• June Throckmorton Tugwell

    From Paulo Ricardo Canedo@21:1/5 to All on Sat Apr 23 07:30:06 2022
    June Throckmorton Tugwell's profile at Wikitree https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Throckmorton-282 shows no parents. https://www.ancestry.com/genealogy/records/june-throckmorton-24-20yj3z2, however, shows her parents as Robert Throckmorton and Catherine
    Marrow. Is there any basis for this parentage? Also, is the descent to the Virginia immigrant Thomas Tugwell, https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Tugwell-7, correct?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Enno Borgsteede@21:1/5 to All on Sat Apr 23 17:46:01 2022
    Op 23-04-2022 om 16:30 schreef Paulo Ricardo Canedo:
    June Throckmorton Tugwell's profile at Wikitree https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Throckmorton-282 shows no parents. https://www.ancestry.com/genealogy/records/june-throckmorton-24-20yj3z2, however, shows her parents as Robert Throckmorton and Catherine
    Marrow. Is there any basis for this parentage? Also, is the descent to the Virginia immigrant Thomas Tugwell, https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Tugwell-7, correct?


    I find her given name, June, highly suspicious for that time. And for Jane, there is a burial record on Find-My-Past, but I have no subscription to check that.

    I also see no sources on FamilySearch, other than a reference to her profile on Ancestry.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Girl57@21:1/5 to enno...@gmail.com on Sat Apr 23 11:07:00 2022
    On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 11:46:07 AM UTC-4, enno...@gmail.com wrote:
    Op 23-04-2022 om 16:30 schreef Paulo Ricardo Canedo:
    June Throckmorton Tugwell's profile at Wikitree https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Throckmorton-282 shows no parents. https://www.ancestry.com/genealogy/records/june-throckmorton-24-20yj3z2, however, shows her parents as Robert Throckmorton and Catherine
    Marrow. Is there any basis for this parentage? Also, is the descent to the Virginia immigrant Thomas Tugwell, https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Tugwell-7, correct?

    I find her given name, June, highly suspicious for that time. And for Jane, there is a burial record on Find-My-Past, but I have no subscription to check that.

    I also see no sources on FamilySearch, other than a reference to her profile on Ancestry.
    I've done a little looking on FindMyPast but haven't come up with any death record yet for a June/Jane/Joan Tugwell in or just before or after 1552. Glad to check again for this or something else.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Girl57@21:1/5 to enno...@gmail.com on Sat Apr 23 10:51:35 2022
    On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 11:46:07 AM UTC-4, enno...@gmail.com wrote:
    Op 23-04-2022 om 16:30 schreef Paulo Ricardo Canedo:
    June Throckmorton Tugwell's profile at Wikitree https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Throckmorton-282 shows no parents. https://www.ancestry.com/genealogy/records/june-throckmorton-24-20yj3z2, however, shows her parents as Robert Throckmorton and Catherine
    Marrow. Is there any basis for this parentage? Also, is the descent to the Virginia immigrant Thomas Tugwell, https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Tugwell-7, correct?

    I find her given name, June, highly suspicious for that time. And for Jane, there is a burial record on Find-My-Past, but I have no subscription to check that.

    I also see no sources on FamilySearch, other than a reference to her profile on Ancestry.
    I have a FindMyPast subscription. Would you like me to check something?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Girl57@21:1/5 to enno...@gmail.com on Sat Apr 23 14:51:46 2022
    On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 5:28:10 PM UTC-4, enno...@gmail.com wrote:
    Op 23-04-2022 om 20:07 schreef Girl57:
    On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 11:46:07 AM UTC-4, enno...@gmail.com wrote:
    Op 23-04-2022 om 16:30 schreef Paulo Ricardo Canedo:
    June Throckmorton Tugwell's profile at Wikitree https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Throckmorton-282 shows no parents. https://www.ancestry.com/genealogy/records/june-throckmorton-24-20yj3z2, however, shows her parents as Robert Throckmorton and
    Catherine Marrow. Is there any basis for this parentage? Also, is the descent to the Virginia immigrant Thomas Tugwell, https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Tugwell-7, correct?

    I find her given name, June, highly suspicious for that time. And for Jane, there is a burial record on Find-My-Past, but I have no subscription to check that.

    I also see no sources on FamilySearch, other than a reference to her profile on Ancestry.
    I've done a little looking on FindMyPast but haven't come up with any death record yet for a June/Jane/Joan Tugwell in or just before or after 1552. Glad to check again for this or something else.

    Her birth name is Throckmorton, so if you can, please search for Jane Throckmorton, died about 1552.

    When I searched with my free account, using the dates from WikiTree, the only result was a burial record, from 1551, at St Margaret, Westminster, Middlesex, England. There were 3 other results for Jone.

