I have been studying the House of Wessex and are trying to find out if the dynasty continued beyond the 1120s with the death of Edgar Ætheling. There are quite a few people named ‘Ætheling’ in pipe rolls and other legal records long after Edgardied. With Ætheling meaning prince and was commonly used by Anglo-Saxon princes, it is possible that they could be descended from Edgar but they could have also been descended from the House of Godwin or the Knytlingas.
There are also multiple claims of parentage of Edgar, these beingwebsites based on poorly documented lines. Edgar did go to Italy, but around 15 years later in 1086.
1. Silvestro Ætheling, barone di Milacca di San Lorenzo (b. 1071. d. 1148), supposedly an illegitimate son fathered in Italy in 1071, though around this time Edgar was occupied in Britain, the main source for this claim are dodgy Maltese genealogy
2. Matilda (d. 1146/47), wife of Guiges III, Count of Albon, she is referred to as the ‘Queen of England’ in chronicles, which has caused many to speculate that she was a daughter of Edgar, but now the common belief is that she was a daughter ofRoger I of Sicily with his second wife. I honestly don’t see the link between Sicily and England at that time except the fact that they were both ruled by Normans. Matilda wasn’t an Anglo-Saxon name, and rather a name more popular with the Normans,
3. Margaret, wife of Ralph Lovel II of Castle Carey and Thomas de Londres. The source for this claim is a Huntingdon Chronicle mentioned in the article ‘Companions of the Atheling’ by Geoffrey Barlow, which states that Margaret was the daughter ofEdgar.
Did he have any children? This question has been asked a couple of times here
but with no straight answer.
On Thursday, 11 March 2021 at 19:15:31 UTC, Max Stenner wrote:died. With Ætheling meaning prince and was commonly used by Anglo-Saxon princes, it is possible that they could be descended from Edgar but they could have also been descended from the House of Godwin or the Knytlingas.
I have been studying the House of Wessex and are trying to find out if the dynasty continued beyond the 1120s with the death of Edgar Ætheling. There are quite a few people named ‘Ætheling’ in pipe rolls and other legal records long after Edgar
websites based on poorly documented lines. Edgar did go to Italy, but around 15 years later in 1086.There are also multiple claims of parentage of Edgar, these being
1. Silvestro Ætheling, barone di Milacca di San Lorenzo (b. 1071. d. 1148), supposedly an illegitimate son fathered in Italy in 1071, though around this time Edgar was occupied in Britain, the main source for this claim are dodgy Maltese genealogy
Roger I of Sicily with his second wife. I honestly don’t see the link between Sicily and England at that time except the fact that they were both ruled by Normans. Matilda wasn’t an Anglo-Saxon name, and rather a name more popular with the Normans,2. Matilda (d. 1146/47), wife of Guiges III, Count of Albon, she is referred to as the ‘Queen of England’ in chronicles, which has caused many to speculate that she was a daughter of Edgar, but now the common belief is that she was a daughter of
of Edgar.3. Margaret, wife of Ralph Lovel II of Castle Carey and Thomas de Londres. The source for this claim is a Huntingdon Chronicle mentioned in the article ‘Companions of the Atheling’ by Geoffrey Barlow, which states that Margaret was the daughter
Did he have any children? This question has been asked a couple of times here
but with no straight answer.
Hi Max,Dear Paul, that Find a Grave entry is worthless as we don't have the slightest ides of where Cerdic is buried.
I'm a freelance journalist who is writing a book about Cerdic of Wessex. I wanted to ask you about this entry on Find My Grave.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/194208824/cerdic-cerdicing#source
Could you drop me an email if possible. Many thanks,
Paul
A terça-feira, 21 de junho de 2022 à(s) 19:55:35 UTC+1, Paul Harper escreveu:Edgar died. With Ætheling meaning prince and was commonly used by Anglo-Saxon princes, it is possible that they could be descended from Edgar but they could have also been descended from the House of Godwin or the Knytlingas.
