On Wednesday, 18 December 2002 at 11:16:38 UTC, Glyn Jones wrote:

J.E.Griffith gives only two children of Sir Owen Wynn - Richard and Sydney. Many have tried this route but found no other son, legitimate or illegitimate. Professor John Gwynfor Jones is a leading authority on the Wynns and the Welsh gentry and has found nothing. Since Wynn only means 'white', John Wynn could be unconnected to any Wynn family.
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----- Original Message -----
From: <DadG...@aol.com>
To: <GEN-MED...@rootsweb.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 6:54 PM
Subject: Re: WYNN/WINN "gateway" ancestry?
__________

Hi All I have seen you looking into Wynn/Winn Ancestry and thought I could help you a bit, neither John Winn of Westmorland nor Betsy Wynn are of the Gwydir Family, as for the former there is no link to Gwydir outside claims of American Genealogical
books of dubious origin, Betsy Wynn's ancestry goes back to a Shropshire based Wynn family not linked to the Gwydir Wynns, this being pulled together by shared personages of her own diaries and the Heraldic Visitations whether it was the London or
Shropshire escapes me. See here and here:

Wynn Mythtakes and Wynn Winners: https://web.archive.org/web/20161010142430/http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ttg13/mylespage2.html


Betsy Wynn Ancestry: https://gw.geneanet.org/fcicogna?lang=en&n=wynne&oc=3&p=richard

Sir Owen and Grace Wynn of Gwydir had only one child to survive infancy known as Sir Richard the 4th Baronet, who in turn had an only daughter Mary by his wife Sarah who succeeded to the Gwydir Estate upon his death in 1674 transferring it to her
descendants by her husband Robert Bertie Earl of Lindsey. However, I am researching the Wynn's of Gwydir myself due to an old familial rumour that goes as far back as my 5th Great Grandfather Thomas Wynn a shoe maker of Stafford, that we are related to
them. I have researched the lines of the Gwydir Baronets, the Wynn of Gwydir cadet branches at Branas and Garthgynan; Maesmochnant and Shrewsbury; Ystrad, Nantymerchied and Llwyn, Plas Mawr, Berth Ddu and Bodysgallen, Cae Milwr, Gesail Gyfarch etc.,
none of these have surviving male line issue legitimately. I say legitimately as I have recently come across some Letters in the Gwydir Papers indicating Sir Richard the 4th Baronet likely had two illegitimate sons named John Wynn. The First seems to
have been born c.1658 and died 1667, whilst the younger was born in 1667 and has no apparent death date. The Burial date of the first John Wynn and the Baptism of the 2nd John Wynn were both found in the Llanrwst Parish Registers ascribed as sons of Sir
Richard Wynn Soldier and Baronet of Gwydir, the elder Sir Richard Wynn e.g. the 2nd Baronet died in 1649 so it can only refer to the 4th Baronet. Originally I thought it could have been a mistake of the First entry being given the wrong date of 1667
instead of 1668 as sometimes entries were entered wherever but when I found the letters their brief descriptions contained little excerpts. From Lord Edward Herbert Baron Cherbury to his brother-in-law Sir Richard Wynn of Gwydir "Congratulating him on
hopes of an heir" in one letter and "discussion of heirs" in the 2nd both dated to an uncertain date of 1657/1658 mostly attributed to 1658, Lady Mary Wynn Sir Richard's only child by his wife Sarah Wynn wasn't baptised till 1661 almost three years after
this and her birth year is always ascribed as such by historians. Thus as there are no condolences on the loss of an heir in miscarriage we can assume this is quite likely to be the first John Wynn. It is likely that if Sir Richard wasn't able to have a
legitimate Mary he would have made his natural son John Wynn his heir. but that John Wynn died in 1667 as such he was outlived by his half-sister Mary. the next letter was of Lady Sarah Wynn concerning rumours that she had given birth to a son dated to
the 24th Oct 1667 in which the rumours were denied that she and Sir Richard had a son together. the 2nd John Wynn was baptised on the 20th Oct 1667 four days prior, furthermore a letter from the child's namesake John Wynn of Melai congratulating Sir
Richard on the birth of his son dated to the 29th Oct 1667. This was missed by Professor John Gwynfor Jones who was the authority on the Wynn Family of Gwydir. As such we can confirm Sir Richard had a son John Wynn in 1667 not by his wife, and whose
death date is unknown and possibly lived and had a family afterwards but that he was not the John Winn of Westmorland and likely never left Wales or Britain.

The familial rumour has credence to it as a couple of my male line ancestors and even my grandad have been compared with the likes of Sir John Wynn 1st Baronet of Gwydir's etching and portrait and look similar to him, I have seen even more likeness with
the etching of Sir Owen Wynn as myself, grandad, 3rd Great Grandad and a late cousin so many times removed in the male line George Frederick Wynne of Plas Gwyn, Minera all have the large face, eye shape whilst my Dad, Grandad, 3rd Great Grandad and
George Frederick Wynne all have the Roman like nose, I got my potato nose as I call it from my Mum's grandad. Even the former owners of Gwydir prior to Judy Corbett and her husband were spooked by the similarity when my Grandad stood next to the portrait
of Sir John.

So hope this helps with tracking down your Wynn ancestors. I'm still hunting mine.

Regards,

Callum.

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