On Sunday, June 14, 2020 at 6:00:44 PM UTC-4, jlavi...@gmail.com wrote:

On Sunday, June 14, 2020 at 9:37:13 AM UTC-4, Denis Beauregard wrote:

On Sat, 13 Jun 2020 17:34:15 -0700 (PDT), Paulo Ricardo Canedo <paulorica...@gmail.com> wrote in soc.genealogy.medieval:

domingo, 26 de Abril de 2020 às 17:26:25 UTC+1, Denis Beauregard escreveu:

On Sun, 26 Apr 2020 05:02:46 -0700 (PDT), wrote
in soc.genealogy.medieval:

The Haraucourt is based on a theory by Denis Amiot but it is
from printed books and not from records. Since that Antoinette
is too young, we should completely ignore this theory. Denis
Amiot had a very thick stack of papers. SGCF had that copy but
no one had the idea to copy the whole stack and Mr Amiot, who
was sick at that time, got it back. I presume he is dead for
years now. No idea where are his papers.

What were the connections between the Joyeuses, on one hand, and the Longuevals, d'Estrees and Bourbons, on the other hand?

No connection with Estrees (misreading for Epieds) and Bourbons (hypothesis abandonned for many years).

As for the Longueval-Joyeuse connection, you may begin with

http://www.francogene.com/genealogie-quebec-genealogy/196/196445.php

Ignore the DNA signature.

There is a long path before reaching the nobility and it is not
with the Bourbon.

Denis

--

Tanguay and others did not misread Epieds with Estrees, and specifically said it was in the "eveque de Soissons" just like Coeuvres is. They themselves read and wrote more scribbly cursive writing on these old records than anyone. Coeuvres was called

Estrees and is in the Eveque de Soissons, there is a Charles de Longueval in this family from the same time, place, and family names with Antoinette de Longueval, those are facts. Charles de Longueval, seigneur de Prouville born vers 1555 in same area as
Epieds, no family given. Those are facts. He was a grandson of the daughter of the Bourbon Batarde de Vendome, another fact. You all did not see that Coeuvres was called Estrees up until the Revolution, these are all facts. I think Tanguay, Godbout,
Amiot, etc., all had access to other records or family information linking the Couvents to the Duchy of Estrees (Coeuvres) that is lost or missing. I give the original genealogists more credit than this, and while I applaud the work you and others have
done in recent years for Canadian family histories, think you all need to be more cautious before dismissing certain things.


I'm sorry, but you are wrong here. You are the only one saying this about Estrées, and Gagne and Kokanosky have provided their research on the de Longueval family and Couvent family:

1) They provided Anne Couvent's marriage record revealed on 25 Jul 1663:

"We Jacques Maheut[,] son of Nicollas and Loyse Clichon of the parish of bubertré in the land of the Perche[,] of the first part[,] and Anne Couvent[,] daughter of Guillaume and Antoinette de Longueval of the parish of Espié[,] diocese of Soissons20[,]
of the second [part,] have agreed"

Later in Gagne and Kokanosky:

"Espié, today called Épieds, Aisne, is located to the northeast of Château-Thierry and just to the south of Brécy and Coincy."

There is also the baptismal record of Charlotte Couvent in Brécy 11 Oct 1608:

"On Sunday[,] the eleventh day of the aforesaid month and year[,] above[,] a girl was baptized[,] named Charlotte[,] her father Guilliaume Couvent the godfather [sic] the mother Anthoinette de Longuevalle the godfather Julian Delaage the godmother Louise
de Joieuse wife of Charles Longueval"

Brécy is 3.6 miles from Épieds. I would invite you to fully read Gagne and Kokanosky's research before making factual claims that are in error. Here is the full English translation:

http://habitant.org/joyeuse/Amiot%20Couvent%20Complete%20Article%20Translated%20and%20Bookmarked..pdf


2) Coeuvres was NOT called Estrées as you claim... you can clearly see from a map in 1737 of Soissons and environs:

https://maps-prints.com/23075/antique-map-of-the-region-of-soissons-by-de-lat-1737.jpg

Coeuvres is just south of the "O" in SOISSONOIS.

Darrell E. Larocque

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