Durin
On Saturday, March 30, 2002 at 5:53:13 PM UTC-5, minnma...@yahoo.com wrote:son of Beatrice and John, married Ann Welles, daughter of Governor Thomas Welles of Connecticut. These claims are supposedly well documented and accepted in several
Durin
(I've re-formatted a part of the original posting to make it more legible ...)
The interest in this marriage--for at least myself and Mr. Davis--is in regards to the ancestry of Beatrice Detton (Dodington) of Shropshire. Beatrice is known to have married John Thom(p)son of Sherehouse, Burford Parish, Shropshire. Thomas Thompson,
sources.s Genealogical Notes, and publications of the Welles Family Association. Other sources are identified within:
For our interest, below is a draft pedigree of Beatrice through the Broughtons, Havens, St. Owen, Tirrell, and Downton families of Salop and Herefordshire. The information has been gathered from the Visitations of Shropshire and Herefordshire, Flagg’
1. Beatrice Detton (Dodington)baptized 21 Jun 1584. Married John Thompson, 12 Apr 1608, Neen Savage, Shropshire.of Judith (Lukin) Ward's probable mother, Thomasine (Ap Walter or Ap Thomas) Lukin of Mashbury, Essex.
2. George Detton (Dodington) born about 1552. Married about 1575 Anne, daughter off Walter ap Thomas.
...
...
END of QUOTE.
---------
Flagg's _Genealogical Notes_ does make it clear that one of the children of Beatrice (Detton) Thomson was the immigrant to Connecticut. I had speculated here, in postings now removed, that the Anne "ap Thomas" who married George Detton was a kinswoman
An article by the Rev. R. C. Purton on "Detton [Family]" in _Transactions of the Shropshire Archaeological Society_ 4th series, vol. 10 (1925-26), seems to confirm this surmise (or at least further supports it), pp. 258-59:She was buried at Neen in 1613. During his life-time George Detton conveyed all his lands (except Ingardine) to his son Thomas, who however predeceased him. The following letter is given by Blakeway, and was then in the possession of John Cresset Pelham:-
GEORGE DETTON, son and heir of Robert, married Ann, daughter of Walter ap Thomas of Teyhall. In one of Wm. Mytton's MSS. (cited by Blakeway) she is described as daughter of William Walter of Kerrickhowell, Co. Brecon by Elizabeth Denton of Co. Oxon.
'Right worshipfull my very hartye and humble commendacions unto yor worshippe most hartely remembred with like thankes for yor greate curtesye at all tymes. I have (accordinge to yor worshippes frendly offer) sent this bearer my man unto yow desyringeyor worshippe to lend me a corselett to shew to morowe before yor worshippe and the rest of the Justices at Brydnorth, and the bearer hereof at night shall bringe the same backe agayne, for myne owne apperance I hope yor worshippe will pardon me. I have
yor worshippes to commaund1609 to 1659.
George Detton
To the right worshipfull Mr. Richard Cresset Esquier at Upton Cressett geve these.'
George Detton was buried at Neen in 1619.
Besides two sons (i) Thomas and (ii) George, of whom more hereafter, George Detton had six daughters viz.:--
(iii) Mary, bapt. at Neen in 1576, waiting gentlewoman to Lady Newport, married at High Ercall in 1613 to Rev. Francis Garbet, and buried at Neen in 1614, leaving an infant son George, who was buried in 1617 at Wroxeter, where his father was Vicar from
(iv) Frances, bapt. at Neen in 1577, married there in 1598 to Rev. William Berkeley, Rector of Clungunford, where she was buried in 1650.of Sherehouse were baptized at Burford from 1610. She was buried there in 1650.
(v) Catharine, bapt. at Neen in 1579, married there in 1610 to James Wrottesley, who was assessed to Subsidy for lands in Detton in 1628.
(vi) Elizabeth, bapt. at Neen in 1581.
(vii) Beatrice, bapt. at Neen in 1584, married there in 1608 to Richard Thompson. I think this is a mistake for _John_ Thompson, for George, son of John "Tumpsone," was baptized at Neen the following year, and the children of John and Beatrice Thompson
(viii) Ann, baptized at Neen in 1589, wife of Richard Griffiths.probable mother of Judith Warde, wife of Edward Warde. Remember that Elizabeth was sometimes interchangeable with Isabel at this time.
END of QUOTE.
-------------
See ...
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=inu.30000116575667&view=1up&seq=320&q1=%22thomas%20of%20teyhall%22
Ernest Flagg's book mentions the error of Beatrice's groom's first name being recorded as "Richard" rather than "John." It also uses a modified spelling of his surname, Thomson or even Tomson, I believe.
William Mytton's identification of the parentage of Ann Detton as "William Walter of Kerrickhowell, Co. Brecon ... [and] Elizabeth Denton of Co. Oxon" is very helpful, as those were definitely also the parents of Thomasine ([ap] Walter) Lukyn, the
The will of Beatrice Detton's husband is this one (apparently unknown to Flagg); it mentions the couple's brother-in-law George Detton.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D887583
On Friday, January 13, 2023 at 6:28:38 PM UTC-5, Johnny Brananas wrote:son of Beatrice and John, married Ann Welles, daughter of Governor Thomas Welles of Connecticut. These claims are supposedly well documented and accepted in several
On Saturday, March 30, 2002 at 5:53:13 PM UTC-5, minnma...@yahoo.com wrote:
Durin
(I've re-formatted a part of the original posting to make it more legible ...)
The interest in this marriage--for at least myself and Mr. Davis--is in regards to the ancestry of Beatrice Detton (Dodington) of Shropshire. Beatrice is known to have married John Thom(p)son of Sherehouse, Burford Parish, Shropshire. Thomas Thompson,
s Genealogical Notes, and publications of the Welles Family Association. Other sources are identified within:sources.
For our interest, below is a draft pedigree of Beatrice through the Broughtons, Havens, St. Owen, Tirrell, and Downton families of Salop and Herefordshire. The information has been gathered from the Visitations of Shropshire and Herefordshire, Flagg
kinswoman of Judith (Lukin) Ward's probable mother, Thomasine (Ap Walter or Ap Thomas) Lukin of Mashbury, Essex.1. Beatrice Detton (Dodington)baptized 21 Jun 1584. Married John Thompson, 12 Apr 1608, Neen Savage, Shropshire.
