Hello,She, in turn, left a sole daughter and heiress upon her death in 1454, who took the inheritance to the Coode family of Morval.[7]
While trying to research certain Coykins or Cokyns of Devon and Cornwall, i came across the following wikipedia article that gives a summary of heiresses of Gidleigh Castle.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gidleigh_Castle
Some time after the ca. 1393 death of Sir John Daumarle, Alice de Moels' son, his inheritance including the manor of Gidleigh and thus its castle was claimed by Joan (née Cokyn), a granddaughter of his sister and wife of John Dernford, alias Carnadon.
The page does not say that these women held the castle.Moelis and her husband John Daumarle. Secondly by their son – Sir John Daumarle and his wife Isabella. Thirdly – as John and Isabella had no children – the manor passed to Clarice, Sir John’s sister. She was married to Richard Grenville. There is
and reference 7 is to Picken, W. M. M. (1963). "The Descent of Coode of Morval from Prouz, Moeles and Daumarle". Devon and Cornwall Notes and Queries, Vol. XXIX. pp. 142–145
I am trying to confirm the paternal family of Joan in particular.
This succession seems to correspond in part to what is stated in another website, https://www.lustleigh-society.org.uk/the-early-lords-of-the-manor-of-lustleigh-1/
On the death of Sir William le Prous in 1316, the manor passed to his daughter Emma, who was married to Roger de Moelis. From then on several ancestors and relatives of theirs held the manor of Lustleigh: Firstly inherited by their daughter Alice de
Which adds Carndon as last name for Alice, or possibly to her husband, and the name of Clarice's husband, apparently a Grenville.Northhiwyssh, Throulegh, and Seintmarie Tavy; a rent in Colyton; land in Holbeghton and Witcherche. (s)
The wikipedia seems to say that Clarice's daughter Joanna was married to a man whose alias was Carnadon, or Carndon.
A third website , http://www.teachergenealogist007.com/2020/10/henry-cokyn-alice-caryndoun.html
seems to make Joanna a daughter of Henry Cokayn, and gives a citation to an undated document:
Child of Henry and Alice:
i. Joan Cokayn (262595), born ~1382 in Gidleigh, Cornwall, England.
[Undated] John Deneford and Johanne, his wife, daughter of Alice, daughter of Clarice, sister of John Daumarle (d.1392), of Devon, knight, vs. Nicholas Tremayn, feoffee to uses. Manors, advowsons, and lands in Flute Daumarle, Sydenham, Guddelegh,
The citation seems to be to:
(S) Lists and Indexes, Iss16, 1903, P485.
It turns out there is a document in the National Archives that may be the source of this pedigree.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7452364
Short title: Derneford v Tremayn. Plaintiffs: John Derneford and Johanne, his wife,...
Reference: C 1/68/69
Description:
Short title: Derneford v Tremayn.
Plaintiffs: John Derneford and Johanne, his wife, daughter of Alice, daughter of Clarice, sister of John Daumarle, of Devon, knight.
Defendants: Nicholas Tremayn, feoffee to uses.
Subject: Manors, advowsons, and lands in Flute Daumarle, Sydenham, Guddelegh, Northiwyssh, Throulegh, and Seintmarie Tavy; a rent in Colyton; land in Holbeghton and Whitcherche. Devon
Date: 1386-1486
Held by: The National Archives, Kew
Legal status: Public Record(s)
Language: French
Closure status: Open Document, Open Description
I would like to confirm these lines and find out more about Joanna's paternal family.
J. Sardina
While trying to research certain Coykins or Cokyns of Devon and Cornwall, i came across the following wikipedia article that gives a summary of heiresses of Gidleigh Castle.
Reference: C 1/68/69
Description:
Short title: Derneford v Tremayn.
Plaintiffs: John Derneford and Johanne, his wife, daughter of Alice, daughter of Clarice, sister of John Daumarle, of Devon, knight.
Defendants: Nicholas Tremayn, feoffee to uses.
On Saturday, October 23, 2021 at 10:32:03 AM UTC-7, J. Sardina wrote:summarized the one article they have seen,being unaware of others giving different information (that or cherry-picking specific details and ignoring contradictory ones). That said, the Coode article was one of the better ones.
While trying to research certain Coykins or Cokyns of Devon and Cornwall, iThere were probably a dozen articles in D&CN&Q and TDA discussing Gidlegh, Lustleigh and their inheritance, many of which give contradictory pedigrees, so you might want to be a little careful trusting Wikipedia, where often an editor has simply
came across the following wikipedia article that gives a summary of heiresses
of Gidleigh Castle.
Reference: C 1/68/69
Description:
Short title: Derneford v Tremayn.
Plaintiffs: John Derneford and Johanne, his wife, daughter of Alice, daughter of Clarice, sister of John Daumarle, of Devon, knight.
Defendants: Nicholas Tremayn, feoffee to uses.http://aalt.law.uh.edu/AALT4/ChP/C1no68/IMG_0082.htm
taf
The line here seems to be slightly different from the line shown in the visitations, as edited by Vivian.
On Sunday, October 24, 2021 at 11:10:02 AM UTC-7, J. Sardina wrote:generations of a family, and likewise missed the passage of the family property from a childless holder to his first cousin, then to that person's half-brother, instead making the last-named the son of the childless man. Every one of his pedigrees needs
The line here seems to be slightly different from the line shown in the visitations, as edited by Vivian.This has been discussed here before, back in ancient times: Vivian is very much not a reliable source. The pages of D&CN&Q had article after article correcting his mistakes. I know one family that he has assigned the wrong mother to 6 successive
taf
Secondly by their son – Sir John Daumarle and his wife Isabella. Thirdly –
as John and Isabella had no children – the manor passed to Clarice, Sir John’s sister. She was married to Richard Grenville. There is some uncertainty
as to who succeeded them, as by rights it should have been Clarice’s daughter
Alice Carndon and thereafter to their daughter and her husband – Joan and John Durford. Historical evidence suggests that these three women were tricked out of their rightful inheritance by the machinations of the sons of Isabella by her first marriage to John Tremayne.
On Saturday, October 23, 2021 at 10:32:03 AM UTC-7, J. Sardina wrote:
tendency among genealogists and earlier historians to assume inheritance was the only manner in which land could pass, and that if it passed another way it must have been some sort of violation of the 'rules' (or there must be some undetectedSecondly by their son – Sir John Daumarle and his wife Isabella. Thirdly –I am not familiar with this particular case, and this could have been exactly what happened, but this could also simply represent a family's resentment over a perfectly legitimate course of events that nonetheless cut them out. There is a sloppy
as John and Isabella had no children – the manor passed to Clarice, Sir John’s sister. She was married to Richard Grenville. There is some uncertainty
as to who succeeded them, as by rights it should have been Clarice’s daughter
Alice Carndon and thereafter to their daughter and her husband – Joan and
John Durford. Historical evidence suggests that these three women were tricked out of their rightful inheritance by the machinations of the sons of
Isabella by her first marriage to John Tremayne.
taf
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