On Thursday, 11 March 2021 at 19:15:31 UTC, Max Stenner wrote:
I have been studying the House of Wessex and are trying to find out if the dynasty continued beyond the 1120s with the death of Edgar Ætheling. There are quite a few people named ‘Ætheling’ in pipe rolls and other legal records long after
websites based on poorly documented lines. Edgar did go to Italy, but around 15 years later in 1086.There are also multiple claims of parentage of Edgar, these being
1. Silvestro Ætheling, barone di Milacca di San Lorenzo (b. 1071. d. 1148), supposedly an illegitimate son fathered in Italy in 1071, though around this time Edgar was occupied in Britain, the main source for this claim are dodgy Maltese genealogy
of Roger I of Sicily with his second wife. I honestly don’t see the link between Sicily and England at that time except the fact that they were both ruled by Normans. Matilda wasn’t an Anglo-Saxon name, and rather a name more popular with the Normans,2. Matilda (d. 1146/47), wife of Guiges III, Count of Albon, she is referred to as the ‘Queen of England’ in chronicles, which has caused many to speculate that she was a daughter of Edgar, but now the common belief is that she was a daughter
of Edgar.3. Margaret, wife of Ralph Lovel II of Castle Carey and Thomas de Londres. The source for this claim is a Huntingdon Chronicle mentioned in the article ‘Companions of the Atheling’ by Geoffrey Barlow, which states that Margaret was the daughter
Did he have any children? This question has been asked a couple of times here
but with no straight answer.
Hi Max,
I'm a freelance journalist who is writing a book about Cerdic of Wessex. I wanted to ask you about this entry on Find My Grave.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/194208824/cerdic-cerdicing#source
Could you drop me an email if possible. Many thanks,Dear Paul, that Find a Grave entry is worthless as we don't have the slightest ides of where Cerdic is buried.
Paul
On Wednesday, June 22, 2022 at 12:06:04 AM UTC+1, Paulo Ricardo Canedo wrote:Edgar died. With Ætheling meaning prince and was commonly used by Anglo-Saxon princes, it is possible that they could be descended from Edgar but they could have also been descended from the House of Godwin or the Knytlingas.
A terça-feira, 21 de junho de 2022 à(s) 19:55:35 UTC+1, Paul Harper escreveu:
On Thursday, 11 March 2021 at 19:15:31 UTC, Max Stenner wrote:
I have been studying the House of Wessex and are trying to find out if the dynasty continued beyond the 1120s with the death of Edgar Ætheling. There are quite a few people named ‘Ætheling’ in pipe rolls and other legal records long after
genealogy websites based on poorly documented lines. Edgar did go to Italy, but around 15 years later in 1086.There are also multiple claims of parentage of Edgar, these being
1. Silvestro Ætheling, barone di Milacca di San Lorenzo (b. 1071. d. 1148), supposedly an illegitimate son fathered in Italy in 1071, though around this time Edgar was occupied in Britain, the main source for this claim are dodgy Maltese
of Roger I of Sicily with his second wife. I honestly don’t see the link between Sicily and England at that time except the fact that they were both ruled by Normans. Matilda wasn’t an Anglo-Saxon name, and rather a name more popular with the Normans,2. Matilda (d. 1146/47), wife of Guiges III, Count of Albon, she is referred to as the ‘Queen of England’ in chronicles, which has caused many to speculate that she was a daughter of Edgar, but now the common belief is that she was a daughter
daughter of Edgar.3. Margaret, wife of Ralph Lovel II of Castle Carey and Thomas de Londres. The source for this claim is a Huntingdon Chronicle mentioned in the article ‘Companions of the Atheling’ by Geoffrey Barlow, which states that Margaret was the
Did he have any children? This question has been asked a couple of times here
but with no straight answer.
Yes you are correct and I have investigated the Cerdicesbeorg from the Sawyer charter extensively and looked at the writings of Barbara Yorke. The Find My Grave site gave a different location so I wanted to establish where it came from. Thanks,Hi Max,
I'm a freelance journalist who is writing a book about Cerdic of Wessex. I wanted to ask you about this entry on Find My Grave.
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/194208824/cerdic-cerdicing#source
I believe Cerdicesbeorg is a place name in a 10th century charter located near Hurstbourne in the Test valley,Could you drop me an email if possible. Many thanks,Dear Paul, that Find a Grave entry is worthless as we don't have the slightest ides of where Cerdic is buried.
