6. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015031079547&view=1up&seq=610&skin=2021&q1=
Accessed 17 Oct. 2021."Catalogue description Michelgrove, John Kent, Sussex." Discovery https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C6544445. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#107 - Calendar of the patent rolls. 1461-1467. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293027026339&view=1up&seq=107&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 17 Oct. 2021.
"#294 - Calendar of the Fine rolls preserved in the Public ... v.19 1452-1461. - Full View." HathiTrust Digital Library https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=msu.31293024017919&view=1up&seq=294&skin=2021&q1=michelgrove.
godmothers , told him she had been at her baptism at Ernle on that day ."#28 - Proofs of age of Sussex families, temp. Edw. II to Edw. IV.." Full View https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=hvd.hx1fkv&view=1up&seq=28&q1=michelgrove. Accessed 16 Oct. 2021.
Notes
MICHELGROVE . - Proof of the age of ELIZABETH , daughter and heir of John MICHELGROVE , Taken at Steyning , 29th March , 15 Edw . IV . ( 1475 ) .
John Wolff deposes that the said Elizabeth is upwards of fourteen years old , for she was born at Ernle , on March 28th , 39 Hen . VI . ( 1461 ) ; and that Elizabeth , wife of Thomas Taweke , Esq . , one of her
therefore in acquiring her or her and was buried at Clapham .John Remys deposes that she is fourteen years old , because on the day abovesaid he met John Ernle , her godfather , going to Ernle church to her baptism .
John Hunt recollects the day , because he rode with Joan Ernle , the other godmother , to Ernle church on that day to the baptism .
John Broker — because the godfather and godmothers , and many other persons , came into his house on that day , directly after the baptism of the said Elizabeth , to eat and to drink , and they told him of it .
Richard Millward — because on that day John Ernle , the godfather , met him and told him of the baptism .
John Ederuhem because the horses of John Ernle , the god father , stood at his house on that day , and after the baptism he told him he was the godfather .
William Atte Lee because he was in Ernle church on that day to hear mass .
Richard French - - because in going to the church to see the baptism , he fell with his right leg against a ladder , in the parish of Ernle , and broke his leg , which he shall never forget .
William Clement – because the day was very windy , and part of his house was unroofed by the wind .
Nicholas Shepherd , John Mansell , and John Grey - because on that day they met a woman named Isabella Tryse , who was the midwife at the birth of the said Elizabeth , and she told them of her birth and baptism .
Robert Comber and John Duke because they met Thomas Elyot , the chaplain of Ernle , who told them he had baptised the said Elizabeth , in Ernle church on that day . 3
1 The writ was sued out by Sir John and the inquisition was held the day after Shelley , whom she had already , though so she was fourteen ; her husband lost no young , married . She ob . 30th June , 1513 , time
in Denton and "Sakam" in Shermanbury also settled on said William and Alice. Manor of Hoope in Rudgwick settled 16 Hen. VIII. on himself for life and afterwards on Richard Shelley and Mary his wife. Lands called "Lymeborn" in Fittleworth,"Wayhurst" in3 The writ was dated 8th Nov . 1474 , 3 Inq . 15 Edw . IV . No . 66 ..
https://www.sussexrecordsociety.org/olb/srs014/
Citation
Sussex Record Society Volume 14 page 201. Notes
JOHN SHELLEY,
esq.
Vol. 46, No. 14.
Steyning, 29 June 19 Hen. VIII. Died 3 Jan. 18 Hen. VIII.
Heir, son William Shelley, the Judge, aged 48 and more.
Lands. Manor of Applesham, advowson of and lands in Combes settled 26 Sept. 18 Hen. VIII. on Alice, wife of William Shelley his son and heir, remainder to William S. and his heirs. Moiety of manor and advowson of Denton
Fakington. and advowson of the chapel of Wootton, and lands in Patching and Heene, lands called "Wantley" in Sullington. So seized she married John Shelley, and they 10 July 3 Hen. VIII. on the marriage of their son William S. with Alice, one of theELIZABETH, widow of JOHN SHELLEY, esq., and daughter and heir of John Michelgrove, otherwise called John Fawkenor, esq. Vol. 46, No. 15.
Steyning, 29 June 19 Hen. VIII. Died 30 July 5 Hen. VIII.
Heir, son William Shelley, now one of the Justices of the King's Bench, and aged 48 and more.
Lands called " Michelgrove " and other lands in Clapham, " Bulshams " in Yapton, lands in Barnham, manor of Benstede, lands in Fittleworth, Petworth, Stopham, Pulborough, Cbichester, Funtingdon, Bosham, Wootton near
was the daughter of Richard Lewknor of Sherfield Sussex and "unknown" daughter of Michelgrove. This information comes from "Sussex Archaeological Collections, History and Antiquities of the County". Looking at the site "Our Royal Titled and CommonerHi All,
I was very pleased to find these Michelgrove messages and I have been reading them with great interest. I am researching the Lewknor line of Sussex. Bennet Lewknor (whose 2nd husband was Thomas Twisden, direct ancestor)
mistake maybe. This tree is referred to a lot in Wikitrees.I am a bit confused as you say in the inquisition post mortem of John Michelgrove III (died 1458/9) his widow was Joan?? I thought (according to the above messages) his wife was Mary/Anne d 1478.
According to the website "Our Royal Titled and Commoner Ancestors", John Michelgrove & Mary Sidney have 2 daus, Elizabeth & unknown. No mention of son John d1459. I think maybe the Elizabeth is the dau of John IV. A
Michelgrove fits in. It would seem from the information given above that maybe the family tree in the Visitation of Sussex (Lewknor tree) is incorrect? Maybe Miss Michelgrove was the daughter of John senior and Joan? I have been playing around with theGoing back to the Joan & Mary/Anne Sidney question, am I reading this incorrectly?
