A new source which identifies Henri in 1205 and later Colart d'Estouteville in 1377:and three a cross with twenty crosses recrossed, representing Mauquenchy, stamped with a face helm crowned on an old man's head supported by two crouching lions.
Henry d'Estouteville. 1205. The seal is a rampant lion bypassed on a burly: f SIG HENRICI DE ETTOTE-
VILLA
In 1377, a receipt of pledges was given by Colart naming him "chevalier, seigneur de Torcy, capitaine d'Arques" with a seal that had a leaning shield, quartered, at one and four, burelé with a debruising lion representing d'Estouteville, and at two
Victor Leblond. ''Notes pour le nobiliaire du Beauvaisis, d'après un manuscrit inédit du XVIIe siècle et autres documents originaux. Partie 3'', (Paris: E. Chmpion, 1913), p. 904.
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k5410619d/f95.item
We know it is the correct Colart because he married Blanche de Mauquenchy in 1372 according to Anselme.
On Thursday, 23 March 2023 at 03:15:26 UTC, Darrell E. Larocque wrote:and three a cross with twenty crosses recrossed, representing Mauquenchy, stamped with a face helm crowned on an old man's head supported by two crouching lions.
A new source which identifies Henri in 1205 and later Colart d'Estouteville in 1377:
Henry d'Estouteville. 1205. The seal is a rampant lion bypassed on a burly: f SIG HENRICI DE ETTOTE-
VILLA
In 1377, a receipt of pledges was given by Colart naming him "chevalier, seigneur de Torcy, capitaine d'Arques" with a seal that had a leaning shield, quartered, at one and four, burelé with a debruising lion representing d'Estouteville, and at two
collection of snippets from earlier works. And your translation software unfortunately cannot cope with heraldic blazon.Victor Leblond. ''Notes pour le nobiliaire du Beauvaisis, d'après un manuscrit inédit du XVIIe siècle et autres documents originaux. Partie 3'', (Paris: E. Chmpion, 1913), p. 904.
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k5410619d/f95.item
We know it is the correct Colart because he married Blanche de Mauquenchy in 1372 according to Anselme.The book by Victor Leblond, /Notes pour le nobiliaire du Beauvaisis : d'après un manuscrit inédit du XVIIe siècle et autres documents originaux/, was not new even when it was first published in three volumes between 1910 and 1913, since it is a
The first of the two items that you quote comes from the magisterial work by Louis-Claude Douët d’Arcq, /Collection de sceaux: inventaires et documents publiés par ordre de l’Empereur sous la direction de M. le comte de Laborde/, 1863-68, being athree-volume catalogue of seals in the national collection in Paris. Entry 2114 is for an armorial seal (i.e. one where the principal device is a shield of arms) for Henri d'Estouteville, with the arms 'Barruly, a lion rampant to sinister' (on a
The second item is from Joseph Roman, /Inventaire des sceaux de la collection des pièces originales du cabinet des titres à la Bibliothèque nationale/, 1909, number 4303 for Colart d’Estouteville. Another armorial seal, it has a shield, tilted tothe left, with quartered arms: 1 and 4, barruly, a lion*, 2 and 3, a cross between twenty crossed crosslets; crest: on a front-facing helm a coronet and an old man’s head; supporters: two lions sejant (sitting). The seal was apparently used in 1377.
It should also be noted that Leblond does not claim any connection, apart from the similarity of surname, between the two entries. Altogether, this means that there could well be the connections you want, but the entries in Leblond are not enough.There needs to be further evidence before you can be sure.
* 'a lion', in such catalogues, usually means a lion rampant facing to the viewer's left.
Peter Howarth
On Thursday, 23 March 2023 at 03:15:26 UTC, Darrell E. Larocque wrote:and three a cross with twenty crosses recrossed, representing Mauquenchy, stamped with a face helm crowned on an old man's head supported by two crouching lions.
A new source which identifies Henri in 1205 and later Colart d'Estouteville in 1377:
Henry d'Estouteville. 1205. The seal is a rampant lion bypassed on a burly: f SIG HENRICI DE ETTOTE-
VILLA
In 1377, a receipt of pledges was given by Colart naming him "chevalier, seigneur de Torcy, capitaine d'Arques" with a seal that had a leaning shield, quartered, at one and four, burelé with a debruising lion representing d'Estouteville, and at two
collection of snippets from earlier works. And your translation software unfortunately cannot cope with heraldic blazon.Victor Leblond. ''Notes pour le nobiliaire du Beauvaisis, d'après un manuscrit inédit du XVIIe siècle et autres documents originaux. Partie 3'', (Paris: E. Chmpion, 1913), p. 904.
