A short version of an early 16th-century marriage contract I'm looking at cites enfoeffment of several people who aren't the groom. I'd been thinking that a marriage contract was primarily an agreement between the groom/couple and the bride's father,re: lands that would come w/bride. What is the role of the enfoeffed men named? What do they get from whom, what is their range of probable relationships with the groom, what do they do...what is their interest in the deal? Thank you. Appreciate insight
On Thursday, 7 April 2022 at 14:29:04 UTC+1, Girl57 wrote:re: lands that would come w/bride. What is the role of the enfoeffed men named? What do they get from whom, what is their range of probable relationships with the groom, what do they do...what is their interest in the deal? Thank you. Appreciate insight
A short version of an early 16th-century marriage contract I'm looking at cites enfoeffment of several people who aren't the groom. I'd been thinking that a marriage contract was primarily an agreement between the groom/couple and the bride's father,
The University of Nottingham has some good web pages on things like this:Chris, you're the best. This is so helpful, and I see there are many more instructive pages at University of Nottingham.
https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/manuscriptsandspecialcollections/researchguidance/deedsindepth/freehold/feoffment.aspx
Chris
On Thursday, April 7, 2022 at 9:54:33 AM UTC-4, Chris Dickinson wrote:father, re: lands that would come w/bride. What is the role of the enfoeffed men named? What do they get from whom, what is their range of probable relationships with the groom, what do they do...what is their interest in the deal? Thank you. Appreciate
On Thursday, 7 April 2022 at 14:29:04 UTC+1, Girl57 wrote:
A short version of an early 16th-century marriage contract I'm looking at cites enfoeffment of several people who aren't the groom. I'd been thinking that a marriage contract was primarily an agreement between the groom/couple and the bride's
which man? Or, might there be separate documents ("deeds," as mentioned on the U of Notts page) pertaining to a transaction with each foeffee? (I'm trying to follow the chain of conveyance of specific lands among specific parties to support the supposedThe University of Nottingham has some good web pages on things like this:
https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/manuscriptsandspecialcollections/researchguidance/deedsindepth/freehold/feoffment.aspx
ChrisChris, you're the best. This is so helpful, and I see there are many more instructive pages at University of Nottingham.
Question: If the short form of the marriage contract I've seen cites the names of several foeffees, could the full version perhaps contain more detail, e.g., specifics of which lands in the generally-cited geographic areas were being granted/sold to
On Thursday, 7 April 2022 at 17:03:12 UTC+1, Girl57 wrote:father, re: lands that would come w/bride. What is the role of the enfoeffed men named? What do they get from whom, what is their range of probable relationships with the groom, what do they do...what is their interest in the deal? Thank you. Appreciate
On Thursday, April 7, 2022 at 9:54:33 AM UTC-4, Chris Dickinson wrote:
On Thursday, 7 April 2022 at 14:29:04 UTC+1, Girl57 wrote:
A short version of an early 16th-century marriage contract I'm looking at cites enfoeffment of several people who aren't the groom. I'd been thinking that a marriage contract was primarily an agreement between the groom/couple and the bride's
which man? Or, might there be separate documents ("deeds," as mentioned on the U of Notts page) pertaining to a transaction with each foeffee? (I'm trying to follow the chain of conveyance of specific lands among specific parties to support the supposedThe University of Nottingham has some good web pages on things like this:
https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/manuscriptsandspecialcollections/researchguidance/deedsindepth/freehold/feoffment.aspx
ChrisChris, you're the best. This is so helpful, and I see there are many more instructive pages at University of Nottingham.
Question: If the short form of the marriage contract I've seen cites the names of several foeffees, could the full version perhaps contain more detail, e.g., specifics of which lands in the generally-cited geographic areas were being granted/sold to
That I can't answer. Other members of this group will have a lot more experience here.Chris, will look at Feet of Fines. Meantime, the abbreviated contract material I have is here, below the pedigree:
Hmm, I'm wondering whether Feet of Fines may help here?
https://lawlibguides.usc.edu/c.php?g=777451&p=5611725%23%3a%7e%3atext%3dFeet+of+Fines+A+fine+was+a+final%2cinstrument+for+the+transfer+of+land+between+freeholders.&msclkid=b2e46ef0b69c11ecab3459f1755ae2fe
Otherwise, have you contacted the record office that provided the abstract? Their staff can be hugely helpful, especially if they'r straight from university and hungry for some resaerch action!!