Thanks in advance
GillianHi Again,
Yes I think that I read the previous messages incorrectly! Sorry about that.
For my Lewknor line, the mysterious Miss Michelgrove is said to be the daughter of John Michelgrove and Mary Sidney. However, the sole descendent of John and Mary was Elizabeth their daughter. I do not know how my Miss
how they know this.Does anyone have any information?
Thanks
HiCould you specify an exact source citation so I can look it up and see what it actually statesHiGillianBennet Lewknor was the daughter of Richard /Lewknor/ of Brambletye
He in turn was the son of Thomas /Lewknor/ of Horsted Keynes, Sussex; Knt by Philippe /Dallingridge/
I have Richard Lewknor of Sherfield and not Brambletyre and Richard was the son of Roger Lewknor and Eleanor Camoys.
Sussex Archaeological Collections.
Gillian
The source is Sussex Archaeological Collections P98.
Regards
HiGillianWhy are you taking shortcuts?
SAC has dozens and dozens of volumes.
Which volume
Sorry, Volume 3.
Regards
GillianIt turns out the SAC reference is not independent. It merely cites The Baronetage article 1741 by wotton, kimber, johnson which you already cited. However in addition they add this placename which is not in the original, without citing
Unfortunately this is not the Richard Lewknor I am interested in.Hi All,At any rate, it's not a scholarly article exactly, but merely a descent chart without the supporting referencesI also have a ref to SAC Vol 137 (1999) pp 153-9, which may have more, but unfortunately I have not kept details.
Thanks for replies. The SAC vol 137 article is very interesting about Sir John Lewknor son of Sir Thomas. Sir John was killed at the battle of Tewkesbury. A lot of info about his life and mentions his brother Richard of Brambletye.
the son Richard. He is possibly written as Ricd but difficult to read. I can see sons Thomas, Roger, Roger the younger, Edward, George, Reynold & William. There is also a son in law George Baynbridge.There is a will for Sir Roger Lewknor the father written 23rd July and proved 28th Nov 1478. According to various trees online this will mentions that Roger had a son Richard. I have a copy of this will but I am having difficultly "seeing"
personal wardrobe. Two owners/heirs died mysteriously after his visitation to Sussex, the castle was then left without a male heir, a court case over the age of the young heiress was filed and then she married a Shelley (previously a Faulkner).I have no sources for Bennet Lewknor daughter of Richard and "Miss Michelgrove" except for the tree in SAC vol 3 which does not give any references.
Regardshttps://ancestors.familysearch.org/en/G3JW-51M/sir-john-de-michelgrove-de-fauconer-iii-1398-1459
Gillian
There may be a change of name from Michelgrove/Faulkner/Fauconer to Lewknor and Shelley as a result of the changes of fortune during the war of the roses. Apparently Michelgrove was seized for a time by Henry VIII, the funds used for his
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Michelgrove-1
There was a jacobite Falkner in prison at Windsor castle at one point, and the castle was seized by King Henry VIII before eventually being returned to the young heiress Miss Michelgrove following her marriage to a Shelley (earlier a branch of Faulkner/Hi Melodee,kind regards,https://www.historyofparliamentonline.org/volume/1509-1558/member/shelley-william-1479-1549
Melodee
SHELLEY, William (by 1479-1549), of London and Michelgrove, Suss.
Thanks for the links. I need to look into this Michelgrove family again. All I have is the info discussed in this forum. On Wikitree there is further info:
"Richard Lewknor Called Richard, the Younger due to an older uncle. He married (Miss) Michelgrove, daughter of John Michelgrove and Mary Sidney."
The only daughter and child of John Michelgrove and Mary Sydney was Elizabeth b1460 who married John Shelly so the Wikitree information contradicts this. The Source given in Wikitrees is:
https://our-royal-titled-noble-and-commoner-ancestors.com/p1237.htm#i37142
This site states that the mysterious "Miss Michelgrove" was the sister of Elizabeth Michelgrove b1460. The source given is : [S74] Brent Ruesch's Research Notes.
Best regards
Searching the National Archives there is sometimes some original source material such as wills etc. I suspect that Lewkenor due to the similarity to Fawkenor is a spelling variant of the same surname, possibly due to intermarriage or political turmoil.GillianThis source "Our Royal Titled ...." is merely a cut and paste job from One World Tree.
It's utter and complete rubbish :)
Not trustworthy in any regard at all.
https://www.geni.com/people/John-Michelgrove-Esq/4209051108010049633King's Bench, and aged 48 and more. Lands called " Michelgrove " and other lands in Clapham, " Buls- hams " in Yapton, lands in Barnham, manor of Benstede, lands in Fittleworth, Petworth, Stopham, Pulborough, Cbichester, Funtingdon, Bosham, Wootton near
property and alias
From http://fortunatusfamilia.com.au/getperson.php?personID=I08544&tree=...
ELIZABETH, widow of JOHN SHELLEY, esq., and daughter and heir of John Michelgrove, otherwise called John Fawkenor, esq. Vol. 46, No. 15. Steyning, 29 June 19 Hen. VIII. Died 30 July 5 Hen. VIII. Heir, son William Shelley, now one of the Justices of the
Googlebooks The Baronetage of England: Or The History of the English Baronets, and Such Baronets of Scotland, as are of English Families; with Genealogical Tables, and Engravings of Their Coats of Arms, Volume 1. William Betham. Burrell and Bransby,1801 - Baronetage. "Shelley of Michelgrove, Sussex.". Page 68-69
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