Paul
so that part is true. I think its in Sawyers collection of AS charters no359. I havnt looked at this, so I dont
know if he was the one who made the suggestion that it was where Cerdic might have been buried. But if
you're writing a book on Cerdic, I suggest looking at the writings of Barbara Yorke on the subject rather
than FindaGrave.
Mike
Yes you are correct and I have investigated the Cerdicesbeorg from the Sawyer charter extensively and looked at the writings of Barbara Yorke. The Find My Grave site gave a different location so I wanted to establish where it came from.
Find A Grave is a useful site for getting photographic copies of gravestones, and useful additional data is occasionally added (such as copies of newspaper obituaries). When you find something at Find A Grave that is different from what the site wasdesigned for, such as an alleged genealogy of the individual written by an amateur using who knows what sources, then the chances of finding something of value are pretty bad. This is especially true for early medieval individuals, as few competent
On Thursday, June 23, 2022 at 7:15:19 AM UTC-7, Stewart Baldwin wrote:designed for, such as an alleged genealogy of the individual written by an amateur using who knows what sources, then the chances of finding something of value are pretty bad. This is especially true for early medieval individuals, as few competent
Find A Grave is a useful site for getting photographic copies of gravestones, and useful additional data is occasionally added (such as copies of newspaper obituaries). When you find something at Find A Grave that is different from what the site was
Unfortunately, Find A Grave lost its way. It originally existed to document tombstones, but then it devolved into just another internet genealogy site, with people creating profiles with made up burial information just because 'my ancestor deserves aprofile'. As SB says, FaG is useful for a tombstone photograph or transcript (actual verbatim transcript, not just a prose summary of the information) or attached primary records, and pretty much nothing else.
Regarding Cerdic, all of the sources have been known for more than a century, and while there may be new interpretations, there is no new information, such as a burial site (and if someone were to find a novel source, Find A Grave is unlikely to beamong the places they consider announcing their discovery). Someone has simply made this up, probably based on logic no more insightful than 'it must have been called Cerdicesbeorg because he was buried there'. IMO, it was probably called Cerdicesbeorg
On Thursday, June 23, 2022 at 5:49:35 AM UTC-5, Paul Harper wrote:designed for, such as an alleged genealogy of the individual written by an amateur using who knows what sources, then the chances of finding something of value are pretty bad. This is especially true for early medieval individuals, as few competent
Yes you are correct and I have investigated the Cerdicesbeorg from the Sawyer charter extensively and looked at the writings of Barbara Yorke. The Find My Grave site gave a different location so I wanted to establish where it came from.
Find A Grave is a useful site for getting photographic copies of gravestones, and useful additional data is occasionally added (such as copies of newspaper obituaries). When you find something at Find A Grave that is different from what the site was
Personally, I have my doubts that there is enough material out there to write an entire book about Cerdic without including some extremely questionable stuff, but high priority should be placed on David Dumville's articles on early West Saxon and Anglo-Saxon history, and Kenneth Sisam's early article on the fabrication of Cerdic's fictitious genealogy is a must read.
Was it Dumville, Sisam or someone else who suggested that some of the early kings of Wessex had
British names, Cerdic/ceretic, Caedwalla/Cadwallon?
On Thursday, June 23, 2022 at 11:31:29 AM UTC-7, mike davis wrote:a quick search turns up is a footnote to the preface for a work of fiction, Frank Cooper's Cædwalla, Or, The Saxons in the Isle of Wight: A Tale, 1868, p. vi. He speculates "Could Cædwalla really have been of British descent?" Again, this may not be
Was it Dumville, Sisam or someone else who suggested that some of the early kings of Wessex hadAs to the first of these, Francis Palgrave equated Cerdic with Ceredig or Caradoc in his 1832 work The Rise and Progress of the English Commonwealth: Anglo-Saxon Period, part 1, p. 399. He may not have been the first. For the second, the earliest that
British names, Cerdic/ceretic, Caedwalla/Cadwallon?
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