On Sunday, March 7, 2021 at 4:24:24 PM UTC, Mary Morgan wrote:is there no mention of a daughter Isabel in Thomas Musgrave's 1533 IPM, it is chronologically impossible for Isabel, wife of John Musgrave of Catterlen, to have been a daughter of this couple. For she was still alive in 1641, and separated from her
On Saturday, March 6, 2021 at 5:58:58 PM UTC-5, Matthew Connolly wrote:
On Saturday, March 6, 2021 at 9:41:29 PM UTC, Mary Morgan wrote:
On Saturday, March 6, 2021 at 2:32:44 PM UTC-5, Brad Verity wrote:
On Friday, March 5, 2021 at 11:36:54 AM UTC-8, Mary Morgan wrote:
The Durham IPM cited above for Thomas Musgrave lists sons William, David, John, Thomas, and Leonard, daughter Elizabeth, and a child with which his wife is pregnant. I suspect the unborn child was Humphrey.I agree, Mary. The unborn child had to have been Humphrey Musgrave. Some pedigrees give Thomas Musgrave of Hayton (d. 1533) and Elizabeth Dacre an additional daughter, Isabel Musgrave, wife of John Musgrave of Catterlen (d. 1607). But not only
this John Musgrave, sometime deputy to [Scrope's] father, upon whom this John Musgrave did depend, served and thereby was trained up in service upon the Borders; he had always a disliking of Francis Dacre and were in displeasure until death of saidhttps://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Ancestor/BksWAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=John+Musgrave+of+Catterlen&pg=PA58&printsec=frontcover
20 Oct 1598 Scrope to Cecil- John Musgrave is not cousin german to Francis Dacre, but his grandmother was a base dau of the Lord Thos Dacre, grandfather of Francis Dacre; Umphrey Musgrave, a gent. of good estimation in our country, uncle to
of Thomas, 2nd Lord Dacre of Gilsland. In 1598, Elizabeth had grandchildren, possibly even a son, still living, so this evidence, though not contemporary to Elizabeth's lifetime, still has the authority of direct family knowledge.Thank you for sharing the above letter from Lord Scrope. It is strong - I would argue definitive - evidence that Elizabeth, wife of Thomas Musgrave of Hayton (d. 1533), was indeed the illegitimate (or "base," as Scrope describes her) daughter
shortly before his death" but in fact he was not just attainted but hanged for taking part in the robbery of the royal deputy receiver.Cheers, -----BradBrad,
Thanks for the link to the Ancestor article. I had not seen it, and it provides some names of children of John Musgrave (d. 1607) of Catterlen that I did not have. I notice the article says that he was "said to have been attainted for a felony
the time since her grandfather leaves her 500 pounds for her marriage.At least two of his children listed, Julian (bapt 1593) and William (bapt 1594) , were by his first wife Julian Musgrave. The only other bapt record I have is for Anne (bapt 1599), whose mother was Isabel.
Isabel Musgrave who married John Musgrave of Catterlen and John Vaux could very well have been the granddaughter Isabel mentioned in William Musgrave's 1595 Will. Her father was William's son Thomas who predeceased him. Isabel was not married at
and Vaux (I have a descent from the latter marriage), I’ll see if I can locate the references.MaryDo you happen to know anything about who this Thomas Musgrave (the predeceased son of William who d.1597) married, I don’t think I’ve ever seen her named? It was my understanding that his daughter Isabel was indeed the one who married Musgrave
Thanks Mary, she doesn’t seem to have left much trace - it may be that she died young, or (if she survived) remarried into another family, so was only briefly a Musgrave.-MatthewMatthew,
I have not found any reference to the wife of this Thomas Musgrave. I rechecked my copy of the Will of his father William Musgrave, but the Will does not mention Thomas's wife.