2. George Detton (Dodington) born about 1552. Married about 1575 Anne, daughter off Walter ap Thomas.
...
...
END of QUOTE.
---------
Flagg's _Genealogical Notes_ does make it clear that one of the children of Beatrice (Detton) Thomson was the immigrant to Connecticut. I had speculated here, in postings now removed, that the Anne "ap Thomas" who married George Detton was a
She was buried at Neen in 1613. During his life-time George Detton conveyed all his lands (except Ingardine) to his son Thomas, who however predeceased him. The following letter is given by Blakeway, and was then in the possession of John Cresset Pelham:-An article by the Rev. R. C. Purton on "Detton [Family]" in _Transactions of the Shropshire Archaeological Society_ 4th series, vol. 10 (1925-26), seems to confirm this surmise (or at least further supports it), pp. 258-59:
GEORGE DETTON, son and heir of Robert, married Ann, daughter of Walter ap Thomas of Teyhall. In one of Wm. Mytton's MSS. (cited by Blakeway) she is described as daughter of William Walter of Kerrickhowell, Co. Brecon by Elizabeth Denton of Co. Oxon.
desyringe yor worshippe to lend me a corselett to shew to morowe before yor worshippe and the rest of the Justices at Brydnorth, and the bearer hereof at night shall bringe the same backe agayne, for myne owne apperance I hope yor worshippe will pardon'Right worshipfull my very hartye and humble commendacions unto yor worshippe most hartely remembred with like thankes for yor greate curtesye at all tymes. I have (accordinge to yor worshippes frendly offer) sent this bearer my man unto yow
from 1609 to 1659.yor worshippes to commaund
George Detton
To the right worshipfull Mr. Richard Cresset Esquier at Upton Cressett geve these.'
George Detton was buried at Neen in 1619.
Besides two sons (i) Thomas and (ii) George, of whom more hereafter, George Detton had six daughters viz.:--
(iii) Mary, bapt. at Neen in 1576, waiting gentlewoman to Lady Newport, married at High Ercall in 1613 to Rev. Francis Garbet, and buried at Neen in 1614, leaving an infant son George, who was buried in 1617 at Wroxeter, where his father was Vicar
Thompson of Sherehouse were baptized at Burford from 1610. She was buried there in 1650.(iv) Frances, bapt. at Neen in 1577, married there in 1598 to Rev. William Berkeley, Rector of Clungunford, where she was buried in 1650.
(v) Catharine, bapt. at Neen in 1579, married there in 1610 to James Wrottesley, who was assessed to Subsidy for lands in Detton in 1628.
(vi) Elizabeth, bapt. at Neen in 1581.
(vii) Beatrice, bapt. at Neen in 1584, married there in 1608 to Richard Thompson. I think this is a mistake for _John_ Thompson, for George, son of John "Tumpsone," was baptized at Neen the following year, and the children of John and Beatrice
probable mother of Judith Warde, wife of Edward Warde. Remember that Elizabeth was sometimes interchangeable with Isabel at this time.(viii) Ann, baptized at Neen in 1589, wife of Richard Griffiths.
END of QUOTE.
-------------
See ...
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=inu.30000116575667&view=1up&seq=320&q1=%22thomas%20of%20teyhall%22
Ernest Flagg's book mentions the error of Beatrice's groom's first name being recorded as "Richard" rather than "John." It also uses a modified spelling of his surname, Thomson or even Tomson, I believe.
William Mytton's identification of the parentage of Ann Detton as "William Walter of Kerrickhowell, Co. Brecon ... [and] Elizabeth Denton of Co. Oxon" is very helpful, as those were definitely also the parents of Thomasine ([ap] Walter) Lukyn, the
The will of Beatrice Detton's husband is this one (apparently unknown to Flagg); it mentions the couple's brother-in-law George Detton.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D887583Link to a PDF of Matthew Hovious's article on Edward Warde and his wife Judith (unsure if this is on the right side of copyright law, but whatever) ... The ap Walter Thomas apparent connection is discussed at the end.
http://www.livhelenewillumsen.no/res/The%20Genealogist_article.pdf
The only other thing I've found in the intervening years is that one of John and Beatrice (Detton) Thomson's sons was an Oxford student ...
T(h)omson, John, s. John of Burford, Salop, pleb. BALLIOL COLL., matric. 15 June 1632, aged 16. B.A. 2 Nov., 1634, M.A. 19 Oct., 1637.
https://www.google.com/books/edition/Alumni_Oxonienses_S_Z/JRIBAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=tompson+burford&pg=PA1476&printsec=frontcover
I think I found that the age matched with his baptismal record around 1616.
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 12:59:59 PM UTC-5, JBrand wrote:Thompson, son of Beatrice and John, married Ann Welles, daughter of Governor Thomas Welles of Connecticut. These claims are supposedly well documented and accepted in several
On Friday, January 13, 2023 at 6:28:38 PM UTC-5, Johnny Brananas wrote:
On Saturday, March 30, 2002 at 5:53:13 PM UTC-5, minnma...@yahoo.com wrote:
Durin
(I've re-formatted a part of the original posting to make it more legible ...)
The interest in this marriage--for at least myself and Mr. Davis--is in regards to the ancestry of Beatrice Detton (Dodington) of Shropshire. Beatrice is known to have married John Thom(p)son of Sherehouse, Burford Parish, Shropshire. Thomas
Flagg’s Genealogical Notes, and publications of the Welles Family Association. Other sources are identified within:sources.
For our interest, below is a draft pedigree of Beatrice through the Broughtons, Havens, St. Owen, Tirrell, and Downton families of Salop and Herefordshire. The information has been gathered from the Visitations of Shropshire and Herefordshire,
kinswoman of Judith (Lukin) Ward's probable mother, Thomasine (Ap Walter or Ap Thomas) Lukin of Mashbury, Essex.1. Beatrice Detton (Dodington)baptized 21 Jun 1584. Married John Thompson, 12 Apr 1608, Neen Savage, Shropshire.
