• Another Sir Peter Carew

    From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 20 10:29:57 2021
    There is a funeral certificate for a
    Robert /Drury/ of Callon, co Roscommon; esq
    "only son of his father"
    d 13 Jan 1673 "in his 63rd year"

    http://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000529291#page/231/mode/1up

    In this it is stated that his paternal grandmother was an Elizabeth Carew "sister of Sir Peter Carew".

    Meanwhile in another part of his tree, he descends from
    Robert /Drury/ of Hedgerley, co Buck and of Chalfont; Knt; Mp; Ho
    second son; born by 1503
    by
    Elizabeth /Brudenell/
    Sole heiress of her father Edmond esq

    Robert Drury's third son
    William /Drury/ , Knt 1570
    was born exactly on 2 Oct 1527

    Edmond Drury of Horton Bucks, called "fourth son"
    then is tentatively given a birth range of 1528/1556
    He married Jeanne Trenchard
    daughter of Thomas /Trenchard/ of Litchett, co Dorset
    by Avis de la /Lynde/

    Their second son
    Robert /Drury/ of Laughlin; esq
    is tentatively given a birth range then of 1547/1575
    He married Elizabeth /Carew/
    I very much doubt she was much older than her husband so a birth range of Elizabeth /Carew/

    Now as to her brother called "Sir Peter Carew"
    I know of two men of this name

    Peter /Carew/ , Knt; W
    born 1511/1513
    third son; heir "aged 33" of his brother George 1545
    d.s.p.; Ross, Waterford, Ireland
    27 Nov 1575

    and this man's first cousin
    Peter /Carew/ , Knt; W
    d 25 Aug 1580
    "killed by the Irish in a skirmish"
    first son of George /Carew/ , Dean of Bristol

    It seems more likely that she would be a sister to this last man
    *however* there is a giant problem
    This last man https://dcms.lds.org/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE98635
    Vis Devon "Carew", page 135
    where he has one only sister Mary
    Mary in her M B states she is an only sister
    and Mary's husband in his M B states she was an only daughter

    So.
    Is there another Sir Peter Carew in the proper time period to be the brother of Elizabeth (Carew) Drury ?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to Will Johnson on Tue Sep 21 09:04:36 2021
    On Tuesday, September 21, 2021 at 9:02:07 AM UTC-7, Will Johnson wrote:
    By the way, this calls the place "Laughlin in Catherlegh"

    I can't find any county of Ireland called Catherlegh

    http://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000529291#page/230/mode/1up

    This expression Robert Drury of Laughlin in Catherleigh is the same one applied to the father of Catherine (Drury) King wife of John /King/ of Boyle Abbey; Knt; W

    and that Thomas /Drury/ of Laughlin, co Catherleigh; esq "only son of his father"

    So I present that Catherine, and Thomas were siblings

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to All on Tue Sep 21 09:02:05 2021
    By the way, this calls the place "Laughlin in Catherlegh"

    I can't find any county of Ireland called Catherlegh

    http://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000529291#page/230/mode/1up

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to All on Tue Sep 21 09:45:53 2021
    Catherleigh (and variant spellings), the Anglicized version of the county now referred to as Carlow

    Here is how King Henry VIII decided to claim it

    https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/85a8f562-048e-47c0-b8f7-a0ed69b22955

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to Will Johnson on Tue Sep 21 09:53:44 2021
    On Tuesday, September 21, 2021 at 9:48:24 AM UTC-7, Will Johnson wrote:
    On Tuesday, September 21, 2021 at 9:45:54 AM UTC-7, Will Johnson wrote:
    Catherleigh (and variant spellings), the Anglicized version of the county now referred to as Carlow

    Here is how King Henry VIII decided to claim it

    https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/85a8f562-048e-47c0-b8f7-a0ed69b22955
    A letter to Sir Peter Carew

    https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/fbebe697-7800-42ec-a9de-663b05aa769d

