Dear all,Thanks for this, Antoine.
Jaime de Salazar y Acha has published last December a monumental book on Spanish royal dynasties in the Middle Ages.
The book if freely downloadable at https://www.boe.es/biblioteca_juridica/publicacion.php?id=PUB-DH-2021-233
regards
antoine
Dear all,
Jaime de Salazar y Acha has published last December a monumental book on Spanish royal dynasties in the Middle Ages.
The book if freely downloadable at https://www.boe.es/biblioteca_juridica/publicacion.php?id=PUB-DH-2021-233
I will comment more if there is anything particularly noteworthy.
On Friday, April 29, 2022 at 4:20:31 AM UTC-7, antoin...@gmail.com wrote:example, he invents a wife for Ordono II in order to explain the name given his eldest son, Sancho,
Dear all,
Jaime de Salazar y Acha has published last December a monumental book on Spanish royal dynasties in the Middle Ages.
The book if freely downloadable at https://www.boe.es/biblioteca_juridica/publicacion.php?id=PUB-DH-2021-233
Thanks.
This started out well, basically taking no interest in the early mythological genealogy of Asturias, not even mentioning it, but unfortunately he can't restrain himself from reaching some dubious conclusions when it comes to his own pet theories. For
"Tuvo que casar Ordoño II por primera vez hacia 895 con una señora desconocida, hija de un Sancho, pues sólo así se explicaría el nombre dado a su primogénito, nombre desconocido en León hasta la fecha."case previously published) to account for a name that has a more likely (if less desirable) derivition.
Except Ordono's own mother, Jimena, was from Pamplona and probably (based on her most common placement) had a brother named Sancho. There is no need to invent a wife to explain this name. In at least one other case, he invents a relationship (in this
That said, in a later case one of his speculations matches something that I mooted here back in the early 1990s, that Cristina, mother-in-law of el Cid, was the Cristina Alfonso, granddaughter of infantes Ordono le Ciego and Cristina Vermudez.Dear Todd, thanks for this analysis. Would it be wrong to mention early Asturias genealogy simply to say it should not be trusted?
I will comment more if there is anything particularly noteworthy.
taf
This started out well, basically taking no interest in the early mythological genealogy of Asturias, not even mentioning it,
Dear Todd, thanks for this analysis. Would it be wrong to mention early Asturias genealogy simply to say it should not be trusted?
On Friday, April 29, 2022 at 6:12:05 PM UTC-7, Paulo Ricardo Canedo wrote:the 16th and 17th centuries that Iberian historians started to invent specific named lines of descent connecting to earlier kings. In a study that is supposedly based on what the primary sources say and the products of modern scholarship, and explicitly (
In a source like this, yes, it would be wrong. What is known about the founders from the authentic sources is that one was of royal blood, and the other was related to (that is what the source says, not desended from) two named kings. It was only inThis started out well, basically taking no interest in the early mythological genealogy of Asturias, not even mentioning it,Dear Todd, thanks for this analysis. Would it be wrong to mention early Asturias genealogy simply to say it should not be trusted?
tafWhat if instead of listing those pedigrees, you just noted at the beginning that the traditional ancestry of the founders of the Kingdom of the Asturias are not to be trusted?
What if instead of listing those pedigrees, you just noted at the beginning that the traditional ancestry of the founders of the Kingdom of the Asturias are not to be trusted?
I don't want to come across too critical. Overall it is a careful work, but just occasionally the author gets tripped up either by his own ingenuity or the respect he has for his esteemed predecessors.
On 01-May-22 6:04 AM, taf wrote:
"Se desconoce su matrimonio, aunque por el nombre de su hijo menor, pudo contraerlo con una hija de Centulio, conde de Gascuña" (We don't know of his marriage, but from the name of his son, he may have wed a daughter of Centullo, count of Gascony)
The word omitted from your translation, "menor", is another emblem of
unwarranted assumption from a genealogical point of view - there is no source cited for making Centulo into the younger son of his parents,
that presumably is an arbitrary choice by Salazar y Acha implicitly bolstering the notion that his given name may have come from his
maternal grandfather while his brother Galindo was obviously named after their paternal grandfather.
On Friday, April 29, 2022 at 11:27:45 AM UTC-7, taf wrote:
I don't want to come across too critical. Overall it is a careful work, but just occasionally the author gets tripped up either by his own ingenuity or the respect he has for his esteemed predecessors.
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