Mary
On Sunday, March 7, 2021 at 2:04:32 PM UTC-6, Matthew Connolly wrote:only is there no mention of a daughter Isabel in Thomas Musgrave's 1533 IPM, it is chronologically impossible for Isabel, wife of John Musgrave of Catterlen, to have been a daughter of this couple. For she was still alive in 1641, and separated from her
On Sunday, March 7, 2021 at 4:24:24 PM UTC, Mary Morgan wrote:
On Saturday, March 6, 2021 at 5:58:58 PM UTC-5, Matthew Connolly wrote:
On Saturday, March 6, 2021 at 9:41:29 PM UTC, Mary Morgan wrote:
On Saturday, March 6, 2021 at 2:32:44 PM UTC-5, Brad Verity wrote:
On Friday, March 5, 2021 at 11:36:54 AM UTC-8, Mary Morgan wrote:
The Durham IPM cited above for Thomas Musgrave lists sons William, David, John, Thomas, and Leonard, daughter Elizabeth, and a child with which his wife is pregnant. I suspect the unborn child was Humphrey.I agree, Mary. The unborn child had to have been Humphrey Musgrave. Some pedigrees give Thomas Musgrave of Hayton (d. 1533) and Elizabeth Dacre an additional daughter, Isabel Musgrave, wife of John Musgrave of Catterlen (d. 1607). But not
this John Musgrave, sometime deputy to [Scrope's] father, upon whom this John Musgrave did depend, served and thereby was trained up in service upon the Borders; he had always a disliking of Francis Dacre and were in displeasure until death of saidhttps://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Ancestor/BksWAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=John+Musgrave+of+Catterlen&pg=PA58&printsec=frontcover
20 Oct 1598 Scrope to Cecil- John Musgrave is not cousin german to Francis Dacre, but his grandmother was a base dau of the Lord Thos Dacre, grandfather of Francis Dacre; Umphrey Musgrave, a gent. of good estimation in our country, uncle to
of Thomas, 2nd Lord Dacre of Gilsland. In 1598, Elizabeth had grandchildren, possibly even a son, still living, so this evidence, though not contemporary to Elizabeth's lifetime, still has the authority of direct family knowledge.Thank you for sharing the above letter from Lord Scrope. It is strong - I would argue definitive - evidence that Elizabeth, wife of Thomas Musgrave of Hayton (d. 1533), was indeed the illegitimate (or "base," as Scrope describes her) daughter
shortly before his death" but in fact he was not just attainted but hanged for taking part in the robbery of the royal deputy receiver.Cheers, -----BradBrad,
Thanks for the link to the Ancestor article. I had not seen it, and it provides some names of children of John Musgrave (d. 1607) of Catterlen that I did not have. I notice the article says that he was "said to have been attainted for a felony
at the time since her grandfather leaves her 500 pounds for her marriage.At least two of his children listed, Julian (bapt 1593) and William (bapt 1594) , were by his first wife Julian Musgrave. The only other bapt record I have is for Anne (bapt 1599), whose mother was Isabel.
Isabel Musgrave who married John Musgrave of Catterlen and John Vaux could very well have been the granddaughter Isabel mentioned in William Musgrave's 1595 Will. Her father was William's son Thomas who predeceased him. Isabel was not married
Musgrave and Vaux (I have a descent from the latter marriage), I’ll see if I can locate the references.MaryDo you happen to know anything about who this Thomas Musgrave (the predeceased son of William who d.1597) married, I don’t think I’ve ever seen her named? It was my understanding that his daughter Isabel was indeed the one who married
Fetherston, were the parents of the Katherine Hutton who married George Thomason, the collector of the English Civil Wars-era tracts now in the British Library.Does anyone have any information on the Francis Hutton (circa 1578-1614), mentioned in the initial question? Francis Hutton was in the retinue of Count Gondomar and as mentioned Francis Hutton and his wife, Mary Fetherston, an aunt of the first baronetThanks Mary, she doesn’t seem to have left much trace - it may be that she died young, or (if she survived) remarried into another family, so was only briefly a Musgrave.-MatthewMatthew,
I have not found any reference to the wife of this Thomas Musgrave. I rechecked my copy of the Will of his father William Musgrave, but the Will does not mention Thomas's wife.
Mary
Thank you.