2. George Detton (Dodington) born about 1552. Married about 1575 Anne, daughter off Walter ap Thomas.
...
...
END of QUOTE.
---------
Flagg's _Genealogical Notes_ does make it clear that one of the children of Beatrice (Detton) Thomson was the immigrant to Connecticut. I had speculated here, in postings now removed, that the Anne "ap Thomas" who married George Detton was a
She was buried at Neen in 1613. During his life-time George Detton conveyed all his lands (except Ingardine) to his son Thomas, who however predeceased him. The following letter is given by Blakeway, and was then in the possession of John Cresset Pelham:An article by the Rev. R. C. Purton on "Detton [Family]" in _Transactions of the Shropshire Archaeological Society_ 4th series, vol. 10 (1925-26), seems to confirm this surmise (or at least further supports it), pp. 258-59:
GEORGE DETTON, son and heir of Robert, married Ann, daughter of Walter ap Thomas of Teyhall. In one of Wm. Mytton's MSS. (cited by Blakeway) she is described as daughter of William Walter of Kerrickhowell, Co. Brecon by Elizabeth Denton of Co. Oxon.
desyringe yor worshippe to lend me a corselett to shew to morowe before yor worshippe and the rest of the Justices at Brydnorth, and the bearer hereof at night shall bringe the same backe agayne, for myne owne apperance I hope yor worshippe will pardon'Right worshipfull my very hartye and humble commendacions unto yor worshippe most hartely remembred with like thankes for yor greate curtesye at all tymes. I have (accordinge to yor worshippes frendly offer) sent this bearer my man unto yow
yor worshippes to commaund
Ge
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 1:02:45 PM UTC-5, JBrand wrote:Thompson, son of Beatrice and John, married Ann Welles, daughter of Governor Thomas Welles of Connecticut. These claims are supposedly well documented and accepted in several
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 12:59:59 PM UTC-5, JBrand wrote:
On Friday, January 13, 2023 at 6:28:38 PM UTC-5, Johnny Brananas wrote:
On Saturday, March 30, 2002 at 5:53:13 PM UTC-5, minnma...@yahoo.com wrote:
Durin
(I've re-formatted a part of the original posting to make it more legible ...)
The interest in this marriage--for at least myself and Mr. Davis--is in regards to the ancestry of Beatrice Detton (Dodington) of Shropshire. Beatrice is known to have married John Thom(p)son of Sherehouse, Burford Parish, Shropshire. Thomas
Flagg’s Genealogical Notes, and publications of the Welles Family Association. Other sources are identified within:sources.
For our interest, below is a draft pedigree of Beatrice through the Broughtons, Havens, St. Owen, Tirrell, and Downton families of Salop and Herefordshire. The information has been gathered from the Visitations of Shropshire and Herefordshire,
kinswoman of Judith (Lukin) Ward's probable mother, Thomasine (Ap Walter or Ap Thomas) Lukin of Mashbury, Essex.1. Beatrice Detton (Dodington)baptized 21 Jun 1584. Married John Thompson, 12 Apr 1608, Neen Savage, Shropshire.
2. George Detton (Dodington) born about 1552. Married about 1575 Anne, daughter off Walter ap Thomas.
...
...
END of QUOTE.
---------
Flagg's _Genealogical Notes_ does make it clear that one of the children of Beatrice (Detton) Thomson was the immigrant to Connecticut. I had speculated here, in postings now removed, that the Anne "ap Thomas" who married George Detton was a
Oxon. She was buried at Neen in 1613. During his life-time George Detton conveyed all his lands (except Ingardine) to his son Thomas, who however predeceased him. The following letter is given by Blakeway, and was then in the possession of John CressetAn article by the Rev. R. C. Purton on "Detton [Family]" in _Transactions of the Shropshire Archaeological Society_ 4th series, vol. 10 (1925-26), seems to confirm this surmise (or at least further supports it), pp. 258-59:
GEORGE DETTON, son and heir of Robert, married Ann, daughter of Walter ap Thomas of Teyhall. In one of Wm. Mytton's MSS. (cited by Blakeway) she is described as daughter of William Walter of Kerrickhowell, Co. Brecon by Elizabeth Denton of Co.
desyringe yor worshippe to lend me a corselett to shew to morowe before yor worshippe and the rest of the Justices at Brydnorth, and the bearer hereof at night shall bringe the same backe agayne, for myne owne apperance I hope yor worshippe will pardon'Right worshipfull my very hartye and humble commendacions unto yor worshippe most hartely remembred with like thankes for yor greate curtesye at all tymes. I have (accordinge to yor worshippes frendly offer) sent this bearer my man unto yow
Vicar from 1609 to 1659.yor worshippes to commaund
George Detton
To the right worshipfull Mr. Richard Cresset Esquier at Upton Cressett geve these.'
George Detton was buried at Neen in 1619.
Besides two sons (i) Thomas and (ii) George, of whom more hereafter, George Detton had six daughters viz.:--
(iii) Mary, bapt. at Neen in 1576, waiting gentlewoman to Lady Newport, married at High Ercall in 1613 to Rev. Francis Garbet, and buried at Neen in 1614, leaving an infant son George, who was buried in 1617 at Wroxeter, where his father was
Thompson of Sherehouse were baptized at Burford from 1610. She was buried there in 1650.(iv) Frances, bapt. at Neen in 1577, married there in 1598 to Rev. William Berkeley, Rector of Clungunford, where she was buried in 1650.
(v) Catharine, bapt. at Neen in 1579, married there in 1610 to James Wrottesley, who was assessed to Subsidy for lands in Detton in 1628.
(vi) Elizabeth, bapt. at Neen in 1581.
(vii) Beatrice, bapt. at Neen in 1584, married there in 1608 to Richard Thompson. I think this is a mistake for _John_ Thompson, for George, son of John "Tumpsone," was baptized at Neen the following year, and the children of John and Beatrice
the probable mother of Judith Warde, wife of Edward Warde. Remember that Elizabeth was sometimes interchangeable with Isabel at this time.(viii) Ann, baptized at Neen in 1589, wife of Richard Griffiths.
