need some help with this record, the second part involving Beauvais in particular. Here is the record:prevot de Chepy, et Francois de Pouilly, ecuyer, ses oncles, d'autre part."
:Et Marie de Beauvais, fille de dam^lle Alix de Chappy, veuve de Didier de Beauvais, assistee se venerable et religieuse personne dom Christophe de Beauvais, seigneur de Beauvais, frere de la future epouse, et de Jean de Beauvais, capitaine de Buzancy,
So who is Francois de Pouilly? The phrase "ses oncles" is after his name, so he would have had to been either a brother of Didier de Beauvais or a brother of Alix de Chappy, but where does the de Pouilly come from? I have become frustrated by thisreference.
On Sunday, April 9, 2023 at 1:18:50 PM UTC-7, Darrell E. Larocque wrote:Buzancy, prevot de Chepy, et Francois de Pouilly, ecuyer, ses oncles, d'autre part."
need some help with this record, the second part involving Beauvais in particular. Here is the record:
:Et Marie de Beauvais, fille de dam^lle Alix de Chappy, veuve de Didier de Beauvais, assistee se venerable et religieuse personne dom Christophe de Beauvais, seigneur de Beauvais, frere de la future epouse, et de Jean de Beauvais, capitaine de
reference.So who is Francois de Pouilly? The phrase "ses oncles" is after his name, so he would have had to been either a brother of Didier de Beauvais or a brother of Alix de Chappy, but where does the de Pouilly come from? I have become frustrated by this
Two additional possibilities to consider: half-uncle (Francois was half-brother of Alix or Didier) or great-uncle (Francois was maternal uncle of Alix or Didier).
taf
need some help with this record, the second part involving Beauvais in particular. Here is the record:Christophe de Vaulx, ecuyer, sieur en partie du meme lieu, Etienne de Saint-Quentin, ecuyer, seigneur de Chevrieres, Jean de Saint-Quentin, ecuyer, seigneur de Resson en partie, Nicolas de Saint-Quentin, ecuyer, seigneur des Petites Ayvelles en partie,
9 octobre 1536. - Louis Martinet et Person Martinet, notaires.
:"Contrat de mariage entre M^re Adrien de Chartogne, fils de noble homme Laurent de Chartogne, ecuyer, sieur de la Folie les Bretoncourt et d'Ecordal en partie, assiste de Jean de Vaulx, ecuyer, sieur d'Ecordal en partie, gruyer de Rethelois,
:Et Marie de Beauvais, fille de dam^lle Alix de Chappy, veuve de Didier de Beauvais, assistee se venerable et religieuse personne dom Christophe de Beauvais, seigneur de Beauvais, frere de la future epouse, et de Jean de Beauvais, capitaine de Buzancy,prevot de Chepy, et Francois de Pouilly, ecuyer, ses oncles, d'autre part."
I am trying to solve the relationship in the second part, and I see this- Didier de Beauvais, Seigneur d'Autruche, m. Alix de Chappy.reference.
*Christophe de Beauvais, son.
*Marie de Beauvais, daughter.
*Jean de Beauvais, son.
So who is Francois de Pouilly? The phrase "ses oncles" is after his name, so he would have had to been either a brother of Didier de Beauvais or a brother of Alix de Chappy, but where does the de Pouilly come from? I have become frustrated by this
As an aside, the de Pouilly must be from Pouilly-sur-Meuse near Autruche.
On 10-Apr-23 6:18 AM, Darrell E. Larocque wrote:Christophe de Vaulx, ecuyer, sieur en partie du meme lieu, Etienne de Saint-Quentin, ecuyer, seigneur de Chevrieres, Jean de Saint-Quentin, ecuyer, seigneur de Resson en partie, Nicolas de Saint-Quentin, ecuyer, seigneur des Petites Ayvelles en partie,
need some help with this record, the second part involving Beauvais in particular. Here is the record:
9 octobre 1536. - Louis Martinet et Person Martinet, notaires.
