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  • oT: claims of Wernitz to have princely ancestry

    From M S@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jun 7 01:43:32 2022
    in the 1900s, Wernitz claims to have aristcratic grandmothers.

    a certain princess Alexandra Lvovna Galitzina, from Moscow, is claimed to be the mother of a Stefan Karl Wernitz (birth in Köszeg = Güns, Eisenberg, Hungary's Burgenland).

    https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00553598&tree=LEO

    a certain morganatically born baroness Yvonne Rennenberg, frm Rhineland, is claimed to be the mother of a Margaretha Gabriella Viktoria Udvar (birth 1909 in pecs (German: Fünfkirchen), s.Hungary).

    https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00383402&tree=LEO


    Has there been reliable research abut these births, parentages and claimed marriages?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From M S@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jun 7 20:45:23 2022
    an essay exists:

    Stair Sainty, Guy (2002)
    "Andreas Wernitz, the real story of his imposture as duke, prince, marquis, count, baron and grandee of Spain".
    Essay, chivalricorders


    ===================

    7. a 2022 klo 11.43.34 UTC+3 M S:
    in the 1900s, Wernitz claims to have aristcratic grandmothers.

    a certain princess Alexandra Lvovna Galitzina, from Moscow, is claimed to be the mother of a Stefan Karl Wernitz (birth in Köszeg = Güns, Eisenberg, Hungary's Burgenland).

    https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00553598&tree=LEO

    a certain morganatically born baroness Yvonne Rennenberg, frm Rhineland, is claimed to be the mother of a Margaretha Gabriella Viktoria Udvar (birth 1909 in pecs (German: Fünfkirchen), s.Hungary).

    https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00383402&tree=LEO


    Has there been reliable research abut these births, parentages and claimed marriages?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From M S@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jun 9 22:00:34 2022
    in the internet, there has been display of an odd genealogy:


    1.6 Princesse de Montléart-Sachsen-Kurland m 1832 Karl-Kurt-Maria, Herzog von Hornes (Duque de Hornes) 1810-1871
    1.6.1. Frédéric-Charles, Herzog von Hornes (Duque de Hornes) 1833-1902 &1856 Marie-Madeleine, Baronesse Petróczy de Petrócz 1835-1898
    1.6.1.1. Jean-Nepomussene, Herzog von Hornes (Duque de Hornes) 1857-1930 1.6.1.1.1. Josef (Pepi), Herzog von Hornes (Duque de Hornes) 1891-1974 &1929 Julia Varga, Edle Varga de Borosjenö 1909-1972
    1.6.1.1.2. Maria (Mici), Baronesse von Wernitz 1895-1981
    1.6.1.1.3. Eugen (Jenö), Herzog von Hornes (Duque de Hornes) 1899-1939 1.6.1.1.4. Therese (Riza), Baronesse von Wernitz 1902-1986
    1.6.1.1.5. Margarethe (Margit), Baronesse von Wernitz 1903-1951 &1929 Aloys Franz Uerményi, Edler Uerményi de Uermény 1899-1972
    1.6.1.1.5.1. Franz Johann Uerményi, Edler Uerményi de Uermény 1930-2003 &1955 Rosalie Kovács 1932-
    1.6.1.1.5.1.1. Johanna Uerményi, Edle Uerményi de Uermény 1956- &1980 Wilhelm von Rave 1952-
    1.6.1.1.5.1.1.1. Klaus von Rave 1983-
    1.6.1.1.5.1.1.2. Margarethe von Rave 1985-
    1.6.1.1.5.1.1.3. Sebastian von Rave 1988-
    1.6.1.1.6. Stephan Karl, Herzog von Hornes (Duque de Hornes) 1905-1981 &1937 Margarita zu Salm-Kyrburg, Princesse d'Hornes 1909-1995
    1.6.1.1.6.1. Esteban von Wernitz zu Salm-Kyrburg, Herzog von Hornes (Duque de Hornes) 1943-2006 &1977 Elisabeth Vergara-Acosta 1947-
    1.6.1.1.6.1.1. María Eugenia, Baronesa von Wernitz 1978-
    1.6.1.1.6.2. Andreas von Wernitz zu Salm-Kyrburg, Herzog von Hornes (Duque de Hornes) 1944- &1973 Elena Maria, Comtesse Teleki de Szék 1949-
    1.6.1.1.6.2.1. Andrés Carlos, Barón von Wernitz 1976-
    1.6.1.1.6.2.2. Elena Alejandra, Baronesse von Wernitz 1977- &2006 Sebastián Ojeda 1969-
    1.6.1.1.6.2.3. Gabriela Patricia, Baronesse von Wernitz 1981-
    1.6.1.2. Eduard Karl-Maria, Herzog von Hornes (Duque de Hornes) 1860-1919 1.6.1.3. Berta-Marie-Madeleine, Baronesse von Wernitz 1868-1900 &/1900 Albert, Prinz von Schleswig-Holstein-Sonderburg-Augustenburg 1869-1931
    1.6.1.3.1. Valerie zu Schleswig-Holstein 1900-1953 &1925 Johann Wagner 1896 &1939 Engelbert-Charles, Duc d'Arenberg 1899-1974


    seems that this genealogy is based on publications of Andreas Wernitz. ---------------------------------

    however, the above genealogy's Hornes titles are in direct conflict with the Andreas Wernitz claim of Yvonne Rennenberg having inherited the Hornes title.




    ===================

    7. a 2022 klo 11.43.34 UTC+3 M S:


    Has there been reliable research about these births, parentages and claimed marriages?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Steven Benedict@21:1/5 to M S on Fri Nov 18 13:30:54 2022
    On Tuesday, June 7, 2022 at 11:45:25 PM UTC-4, M S wrote:
    an essay exists:
    Stair Sainty, Guy (2002)
    "Andreas Wernitz, the real story of his imposture as duke, prince, marquis, count, baron and grandee of Spain".
    Essay, chivalricorders

    I understood from a mutual acquaintance that Mr. Sainty scrubbed the excellent essay from the web due to threats of legal action by the fraudster von Wernitz. In the fascinating essay of which I fortunately made a copy, Sainty exposed Wernitz as a
    Hungarian-born con-man András Petróczy. Wernitz did marry a genuine Hungarian countess, but his own claim to aristocratic forbears is entirely fabricated.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)