END of QUOTE.
-------------
See ...
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=inu.30000116575667&view=1up&seq=320&q1=%22thomas%20of%20teyhall%22
Ernest Flagg's book mentions the error of Beatrice's groom's first name being recorded as "Richard" rather than "John." It also uses a modified spelling of his surname, Thomson or even Tomson, I believe.
William Mytton's identification of the parentage of Ann Detton as "William Walter of Kerrickhowell, Co. Brecon ... [and] Elizabeth Denton of Co. Oxon" is very helpful, as those were definitely also the parents of Thomasine ([ap] Walter) Lukyn,
The will of Beatrice Detton's husband is this one (apparently unknown to Flagg); it mentions the couple's brother-in-law George Detton.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D887583Link to a PDF of Matthew Hovious's article on Edward Warde and his wife Judith (unsure if this is on the right side of copyright law, but whatever) ... The ap Walter Thomas apparent connection is discussed at the end.
http://www.livhelenewillumsen.no/res/The%20Genealogist_article.pdf
The only other thing I've found in the intervening years is that one of John and Beatrice (Detton) Thomson's sons was an Oxford student ...
T(h)omson, John, s. John of Burford, Salop, pleb. BALLIOL COLL., matric. 15 June 1632, aged 16. B.A. 2 Nov., 1634, M.A. 19 Oct., 1637.
https://www.google.com/books/edition/Alumni_Oxonienses_S_Z/JRIBAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=tompson+burford&pg=PA1476&printsec=frontcover
https://www.google.com/books/edition/Genealogical_Gleanings_in_England/caNCAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22matthew+poole%22+beatrice&pg=PA1061&printsec=frontcoverI think I found that the age matched with his baptismal record around 1616.Sorry, PDF only has the first page of the article.
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 2:51:42 PM UTC-5, JBrand wrote:Thompson, son of Beatrice and John, married Ann Welles, daughter of Governor Thomas Welles of Connecticut. These claims are supposedly well documented and accepted in several
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 1:02:45 PM UTC-5, JBrand wrote:
On Saturday, January 14, 2023 at 12:59:59 PM UTC-5, JBrand wrote:
On Friday, January 13, 2023 at 6:28:38 PM UTC-5, Johnny Brananas wrote:
On Saturday, March 30, 2002 at 5:53:13 PM UTC-5, minnma...@yahoo.com wrote:
Durin
(I've re-formatted a part of the original posting to make it more legible ...)
The interest in this marriage--for at least myself and Mr. Davis--is in regards to the ancestry of Beatrice Detton (Dodington) of Shropshire. Beatrice is known to have married John Thom(p)son of Sherehouse, Burford Parish, Shropshire. Thomas
Flagg’s Genealogical Notes, and publications of the Welles Family Association. Other sources are identified within:sources.
For our interest, below is a draft pedigree of Beatrice through the Broughtons, Havens, St. Owen, Tirrell, and Downton families of Salop and Herefordshire. The information has been gathered from the Visitations of Shropshire and Herefordshire,
kinswoman of Judith (Lukin) Ward's probable mother, Thomasine (Ap Walter or Ap Thomas) Lukin of Mashbury, Essex.1. Beatrice Detton (Dodington)baptized 21 Jun 1584. Married John Thompson, 12 Apr 1608, Neen Savage, Shropshire.
2. George Detton (Dodington) born about 1552. Married about 1575 Anne, daughter off Walter ap Thomas.
...
...
END of QUOTE.
---------
Flagg's _Genealogical Notes_ does make it clear that one of the children of Beatrice (Detton) Thomson was the immigrant to Connecticut. I had speculated here, in postings now removed, that the Anne "ap Thomas" who married George Detton was a
Oxon. She was buried at Neen in 1613. During his life-time George Detton conveyed all his lands (except Ingardine) to his son Thomas, who however predeceased him. The following letter is given by Blakeway, and was then in the possession of John CressetAn article by the Rev. R. C. Purton on "Detton [Family]" in _Transactions of the Shropshire Archaeological Society_ 4th series, vol. 10 (1925-26), seems to confirm this surmise (or at least further supports it), pp. 258-59:
GEORGE DETTON, son and heir of Robert, married Ann, daughter of Walter ap Thomas of Teyhall. In one of Wm. Mytton's MSS. (cited by Blakeway) she is described as daughter of William Walter of Kerrickhowell, Co. Brecon by Elizabeth Denton of Co.
desyringe yor worshippe to lend me a corselett to shew to morowe before yor worshippe and the rest of the Justices at Brydnorth, and the bearer hereof at night shall bringe the same backe agayne, for myne owne apperance I hope yor worshippe will pardon'Right worshipfull my very hartye and humble commendacions unto yor worshippe most hartely remembred with like thankes for yor greate curtesye at all tymes. I have (accordinge to yor worshippes frendly offer) sent this bearer my man unto yow
Vicar from 1609 to 1659.yor worshippes to commaund
George Detton
To the right worshipfull Mr. Richard Cresset Esquier at Upton Cressett geve these.'
George Detton was buried at Neen in 1619.
Besides two sons (i) Thomas and (ii) George, of whom more hereafter, George Detton had six daughters viz.:--
(iii) Mary, bapt. at Neen in 1576, waiting gentlewoman to Lady Newport, married at High Ercall in 1613 to Rev. Francis Garbet, and buried at Neen in 1614, leaving an infant son George, who was buried in 1617 at Wroxeter, where his father was
Thompson of Sherehouse were baptized at Burford from 1610. She was buried there in 1650.(iv) Frances, bapt. at Neen in 1577, married there in 1598 to Rev. William Berkeley, Rector of Clungunford, where she was buried in 1650.
(v) Catharine, bapt. at Neen in 1579, married there in 1610 to James Wrottesley, who was assessed to Subsidy for lands in Detton in 1628.
(vi) Elizabeth, bapt. at Neen in 1581.
