On Monday, September 26, 2005 at 4:20:58 AM UTC-7, Chris Phillips wrote:

Many thanks to all those who have responded with information and suggestions about this charter.
Rosie Bevan wrote:
<<
The Lincolnshire Lay Subsidy of 1334 has been made available by David
Postles at http://www.le.ac.uk/english/pot/lincers.html . The tenantry
for Tydd (in Holland) at that time unfortunately does not include the
four "domini" heading the list (presumably available from
E179/133/14-16), but some of the names of the tenants are common to the
later indenture.

Thanks for posting this list of names. A number of them certainly tie up
with those mentioned in the charter, including "Robert Makyererl" with the placename "Makerelesdore" mentioned in the charter. I was also relieved to see that I had got the strange surname "Eliaduk/Eliaduck" right.
<<

From Feudal Aids v.III, p.369 it appears that in 1284-1285 Tydd was

divided into moieties. One half was held by John de Tydd, and the other
half was held by Robert de Tateshale and Richard de Ros of Edmund
brother of the king. In 1303, as part of the fee of the honour of
Lancaster, one moiety of Tydd is recorded (p.137) as held by Adam de
Tyd and J. de Ros, of the holding which Hugh de Ros and Roger de Tyd
once held. The other moiety was held by Robert de Tateshale "nomine predictorum Hugonis et Rogeri". By 1346 (p.240) William de Dunton and
his tenants held a moiety of Tydd which Adam de Tydd and John de Ros
once held. The other moiety was held by Eva de Tatersale of that which
Robert de Tateshale once held. From this, despite the apparent
confusion in the earliest return on which moiety the Ros family had
tenure, it would appear that the manor of Loveden as subject of the
indenture was part of the moiety held by the Tateshale family which translates to Tydd St Giles (the other moiety being Tydd St Mary).

From what's said in the VCH account of Tydd St Giles (http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?compid=21921), and what John Townsend posted from White's Lincolnshire (1856), I would say these two moieties were both in Tydd St Mary, rather than one being Tydd St Mary and the other Tydd St Giles.
The presence of Tateshales, Kirketons and Bernaks seems suggestive, considering the connections between those families, but I can't quite see
how it works. Perhaps somebody more knowledgeable about those families can explain things.
Adrian Channing wrote:

I guess all those "edyk" are dykes, thus it is perhaps close to the Wash. Also Roger de Kirketon was perhaps from Kirton. There is a place a couple

of

miles NE of Boston now called Leverton, could this be it?

Edyke occurs as a field name in the VCH account of Tydd St Giles. The
details of the charter suggest the land concerned lies to the east of the village of Tydd St Mary, so I think Leverton has to be ruled out (as does
a connection with the Loveden that gave its name to a wapentake, which I think is the one in the extracts posted by John Ravilious).
Another clue is the chapel of St John the Baptist within the manor,
mentioned in the charter. The VCH account refers to a chapel in Eadike, identified by the author as lying near Tritton Bridge, and possibly
belonging to the guild of St John Baptist. It also refers to the manor of Tritton in Tydd St Mary (which must be the manor of "Treton" of the
charter). Unfortunately Tritton is also difficult to track down on the map. James W Cummings wrote:

I was wondering about Dufcotecroft . Isn`t there a place called Dovecotecroft or is it Dovecote?

I think this will be a piece of land where a dovecote - a building housing doves - stood.
Douglas Richardson wrote:

I believe that the Lincolnshire charter dated 1378 under discussion and

now

on Chris Phillips' website is actually a release from a group of trustees

to

Grace [de] Roos (or Ros), the heiress of the property in question. This Grace [de] Roos was the wife of Philip [de] Tilney, Knt., of Boston, Lincolnshire, and, in right of his wife, of Lonedon (in Tydd St. Mary), Lincolnshire, and Ringborough in Holderness, Yorkshire, Knight of the

Shire

for Lincolnshire, deputy butler, Boston, Sheriff of cos. Cambridge and Huntingdon, Chief steward of the duchy of Lancaster for the North Parts, Steward to Bishop Fordham of Ely, Alderman of Corpus Christi guild,

Boston,

Lincolnshire. As I recall, there is a biography of Sir Philip Tilney in Roskell's House of Parliament which you gentlemen might wish to consult.

I've had difficulty proving Grace Roos' parentage, so I'm glad this

charter

has surfaced. The previous owner in title at both Ringborough and Tydd

St.

Mary was John de Roos, who was evidently Grace's grandfather, not her

father

as I thought was the case.

Many thanks for identifying the grantee. If I understand correctly, she was the great great grandmother of Elizabeth Tilney, grandmother of Henry VIII's queens Anne Boleyn and Catherine Howard.
Judging by the VCH account of the manor of Ringbrough in Aldbrough (http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.asp?compid=16125), Grace must have been the daughter of the Richard de Ros who succeeded his grandfather in 1351. Presumably this is the identification hitherto accepted, as online sources call her the daughter of Richard Ross. But the VCH has only this to say about her:
"The manor, which extended into Garton, may have belonged to Richard's son John by the 1370s, and it was possibly as his heir that Grace wife of Sir Philip Tilney and her husband were dealing with it in 1389."
The account of Sir Philip Tilney in the History of Parliament refers to
Grace only as "h. of the Baynard family of Histon, Cambs."
As for the name of the manor, which you have as "Loneden" from other
sources, Guy and I had some correspondence about this, and we did consider the possibility that the name was "Loneden" rather than "Loueden" - "u" and "n" being so difficult to distinguish in medieval manuscript. (In
particular, the modern map shows a "Little London" about 4 miles north of Tydd St Mary, though it can't be in Tydd parish, and its location doesn't seem consistent with the details of the charter.)
The writer does seem to distinguish his "u" and "n" fairly clearly, and the name does seem to be written "Loueden" rather than "Loneden" (Guy kindly
sent me paper copies which were a bit clearly than the digital image). However, I should certainly like to look at the other records that have been read as "Loneden" (and ideally I'd like to identify the site on a modern map). I'd be grateful for any references you can give me to its appearance
as "Loneden".
Chris Phillips

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