• =?UTF-8?Q?Re=3a_Cardinal_Henry_Beaufort=2c_alleged_daughter_Jane=2c?= =

    From Peter Stewart@21:1/5 to Will Johnson on Sat Oct 16 09:12:20 2021
    On 16-Oct-21 7:54 AM, Will Johnson wrote:
    The source for the quotation from the Close Roll 1479 is

    https://books.google.com/books?id=bDlKAAAAYAAJ&lpg=PA62&ots=_RBv5-gGBG&dq=%22edward%20stradling%22%20close%20roll%201479&pg=PA62#v=onepage&q&f=false

    Note that this is not a published series of Close Roll entries, just the one relevant to this question
    However note the author has enquoted the entire paragraph, *implying* it's an exact quote from the Roll


    The name Stradling does not occur in the published 1479 close roll, see
    here: https://www.british-history.ac.uk/cal-close-rolls/edw4/1476-85

    Peter Stewart

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  • From Peter Stewart@21:1/5 to Will Johnson on Sun Oct 17 09:13:00 2021
    On 17-Oct-21 2:21 AM, Will Johnson wrote:
    https://books.google.com/books?id=bDlKAAAAYAAJ&lpg=PA62&ots=_RBv5-gGBG&pg=PA62

    Close Roll AD 1479 states "That John Kemys survived both his wife Margaret and her son Maurice Denys This Maurice married Katherine daughter of Sir Edward Stradling Knight of St Donat Castle Glamorgan "


    Note that *this author* (not me) has enqouted the entire sentence. I suppose it is possible that they only mean to enquote a smaller portion, but this is my source for what I said.


    A paper read by Thomas Bush in 1898 to a group of provincial enthusiasts
    is hardly an authoritative source for what is or is not in the close
    roll for 1479, especially when the author clearly adjusts his translated paraphrases given in quotation marks to suit the structure of his own
    English sentences - NB on pp 61-62: 'A Gloucestershire Inquisition, A.D.
    1477, shews:- "That John Kemys died ..."'; 'A Dorset Inquisition, 1477, states:- "That John Kemys and Margaret ...'"; 'Close Roll, A.D. 1479,
    states:- "That John Kemys survived ..."'. Do you suppose the syntax
    represented by Bush can be found in his purported medieval sources, all conveniently starting with "That ..."? Or the peculiar antiquarian
    sidelight in a reference to John Kemys about whose daughter Maurice
    Denys, the subject's step-son, had married?

    There is little enough to go by on this matter, but I'm not sure what confidence can be placed in the circumstance that Maurice Denys was
    wealthy enough to marry a legitimate daughter of Edward Stradling - if
    Denys was Stradling's ward and the latter had acquired the right to
    arrange the former's marriage, what would have prevented the favouring
    of an illegitimate daughter with a better marriage than could otherwise
    be obtained for her?

    Peter Stewart

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