(vii) Beatrice, bapt. at Neen in 1584, married there in 1608 to Richard Thompson. I think this is a mistake for _John_ Thompson, for George, son of John "Tumpsone," was baptized at Neen the following year, and the children of John and Beatrice
the probable mother of Judith Warde, wife of Edward Warde. Remember that Elizabeth was sometimes interchangeable with Isabel at this time.(viii) Ann, baptized at Neen in 1589, wife of Richard Griffiths.
END of QUOTE.
-------------
See ...
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=inu.30000116575667&view=1up&seq=320&q1=%22thomas%20of%20teyhall%22
Ernest Flagg's book mentions the error of Beatrice's groom's first name being recorded as "Richard" rather than "John." It also uses a modified spelling of his surname, Thomson or even Tomson, I believe.
William Mytton's identification of the parentage of Ann Detton as "William Walter of Kerrickhowell, Co. Brecon ... [and] Elizabeth Denton of Co. Oxon" is very helpful, as those were definitely also the parents of Thomasine ([ap] Walter) Lukyn,
Portland ...The will of Beatrice Detton's husband is this one (apparently unknown to Flagg); it mentions the couple's brother-in-law George Detton.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D887583Link to a PDF of Matthew Hovious's article on Edward Warde and his wife Judith (unsure if this is on the right side of copyright law, but whatever) ... The ap Walter Thomas apparent connection is discussed at the end.
http://www.livhelenewillumsen.no/res/The%20Genealogist_article.pdf
The only other thing I've found in the intervening years is that one of John and Beatrice (Detton) Thomson's sons was an Oxford student ...
T(h)omson, John, s. John of Burford, Salop, pleb. BALLIOL COLL., matric. 15 June 1632, aged 16. B.A. 2 Nov., 1634, M.A. 19 Oct., 1637.
https://www.google.com/books/edition/Alumni_Oxonienses_S_Z/JRIBAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=tompson+burford&pg=PA1476&printsec=frontcover
"Tye Hall is a manor formerly in a branch of the great family of Heveningham , of Suffolk . ... From the Heveninghams it went , by marriage , to the family of Thomas , from whom it passed to that of Walter, to Sir Jerome Weston, to the Earls ofhttps://www.google.com/books/edition/Genealogical_Gleanings_in_England/caNCAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=%22matthew+poole%22+beatrice&pg=PA1061&printsec=frontcoverI think I found that the age matched with his baptismal record around 1616.Sorry, PDF only has the first page of the article.
https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_history_and_topography_of_Essex/SgQVAAAAQAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=walter+of+tyehall&pg=PA181&printsec=frontcover
William [ap] Walter, father of these ladies, was the son of Walter ap Thomas by Thomasina Henningham or Heveningham. Walter ap Thomas's will of ca. 1540 requested burial at Croghowell or Crickhowell in Wales.
During the last several months, there have been
various posts regarding the marriage between Alice de
Brewes/Baose (and other various spellings of which
have been well documented) and Ralph St. Owen.
The interest in this marriage - for at least myself
and Mr. Davis - is in regards to the ancestry of
Beatrice Detton (Dodington) of Shropshire. Beatrice
is known to have married John Thompson of Sherehouse,
Burford Parish, Shropshire. Thomas Thompson, son of
Beatrice and John, married Ann Welles, daughter of
Governor Thomas Welles of Connecticut. These claims
are supposedly well documented and accepted in several
sources.
For our interest, below is a draft pedigree of
Beatrice through the Broughtons, Havens, St. Owen,
Tirrell, and Downton families of Salop and
Herefordshire. The information has been gathered from
the Visitations of Shropshire and Herefordshire,
Flagg’s Genealogical Notes, and publications of the
Welles Family Association. Other sources are
identified within:
1. Beatrice Detton (Dodington)baptized 21 Jun 1584.
Married John Thompson, 12 Apr 1608. Neen Savage
Shropshire.
2. George Detton (Dodington) born about 1552. Married
about 1575 Anne, daughter off Walter ap Thomas.
3. Robert Dodington born about 1525. Married bout
1548, Mary Kettleby, daughter of Thomas and Elizabeth
(Romney) Kettleby of Stepple. Stepple acquired by
marriage with St. George family.
4. John Dodington, born 1490-95. Married about 1520
Anna Broughton, daughter of Walter and Jane (Haven)
Broughton of Broughton and Henley, Salop.
5. Walter Broughton and Jane Haven (Hevin) 12 E. 4.
Jane listed as coheir of John Hevin of Heuin,
Herefordshire.
6. John Broughton and Matilda or Isabell – daughter
and heir of John Collyns (Colling) otherwise called
John Brocton
7. Thomas Broughton and Jocosa, daughter of Hugh
Sandford. Hugh Sandford listed as “Hugonis Sandford
militis” in the Visitations of Shropshire. Possibly
same person as Hugh Sandford in the pedigree of
Sandford Up Rossall in the same Visitation.
6. John Hevin of Clybery in Salop and Hevyn (now Haven
)in parish of Dilwyen in Herefordshire, and Isabell
Downton.
“Hevin belonged at an early date to a family of that
name which remained in Dilweyn till the close of the
16th century, although the eldest branch had
terminated long before in three coheirs – Margaret
wife off William Hopton; Ann, wife of Hugh Shirley;
and Jane, wife of Walter Broughton. (Vist.
Herefordshire - Hopton Pedigree footnote & Vist.
Shropshire)”.
7. Thomas Downtown and Margarett, daughter of Richard
Lingen of Lingen in co. Hereff.
8. Roger Downton5 (John4, Thomas3, Roger2, and
Thomas1) and Jane (Joane) 4 H. 4.– sister and heir to
Thomas St. Owen.
The Visitation of Herefordshire shows that Jane
(Joane) was the granddaughter of #9 below and daughter
of John St. Owen and Elizabeth, daughter of Barkley.
In one pedigree of St. Owen in the Visitation of
Shropshire, Jane (Joane) is shown as the daughter of
#9. Both Vistations give the same regnal years for
Jane (Joane).
Paul Davis has posted some variations and additional
information regarding the Downtown/St. Owen
relationship.