    We see here a variant spelling of the Barony of Idrone
    Here spelled Hydron

    Also Laughlin
    here spelled Laghlyn

    And of course Sir Gawen Carew mentioned, is his own uncle who d 1583

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to All on Tue Sep 21 09:58:20 2021
    The barony of Idrone was sold to Dudley Bagnall (or perhaps more likely to his father for him)
    And here is how the fool was killed

    https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/2732a8af-1d5a-45e1-a760-ab7c294fab70

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to Will Johnson on Tue Sep 21 09:48:22 2021
    On Tuesday, September 21, 2021 at 9:45:54 AM UTC-7, Will Johnson wrote:
    Catherleigh (and variant spellings), the Anglicized version of the county now referred to as Carlow

    Here is how King Henry VIII decided to claim it

    https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/85a8f562-048e-47c0-b8f7-a0ed69b22955

    A letter to Sir Peter Carew

    https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/fbebe697-7800-42ec-a9de-663b05aa769d

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to All on Tue Sep 21 10:09:16 2021
    Dudley Bagnall died (May 1587) leaving his heir Nicholas,, who was a minor (b 1582)

    So George Carew writes again about this matter of the lands of the barony of Idrone

    https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/0a5bd27e-0b48-49b5-a6a0-356e98f348ca

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to All on Tue Sep 21 10:27:14 2021
    In 1591 Sir George Carew, writes to Sir Henry Bagnall as "My Good Nephew"

    https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/ab137194-4f41-43e0-87a9-36081f98c184

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to All on Tue Sep 21 10:17:33 2021
    I'm going to say that this is still George Carew here just called "Carew" who writes a a perambulation of the English Pale (of Ireland) 1595

    https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/3bfb9b4d-3e4e-49ac-8643-bc584183eaef

    Note in particular

    Sir Edmund Butler, at Cloghgrenan. Warham St. Leger, at Laghlin fort; it is the Queen's. "The barony of Idrone, the ancient inheritance of Sir George Carewe, and by him sold to Dudley Bagnall, St. Leger hath, as guardian to Dudley's son." William Wall,
    Garret McMurtagh Cavenagh, Morgan McBryan Cavenagh, at Poble Tymolin.

    So Warham St Leger was the guardian of the heir Nicholas Bagnall
    I wonder which one this was
    I have two I think could be he

    Warham /St Leger/ ; Knt; Irish privy council; Governor of Leix 1597
    d 4 Mar 1599/1600 Slew and was slain by Hugh Macguire in mutual combat; Cork, Ireland

    and this man's uncle
    Warham /St Leger/ of Ulcombe, co Kent; Knt; Sheriff of Kent 1560; D
    second son; prisoner in Scotland 1550
    d 1597 Cork

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to All on Tue Sep 21 10:48:17 2021
    A more exact date for the death of Dudley Bagnall

    https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/7fe6d233-f615-473c-836e-fe9c8d83a450

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Will Johnson@21:1/5 to Will Johnson on Tue Sep 21 10:37:52 2021
    On Tuesday, September 21, 2021 at 10:27:15 AM UTC-7, Will Johnson wrote:
    In 1591 Sir George Carew, writes to Sir Henry Bagnall as "My Good Nephew"

    https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/ab137194-4f41-43e0-87a9-36081f98c184

    George Carew had married Joyce Clopton
    31 May 1580
    Stratford-on-Avon, Warwickshire, England
    one of two co-heiresses of their father
    the other co-heiresses was Anne Clopton who m her cousin William /Clopton/ of Sledwick in Durham

    The parents of these two girls were
    William /Clopton/ of New Place in Stratford-upon-Avon (sold in 1563); W
    Second but only surviving son of his father
    d 1592
    and his wife
    Anne /Griffith/ d 1594
    daughter of George /Griffith/ of Stockton, co Warw; Knt d 1559

    Meanwhile Sir Henry Bagnal is said to be the son of
    Nicholas /Bagnall/ , Marshall of Ireland 1547-1566; of Newry, Mourne, Carlingford -1553-; of Eskiviok 1565- , Knt < 1567
    by his wife
    Eleanor "Ellen" /Griffith/
    daughter of
    Edward /Griffith/ of Port Penryhn, co Carnarvan

    I wonder if these Griffith families might be mixed up

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)