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k5410619d/f95.item
We know it is the correct Colart because he married Blanche de Mauquenchy in 1372 according to Anselme.The book by Victor Leblond, /Notes pour le nobiliaire du Beauvaisis : d'après un manuscrit inédit du XVIIe siècle et autres documents originaux/, was not new even when it was first published in three volumes between 1910 and 1913, since it is a
The first of the two items that you quote comes from the magisterial work by Louis-Claude Douët d’Arcq, /Collection de sceaux: inventaires et documents publiés par ordre de l’Empereur sous la direction de M. le comte de Laborde/, 1863-68, being athree-volume catalogue of seals in the national collection in Paris. Entry 2114 is for an armorial seal (i.e. one where the principal device is a shield of arms) for Henri d'Estouteville, with the arms 'Barruly, a lion rampant to sinister' (on a
The second item is from Joseph Roman, /Inventaire des sceaux de la collection des pièces originales du cabinet des titres à la Bibliothèque nationale/, 1909, number 4303 for Colart d’Estouteville. Another armorial seal, it has a shield, tilted tothe left, with quartered arms: 1 and 4, barruly, a lion*, 2 and 3, a cross between twenty crossed crosslets; crest: on a front-facing helm a coronet and an old man’s head; supporters: two lions sejant (sitting). The seal was apparently used in 1377.
It should also be noted that Leblond does not claim any connection, apart from the similarity of surname, between the two entries. Altogether, this means that there could well be the connections you want, but the entries in Leblond are not enough.There needs to be further evidence before you can be sure.
* 'a lion', in such catalogues, usually means a lion rampant facing to the viewer's left.
Peter Howarth
On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 5:56:47 AM UTC-4, Peter Howarth wrote:two and three a cross with twenty crosses recrossed, representing Mauquenchy, stamped with a face helm crowned on an old man's head supported by two crouching lions.
On Thursday, 23 March 2023 at 03:15:26 UTC, Darrell E. Larocque wrote:
A new source which identifies Henri in 1205 and later Colart d'Estouteville in 1377:
Henry d'Estouteville. 1205. The seal is a rampant lion bypassed on a burly: f SIG HENRICI DE ETTOTE-
VILLA
In 1377, a receipt of pledges was given by Colart naming him "chevalier, seigneur de Torcy, capitaine d'Arques" with a seal that had a leaning shield, quartered, at one and four, burelé with a debruising lion representing d'Estouteville, and at
collection of snippets from earlier works. And your translation software unfortunately cannot cope with heraldic blazon.Victor Leblond. ''Notes pour le nobiliaire du Beauvaisis, d'après un manuscrit inédit du XVIIe siècle et autres documents originaux. Partie 3'', (Paris: E. Chmpion, 1913), p. 904.
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k5410619d/f95.item
We know it is the correct Colart because he married Blanche de Mauquenchy in 1372 according to Anselme.The book by Victor Leblond, /Notes pour le nobiliaire du Beauvaisis : d'après un manuscrit inédit du XVIIe siècle et autres documents originaux/, was not new even when it was first published in three volumes between 1910 and 1913, since it is a
a three-volume catalogue of seals in the national collection in Paris. Entry 2114 is for an armorial seal (i.e. one where the principal device is a shield of arms) for Henri d'Estouteville, with the arms 'Barruly, a lion rampant to sinister' (on aThe first of the two items that you quote comes from the magisterial work by Louis-Claude Douët d’Arcq, /Collection de sceaux: inventaires et documents publiés par ordre de l’Empereur sous la direction de M. le comte de Laborde/, 1863-68, being
to the left, with quartered arms: 1 and 4, barruly, a lion*, 2 and 3, a cross between twenty crossed crosslets; crest: on a front-facing helm a coronet and an old man’s head; supporters: two lions sejant (sitting). The seal was apparently used in 1377.The second item is from Joseph Roman, /Inventaire des sceaux de la collection des pièces originales du cabinet des titres à la Bibliothèque nationale/, 1909, number 4303 for Colart d’Estouteville. Another armorial seal, it has a shield, tilted
There needs to be further evidence before you can be sure.It should also be noted that Leblond does not claim any connection, apart from the similarity of surname, between the two entries. Altogether, this means that there could well be the connections you want, but the entries in Leblond are not enough.
original French is not perfect by any means, but it gives me an idea at least for a beginning. I was trying to gauge whether or not there is some connection which could connect dots between de Torcy males, but if the armorials are common then it seems* 'a lion', in such catalogues, usually means a lion rampant facing to the viewer's left.