9. John St. Owen and Jane Tirrell (Tyrrell), daughter
and heir of Sir Hugh Tirrell6(Hugh5, Roger4, Gilbert3,
Raph2, Randall1), Lord of Bromscroste in co. Salop and
Tirrell’s Court in co. Hd.
Contributed by Wendy Angove:
Robinson's Mansions and Manors of Herefordshire under
Eardisland I:
'Burton Court was the seat of the St Owen family for
several generations. John St Owen (son and heir of Sir
Ralph) married the heiress of Hugh Tyrell, and upon
the death of his grandsons s.p. (without issue) Thomas
St Owen c.1403 and Patrick, ante 1422, the estate
devolved to their sister Margaret, wife of Thomas
Downton'.
Robinson's Mansions and Manors of Herefordshire
'Tyrell's Court belonged to a family of that name for
several generations. The heiress, Joanna, daughter of
Sir Hugh Tyrrell,(footnote, Hugh Tyrrell had a grant
of free warren at Solers Dilwyn 8 Edward III) Hugh
being 6th in descent from Sir Randall Tyrrell, married
John St Owen in the reign of Edward III'.
In a book about houses of Herefordshire by Mary
Andere:
' the first Lord of Brinsop..was Ralph Torell or
Tirrell in 1210.'
Dunscumb gives Sir Roger Tyrrell in the same list as
Sir John St Owen - knights who served in the wars of
Edward 1.
10. Sir Ralph (Raph, Raufe) St. Owen of Gerneston and
Burton in co. Hd. and Alice, dauther and heir (coheir
in Visitation of Herefordshire) of Pierre Bruse
(Brewes) de Hochampe. Other daughters of Pierre de
Bruse are Maude, wife of John de Vaulx; and Elizabeth
wife off William Molineux (Visitation of Shropshire).
Visitation of Herefordshire states that Alice (wife of
Ralph St. Owen, was daughter and coheir of Sr. Peeter
vel Peeers de Bruse of co. Glos. 4 E. 3, 16 E. 3, 50
E. 3. No ancestry listed for Peeter vel Peers in the
Vist. of Hereff.
Visitation of Shropshire lists ancestry of Peter4
Bruse as William3, Piers2, William1 Lord Bruse of
Gower.
David Knill has also posted another origin for Alice
and Pier (Peter) as shown in another source.
11. Raph (Raufe) St. Owen and Julian 19 E. 2.
12. John St. Owen and Margarett, Lade of Whitchurch.
Dunscumb’s History of Herefordshire in Volume 1
names Sir John de St Owen as a knight who served in
the wars of Edward 1st and also gives the coat of arms
he bore. - 'de Gules a un crois de Argent en l'un
quarter un escuchon de Gloucester.'
13. Raph (Raufe) St. Owen and Maude, daughter and
coheir of Sir John Oteby (Oreby according to
Visitation of Shropshire)
14. Sir Robert St. Owen.
15. Sir Raufe St. Owen.
Visitation of Herefordshire gives the following arms
for St. Owen:
Downton: Two organ pipes between nine cross
crosslets.
St. Owen: Varry of six (Or. And Gu.)
Oteby: Vt. A fess Ar. in a chief Gu. a chevron Ar.
Brewes: Az. A lion ramp. betw. ten cross crosslets
Or. Crowned Gu.
Tirrell: Az. a lion ramp. Ar. a border engr. Or.
Please review, comment, and add insight.
Sincerely,
Minnman
RIP
__________________________________________________
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On Saturday, March 30, 2002 at 5:53:13 PM UTC-5, minnma...@yahoo.com wrote:Shropshire to Massachusetts, New York, Maryland, and Virginia. Specifically, the Dodington pedigree on p.165-6 of Part I (1889) says that "Johannes Dodington" and "Anna filia Walteri Broughton de Henley" had among others "Alice uxor Wm Holland." The
During the last several months, there have been
various posts regarding the marriage between Alice de
Brewes/Baose (and other various spellings of which
have been well documented) and Ralph St. Owen.
The interest in this marriage - for at least myself
and Mr. Davis - is in regards to the ancestry of
Beatrice Detton (Dodington) of Shropshire. Beatrice
is known to have married John Thompson of Sherehouse,
Burford Parish, Shropshire. Thomas Thompson, son of
Beatrice and John, married Ann Welles, daughter of
Governor Thomas Welles of Connecticut. These claims
are supposedly well documented and accepted in several
sources.
For our interest, below is a draft pedigree of
Beatrice through the Broughtons, Havens, St. Owen,
Tirrell, and Downton families of Salop and
Herefordshire. The information has been gathered from
the Visitations of Shropshire and Herefordshire,
Flagg’s Genealogical Notes, and publications of the
Welles Family Association. Other sources are
identified within:
1. Beatrice Detton (Dodington)baptized 21 Jun 1584.
Married John Thompson, 12 Apr 1608. Neen Savage
Shropshire.
2. George Detton (Dodington) born about 1552. Married
about 1575 Anne, daughter off Walter ap Thomas.
3. Robert Dodington born about 1525. Married bout
1548, Mary Kettleby, daughter of Thomas and Elizabeth
(Romney) Kettleby of Stepple. Stepple acquired by
marriage with St. George family.
4. John Dodington, born 1490-95. Married about 1520
Anna Broughton, daughter of Walter and Jane (Haven)
Broughton of Broughton and Henley, Salop.
5. Walter Broughton and Jane Haven (Hevin) 12 E. 4.
Jane listed as coheir of John Hevin of Heuin,
Herefordshire.
6. John Broughton and Matilda or Isabell – daughter
and heir of John Collyns (Colling) otherwise called
John Brocton
7. Thomas Broughton and Jocosa, daughter of Hugh
Sandford. Hugh Sandford listed as “Hugonis Sandford
militis” in the Visitations of Shropshire. Possibly
same person as Hugh Sandford in the pedigree of
Sandford Up Rossall in the same Visitation.
6. John Hevin of Clybery in Salop and Hevyn (now Haven
)in parish of Dilwyen in Herefordshire, and Isabell
Downton.