On Wednesday, September 22, 2021 at 3:04:01 PM UTC-7, Almitra Thomas wrote:only is there no mention of a daughter Isabel in Thomas Musgrave's 1533 IPM, it is chronologically impossible for Isabel, wife of John Musgrave of Catterlen, to have been a daughter of this couple. For she was still alive in 1641, and separated from her
On Sunday, March 7, 2021 at 2:04:32 PM UTC-6, Matthew Connolly wrote:
On Sunday, March 7, 2021 at 4:24:24 PM UTC, Mary Morgan wrote:
On Saturday, March 6, 2021 at 5:58:58 PM UTC-5, Matthew Connolly wrote:
On Saturday, March 6, 2021 at 9:41:29 PM UTC, Mary Morgan wrote:
On Saturday, March 6, 2021 at 2:32:44 PM UTC-5, Brad Verity wrote:
On Friday, March 5, 2021 at 11:36:54 AM UTC-8, Mary Morgan wrote:
The Durham IPM cited above for Thomas Musgrave lists sons William, David, John, Thomas, and Leonard, daughter Elizabeth, and a child with which his wife is pregnant. I suspect the unborn child was Humphrey.I agree, Mary. The unborn child had to have been Humphrey Musgrave. Some pedigrees give Thomas Musgrave of Hayton (d. 1533) and Elizabeth Dacre an additional daughter, Isabel Musgrave, wife of John Musgrave of Catterlen (d. 1607). But not
to this John Musgrave, sometime deputy to [Scrope's] father, upon whom this John Musgrave did depend, served and thereby was trained up in service upon the Borders; he had always a disliking of Francis Dacre and were in displeasure until death of saidhttps://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Ancestor/BksWAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=John+Musgrave+of+Catterlen&pg=PA58&printsec=frontcover
20 Oct 1598 Scrope to Cecil- John Musgrave is not cousin german to Francis Dacre, but his grandmother was a base dau of the Lord Thos Dacre, grandfather of Francis Dacre; Umphrey Musgrave, a gent. of good estimation in our country, uncle
daughter of Thomas, 2nd Lord Dacre of Gilsland. In 1598, Elizabeth had grandchildren, possibly even a son, still living, so this evidence, though not contemporary to Elizabeth's lifetime, still has the authority of direct family knowledge.Thank you for sharing the above letter from Lord Scrope. It is strong - I would argue definitive - evidence that Elizabeth, wife of Thomas Musgrave of Hayton (d. 1533), was indeed the illegitimate (or "base," as Scrope describes her)
felony shortly before his death" but in fact he was not just attainted but hanged for taking part in the robbery of the royal deputy receiver.Cheers, -----BradBrad,
Thanks for the link to the Ancestor article. I had not seen it, and it provides some names of children of John Musgrave (d. 1607) of Catterlen that I did not have. I notice the article says that he was "said to have been attainted for a
at the time since her grandfather leaves her 500 pounds for her marriage.At least two of his children listed, Julian (bapt 1593) and William (bapt 1594) , were by his first wife Julian Musgrave. The only other bapt record I have is for Anne (bapt 1599), whose mother was Isabel.
Isabel Musgrave who married John Musgrave of Catterlen and John Vaux could very well have been the granddaughter Isabel mentioned in William Musgrave's 1595 Will. Her father was William's son Thomas who predeceased him. Isabel was not married
Musgrave and Vaux (I have a descent from the latter marriage), I’ll see if I can locate the references.MaryDo you happen to know anything about who this Thomas Musgrave (the predeceased son of William who d.1597) married, I don’t think I’ve ever seen her named? It was my understanding that his daughter Isabel was indeed the one who married
baronet Fetherston, were the parents of the Katherine Hutton who married George Thomason, the collector of the English Civil Wars-era tracts now in the British Library.Does anyone have any information on the Francis Hutton (circa 1578-1614), mentioned in the initial question? Francis Hutton was in the retinue of Count Gondomar and as mentioned Francis Hutton and his wife, Mary Fetherston, an aunt of the firstThanks Mary, she doesn’t seem to have left much trace - it may be that she died young, or (if she survived) remarried into another family, so was only briefly a Musgrave.-MatthewMatthew,
I have not found any reference to the wife of this Thomas Musgrave. I rechecked my copy of the Will of his father William Musgrave, but the Will does not mention Thomas's wife.
Mary
I don't have a formal source; I found Ancestry trees online (which I know can be full of errors) and info from geni.comThank you.What is your source for this alleged birth year and death year?