    I set the checkmarks for name variants for First and Last name.
    Coming up with nothing, even with name variants ticked. I saw the entry that arose in your free account search, but there was no surname, just "Jone." Very few Throckmortons in time period I searched...Just two, one "Catherine" and the other "Katharine;"
    no Jane/Joan/June. I'd also had no luck, even using name variants and correct time period, with "Tugwell" or "Tuggle." I tried both Warwickshire and all England. I wonder where the dates from WikiTree, and death date from Ancestry/Find-a-Grave came from?
    Please let me know if further search would help.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Enno Borgsteede@21:1/5 to All on Sat Apr 23 23:28:00 2022
    Op 23-04-2022 om 20:07 schreef Girl57:
    On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 11:46:07 AM UTC-4, enno...@gmail.com wrote:
    Op 23-04-2022 om 16:30 schreef Paulo Ricardo Canedo:
    June Throckmorton Tugwell's profile at Wikitree https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Throckmorton-282 shows no parents. https://www.ancestry.com/genealogy/records/june-throckmorton-24-20yj3z2, however, shows her parents as Robert Throckmorton and Catherine
    Marrow. Is there any basis for this parentage? Also, is the descent to the Virginia immigrant Thomas Tugwell, https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Tugwell-7, correct?

    I find her given name, June, highly suspicious for that time. And for Jane, there is a burial record on Find-My-Past, but I have no subscription to check that.

    I also see no sources on FamilySearch, other than a reference to her profile on Ancestry.
    I've done a little looking on FindMyPast but haven't come up with any death record yet for a June/Jane/Joan Tugwell in or just before or after 1552. Glad to check again for this or something else.


    Her birth name is Throckmorton, so if you can, please search for Jane Throckmorton, died about 1552.

    When I searched with my free account, using the dates from WikiTree, the only result was a burial record, from 1551, at St Margaret, Westminster, Middlesex, England. There were 3 other results for Jone.

    I set the checkmarks for name variants for First and Last name.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Enno Borgsteede@21:1/5 to All on Sun Apr 24 00:21:15 2022
    Op 23-04-2022 om 23:51 schreef Girl57:

    Coming up with nothing, even with name variants ticked. I saw the entry that arose in your free account search, but there was no surname, just "Jone." Very few Throckmortons in time period I searched...Just two, one "Catherine" and the other "Katharine;
    " no Jane/Joan/June. I'd also had no luck, even using name variants and correct time period, with "Tugwell" or "Tuggle." I tried both Warwickshire and all England. I wonder where the dates from WikiTree, and death date from Ancestry/Find-a-Grave came
    from? Please let me know if further search would help.


    You're right. I didn't realize that it was an entry without a surname, but I can indeed see that with my free account.

    The Throckmorton family goes back quite far, but it's hard to find birth records before 1600.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to enno...@gmail.com on Mon May 16 13:55:57 2022
    On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 3:21:17 PM UTC-7, enno...@gmail.com wrote:
    Op 23-04-2022 om 23:51 schreef Girl57:
    Coming up with nothing, even with name variants ticked. I saw the entry that arose in your free account search, but there was no surname, just "Jone." Very few Throckmortons in time period I searched...Just two, one "Catherine" and the other "
    Katharine;" no Jane/Joan/June. I'd also had no luck, even using name variants and correct time period, with "Tugwell" or "Tuggle." I tried both Warwickshire and all England. I wonder where the dates from WikiTree, and death date from Ancestry/Find-a-
    Grave came from? Please let me know if further search would help.

    You're right. I didn't realize that it was an entry without a surname, but I can indeed see that with my free account.

    The Throckmorton family goes back quite far, but it's hard to find birth records before 1600.

    The sole source given for this entry is
    "Arik Russell, firsthand knowledge. "

    in other words, it is complete and useless trash and should be ignored with violence

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to pj.ev...@gmail.com on Mon May 16 14:05:27 2022
    On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 2:00:05 PM UTC-7, pj.ev...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 1:55:58 PM UTC-7, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 3:21:17 PM UTC-7, enno...@gmail.com wrote:
    Op 23-04-2022 om 23:51 schreef Girl57:
    Coming up with nothing, even with name variants ticked. I saw the entry that arose in your free account search, but there was no surname, just "Jone." Very few Throckmortons in time period I searched...Just two, one "Catherine" and the other "
    Katharine;" no Jane/Joan/June. I'd also had no luck, even using name variants and correct time period, with "Tugwell" or "Tuggle." I tried both Warwickshire and all England. I wonder where the dates from WikiTree, and death date from Ancestry/Find-a-
    Grave came from? Please let me know if further search would help.

    You're right. I didn't realize that it was an entry without a surname, but I can indeed see that with my free account.

    The Throckmorton family goes back quite far, but it's hard to find birth records before 1600.
    The sole source given for this entry is
    "Arik Russell, firsthand knowledge. "

    in other words, it is complete and useless trash and should be ignored with violence
    Or legitimate knowledge but with bad dates - it's easy to get 6 instead of 9.

    If it were legitimate knowledge and not complete twaddle, you don't think *anyone* in the history of the project would have posted any source? Added to that this woman's name cannot be found in any type of google books search at all.

