Hi Brad,
Thank you for your quick response!
I have been interested in the Courtenay family since I first started posting to SocGenMed. When I toured Powderham Castle a couple years ago, I learned from the guide that Henry V's closest friend was Rt Rev. Richard Courtenay, Bishop of Exeter (c.1380-
1415), and that Bishop Courtenay is buried in the same tomb in the St Edward the Confessor Chapel in Westminster Abbey as Henry V.
Actually, Hockmore spouses Mary Reynell, Honor Hele and Mary Prestwood were descendants of Sir Phillip Courteney of Powderham Castle. The Courteney family is certainly fascinating to study because, among other things, of its genealogical scope. As you
well know, a descendant of Sir Phillip married Catherine of York and whose son was a potential rival dynast to Henry VIII; however, according to Anthony Wagner’s English Genealogy, another female descendant of his married a yeoman, John Moggridge and
when in 1880s “the late Earl of Devon visited Molland, he met a hale old yeoman there named Moggridge. He held out his hand to him; ‘Cousin’ he said ‘jump into the carriage with me, and les us have a drive together; we have not met for one
hundred and eighty years.’”
That’s great that you visited Powderham castle, my own list of castles to see as the result of genealogical research keeps growing! I didn’t know that about Rt.Rev. Richard Courtney, Bishop of Norwich or that that him and Henry V were that close or
that Henry V is sharing his tomb with another person in one of the most prestigious chapels in England. Absolutely fascinating.
I have the first nine generations of the Edward III descent for the Hockmore family which you posted a few weeks ago, down to:
Thank you for reading my post and confirming the first nine generations of Edward III descent to the Hockmore family. I was hoping to hear that, since I was building on (your) previous research and didn’t feel the need to verify those generations,
except for reading Henry Beaufort’s will out of curiosity. As a side note, I think it’s interesting that in the original will he leaves bequests for only three individuals (not counting compensation for the executors): the king, who got a gold cup, a
servant, who got 40 pounds and Jane Stradling who got many various items on top of 100 pounds in gold (the Latin version includes additional things that aren’t mentioned in the translated abstract
https://www.google.ca/books/edition/A_Collection_of_All_
the_Wills_Now_Known/yF8NAAAAIAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PA329&printsec=frontcover). By the way, FYI, I came across your Foundations article being cited in Kathryn Swynford book by Alison Weir (in reference to “It has often been stated that her mother was Eleanor FitzAlan, daughter of the Earl of Arundel, but there is no evidence to
support that claim”).
Also, I am not sure if you came across the fact that Richard Michell’s father murdered his wife and sister-in-law, before taking his own life:
https://www.google.ca/books/edition/Proceedings_in_the_Court_of_the_Star_Cha/FzAsAAAAMAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=
PA218&printsec=frontcover
Should you ever decide to add subsequent Michell/Hockmore generations to your database, the key document for me was Sir Bartholomew Michell’s will in which he helpfully mentions his cousins Edward and Thomas Popham, his nephews Henry and Thomas
Aishford, his son-in-law William Huckmore and his daughter Jane Huckmore (whose parentage is also indicated on William Hockmore’s memorial tablet and his HOP article). Bartholomew Michell is himself mentioned in the wills of Sir John Popham and Thomas
Popham. In addition to proved wills, I was also lucky find a court document confirming the Hockmore lineage that stated that Davidge Gould’s wife and her sisters were “daughters of William Hockmere esq, late of Buckland Baron, Devon, son and heir of
Sir Gregory Hockmere kt deceased, late of Buckland Baron, the son and heir of Gregory Hockmere, esq deceased, late of Buckland Baron” I’d be happy to send you my full research notes should you need them one day.
Rev. J. K. Floyer, M.A., F.S.A., wrote an article, entitled 'Pedigree of the Family of Floyer, 11th to 16th Century; With Evidences and Notes' as a follow-up to the Floyer pedigrees in the Visitation of England and Wales Notes Volume 5 linked above. It
was published in 'Miscellanea Genealogica et Heraldica' 4th Series, Vol. 5 (1914), pp. 303-307, 346-351.
In Note W on p. 351, Rev. Floyer transcribes the 1511 marriage settlement of John Floyer and Joan Carew of Antony mentioned in the 1903 Floyer pedigree in VEW Notes. If transcribed correctly, we have the contemporary early 16th-century evidence that
John Floyer's wife Joan was the daughter of John Carew of Antony House:
"Omnibus Christi fidelibus, etc., Philippa ffloyer vidua nuper uxor Willelmi ffloyer salutem in domino sempiterno Noverint me prefatam Philippa dedisse, etc., Johanni ffloyer filio et heredi apparenti mei et Johanne Carew filie Johannis Carew de
Anthony armigeri quam vero Johannam dictus Johannes ffloyer gracia divina ducet [footnote: Duxit?] in uxorem omen meam terram de Hulkbeare et Wauhall, etc. Tenendum predicto Johanni et Johanne et heredibus de corporibus, etc. Testibus Johanne Moore et
aliis. Dat. 10 die Aprilis Anno R. Regis Henrici 8 2ndo (1511). (B. and P.)"
I'm sorry, I can't easily figure out what exactly Rev. Floyer has abbreviated to "B. and P." But whatever it may stand for, it was his source for the marriage settlement. As his article is extremely well-detailed with copious documentation, I trust
that it was an authentic document, transcribed correctly.
That’s great research, thank you so much Brad! I was wondering about the source for “settlements before marriage dated 10 April 1511” and I think transcription of the original is very strong evidence, especially since chronologically there was only
one John Carew of Anthony House at that time
As per the Hollands of Cowick, HOP has a blog, and in the 2020 post 'The true Queen of the West', Dr. Hannes Kleineke has this to say about the family:
"The earl of Devon’s retainer, Thomas Holland of Cowick, returned at Exeter in November 1449, 1450 and 1455, came from a gentry family that resided not far outside the city, and whose members had long maintained friendly ties among the leading
citizens. Thomas had himself become a freeman of the city in 1445, and by the early 1450s was a regular participant in the annual elections of the civic officers. ... With Attwyll and Danaster out of the picture, the citizens once again turned to their
old friends, the Hollands of Cowick, and elected the city recorder, Thomas Holland’s son Roger, to represent them in the Commons."
https://thehistoryofparliament.wordpress.com/2020/05/05/the-true-queen-of-the-west/
Again, thank you for uncovering this information since it provides a lot more background detail on Thomasine Holland where practically none was available before. Since the Hollands of Cowick were a local gentry family (some of whom participated in Exeter
municipal elections) I would imagine they are not descended from the Earls of Kent line, but potentially from an earlier branch of the Holland family.
I noticed that if you click on Roger Holland’s name link in Sir Wymond Carew’s HOP article, a message pops-up saying “This member's details have not been entered yet.” Hopefully more HOP entries will be added in the future since it sounds like
their research is ongoing.
As always, your help was greatly appreciated.
All the best!
Andrew
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