On Thursday, September 23, 2021 at 2:49:05 PM UTC-5, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:only is there no mention of a daughter Isabel in Thomas Musgrave's 1533 IPM, it is chronologically impossible for Isabel, wife of John Musgrave of Catterlen, to have been a daughter of this couple. For she was still alive in 1641, and separated from her
On Wednesday, September 22, 2021 at 3:04:01 PM UTC-7, Almitra Thomas wrote:
On Sunday, March 7, 2021 at 2:04:32 PM UTC-6, Matthew Connolly wrote:
On Sunday, March 7, 2021 at 4:24:24 PM UTC, Mary Morgan wrote:
On Saturday, March 6, 2021 at 5:58:58 PM UTC-5, Matthew Connolly wrote:
On Saturday, March 6, 2021 at 9:41:29 PM UTC, Mary Morgan wrote:
On Saturday, March 6, 2021 at 2:32:44 PM UTC-5, Brad Verity wrote:
On Friday, March 5, 2021 at 11:36:54 AM UTC-8, Mary Morgan wrote:
The Durham IPM cited above for Thomas Musgrave lists sons William, David, John, Thomas, and Leonard, daughter Elizabeth, and a child with which his wife is pregnant. I suspect the unborn child was Humphrey.I agree, Mary. The unborn child had to have been Humphrey Musgrave. Some pedigrees give Thomas Musgrave of Hayton (d. 1533) and Elizabeth Dacre an additional daughter, Isabel Musgrave, wife of John Musgrave of Catterlen (d. 1607). But not
uncle to this John Musgrave, sometime deputy to [Scrope's] father, upon whom this John Musgrave did depend, served and thereby was trained up in service upon the Borders; he had always a disliking of Francis Dacre and were in displeasure until death ofhttps://www.google.com/books/edition/The_Ancestor/BksWAAAAYAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=John+Musgrave+of+Catterlen&pg=PA58&printsec=frontcover
20 Oct 1598 Scrope to Cecil- John Musgrave is not cousin german to Francis Dacre, but his grandmother was a base dau of the Lord Thos Dacre, grandfather of Francis Dacre; Umphrey Musgrave, a gent. of good estimation in our country,
daughter of Thomas, 2nd Lord Dacre of Gilsland. In 1598, Elizabeth had grandchildren, possibly even a son, still living, so this evidence, though not contemporary to Elizabeth's lifetime, still has the authority of direct family knowledge.Thank you for sharing the above letter from Lord Scrope. It is strong - I would argue definitive - evidence that Elizabeth, wife of Thomas Musgrave of Hayton (d. 1533), was indeed the illegitimate (or "base," as Scrope describes her)
felony shortly before his death" but in fact he was not just attainted but hanged for taking part in the robbery of the royal deputy receiver.Cheers, -----BradBrad,
Thanks for the link to the Ancestor article. I had not seen it, and it provides some names of children of John Musgrave (d. 1607) of Catterlen that I did not have. I notice the article says that he was "said to have been attainted for a
married at the time since her grandfather leaves her 500 pounds for her marriage.At least two of his children listed, Julian (bapt 1593) and William (bapt 1594) , were by his first wife Julian Musgrave. The only other bapt record I have is for Anne (bapt 1599), whose mother was Isabel.
Isabel Musgrave who married John Musgrave of Catterlen and John Vaux could very well have been the granddaughter Isabel mentioned in William Musgrave's 1595 Will. Her father was William's son Thomas who predeceased him. Isabel was not
Musgrave and Vaux (I have a descent from the latter marriage), I’ll see if I can locate the references.MaryDo you happen to know anything about who this Thomas Musgrave (the predeceased son of William who d.1597) married, I don’t think I’ve ever seen her named? It was my understanding that his daughter Isabel was indeed the one who married
baronet Fetherston, were the parents of the Katherine Hutton who married George Thomason, the collector of the English Civil Wars-era tracts now in the British Library.Does anyone have any information on the Francis Hutton (circa 1578-1614), mentioned in the initial question? Francis Hutton was in the retinue of Count Gondomar and as mentioned Francis Hutton and his wife, Mary Fetherston, an aunt of the firstThanks Mary, she doesn’t seem to have left much trace - it may be that she died young, or (if she survived) remarried into another family, so was only briefly a Musgrave.-MatthewMatthew,
I have not found any reference to the wife of this Thomas Musgrave. I rechecked my copy of the Will of his father William Musgrave, but the Will does not mention Thomas's wife.
Mary
I don't have a formal source; I found Ancestry trees online (which I know can be full of errors) and info from geni.comThank you.What is your source for this alleged birth year and death year?
So, I am not sure those dates are correct. Any insight would be appreciated.
Does anyone have any information on the Francis Hutton (circa 1578-1614), mentioned
in the initial question? Francis Hutton was in the retinue of Count Gondomar
Can anyone tell me whether Sir Richard Hutton of Goldsborough, Justice of the Common Pleas (1560-1639), who was descended from Edward III via Lionel of Antwerp, and his wife Agnes Briggs, were the parents of the Francis Hutton who was in the retinue ofCount Gondomar?
Francis Hutton and his wife, Mary Fetherston, an aunt of the first baronet Fetherston, were the parents of the Katherine Hutton who married George Thomason, the collector of the English Civil Wars-era tracts now in the British Library.
Thanks in advance.
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