:"Contrat de mariage entre M^re Adrien de Chartogne, fils de noble homme Laurent de Chartogne, ecuyer, sieur de la Folie les Bretoncourt et d'Ecordal en partie, assiste de Jean de Vaulx, ecuyer, sieur d'Ecordal en partie, gruyer de Rethelois,
Buzancy, prevot de Chepy, et Francois de Pouilly, ecuyer, ses oncles, d'autre part.":Et Marie de Beauvais, fille de dam^lle Alix de Chappy, veuve de Didier de Beauvais, assistee se venerable et religieuse personne dom Christophe de Beauvais, seigneur de Beauvais, frere de la future epouse, et de Jean de Beauvais, capitaine de
reference.I am trying to solve the relationship in the second part, and I see this- Didier de Beauvais, Seigneur d'Autruche, m. Alix de Chappy.
*Christophe de Beauvais, son.
*Marie de Beauvais, daughter.
*Jean de Beauvais, son.
So who is Francois de Pouilly? The phrase "ses oncles" is after his name, so he would have had to been either a brother of Didier de Beauvais or a brother of Alix de Chappy, but where does the de Pouilly come from? I have become frustrated by this
As an aside, the de Pouilly must be from Pouilly-sur-Meuse near Autruche.François de Pouilly married Marie de Chappy, probably a sister of Alix, according to this article on the Beauvais family: https://books.google.com.au/books?id=ZTdNAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA2
Peter Stewart
--
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On Sunday, April 9, 2023 at 10:47:20 PM UTC-4, Peter Stewart wrote:Christophe de Vaulx, ecuyer, sieur en partie du meme lieu, Etienne de Saint-Quentin, ecuyer, seigneur de Chevrieres, Jean de Saint-Quentin, ecuyer, seigneur de Resson en partie, Nicolas de Saint-Quentin, ecuyer, seigneur des Petites Ayvelles en partie,
On 10-Apr-23 6:18 AM, Darrell E. Larocque wrote:
need some help with this record, the second part involving Beauvais in particular. Here is the record:
9 octobre 1536. - Louis Martinet et Person Martinet, notaires.
:"Contrat de mariage entre M^re Adrien de Chartogne, fils de noble homme Laurent de Chartogne, ecuyer, sieur de la Folie les Bretoncourt et d'Ecordal en partie, assiste de Jean de Vaulx, ecuyer, sieur d'Ecordal en partie, gruyer de Rethelois,
Buzancy, prevot de Chepy, et Francois de Pouilly, ecuyer, ses oncles, d'autre part.":Et Marie de Beauvais, fille de dam^lle Alix de Chappy, veuve de Didier de Beauvais, assistee se venerable et religieuse personne dom Christophe de Beauvais, seigneur de Beauvais, frere de la future epouse, et de Jean de Beauvais, capitaine de
reference.I am trying to solve the relationship in the second part, and I see this-
Didier de Beauvais, Seigneur d'Autruche, m. Alix de Chappy.
*Christophe de Beauvais, son.
*Marie de Beauvais, daughter.
*Jean de Beauvais, son.
So who is Francois de Pouilly? The phrase "ses oncles" is after his name, so he would have had to been either a brother of Didier de Beauvais or a brother of Alix de Chappy, but where does the de Pouilly come from? I have become frustrated by this
As an aside, the de Pouilly must be from Pouilly-sur-Meuse near Autruche.François de Pouilly married Marie de Chappy, probably a sister of Alix, according to this article on the Beauvais family: https://books.google.com.au/books?id=ZTdNAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA2
Peter Stewart
--That's exactly what I needed... thank you, Peter!
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On Monday, April 10, 2023 at 9:20:12 PM UTC+9, Darrell E. Larocque wrote:Christophe de Vaulx, ecuyer, sieur en partie du meme lieu, Etienne de Saint-Quentin, ecuyer, seigneur de Chevrieres, Jean de Saint-Quentin, ecuyer, seigneur de Resson en partie, Nicolas de Saint-Quentin, ecuyer, seigneur des Petites Ayvelles en partie,
On Sunday, April 9, 2023 at 10:47:20 PM UTC-4, Peter Stewart wrote:
On 10-Apr-23 6:18 AM, Darrell E. Larocque wrote:
need some help with this record, the second part involving Beauvais in particular. Here is the record:
9 octobre 1536. - Louis Martinet et Person Martinet, notaires.