    So this looks much more like a big mistake, not good research.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From pj.evans88@gmail.com@21:1/5 to wjhons...@gmail.com on Mon May 16 14:00:02 2022
    On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 1:55:58 PM UTC-7, wjhons...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 3:21:17 PM UTC-7, enno...@gmail.com wrote:
    Op 23-04-2022 om 23:51 schreef Girl57:
    Coming up with nothing, even with name variants ticked. I saw the entry that arose in your free account search, but there was no surname, just "Jone." Very few Throckmortons in time period I searched...Just two, one "Catherine" and the other "
    Katharine;" no Jane/Joan/June. I'd also had no luck, even using name variants and correct time period, with "Tugwell" or "Tuggle." I tried both Warwickshire and all England. I wonder where the dates from WikiTree, and death date from Ancestry/Find-a-
    Grave came from? Please let me know if further search would help.

    You're right. I didn't realize that it was an entry without a surname, but I can indeed see that with my free account.

    The Throckmorton family goes back quite far, but it's hard to find birth records before 1600.
    The sole source given for this entry is
    "Arik Russell, firsthand knowledge. "

    in other words, it is complete and useless trash and should be ignored with violence

    Or legitimate knowledge but with bad dates - it's easy to get 6 instead of 9.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to All on Mon May 16 14:13:49 2022
    Robert Throckmorton and Catherine Marrow are listed at thepeerage here

    http://www.thepeerage.com/p14658.htm#i146579

    He does at least cite ONE credible source (ignore the other twaddle)
    BP1970

    However there is no such daughter June, and I agree that this name is probably a mistake for Jane if this woman ever existed at all. He was not a low unknown person, he was a privy councillor, and his family has been poured over by dozens to hundreds of
    people since. You would think it should be *impossible* that there is a missing daughter here....

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paulo Ricardo Canedo@21:1/5 to All on Mon May 16 16:48:33 2022
    A segunda-feira, 16 de maio de 2022 à(s) 21:55:58 UTC+1, wjhons...@gmail.com escreveu:
    On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 3:21:17 PM UTC-7, enno...@gmail.com wrote:
    Op 23-04-2022 om 23:51 schreef Girl57:
    Coming up with nothing, even with name variants ticked. I saw the entry that arose in your free account search, but there was no surname, just "Jone." Very few Throckmortons in time period I searched...Just two, one "Catherine" and the other "
    Katharine;" no Jane/Joan/June. I'd also had no luck, even using name variants and correct time period, with "Tugwell" or "Tuggle." I tried both Warwickshire and all England. I wonder where the dates from WikiTree, and death date from Ancestry/Find-a-
    Grave came from? Please let me know if further search would help.

    You're right. I didn't realize that it was an entry without a surname, but I can indeed see that with my free account.

    The Throckmorton family goes back quite far, but it's hard to find birth records before 1600.
    The sole source given for this entry is
    "Arik Russell, firsthand knowledge. "

    in other words, it is complete and useless trash and should be ignored with violence
    The Wikitree profile does not actually show a parentage, though. Also, is "violence" a typo?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to All on Tue May 17 10:39:43 2022
    Having moved back one step to this supposed Captain Henry Matthews Tugwell (their supposed child) I am not even convinced that such a person every existed himself.

    The sources given are useless trash, and they just point to more useless trash. So this rabbit hole is much deeper than it should be.
    I suspect OneWorldTree created this years ago and no one has beaten it to death yet

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to Paulo Ricardo Canedo on Tue May 17 10:32:58 2022
    On Monday, May 16, 2022 at 4:48:35 PM UTC-7, Paulo Ricardo Canedo wrote:
    A segunda-feira, 16 de maio de 2022 à(s) 21:55:58 UTC+1, wjhons...@gmail.com escreveu:
    On Saturday, April 23, 2022 at 3:21:17 PM UTC-7, enno...@gmail.com wrote:
    Op 23-04-2022 om 23:51 schreef Girl57:
    Coming up with nothing, even with name variants ticked. I saw the entry that arose in your free account search, but there was no surname, just "Jone." Very few Throckmortons in time period I searched...Just two, one "Catherine" and the other "
    Katharine;" no Jane/Joan/June. I'd also had no luck, even using name variants and correct time period, with "Tugwell" or "Tuggle." I tried both Warwickshire and all England. I wonder where the dates from WikiTree, and death date from Ancestry/Find-a-
    Grave came from? Please let me know if further search would help.

    You're right. I didn't realize that it was an entry without a surname, but I can indeed see that with my free account.

    The Throckmorton family goes back quite far, but it's hard to find birth records before 1600.
    The sole source given for this entry is
    "Arik Russell, firsthand knowledge. "

    in other words, it is complete and useless trash and should be ignored with violence
    The Wikitree profile does not actually show a parentage, though. Also, is "violence" a typo?

    I'm trying to encourage the outright and forceful rejection of these sort of profile entries.
    They do not and can not help us push medieval genealogy forward
    It is solely by working on the predecessor entries, that we can determine where this particular miscreant invented mythical creatures and then stuck them into real persons

    So entries of this sort must be rejected with violence.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)