Peter HowarthPeter,
I didn't get a chance to review where Leblond himself got them from, only gathering the information initially to try and make sense of it and you have done that in a very comprehensive way and I very much appreciate that. The translation of the
Darrell
On Thursday, 23 March 2023 at 13:08:47 UTC, Darrell E. Larocque wrote:two and three a cross with twenty crosses recrossed, representing Mauquenchy, stamped with a face helm crowned on an old man's head supported by two crouching lions.
On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 5:56:47 AM UTC-4, Peter Howarth wrote:
On Thursday, 23 March 2023 at 03:15:26 UTC, Darrell E. Larocque wrote:
A new source which identifies Henri in 1205 and later Colart d'Estouteville in 1377:
Henry d'Estouteville. 1205. The seal is a rampant lion bypassed on a burly: f SIG HENRICI DE ETTOTE-
VILLA
In 1377, a receipt of pledges was given by Colart naming him "chevalier, seigneur de Torcy, capitaine d'Arques" with a seal that had a leaning shield, quartered, at one and four, burelé with a debruising lion representing d'Estouteville, and at
collection of snippets from earlier works. And your translation software unfortunately cannot cope with heraldic blazon.Victor Leblond. ''Notes pour le nobiliaire du Beauvaisis, d'après un manuscrit inédit du XVIIe siècle et autres documents originaux. Partie 3'', (Paris: E. Chmpion, 1913), p. 904.
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k5410619d/f95.item
We know it is the correct Colart because he married Blanche de Mauquenchy in 1372 according to Anselme.The book by Victor Leblond, /Notes pour le nobiliaire du Beauvaisis : d'après un manuscrit inédit du XVIIe siècle et autres documents originaux/, was not new even when it was first published in three volumes between 1910 and 1913, since it is a
being a three-volume catalogue of seals in the national collection in Paris. Entry 2114 is for an armorial seal (i.e. one where the principal device is a shield of arms) for Henri d'Estouteville, with the arms 'Barruly, a lion rampant to sinister' (on aThe first of the two items that you quote comes from the magisterial work by Louis-Claude Douët d’Arcq, /Collection de sceaux: inventaires et documents publiés par ordre de l’Empereur sous la direction de M. le comte de Laborde/, 1863-68,
to the left, with quartered arms: 1 and 4, barruly, a lion*, 2 and 3, a cross between twenty crossed crosslets; crest: on a front-facing helm a coronet and an old man’s head; supporters: two lions sejant (sitting). The seal was apparently used in 1377.The second item is from Joseph Roman, /Inventaire des sceaux de la collection des pièces originales du cabinet des titres à la Bibliothèque nationale/, 1909, number 4303 for Colart d’Estouteville. Another armorial seal, it has a shield, tilted
There needs to be further evidence before you can be sure.It should also be noted that Leblond does not claim any connection, apart from the similarity of surname, between the two entries. Altogether, this means that there could well be the connections you want, but the entries in Leblond are not enough.
original French is not perfect by any means, but it gives me an idea at least for a beginning. I was trying to gauge whether or not there is some connection which could connect dots between de Torcy males, but if the armorials are common then it seems* 'a lion', in such catalogues, usually means a lion rampant facing to the viewer's left.
Peter HowarthPeter,
I didn't get a chance to review where Leblond himself got them from, only gathering the information initially to try and make sense of it and you have done that in a very comprehensive way and I very much appreciate that. The translation of the
Robert, Jean and Estout, were apparently involved in the defence of Beauvais during the siege of 1472. This would probably place Guillaume at some time around the middle of the fifteenth century. The information was taken from Pierre César Renet, /DarrellAt the bottom of the next page of Leblond (p. 905), there is mention of the three sons of Guillaume d'Estouteville, seigneur of Torcy and Blainville, the latter possession being associated with the arms given in the Wijnbergen and Urfé Rolls. The sons,
Peter Howarth
On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 4:21:02 PM UTC-4, Peter Howarth wrote:at two and three a cross with twenty crosses recrossed, representing Mauquenchy, stamped with a face helm crowned on an old man's head supported by two crouching lions.