:"Contrat de mariage entre M^re Adrien de Chartogne, fils de noble homme Laurent de Chartogne, ecuyer, sieur de la Folie les Bretoncourt et d'Ecordal en partie, assiste de Jean de Vaulx, ecuyer, sieur d'Ecordal en partie, gruyer de Rethelois,
Buzancy, prevot de Chepy, et Francois de Pouilly, ecuyer, ses oncles, d'autre part.":Et Marie de Beauvais, fille de dam^lle Alix de Chappy, veuve de Didier de Beauvais, assistee se venerable et religieuse personne dom Christophe de Beauvais, seigneur de Beauvais, frere de la future epouse, et de Jean de Beauvais, capitaine de
this reference.I am trying to solve the relationship in the second part, and I see this-
Didier de Beauvais, Seigneur d'Autruche, m. Alix de Chappy. *Christophe de Beauvais, son.
*Marie de Beauvais, daughter.
*Jean de Beauvais, son.
So who is Francois de Pouilly? The phrase "ses oncles" is after his name, so he would have had to been either a brother of Didier de Beauvais or a brother of Alix de Chappy, but where does the de Pouilly come from? I have become frustrated by
As an aside, the de Pouilly must be from Pouilly-sur-Meuse near Autruche.François de Pouilly married Marie de Chappy, probably a sister of Alix, according to this article on the Beauvais family: https://books.google.com.au/books?id=ZTdNAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA2
Peter Stewart
Rethelois, Christophe de Vaulx, esquire, lord in the same location, Etienne de Saint-Quentin, esquire, lord of Chevrieres, Jean de Saint-Quentin, esquire, lord of Resson, Nicolas de Saint-Quentin, esquire, lord of the Petites Ayvelles, all beingJust a small addition, a quick, somewhat rough, translation of the French into English. Whether it adds anything or not, I don't know. But, here it is:--That's exactly what I needed... thank you, Peter!
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"Contract of marriage between Mr. Adrien de Chartogne, son of the noble gentleman Laurent de Chartogne, esquire, lord of la Folie les Bretoncourt and of Ecordal in part, as assisted by Jean de Vaulx, esquire, lord of Ecordal in part, Gruyer de
:And Marie de Beauvais, daughter of mistress Alix de Chappy, widow of Didier de Beauvais, as assisted by the venerable et religieus person the lord Christophe de Beauvais, lord of Beauvais, brother of the woman to be married, and by Jean de Beauvais,capitain of Buzancy, prevost of Chepy, et Francois de Pouilly, squire, her uncles, on the other hand."
Hikaru
Would a girl of minor age (16 or younger) be omitted as a witness in a French marriage record like this?
On Friday, April 28, 2023 at 5:13:14 PM UTC-7, Darrell E. Larocque wrote:that is not generalizable; 3) the ones I have access to all relate to burgher families, not gentry; and 4) there may be sampling bias issues - the pattern among this selection of documents may not even reflect the overall pattern from the community
Would a girl of minor age (16 or younger) be omitted as a witness in a French marriage record like this?I am not very familiar with 16th century practice, but have seen a number of abstracts of marriage contracts from Hagenau from the late 17th and 18th century.
First some caveats - 1) they are abstracts I have access to, and I can't be certain how well they reflect what is present in the original records; 2) they are only a small subset, relating to a single town, and hence may reflect very local practice
That all said, in the earliest ones only adult men appear as witnesses. This changes about 1720 when the bride herself begins to sign as a witness, and about 1740 one begins to see other female relatives. Extrapolating from this pattern, I would notexpect a minor female to appear as witness in the 16th century.
taf
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