Ida enjoyed a very high reputation for her pious life as Eustace's wife.
She had a long friendship with St Anselm, who would hardly have praised
her as extravagantly as he did in letters to her if her marriage had
been the cause of her husband's excommunication. This sort of
contretemps is never mentioned in the voluminous documentation of her
three famous sons, Eustace III of Boulogne, Godfrey of Bouillon the
great hero of the first crusade and Balduin I, king of Jerusalem. She is often called St Ida, but this is a slight exaggeration as she is
officially recognised only as (informally) beatified. Her commemoration
on 13 April (formerly on 14 April in some places) is noted as of local status, especially in Boulogne and Rouen.
On 09-Feb-23 5:02 PM, Peter Stewart wrote:
Ida enjoyed a very high reputation for her pious life as Eustace's wife. She had a long friendship with St Anselm, who would hardly have praisedI have no idea why I typed Rouen, when I meant Bayeux.
her as extravagantly as he did in letters to her if her marriage had
been the cause of her husband's excommunication. This sort of
contretemps is never mentioned in the voluminous documentation of her
three famous sons, Eustace III of Boulogne, Godfrey of Bouillon the
great hero of the first crusade and Balduin I, king of Jerusalem. She is often called St Ida, but this is a slight exaggeration as she is
officially recognised only as (informally) beatified. Her commemoration
on 13 April (formerly on 14 April in some places) is noted as of local status, especially in Boulogne and Rouen.
By the way, the closest relationship that can be traced (although not
100% definite) between Eustace and Godgifu is as 4th cousins twice
removed in descent from Alfred the Great. The closest that can be
documented between Eustace and Ida is as 5th cousins once removed in
descent from Louis the Stammerer. Neither of these connections is very
likely to have scandalised Pope Leo IX.
Peter Stewart
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Op donderdag 9 februari 2023 om 07:31:18 UTC+1 schreef pss...@optusnet.com.au:
On 09-Feb-23 5:02 PM, Peter Stewart wrote:
Ida enjoyed a very high reputation for her pious life as Eustace's wife. >>> She had a long friendship with St Anselm, who would hardly have praisedI have no idea why I typed Rouen, when I meant Bayeux.
her as extravagantly as he did in letters to her if her marriage had
been the cause of her husband's excommunication. This sort of
contretemps is never mentioned in the voluminous documentation of her
three famous sons, Eustace III of Boulogne, Godfrey of Bouillon the
great hero of the first crusade and Balduin I, king of Jerusalem. She is >>> often called St Ida, but this is a slight exaggeration as she is
officially recognised only as (informally) beatified. Her commemoration
on 13 April (formerly on 14 April in some places) is noted as of local
status, especially in Boulogne and Rouen.
By the way, the closest relationship that can be traced (although not
100% definite) between Eustace and Godgifu is as 4th cousins twice
removed in descent from Alfred the Great. The closest that can be
documented between Eustace and Ida is as 5th cousins once removed in
descent from Louis the Stammerer. Neither of these connections is very
likely to have scandalised Pope Leo IX.
Peter Stewart
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com
Could this (hypothetical) second wife not be the mother of the illegitimate son Geoffrey?
I have read somewhere (counts of Namour?) that children born from a "incestuous" marriage (be it in the 4th degree) could be barred from succession because of the blemish of their birth.
On 09-Feb-23 6:54 PM, Hans Vogels wrote:
Op donderdag 9 februari 2023 om 07:31:18 UTC+1 schreef pss...@optusnet.com.au:
On 09-Feb-23 5:02 PM, Peter Stewart wrote:
On Thursday, February 9, 2023 at 4:03:12 AM UTC-5, pss...@optusnet.com.au wrote:
On 09-Feb-23 6:54 PM, Hans Vogels wrote:Does this mean that the parentage of Geoffrey of Carshalton is unknown?? Or is he still considered to be an illegitimate son of Eustace II of Boulogne??
Op donderdag 9 februari 2023 om 07:31:18 UTC+1 schreef pss...@optusnet.com.au:
On 09-Feb-23 5:02 PM, Peter Stewart wrote:
On Thursday, February 9, 2023 at 4:03:12 AM UTC-5, pss...@optusnet.com.au wrote:
On 09-Feb-23 6:54 PM, Hans Vogels wrote:
Op donderdag 9 februari 2023 om 07:31:18 UTC+1 schreef pss...@optusnet.com.au:
On 09-Feb-23 5:02 PM, Peter Stewart wrote:
Does this mean that the parentage of Geoffrey of Carshalton is unknown?? Or is he still considered to be an illegitimate son of Eustace II of Boulogne??
Geoffrey's grandson Faramus of Tingry, castellan of Dover (where
Eustace's travelling entourage caused mayhem in 1071)
On 10-Feb-23 9:09 AM, Peter Stewart wrote:
Geoffrey's grandson Faramus of Tingry, castellan of Dover (whereApologies, 1051 not 1071. Morning fingers.
Eustace's travelling entourage caused mayhem in 1071)
Peter Stewart
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On 10-Feb-23 9:09 AM, Peter Stewart wrote:
On Thursday, February 9, 2023 at 5:11:26 PM UTC-5, Peter Stewart wrote:
On 10-Feb-23 9:09 AM, Peter Stewart wrote:
Thanks taf and Peter for the clarification.
Also a shout out to Peter for introducing me (an American) to the word shonky, which he used in a post yesterday. I thought this was a typo but no, it's a real word. And I can see that it will be an eminently useful addition to my vocabulary.
Eustace visited England in September 1051, when he was mentioned in the Worcester (D) version of the Anglo-Saxon chronicle as having married the sister of Edward the Confessor, see folio 73r here https://www.bl.uk/manuscripts/Viewer.aspx?ref=cotton_ms_tiberius_b_iv_f073r: "com eustatius up æt doferan se hæfde eadƿardes cẏnges sƿeostor to ƿife" (Eustace arrived at Dover who had King Edward's sister as wife). The preterite verb "hæfde"suggests that the marriage was over by that time - or at any rate by the time of writing. This information was later repeated in the Latin chronicle ascribed to John of Worcester (formerly to Florence of Worcester), see p. 336 here
https://digital.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/objects/93b83416-7972-40d7-9789-18f54e17ae25/surfaces/621ea924-0e11-4807-ba2c-4f3ca849dbac/: "bononiensis comes Eustatius [senior] qui sororem EADWARDI regis Godam nomine in coniugium habuerat paucis doruuerniamapplicuit nauibus" (Eustace [the elder] count of Boulogne who had the sister of King Edward in marriage arrived at Canterbury with a few ships), where the verb "habuerat" is pluperfect also suggesting the marriage was understood to be over in contrast to
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