“Hevin belonged at an early date to a family of that
name which remained in Dilweyn till the close of the
16th century, although the eldest branch had
terminated long before in three coheirs – Margaret
wife off William Hopton; Ann, wife of Hugh Shirley;
and Jane, wife of Walter Broughton. (Vist.
Herefordshire - Hopton Pedigree footnote & Vist.
Shropshire)”.
7. Thomas Downtown and Margarett, daughter of Richard
Lingen of Lingen in co. Hereff.
8. Roger Downton5 (John4, Thomas3, Roger2, and
Thomas1) and Jane (Joane) 4 H. 4.– sister and heir to
Thomas St. Owen.
The Visitation of Herefordshire shows that Jane
(Joane) was the granddaughter of #9 below and daughter
of John St. Owen and Elizabeth, daughter of Barkley.
In one pedigree of St. Owen in the Visitation of
Shropshire, Jane (Joane) is shown as the daughter of
#9. Both Vistations give the same regnal years for
Jane (Joane).
Paul Davis has posted some variations and additional
information regarding the Downtown/St. Owen
relationship.
9. John St. Owen and Jane Tirrell (Tyrrell), daughter
and heir of Sir Hugh Tirrell6(Hugh5, Roger4, Gilbert3,
Raph2, Randall1), Lord of Bromscroste in co. Salop and
Tirrell’s Court in co. Hd.
Contributed by Wendy Angove:
Robinson's Mansions and Manors of Herefordshire under
Eardisland I:
'Burton Court was the seat of the St Owen family for
several generations. John St Owen (son and heir of Sir
Ralph) married the heiress of Hugh Tyrell, and upon
the death of his grandsons s.p. (without issue) Thomas
St Owen c.1403 and Patrick, ante 1422, the estate
devolved to their sister Margaret, wife of Thomas
Downton'.
Robinson's Mansions and Manors of Herefordshire
'Tyrell's Court belonged to a family of that name for
several generations. The heiress, Joanna, daughter of
Sir Hugh Tyrrell,(footnote, Hugh Tyrrell had a grant
of free warren at Solers Dilwyn 8 Edward III) Hugh
being 6th in descent from Sir Randall Tyrrell, married
John St Owen in the reign of Edward III'.
In a book about houses of Herefordshire by Mary
Andere:
' the first Lord of Brinsop..was Ralph Torell or
Tirrell in 1210.'
Dunscumb gives Sir Roger Tyrrell in the same list as
Sir John St Owen - knights who served in the wars of
Edward 1.
10. Sir Ralph (Raph, Raufe) St. Owen of Gerneston and
Burton in co. Hd. and Alice, dauther and heir (coheir
in Visitation of Herefordshire) of Pierre Bruse
(Brewes) de Hochampe. Other daughters of Pierre de
Bruse are Maude, wife of John de Vaulx; and Elizabeth
wife off William Molineux (Visitation of Shropshire).
Visitation of Herefordshire states that Alice (wife of
Ralph St. Owen, was daughter and coheir of Sr. Peeter
vel Peeers de Bruse of co. Glos. 4 E. 3, 16 E. 3, 50
E. 3. No ancestry listed for Peeter vel Peers in the
Vist. of Hereff.
Visitation of Shropshire lists ancestry of Peter4
Bruse as William3, Piers2, William1 Lord Bruse of
Gower.
David Knill has also posted another origin for Alice
and Pier (Peter) as shown in another source.
11. Raph (Raufe) St. Owen and Julian 19 E. 2.
12. John St. Owen and Margarett, Lade of Whitchurch.
Dunscumb’s History of Herefordshire in Volume 1
names Sir John de St Owen as a knight who served in
the wars of Edward 1st and also gives the coat of arms
he bore. - 'de Gules a un crois de Argent en l'un
quarter un escuchon de Gloucester.'
13. Raph (Raufe) St. Owen and Maude, daughter and
coheir of Sir John Oteby (Oreby according to
Visitation of Shropshire)
14. Sir Robert St. Owen.
15. Sir Raufe St. Owen.
Visitation of Herefordshire gives the following arms
for St. Owen:
Downton: Two organ pipes between nine cross
crosslets.
St. Owen: Varry of six (Or. And Gu.)
Oteby: Vt. A fess Ar. in a chief Gu. a chevron Ar.
Brewes: Az. A lion ramp. betw. ten cross crosslets
Or. Crowned Gu.
Tirrell: Az. a lion ramp. Ar. a border engr. Or.
Please review, comment, and add insight.
Sincerely,
Minnman
RIP
__________________________________________________The Visitation of Shropshire, 1623, shows that John Dod[d]ington/Detton and Anna Broughton, and thus the St. Owen/Brewes(Braose) families, are ancestral to Anna (Holland) Doughty, the paternal grandmother of Rev. Francis Doughty, an immigrant from
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover http://greetings.yahoo.com/
-Elizabeth A
On Saturday, March 30, 2002 at 5:53:13 PM UTC-5, minnma...@yahoo.com wrote:Shropshire to Massachusetts, New York, Maryland, and Virginia. Specifically, the Dodington pedigree on p.165-6 of Part I (1889) says that "Johannes Dodington" and "Anna filia Walteri Broughton de Henley" had among others "Alice uxor Wm Holland." The
During the last several months, there have been
various posts regarding the marriage between Alice de
Brewes/Baose (and other various spellings of which
have been well documented) and Ralph St. Owen.
The interest in this marriage - for at least myself
and Mr. Davis - is in regards to the ancestry of
Beatrice Detton (Dodington) of Shropshire. Beatrice
is known to have married John Thompson of Sherehouse,
Burford Parish, Shropshire. Thomas Thompson, son of
Beatrice and John, married Ann Welles, daughter of
Governor Thomas Welles of Connecticut. These claims
are supposedly well documented and accepted in several
sources.
For our interest, below is a draft pedigree of
Beatrice through the Broughtons, Havens, St. Owen,
Tirrell, and Downton families of Salop and
Herefordshire. The information has been gathered from
the Visitations of Shropshire and Herefordshire,
Flagg’s Genealogical Notes, and publications of the
Welles Family Association. Other sources are
identified within:
1. Beatrice Detton (Dodington)baptized 21 Jun 1584.
Married John Thompson, 12 Apr 1608. Neen Savage
Shropshire.
