Hello,
I am new to the group and very new to doing genealogical research and I would appreciate some help in researching my Taylor line.
If I follow one line, it takes me from Hanger Taylifer to Guillaume William Frank de Borsale Taylifer which states that he is a son of Aymer, Count of Angouleme.
The problems with that timeline are the following:
1) The various dob's not synching up with the ancestor or partner;
2) I can't find that Aymer had any other children other than Isabella who married King John of England.
In the other line, it pretty much ends as Hanger's father having the name of William Tayilifer with a dob of 1200 and the trail ends there.
If anyone could help me with this, I would appreciate it very much.
On Thursday, January 19, 2023 at 9:14:27 PM UTC-8, bbh...@yahoo.com wrote:Borsale Taylifer is an absurdity. He was probably first conjured into existence with a simpler name but then progressively elaborated to give a false sense of gentility. Even Hanger is not a normal name from the culture and period. It is seriously
Hello,
I am new to the group and very new to doing genealogical research and I would appreciate some help in researching my Taylor line.
If I follow one line, it takes me from Hanger Taylifer to Guillaume William Frank de Borsale Taylifer which states that he is a son of Aymer, Count of Angouleme.
The problems with that timeline are the following:
1) The various dob's not synching up with the ancestor or partner;
2) I can't find that Aymer had any other children other than Isabella who married King John of England.
In the other line, it pretty much ends as Hanger's father having the name of William Tayilifer with a dob of 1200 and the trail ends there.
If anyone could help me with this, I would appreciate it very much.Not sure this is what you had in mind by help, but the sorry truth is that it is all made up. All of it. Aymer existed, and he left a sole known child, Isabelle, wife successively of King John and of Hugh X de Lusignan. The name William Frank de
I strongly suspect that you need to look father down the pedigree before you come to the first authentic ancestor in this claimed tree. The overwhelming majority of Taylors descend from tradesmen, not nobility, and these tradesmen cannot be tracedearlier than the 16th century. However, there is a long history of Taylor 'genealogists' letting their imagination run wild, and inventing ancestral lines to the Counts of Angouleme, because a few of them used a personal nickname (not a surname) that was
taf
Well Hanger Taylefer alias Taylor did exist, at least according to Burke's
https://www.google.com/books/edition/Genealogical_and_Heraldic_Dictionary_of/0NEKAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=Humphrey%20de%20Fairsted&pg=PA1358&printsec=frontcover
Some intrepid amateur has put his father as this wild name you mentioned, but there is no source for it.
I would suggest that his *name* was not "Frank" but rather that someone has decided that he must be *a* "Frank"
That is, a person from that area of France inhabited by the "Franks" (a race, not a name)
And of course William is just the modern English version of Guillaume, so that's the exact same name
On Friday, January 20, 2023 at 1:23:10 AM UTC-5, taf wrote:period. It is seriously problematic, likely either invented or garbled, perhaps both.
On Thursday, January 19, 2023 at 9:14:27 PM UTC-8, bbh...@yahoo.com wrote:
If I follow one line, it takes me from Hanger Taylifer to Guillaume William Frank de Borsale Taylifer which states that he is a son of Aymer, Count of Angouleme.
The name William Frank de Borsale Taylifer is an absurdity. He was probably first conjured into existence with a simpler name but then progressively elaborated to give a false sense of gentility. Even Hanger is not a normal name from the culture and
I guess Guillaume William Frank de Borsale Taylifer could be the name of someone born in the mid-1800s or later. Her original post is a little vague on that. Maybe she's indicating Hanger Taylifer is the son of Aymer?
But correct, no one born near the time of Aymer, Count of Angouleme, would have more than one given name.
On Friday, January 20, 2023 at 10:40:36 AM UTC-5, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
Well Hanger Taylefer alias Taylor did exist, at least according to Burke's
Hanger Taylefer is apparently mentioned in Dugdale, 4:289.https://www.google.com/books/edition/Notes_and_Queries/t7URAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=hanger+ospringe&pg=PA308&printsec=frontcover
On Thursday, January 19, 2023 at 9:14:27 PM UTC-8, bbh...@yahoo.com wrote:Borsale Taylifer is an absurdity. He was probably first conjured into existence with a simpler name but then progressively elaborated to give a false sense of gentility. Even Hanger is not a normal name from the culture and period. It is seriously
Hello,
I am new to the group and very new to doing genealogical research and I would appreciate some help in researching my Taylor line.
If I follow one line, it takes me from Hanger Taylifer to Guillaume William Frank de Borsale Taylifer which states that he is a son of Aymer, Count of Angouleme.
The problems with that timeline are the following:
1) The various dob's not synching up with the ancestor or partner;
2) I can't find that Aymer had any other children other than Isabella who married King John of England.