Chris
On Thursday, April 7, 2022 at 2:06:04 PM UTC-4, Chris Dickinson wrote:father, re: lands that would come w/bride. What is the role of the enfoeffed men named? What do they get from whom, what is their range of probable relationships with the groom, what do they do...what is their interest in the deal? Thank you. Appreciate
On Thursday, 7 April 2022 at 17:03:12 UTC+1, Girl57 wrote:
On Thursday, April 7, 2022 at 9:54:33 AM UTC-4, Chris Dickinson wrote:
On Thursday, 7 April 2022 at 14:29:04 UTC+1, Girl57 wrote:
A short version of an early 16th-century marriage contract I'm looking at cites enfoeffment of several people who aren't the groom. I'd been thinking that a marriage contract was primarily an agreement between the groom/couple and the bride's
to which man? Or, might there be separate documents ("deeds," as mentioned on the U of Notts page) pertaining to a transaction with each foeffee? (I'm trying to follow the chain of conveyance of specific lands among specific parties to support theThe University of Nottingham has some good web pages on things like this:
https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/manuscriptsandspecialcollections/researchguidance/deedsindepth/freehold/feoffment.aspx
ChrisChris, you're the best. This is so helpful, and I see there are many more instructive pages at University of Nottingham.
Question: If the short form of the marriage contract I've seen cites the names of several foeffees, could the full version perhaps contain more detail, e.g., specifics of which lands in the generally-cited geographic areas were being granted/sold
created, addressing particulars of each foeffee's land/role, etc. I'm certain that professional genealogists have looked at all this re: Edward "pilgrim" FitzRandolph's great- and great-great grandfathers; I want to take a look myself because I can'tThat I can't answer. Other members of this group will have a lot more experience here.
Hmm, I'm wondering whether Feet of Fines may help here?
https://lawlibguides.usc.edu/c.php?g=777451&p=5611725%23%3a%7e%3atext%3dFeet+of+Fines+A+fine+was+a+final%2cinstrument+for+the+transfer+of+land+between+freeholders.&msclkid=b2e46ef0b69c11ecab3459f1755ae2fe
Otherwise, have you contacted the record office that provided the abstract? Their staff can be hugely helpful, especially if they'r straight from university and hungry for some resaerch action!!
ChrisChris, will look at Feet of Fines. Meantime, the abbreviated contract material I have is here, below the pedigree:
https://www.google.com/books/edition/Visitations_of_the_County_of_Nottingham/U3KODwAAQBAJ?q=langton+hall,+nott&gbpv=1#f=false
I'm so hoping the full version of contract -- in a College of Arms Vincent mss -- will have enough additional detail to help me with my question. And wasn't sure if foeffments appearing in a marriage contract would result in other documents being
On Thursday, April 7, 2022 at 6:51:12 PM UTC-4, Girl57 wrote:father, re: lands that would come w/bride. What is the role of the enfoeffed men named? What do they get from whom, what is their range of probable relationships with the groom, what do they do...what is their interest in the deal? Thank you. Appreciate
On Thursday, April 7, 2022 at 2:06:04 PM UTC-4, Chris Dickinson wrote:
On Thursday, 7 April 2022 at 17:03:12 UTC+1, Girl57 wrote:
On Thursday, April 7, 2022 at 9:54:33 AM UTC-4, Chris Dickinson wrote:
On Thursday, 7 April 2022 at 14:29:04 UTC+1, Girl57 wrote:
A short version of an early 16th-century marriage contract I'm looking at cites enfoeffment of several people who aren't the groom. I'd been thinking that a marriage contract was primarily an agreement between the groom/couple and the bride's
to which man? Or, might there be separate documents ("deeds," as mentioned on the U of Notts page) pertaining to a transaction with each foeffee? (I'm trying to follow the chain of conveyance of specific lands among specific parties to support theThe University of Nottingham has some good web pages on things like this:
https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/manuscriptsandspecialcollections/researchguidance/deedsindepth/freehold/feoffment.aspx
ChrisChris, you're the best. This is so helpful, and I see there are many more instructive pages at University of Nottingham.
Question: If the short form of the marriage contract I've seen cites the names of several foeffees, could the full version perhaps contain more detail, e.g., specifics of which lands in the generally-cited geographic areas were being granted/sold
created, addressing particulars of each foeffee's land/role, etc. I'm certain that professional genealogists have looked at all this re: Edward "pilgrim" FitzRandolph's great- and great-great grandfathers; I want to take a look myself because I can'tThat I can't answer. Other members of this group will have a lot more experience here.