On Thursday, 23 March 2023 at 13:08:47 UTC, Darrell E. Larocque wrote:
On Thursday, March 23, 2023 at 5:56:47 AM UTC-4, Peter Howarth wrote:
On Thursday, 23 March 2023 at 03:15:26 UTC, Darrell E. Larocque wrote:
A new source which identifies Henri in 1205 and later Colart d'Estouteville in 1377:
Henry d'Estouteville. 1205. The seal is a rampant lion bypassed on a burly: f SIG HENRICI DE ETTOTE-
VILLA
In 1377, a receipt of pledges was given by Colart naming him "chevalier, seigneur de Torcy, capitaine d'Arques" with a seal that had a leaning shield, quartered, at one and four, burelé with a debruising lion representing d'Estouteville, and
a collection of snippets from earlier works. And your translation software unfortunately cannot cope with heraldic blazon.Victor Leblond. ''Notes pour le nobiliaire du Beauvaisis, d'après un manuscrit inédit du XVIIe siècle et autres documents originaux. Partie 3'', (Paris: E. Chmpion, 1913), p. 904.
https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k5410619d/f95.item
We know it is the correct Colart because he married Blanche de Mauquenchy in 1372 according to Anselme.The book by Victor Leblond, /Notes pour le nobiliaire du Beauvaisis : d'après un manuscrit inédit du XVIIe siècle et autres documents originaux/, was not new even when it was first published in three volumes between 1910 and 1913, since it is
being a three-volume catalogue of seals in the national collection in Paris. Entry 2114 is for an armorial seal (i.e. one where the principal device is a shield of arms) for Henri d'Estouteville, with the arms 'Barruly, a lion rampant to sinister' (on aThe first of the two items that you quote comes from the magisterial work by Louis-Claude Douët d’Arcq, /Collection de sceaux: inventaires et documents publiés par ordre de l’Empereur sous la direction de M. le comte de Laborde/, 1863-68,
tilted to the left, with quartered arms: 1 and 4, barruly, a lion*, 2 and 3, a cross between twenty crossed crosslets; crest: on a front-facing helm a coronet and an old man’s head; supporters: two lions sejant (sitting). The seal was apparently usedThe second item is from Joseph Roman, /Inventaire des sceaux de la collection des pièces originales du cabinet des titres à la Bibliothèque nationale/, 1909, number 4303 for Colart d’Estouteville. Another armorial seal, it has a shield,
There needs to be further evidence before you can be sure.It should also be noted that Leblond does not claim any connection, apart from the similarity of surname, between the two entries. Altogether, this means that there could well be the connections you want, but the entries in Leblond are not enough.
original French is not perfect by any means, but it gives me an idea at least for a beginning. I was trying to gauge whether or not there is some connection which could connect dots between de Torcy males, but if the armorials are common then it seems* 'a lion', in such catalogues, usually means a lion rampant facing to the viewer's left.
Peter HowarthPeter,
I didn't get a chance to review where Leblond himself got them from, only gathering the information initially to try and make sense of it and you have done that in a very comprehensive way and I very much appreciate that. The translation of the
sons, Robert, Jean and Estout, were apparently involved in the defence of Beauvais during the siege of 1472. This would probably place Guillaume at some time around the middle of the fifteenth century. The information was taken from Pierre César Renet, /DarrellAt the bottom of the next page of Leblond (p. 905), there is mention of the three sons of Guillaume d'Estouteville, seigneur of Torcy and Blainville, the latter possession being associated with the arms given in the Wijnbergen and Urfé Rolls. The
autre frère de Robert, Estout d'Estouteville, seigneur de Beaumont-le-Charlet, etc., également con- seiller et chambellan du Roi, était châtelain de Beau- vais, depuis 1438. Il avait aussi combattu pour la con- quête de la Normandie. Nulle part lePeter HowarthPeter,
I have access to the copy from 1898 on HathiTrust here in the USA, so here is the passage:
"Robert d'Estouteville avait enfin été autorisé à venir prendre part à la défense de Beauvais. M. de Torcy, qui amenait les nobles de Normandie était Jean d'Es- touteville, frère de Robert et seigneur de Torcy, Blainville, etc. (p. 24). Un
"Robert d'Estouteville had finally been authorized to come and take part in the defense of Beauvais. M. de Torcy, who brought the nobles from Normandy, was Jean d'Estouteville, brother of Robert and lord of Torcy, Blainville, &c. (p. 24). Anotherbrother of Robert, Estout d'Estouteville, lord of Beaumont-le-Charlet, etc., also councilor and chamberlain to the King, had been castellan of Beauvais since 1438. He had also fought for the conquest of from Normandy. Nowhere was the Estouteville lion
So there is the full passage thanks to your assistance!
Darrell
Sysop: | Keyop |
---|---|
Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
Users: | 297 |
Nodes: | 16 (2 / 14) |
Uptime: | 08:16:50 |
Calls: | 6,666 |
Files: | 12,213 |
Messages: | 5,336,192 |