2. George Detton (Dodington) born about 1552. Married
about 1575 Anne, daughter off Walter ap Thomas.
3. Robert Dodington born about 1525. Married bout
1548, Mary Kettleby, daughter of Thomas and Elizabeth
(Romney) Kettleby of Stepple. Stepple acquired by
marriage with St. George family.
4. John Dodington, born 1490-95. Married about 1520
Anna Broughton, daughter of Walter and Jane (Haven)
Broughton of Broughton and Henley, Salop.
5. Walter Broughton and Jane Haven (Hevin) 12 E. 4.
Jane listed as coheir of John Hevin of Heuin,
Herefordshire.
6. John Broughton and Matilda or Isabell – daughter
and heir of John Collyns (Colling) otherwise called
John Brocton
7. Thomas Broughton and Jocosa, daughter of Hugh
Sandford. Hugh Sandford listed as “Hugonis Sandford
militis” in the Visitations of Shropshire. Possibly
same person as Hugh Sandford in the pedigree of
Sandford Up Rossall in the same Visitation.
6. John Hevin of Clybery in Salop and Hevyn (now Haven
)in parish of Dilwyen in Herefordshire, and Isabell
Downton.
“Hevin belonged at an early date to a family of that
name which remained in Dilweyn till the close of the
16th century, although the eldest branch had
terminated long before in three coheirs – Margaret
wife off William Hopton; Ann, wife of Hugh Shirley;
and Jane, wife of Walter Broughton. (Vist.
Herefordshire - Hopton Pedigree footnote & Vist.
Shropshire)”.
7. Thomas Downtown and Margarett, daughter of Richard
Lingen of Lingen in co. Hereff.
8. Roger Downton5 (John4, Thomas3, Roger2, and
Thomas1) and Jane (Joane) 4 H. 4.– sister and heir to
Thomas St. Owen.
The Visitation of Herefordshire shows that Jane
(Joane) was the granddaughter of #9 below and daughter
of John St. Owen and Elizabeth, daughter of Barkley.
In one pedigree of St. Owen in the Visitation of
Shropshire, Jane (Joane) is shown as the daughter of
#9. Both Vistations give the same regnal years for
Jane (Joane).
Paul Davis has posted some variations and additional
information regarding the Downtown/St. Owen
relationship.
9. John St. Owen and Jane Tirrell (Tyrrell), daughter
and heir of Sir Hugh Tirrell6(Hugh5, Roger4, Gilbert3,
Raph2, Randall1), Lord of Bromscroste in co. Salop and
Tirrell’s Court in co. Hd.
Contributed by Wendy Angove:
Robinson's Mansions and Manors of Herefordshire under
Eardisland I:
'Burton Court was the seat of the St Owen family for
several generations. John St Owen (son and heir of Sir
Ralph) married the heiress of Hugh Tyrell, and upon
the death of his grandsons s.p. (without issue) Thomas
St Owen c.1403 and Patrick, ante 1422, the estate
devolved to their sister Margaret, wife of Thomas
Downton'.
Robinson's Mansions and Manors of Herefordshire
'Tyrell's Court belonged to a family of that name for
several generations. The heiress, Joanna, daughter of
Sir Hugh Tyrrell,(footnote, Hugh Tyrrell had a grant
of free warren at Solers Dilwyn 8 Edward III) Hugh
being 6th in descent from Sir Randall Tyrrell, married
John St Owen in the reign of Edward III'.
In a book about houses of Herefordshire by Mary
Andere:
' the first Lord of Brinsop..was Ralph Torell or
Tirrell in 1210.'
Dunscumb gives Sir Roger Tyrrell in the same list as
Sir John St Owen - knights who served in the wars of
Edward 1.
10. Sir Ralph (Raph, Raufe) St. Owen of Gerneston and
Burton in co. Hd. and Alice, dauther and heir (coheir
in Visitation of Herefordshire) of Pierre Bruse
(Brewes) de Hochampe. Other daughters of Pierre de
Bruse are Maude, wife of John de Vaulx; and Elizabeth
wife off William Molineux (Visitation of Shropshire).
Visitation of Herefordshire states that Alice (wife of
Ralph St. Owen, was daughter and coheir of Sr. Peeter
vel Peeers de Bruse of co. Glos. 4 E. 3, 16 E. 3, 50
E. 3. No ancestry listed for Peeter vel Peers in the
Vist. of Hereff.
Visitation of Shropshire lists ancestry of Peter4
Bruse as William3, Piers2, William1 Lord Bruse of
Gower.
David Knill has also posted another origin for Alice
and Pier (Peter) as shown in another source.
11. Raph (Raufe) St. Owen and Julian 19 E. 2.
12. John St. Owen and Margarett, Lade of Whitchurch.
Dunscumb’s History of Herefordshire in Volume 1
names Sir John de St Owen as a knight who served in
the wars of Edward 1st and also gives the coat of arms
he bore. - 'de Gules a un crois de Argent en l'un
quarter un escuchon de Gloucester.'
13. Raph (Raufe) St. Owen and Maude, daughter and
coheir of Sir John Oteby (Oreby according to
Visitation of Shropshire)
14. Sir Robert St. Owen.
15. Sir Raufe St. Owen.
Visitation of Herefordshire gives the following arms
for St. Owen:
Downton: Two organ pipes between nine cross
crosslets.
St. Owen: Varry of six (Or. And Gu.)
Oteby: Vt. A fess Ar. in a chief Gu. a chevron Ar.
Brewes: Az. A lion ramp. betw. ten cross crosslets
Or. Crowned Gu.
Tirrell: Az. a lion ramp. Ar. a border engr. Or.
Please review, comment, and add insight.
Sincerely,
Minnman
RIP
__________________________________________________The Visitation of Shropshire, 1623, shows that John Dod[d]ington/Detton and Anna Broughton, and thus the St. Owen/Brewes(Braose) families, are ancestral to Anna (Holland) Doughty, the paternal grandmother of Rev. Francis Doughty, an immigrant from
Do You Yahoo!?
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-Elizabeth A
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