On 10-May-22 9:21 AM, joseph cook wrote:
On Monday, May 9, 2022 at 5:26:18 PM UTC-4, mlabe...@gmail.com wrote:
Hello -
If I do this wrong I am sorry this is literally my first post. I have searched through previous posts and gone through Richardson's sources for Peter de Brus and his wife Joan. All the sources that mentioned who Joan might be came up with a "we are
not sure if she is a de Lacy or de Grammaie."
I am really hoping that there has been further sources or information regarding Joan who married Peter de Brus II (b. after 1190 d. before 7 Sep 1247) and his wife Joan.
Any assistance would be fantastic. Below is the link of 2 of us trying to figure out who Joan's parents are.
Welcome!!
Rosie Bevan (a frequent contributor here) wrote the most recent analysis of this issue in 2013 (at least that I am aware of). It looks like the full article is available without a sign-in here:
https://www.academia.edu/4342598/Keeping_it_in_the_Family_Sex_Scandal_and_Rebellion_in_Baronial_Cleveland
It appears she identifies Joan's parentage with "virtual certainty".
But, as set out in Rosie Bevan's excellent article, Joan married Peter I
and was mother not wife of Peter II - see p. 13: "Having taken livery of
his estates in 1198, Peter would have been born around 1177. Assuming
Joan was of a similar age, chronologically she must be placed in the
family as daughter of John, Constable of Chester, who lived between
c.1150 and 1190, and his wife Alice, daughter of Roger fitz Richard,
Lord of Warkworth, by Alice de Vere. Joan, therefore, was a sister of
Roger de Lacy, who appears to have been born around 1170. However, the
estate in Knottingley could only have come to Peter and Joan after
Roger’s accession to the Honour of Pontefract in 1194, which probably
marks the date of their marriage and is consistent with the timing of
the birth of their son and heir, Peter II, who was born before 1201.
[note 40: The date is assumed by the fact that Peter II took seisin of
his estates immediately after his father’s death in 1222.]"
The wife of Peter II was Hawise de Lancaster.
Peter Stewart
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