In the other line, it pretty much ends as Hanger's father having the name of William Tayilifer with a dob of 1200 and the trail ends there.
If anyone could help me with this, I would appreciate it very much.
Not sure this is what you had in mind by help, but the sorry truth is that it is all made up. All of it. Aymer existed, and he left a sole known child, Isabelle, wife successively of King John and of Hugh X de Lusignan. The name William Frank de
I strongly suspect that you need to look father down the pedigree before you come to the first authentic ancestor in this claimed tree. The overwhelming majority of Taylors descend from tradesmen, not nobility, and these tradesmen cannot be tracedearlier than the 16th century. However, there is a long history of Taylor 'genealogists' letting their imagination run wild, and inventing ancestral lines to the Counts of Angouleme, because a few of them used a personal nickname (not a surname) that
i thought it might have been a strange spelling of Henry but now you've
found this, i wonder if its a old danish/viking name introduced by the normans.
On 20-Jan-23 5:23 PM, taf wrote:Borsale Taylifer is an absurdity. He was probably first conjured into existence with a simpler name but then progressively elaborated to give a false sense of gentility. Even Hanger is not a normal name from the culture and period. It is seriously
On Thursday, January 19, 2023 at 9:14:27 PM UTC-8, bbh...@yahoo.com wrote:
Hello,
I am new to the group and very new to doing genealogical research and I would appreciate some help in researching my Taylor line.
If I follow one line, it takes me from Hanger Taylifer to Guillaume William Frank de Borsale Taylifer which states that he is a son of Aymer, Count of Angouleme.
The problems with that timeline are the following:
1) The various dob's not synching up with the ancestor or partner;
2) I can't find that Aymer had any other children other than Isabella who married King John of England.
In the other line, it pretty much ends as Hanger's father having the name of William Tayilifer with a dob of 1200 and the trail ends there.
If anyone could help me with this, I would appreciate it very much.
Not sure this is what you had in mind by help, but the sorry truth is that it is all made up. All of it. Aymer existed, and he left a sole known child, Isabelle, wife successively of King John and of Hugh X de Lusignan. The name William Frank de
earlier than the 16th century. However, there is a long history of Taylor 'genealogists' letting their imagination run wild, and inventing ancestral lines to the Counts of Angouleme, because a few of them used a personal nickname (not a surname) that wasI strongly suspect that you need to look father down the pedigree before you come to the first authentic ancestor in this claimed tree. The overwhelming majority of Taylors descend from tradesmen, not nobility, and these tradesmen cannot be traced
This is a case of false etymology anyway - the surname Taylor is, as you say, from the trade of the tailor, derived from the Anglo-Norman
taillour (modern French tailleur) which simply means a non-specific
cutter, e.g. usually of cloth, or sometimes of gemstones etc.
There was an Anglo-Norman family surnamed Taillebois, from their
original toponym (the place in Normandy was presumably named from a woodcutter).
In the case of the first count of Angoulême to carry Taillefer (= iron cutter) as a byname, Guillem II in the first half of the 10th century,
this allegedly came from his having cut with a single stroke through the iron breast-plate and chest of a Viking. He was succeeded by a bastard
son, Arnaud Manzer, whose own son named after Guillem was also known as Taillefer presumably as a mark of continuity with the old high-born
lineage. The epithet subsequently became hereditary.
The uncommon forname Hanger also occurs in late-12th century charters
for St Mary's abbey, Dublin, pp. 126 and 204 here: https://books.google.com.au/books?id=vP4KAAAAYAAJ.
On Saturday, January 21, 2023 at 3:40:14 PM UTC-8, mike davis wrote:
i thought it might have been a strange spelling of Henry but now you've found this, i wonder if its a old danish/viking name introduced by the normans.I had the same thought. Maybe a highly corrupted derivative of Angentheow. However, etymology is prone to be misled by coincidental false-cognates.
taf
On Saturday, January 21, 2023 at 11:47:00 PM UTC, taf wrote:
On Saturday, January 21, 2023 at 3:40:14 PM UTC-8, mike davis wrote:
i thought it might have been a strange spelling of Henry but now you'veI had the same thought. Maybe a highly corrupted derivative of Angentheow. However, etymology is prone to be misled by coincidental false-cognates.
found this, i wonder if its a old danish/viking name introduced by the normans.
taf
yes and in case anyone still believes in this Tailefer to Taylor connection theres an old discussion about this exact line here
https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/311655/has-any-one-got-evidence-of-a-taylor-taillefer-connection
the answer is clearly no
On Saturday, January 21, 2023 at 3:40:14 PM UTC-8, mike davis wrote:
i thought it might have been a strange spelling of Henry but now you've found this, i wonder if its a old danish/viking name introduced by the normans.I had the same thought. Maybe a highly corrupted derivative of Angentheow. However, etymology is prone to be misled by coincidental false-cognates.
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