On Sunday, January 27, 2013 at 9:52:58 AM UTC-5, John Watson wrote:
On Jan 27, 6:40 am, "TJ Booth" <tjbo...@aol.com> wrote:
On Saturday, January 26, 2013 2:30 AM, "John Watson" wrote :
<Snip>
So now I have a Hansard pedigree like this:
Sir Robert Hansard = Margaret Gascoigne?
died bef. 14 Feb 1391
|
Sir Richard Hansard = Joan Aske
1377 - 25 Nov 1428 ca. 1380 - aft. Apr 1440
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John, Will and all:
There are two different Hansard lines, one of Walworth Durham and one of South Kelsey. That one generation of Richard Hansards had wives named Joan (Aske, Hedworth) may be the source of much confusion and flawed pedigrees.
The previously noted will for Robert Hansard Chivaler 'of Walworth Durham' who d. bef 14 Feb 1390/91 [books.google.com/books?id=x_VVAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA132]
lists his children as :
Item lego Gilberto filio meo xx marcas sterl.
Et Roberto filio meo xx marc. sterl.
Et Johannae filia e mea e quater viginti marcas sterl. ad maritagium suum.
Item lego Margaretae filia e mea e centum solidos sterl.
Et Johanni filio meo xx marcas.
Et Willielmo filio meo xx marcas.
Et Marjoria e filia e mea e xx marcas
No Richard m. Aske, who didn't die until 1428 per your posts. Nor is the name of Robert Hansard's wife noted. There is a reasonable pedigree for Hansard of Walworth Durham (also has Hedworth) in Hutchinson, History and Antiquities of the County Palatine of Durham Vol 3 page xxiv [ books.google.com/books?id=tJAxAQAAMAAJ&pg=RA1-PR24 ] This suggests that Sir
Robert m. Margaret Gascoigne was the son of Sir Robert of the will - I have
Margaret as sister of the chief justice based on chronology. Also note that
the Richard m. Joan Aske is not shown.
The Visitation of the North pedigree for Aske of Ousthorpe [page 96, visitation in Surtees Vol 144 @www.uiowa.edu/~c030149a/northern/surtees144text.pdf] is quite early, which
I date to 1480 based on the people identified There is a rather good list of
Joan Aske's siblings, including brother John who m. Elizabeth dau of chief justice William Gascoigne [this chronology works, my notes suggest she was by first wife Elizabeth Mowbray], and seems a more reliable presentation of
the Aske family than later pedigrees. It states that 'Johanna nupta Ricardo
Hansard de Comitatu Lincoln' which is a bit of a way from Walworth Durham. He is not shown as a knight. Joan's husband was a Hansard of South Kelsey -
do not know where they connect with Durham.
Hansard was in South Kelsey for many years. 1303 Feudal aides for Lincolnshire, [books.google.com/books?id=3eArAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA138 ] shows South
Kelsey was held by Gilbert that earlier was held by John ("De Roberto Haunsard tenente j. f. in South Kelsey, quod Johannes Haunsard quondam tenuit."). In 1346 it was held by Robert son of Gilbert [page 214]: ("Robertus filius Gilberti Haunsard tenet j. f. in South Kellbsay, quod Robertus Haunsard quondam tenuit"). The same page has Gilbert's wife as Lora
Asterby "Lora, que fuit uxor Gilberti Haunsard, tenet vj. partem j. f. in Thornton, quam Rogerus de Asterby quondam tenuit." Richard Hansard held them
in 1431 [page 356] "Ricardus Haunsard de South Kelsay in comitatu Lincolnie, armiger, fuit seisitus etc. de terris et tenementis in South Kelsay et Thornton, que tenentur per medietatem un. f. m. His father, Richard d. 1428, of South Kelsey was sheriff in 1419.
From ARCHDEACON'S VISITATION, 1448. South KelseY. Richard Hansard senior,
Richard Hansard junr., Henry Hansard, Wm. Hansard, and several others, all of South Kelsey, presented for violence in S. Kelsey Church even to bloodshed, on 13 Dec. 1448. And Henry Hansard for laying violent hands on Wm. Workworth priest at Brantingham, "qui manet in Hull."
The related record notes "Hic jacent Dominus Ricardus Haunsard Miles et Domina Johanna nuperuxor ejus. Who dyed in the feast of St. Katherine A�
1428 and she dyed a� Domini 14... . His wife is surely Joan Aske, but I
question if his son is the one who m. Joan Hedworth - that is a flawed identification. There are also arms of Hansard impaling Aske (can't recall where - here?).
The question of this couple's descendants are found in Maddison's Lincolnshire pedigree for Hansard of South Kelsey, which starts with Sir Richard d. 1428 bur in South Kelsey church with wife Joan. The pedigree misidentifies her as Joan Hedworth, when she ought to be identified as Joan
Aske. [books.google.com/books?id=raNCAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA455] . The pedigree shows
their grandson Richard [not knight] age 9 in 1467 as the husband of Elizabeth Blount dau of Thomas Blount of Girsby by Agnes dau [and heir] of Sir John Hawley of Utterby. Elizabeth's sister was Anne Blount who m. William Marbury who had immigrant descendants - Blount was a descendant of Sancha de Ayala.
Terry Booth
Chicago IL
Terry,
The family of Hansard of South Kelsey Lincolnshire and Hansard of
Walworth, Durham are the same family. See my next post.
Regards,
John
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