Hmm, I'm wondering whether Feet of Fines may help here?
https://lawlibguides.usc.edu/c.php?g=777451&p=5611725%23%3a%7e%3atext%3dFeet+of+Fines+A+fine+was+a+final%2cinstrument+for+the+transfer+of+land+between+freeholders.&msclkid=b2e46ef0b69c11ecab3459f1755ae2fe
Otherwise, have you contacted the record office that provided the abstract? Their staff can be hugely helpful, especially if they'r straight from university and hungry for some resaerch action!!
ChrisChris, will look at Feet of Fines. Meantime, the abbreviated contract material I have is here, below the pedigree:
https://www.google.com/books/edition/Visitations_of_the_County_of_Nottingham/U3KODwAAQBAJ?q=langton+hall,+nott&gbpv=1#f=false
I'm so hoping the full version of contract -- in a College of Arms Vincent mss -- will have enough additional detail to help me with my question. And wasn't sure if foeffments appearing in a marriage contract would result in other documents being
Page 187 of Visitations...link above. Fitz-Randolfe pedigree.
On Friday, 8 April 2022 at 03:35:45 UTC+2, Girl57 wrote:s father, re: lands that would come w/bride. What is the role of the enfoeffed men named? What do they get from whom, what is their range of probable relationships with the groom, what do they do...what is their interest in the deal? Thank you.
On Thursday, April 7, 2022 at 6:51:12 PM UTC-4, Girl57 wrote:
On Thursday, April 7, 2022 at 2:06:04 PM UTC-4, Chris Dickinson wrote:
On Thursday, 7 April 2022 at 17:03:12 UTC+1, Girl57 wrote:
On Thursday, April 7, 2022 at 9:54:33 AM UTC-4, Chris Dickinson wrote:
On Thursday, 7 April 2022 at 14:29:04 UTC+1, Girl57 wrote:
A short version of an early 16th-century marriage contract I'm looking at cites enfoeffment of several people who aren't the groom. I'd been thinking that a marriage contract was primarily an agreement between the groom/couple and the bride'
sold to which man? Or, might there be separate documents ("deeds," as mentioned on the U of Notts page) pertaining to a transaction with each foeffee? (I'm trying to follow the chain of conveyance of specific lands among specific parties to support theThe University of Nottingham has some good web pages on things like this:
https://www.nottingham.ac.uk/manuscriptsandspecialcollections/researchguidance/deedsindepth/freehold/feoffment.aspx
ChrisChris, you're the best. This is so helpful, and I see there are many more instructive pages at University of Nottingham.
Question: If the short form of the marriage contract I've seen cites the names of several foeffees, could the full version perhaps contain more detail, e.g., specifics of which lands in the generally-cited geographic areas were being granted/
created, addressing particulars of each foeffee's land/role, etc. I'm certain that professional genealogists have looked at all this re: Edward "pilgrim" FitzRandolph's great- and great-great grandfathers; I want to take a look myself because I can'tThat I can't answer. Other members of this group will have a lot more experience here.
Hmm, I'm wondering whether Feet of Fines may help here?
https://lawlibguides.usc.edu/c.php?g=777451&p=5611725%23%3a%7e%3atext%3dFeet+of+Fines+A+fine+was+a+final%2cinstrument+for+the+transfer+of+land+between+freeholders.&msclkid=b2e46ef0b69c11ecab3459f1755ae2fe
Otherwise, have you contacted the record office that provided the abstract? Their staff can be hugely helpful, especially if they'r straight from university and hungry for some resaerch action!!
ChrisChris, will look at Feet of Fines. Meantime, the abbreviated contract material I have is here, below the pedigree:
https://www.google.com/books/edition/Visitations_of_the_County_of_Nottingham/U3KODwAAQBAJ?q=langton+hall,+nott&gbpv=1#f=false
I'm so hoping the full version of contract -- in a College of Arms Vincent mss -- will have enough additional detail to help me with my question. And wasn't sure if foeffments appearing in a marriage contract would result in other documents being
feoffees who acted as trustees. The terms of the trust might be that the ownership of the land remained with the trustees, but the use of that land was then granted to the couple, with the use then passing to the legitimate male heirs of the couple, andPage 187 of Visitations...link above. Fitz-Randolfe pedigree.A foeffment to uses was fairly common in medieval marraige contracts. Rather than the girl bringing land directly into the marriage from her father, and thus then at the mercy of her husband to dispose of as he wished, it was instead entrusted to
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